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MassRafTer posted:You have no clue what you are talking about. WWE saw HHH as a huge star early on. He was never a "Plan C." In the Rock/HHH ladder match WWE saw HIM as the guy who was the breakout star that night not Rock as everyone else saw. He was pretty much the best worker in the world in 2000 and drew big on many occasions without the help of Rock and Austin. He didn't just get a Jesus pop when he returned, he drew a Jesus buyrate. but he gave long promos a lot so 
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Nov 6, 2015 04:44
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triplexpac posted:WCW tried to put the WWF out of business!!!! Half the fun of the Monday Night Wars documentaries is seeing how they frame WWE doing something compared to WCW doing something sorta similar. If I remember right, at one point they briefly go over the Black Saturday incident as a this minor thing that totally wasn't a way to muscle out NWA programming for their own stuff, but then later have McMahon complain about how WCW Monday Nitro could've been aired at any other time other than opposite of Raw and that doing so was Ted Turner being a big bully.
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Nov 6, 2015 06:02
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I wonder if HHH gets over the same way if he keeps using the cutter.
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Nov 6, 2015 06:17
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CAT rear end now!!! posted:So what are some instances where WWE had to rethink their main event plans in a hurry due to an injury or something and pulled it off well, possibly even better than what the original plan would've been? Really curious to see what they come up with now that Seth is dead. There was a situation where Cena was going to defend the belt against Orton at a PPV, but days before it, he tore something in a match against Ken Kennedy and they had to play it up that Orton beat Cena up so bad that Cena had to vacate the title. Then they did a thing where Orton was awarded the belt, immediately lost to Triple H, Triple H was forced to defend it against Umaga later that night, won, and they did an impromptu rematch against Orton in a Last Man Standing which Orton won. This led to Cena's surprise Rumble win months later. Speaking of Kennedy, a couple injuries spared us from him. He won Money in the Bank and outright said he was going to cash it in at Wrestlemania. He got an injury that seemed severe enough at the time, so they had him defend the briefcase against Edge and lose. Very soon after, Undertaker (who was champ World Heavyweight Champion) got injured and they decided to have Edge cash in and beat him. Kennedy's situation wasn't as dire as they initially expected and he was back a lot sooner. We dodged a bullet there.
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Nov 6, 2015 06:45
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Monkeycheese posted:but he gave long promos a lot so Yes he did but that got bad later. Triple H pre injury was great, it was after when everything fell apart
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Nov 6, 2015 08:24
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Gavok posted:There was a situation where Cena was going to defend the belt against Orton at a PPV, but days before it, he tore something in a match against Ken Kennedy and they had to play it up that Orton beat Cena up so bad that Cena had to vacate the title. Then they did a thing where Orton was awarded the belt, immediately lost to Triple H, Triple H was forced to defend it against Umaga later that night, won, and they did an impromptu rematch against Orton in a Last Man Standing which Orton won. I vividly remember hating No Mercy '07 because the whole PPV's booking made no sense and all the title bullshit cut the undercard matches short. It seemed stupid to award it to Orton and lose immediately if he was just going to win it back later anyway, and involve Triple H for no reason despite being already booked. There were so many other options for what to do with so many other people who weren't booked that night. It also had the Punjabi Prison match which took a full minute to explain the rules and required commentary hand-holding the whole time (which Khali lost for literally climbing too slow), a Women's title match that didn't even go 5 minutes, Finlay/Rey with a no-contest worked injury, and Punk's PPV title defense for ECW was a 1 minute DQ with Big Daddy V. Then to fill time Matt Hardy and MVP had a pizza eating contest where Matt threw up on MVP. It's one of my least favorite PPVs ever.
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Nov 6, 2015 08:34
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MassRafTer posted:You have no clue what you are talking about. WWE saw HHH as a huge star early on. He was never a "Plan C." In the Rock/HHH ladder match WWE saw HIM as the guy who was the breakout star that night not Rock as everyone else saw. He was pretty much the best worker in the world in 2000 and drew big on many occasions without the help of Rock and Austin. Triple H was very much distinctly behind guys like Austin around that time period. I don't give a poo poo what management thought -- they had stars in their eyes for Bobby Lashley, too. Who gives a poo poo? He never hit the same 'huge star' levels as Rock or Austin (I'm talking widespread, mass appeal outside of wrestling audiences) but they try to consistently portray him as such. Where exactly is the fault? Who was he working with in 2000? That entire 'god year' had him in significant feuds with guys like Jericho, Rock, Angle and Foley. Has he managed to get a good or memorable match out of guys who are the drizzling shits, ever? I've never seen him as someone who can carry a match like Bret or Shawn can. Not saying he is a shite wrestler. He's just not the King of Kings Asskicker Cerebral Assassin Game that WWE portrays him as. quote:He didn't just get a Jesus pop when he returned, he drew a Jesus buyrate. At the Royal Rumble. Commonly thought to be one of the "Big" PPVs for WWE, and only a 50k increase year over year. If you look at Rumble numbers from 2001-2004 they're all significantly higher than pretty much every other PPV besides Wrestlemania and SummerSlam. Survivor Series tends to flucuate. Was Triple H's return so awe-inspiring that it popped numbers for the next 10 years? Headlining Wrestlemania saw a 20% dropoff from YOY. So, yeah, big loving draw. Triple H is a fine wrestler and an okay promo. He was never on the same level as guys like Austin or Rock during the Attitude Era, but modern day WWE tries to make him out to be. Marquis de Pyro posted:HHH is like John Cena. He's a very good wrestler but his ever present push and long tenure make people underrate him Cena is actually a really good point of comparison with Triple H, because it underscores what I mean about Triple H being the beneficiary of really solid opponents. Cena was able to drag a watchable match out of Khali. Yeah, he's overexposed, but he's a hell of a wrestler. quote:well that and the whole booking himself in hilarious fashion part 
Perdido fucked around with this message at 09:37 on Nov 6, 2015 |
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Nov 6, 2015 09:31
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triplexpac posted:WCW tried to put the WWF out of business!!!! And now there's Alberto Del Rio, who they signed away.
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Nov 6, 2015 09:50
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MassRafTer posted:You have no clue what you are talking about. WWE saw HHH as a huge star early on. He was never a "Plan C." In the Rock/HHH ladder match WWE saw HIM as the guy who was the breakout star that night not Rock as everyone else saw. He was pretty much the best worker in the world in 2000 and drew big on many occasions without the help of Rock and Austin. He didn't just get a Jesus pop when he returned, he drew a Jesus buyrate.
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Nov 6, 2015 10:36
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The only thing that gets me more hard than paper-thin guesstimates of statistical drawing significance is linear championship talk. Who's got the linear championship right now
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Nov 6, 2015 10:41
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Madusa stole it back in 1995, hasn't been seen since.
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Nov 6, 2015 10:48
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Basic Chunnel posted:The only thing that gets me more hard than paper-thin guesstimates of statistical drawing significance is linear championship talk. ADR, who sadly won't bring it to AAA
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Nov 6, 2015 12:26
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Gavok posted:There was a situation where Cena was going to defend the belt against Orton at a PPV, but days before it, he tore something in a match against Ken Kennedy and they had to play it up that Orton beat Cena up so bad that Cena had to vacate the title. Then they did a thing where Orton was awarded the belt, immediately lost to Triple H, Triple H was forced to defend it against Umaga later that night, won, and they did an impromptu rematch against Orton in a Last Man Standing which Orton won. No Mercy '07. Cena was not only injured on the go-home show, it was during the main event. They advertised and sold the show on there being a Orton/Cena LMS match, and it was an attempt to make good with the fans who had ordered expecting that.
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Nov 6, 2015 12:50
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Perdido posted:Triple H was very much distinctly behind guys like Austin around that time period. I don't give a poo poo what management thought -- they had stars in their eyes for Bobby Lashley, too. Who gives a poo poo? He never hit the same 'huge star' levels as Rock or Austin (I'm talking widespread, mass appeal outside of wrestling audiences) but they try to consistently portray him as such. Where exactly is the fault? That Royal Rumble was pulled off of Directv. Buys increased despite the fact it was in fewer homes. It was an incredible number. So basically he was Plan C, except now plan C means something else other than Plan C and he's never been able to carry anyone, bluh bluh bluh I just hate him. I love Batista, he turned into an above average worker but in 2005 he wasn't very good at all and HHH carried him to a MOTYC HiaC. Yes, he worked with a lot of good workers in 2000, in the end he was seen as the guy who was the best that year. Everyone raved about him. He was better than those guys that year.
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Nov 6, 2015 13:52
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Triple H got a great TV match out of the Brooklyn Brawler. As MRT said, he also molded Batista into a star in the ring. You can dislike him for marrying up all you want (despite him being in a high position before dating Stephanie), but to claim that he is a horrible promo and mediocre worker is just absurd. Go watch WM 30 and try to convince yourself that it isn't Triple H calling the match and controlling the pace.
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Nov 6, 2015 14:13
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Yeah it's fine if people don't like HHH, hate him for his politics, hate his ill-defined face/heel shenanigans of late, etc, etc. That's all totally fine. Triple H has a lot of bad qualities and has many times politicked things for the worse, and no one's denying any of that. I stopped watching somewhere in the early 00s, partially because of his long rear end loving promos. What's inarguable is he was at a time considered the best, or close to the best, wrestler in the world, he had some great feuds and storylines that drew money, and even far past his peak, he's maintained a near-elite level as a worker. Even today, he's one of the best in the WWE - when he actually wrestles, of course. And if he's only going to wrestle once or twice a year, lord knows that's going to enhance the match, due to it being "special" that he's wrestling, but it's also kind of amazing there appears to be no ring rust every time he comes back. And yes, he made Batista. What Batista became in the ring was not what he was when the two of them were feuding. And you look at the stuff of late, at the Mania match with Bryan, and yeah it's Bryan, but a lot of people considered that Bryan's best match that year. And then there's the Shield/Evolution matches, which were amazing. Hell, the Sting match, smoke and mirrors and all, was a hell of a lot of fun. I'm not even a fan of Triple H, not by a longshot, but he's a hell of a wrestler.
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Nov 6, 2015 14:20
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HHH was/is a great wrestler but his terrible run in 02-03 where RAW was the HHH show and numerous times over the years when he came out on top or looking better than his opponent when it made not much sense can easily sour people's opinions.
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Nov 6, 2015 14:24
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HHH's problem is that people compare him to Austin and Rock which isn't really fair because pretty much any wrestler is going to look worse compared to those two. If you were going to make a Mt. Rushmore of WWE wrestlers, he wouldn't be on it, but he'd probably be what, the fifth or sixth guy in the running?
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Nov 6, 2015 14:27
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Seams posted:HHH's problem is that people compare him to Austin and Rock which isn't really fair because pretty much any wrestler is going to look worse compared to those two. If you were going to make a Mt. Rushmore of WWE wrestlers, he wouldn't be on it, but he'd probably be what, the fifth or sixth guy in the running? Depends on your criteria. WWE as in when the company got named WWE, or Attitude Era on, or Mania I on, or WWWF on, or some other criteria?
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Nov 6, 2015 14:38
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Seams posted:HHH's problem is that people compare him to Austin and Rock which isn't really fair because pretty much any wrestler is going to look worse compared to those two. If you were going to make a Mt. Rushmore of WWE wrestlers, he wouldn't be on it, but he'd probably be what, the fifth or sixth guy in the running? he's not top 5, there's a case for top 10
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Nov 6, 2015 14:39
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HHH is good at times but also the worst.
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Nov 6, 2015 14:49
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Is it that he maintains such an image because of his strong ring presence, or is it because he's been politicking from day loving one and been able to make himself look that way?
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Nov 6, 2015 14:56
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Strenuous Manflurry posted:Depends on your criteria. WWE as in when the company got named WWE, or Attitude Era on, or Mania I on, or WWWF on, or some other criteria? Since the creation of the WWWF for simplcity's sake I guess.
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Nov 6, 2015 15:04
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It's telling that HHH got Meltzer's wrestler of the year award in 2000, even considering that Misawa, Kobashi, and a bunch of other guys were nursing injuries and/or making the transition to NOAH.Seams posted:Since the creation of the WWWF for simplcity's sake I guess. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Nov 6, 2015 |
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Nov 6, 2015 15:10
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It would have to be Sammartino, Hogan, Austin, and Cena, yes?
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Nov 6, 2015 15:11
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I don't like triple h because he was racist to Booker T and was supposed to be right
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Nov 6, 2015 15:13
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projecthalaxy posted:It would have to be Sammartino, Hogan, Austin, and Cena, yes? That'd be my pick. Alaois posted:I don't like triple h because he was racist to Booker T and was supposed to be right I liked him because he hosed a corpse
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Nov 6, 2015 15:14
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Who would be on the WWE Mt Rushmore? Hogan/Austin/Rock/Cena? Hogan/Bret/Austin/Cena? HHH/HHH/HHH/HHH?
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Nov 6, 2015 15:19
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Vince McMahon/stephanie McMahon/Triple H/Hornswoggle
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Nov 6, 2015 15:34
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Big Daddy/Big Daddy V/Big Daddy Yum Yum/Sting.
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Nov 6, 2015 15:37
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John Quixote posted:Is it that he maintains such an image because of his strong ring presence, or is it because he's been politicking from day loving one and been able to make himself look that way? Does it matter?
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Nov 6, 2015 15:40
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BodyMassageMachine posted:HHH/HHH/HHH/HHH?
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Nov 6, 2015 15:50
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Did he ACTUALLY ever go by the name THE rear end KICKER?
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Nov 6, 2015 17:12
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ICHIBAHN posted:Did he ACTUALLY ever go by the name THE rear end KICKER? Recently, he came to the ring and insisted people called him that so technically yes.
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Nov 6, 2015 17:30
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Isn't he also in a position to be one of the bugs in Cole or JR's ear to get the announcers to call him that?
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Nov 6, 2015 19:11
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My favorite thing in my recent attitude era ppv watch session is a backstage promo when triple h was transitioning into his cerebral asskicker persona and he goes "I call myself the Gameeverybodycallsmethegame!"
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Nov 6, 2015 19:12
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My favourite HHH moment was when Bret told us the H stands for Homo
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Nov 6, 2015 19:16
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Strenuous Manflurry posted:And you look at the stuff of late, at the Mania match with Bryan, and yeah it's Bryan, but a lot of people considered that Bryan's best match that year. Bryan was out for half that year and had only one other big match. That other big match was pretty good, but saying HHH was in Daniel Bryan's Best Match Of 2014 is not exactly drawing from a deep pool.
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Nov 6, 2015 19:49
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his best match that year was vs. kane because it had hot forklift action
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Nov 6, 2015 19:56
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I Before E posted:Bryan was out for half that year and had only one other big match. That other big match was pretty good, but saying HHH was in Daniel Bryan's Best Match Of 2014 is not exactly drawing from a deep pool. I look at a year in WWE's terms as Mania-Mania, but that's fair. Remember though, his Rumble match against Bray loving ruled, and he had several matches against Randy Orton on free TV that were all excellent. Probably some others that I'm forgetting, too, but in 2014 alone, Bryan had more than 2 great matches. The Triple H match might have been his best, in my humble opinion, though it's an ancillary point either way.
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Nov 6, 2015 19:59
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