Star Citizen: Big MoMA's House

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Cao Ni Ma: May 25, 2010

Yeah, development proper of TES3 came much later than 1996. And even then they spent a massive amount of time working on creating the toolset for modding first, and then built the game using the same tools.

In typical CIG rear end backwards fashion, they've decided to build the game first and then make the tools for modding. Anyone can tell you this wont work but "dreams"

# ? Feb 5, 2016 14:16

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# ? Jun 13, 2024 01:59

Truga: May 4, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

Cao Ni Ma posted:

In typical CIG rear end backwards fashion, they've decided to build the game first and then make the tools for modding. Anyone can tell you this wont work but "dreams"

Actually, you just don't understand Game Development

# ? Feb 5, 2016 14:19

darkarchon: Feb 2, 2016; My name is a trolling word

Cao Ni Ma posted:

Yeah, development proper of TES3 came much later than 1996. And even then they spent a massive amount of time working on creating the toolset for modding first, and then built the game using the same tools.

In typical CIG rear end backwards fashion, they've decided to build the game first and then make the tools for modding. Anyone can tell you this wont work but "dreams"

U wot m8. They decided to build all assets first and then make the game and then the tools for modding. Because that's how game development works. Obviously you have never developed a successful game.

# ? Feb 5, 2016 14:19

Tijuana Bibliophile: Dec 30, 2008; Scratchmo

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

And Morrowind released in 2002, they'd have to be counting the development time on the expansions to reach 2004 and it would still be wrong, because they were both released in 2003.

e: Ahaha, development didn't even start until 1999, it was just conceived of in '96. So rather than the eight years they claim, it was only 3!

I see people confused about this all the time so lemme explain Citizen arithmetic:

Select game
Determine which came first: public announcement or release of previous game in same series.
Calculate time from that date until release, then add about half a year to number.
If calculated time is less than six years, skip this and try with another game

For Star Citizen on the other hand, arithmetic is like this:

How long since they opened their last studio and/or claimed said studio began working
If above time is long, make up shorter time

# ? Feb 5, 2016 14:26

Tijuana Bibliophile: Dec 30, 2008; Scratchmo

Cao Ni Ma posted:

Yeah, development proper of TES3 came much later than 1996. And even then they spent a massive amount of time working on creating the toolset for modding first, and then built the game using the same tools.

In typical CIG rear end backwards fashion, they've decided to build the game first and then make the tools for modding. Anyone can tell you this wont work but "dreams"

What, engine development doesn't count as game development? lol

StarEngine was developed from scratch in 2014 pretty good pace imo

# ? Feb 5, 2016 14:29

Tijuana Bibliophile: Dec 30, 2008; Scratchmo

The greatest Citizen was that dude that claimed procedural generation of planets and stuff would be really, really easy, like click checkbox easy

# ? Feb 5, 2016 14:31

Samizdata: May 14, 2007

Phi230 posted:

Tie credit card to game to purchase space cola with real money, to support development.

QUESTION: Will the real money vending machines offer space Code Red?

# ? Feb 5, 2016 14:34

Samizdata: May 14, 2007

# ? Feb 5, 2016 14:36

darkarchon: Feb 2, 2016; My name is a trolling word

Tijuana Bibliophile posted:

The greatest Citizen was that dude that claimed procedural generation of planets and stuff would be really, really easy, like click checkbox easy

Well Elite Dangerous did it and it's a poo poo game making everything easy so it must be easy it's just like that. SC is superior and way more complex and deep than any of this poo poo.

# ? Feb 5, 2016 14:36

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK: Sep 11, 2001

Tijuana Bibliophile posted:

The greatest Citizen was that dude that claimed procedural generation of planets and stuff would be really, really easy, like click checkbox easy

dont forget to click the "crysis level fidelity" box too

# ? Feb 5, 2016 14:37

Daztek: Jun 2, 2006

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

dont forget to click the "crysis level fidelity" box too

+ birds

# ? Feb 5, 2016 14:38

sunaurus: Feb 13, 2012; Oh great, another bookah.

Tijuana Bibliophile posted:

I see people confused about this all the time so lemme explain Citizen arithmetic:

Select game

Determine which came first: public announcement or release of previous game in same series.

Calculate time from that date until release, then add about half a year to number.

If calculated time is less than six years, skip this and try with another game

For Star Citizen on the other hand, arithmetic is like this:

How long since they opened their last studio and/or claimed said studio began working

If above time is long, make up shorter time

This is completely accurate.

I can kind of understand these people, too. They know the game is already 2 years behind schedule. They need justifications for this, and this kind of arithmetic is the best way to justify statements like "I would be okay with a 2020 release date because that's how development works". Even though a 2020 release would mean the game is 6 years late.

# ? Feb 5, 2016 14:42

Beet Wagon: Oct 19, 2015

A Neurotic Jew posted:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/449c5h/i_am_extremely_excited_to_be_able_to_purchase/

"beerlovers"

Well I mean I do really like beer. It's delicious.

# ? Feb 5, 2016 14:44

Samizdata: May 14, 2007

drat Dirty Ape posted:

Hopefully when the introduce clothes they also add space fedoras. That alone could get them to 150 million.

They can't get any animation right. You want them to gently caress up the classic tip mocap?

# ? Feb 5, 2016 14:49

Beet Wagon: Oct 19, 2015

Man, on the one hand by not being here last night I missed a bunch of stuff in the thread, but on the other hand I got to go with my friends to look at a car in some shitholy fly-by-night scam dealership. It was like Star Citizen: The Ride.

# ? Feb 5, 2016 14:51

Daztek: Jun 2, 2006

This week's ATV has left me largely unsettled

-70 points, this guy is a hero

# ? Feb 5, 2016 14:54

Beer4TheBeerGod: Aug 23, 2004; Exciting Lemon

Cao Ni Ma posted:

Yeah, development proper of TES3 came much later than 1996. And even then they spent a massive amount of time working on creating the toolset for modding first, and then built the game using the same tools.

In typical CIG rear end backwards fashion, they've decided to build the game first and then make the tools for modding. Anyone can tell you this wont work but "dreams"

How about the fact that they won't even begin to figure out how to incorporate private servers until the game is done and live. I am not an expert but that doesn't seem like the kind of thing you can slap on to the end of development.

# ? Feb 5, 2016 14:58

darkarchon: Feb 2, 2016; My name is a trolling word

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

How about the fact that they won't even begin to figure out how to incorporate private servers until the game is done and live. I am not an expert but that doesn't seem like the kind of thing you can slap on to the end of development.

It's fairly easy, while they planned to tack on private servers, this obviously won't ever happen and we won't see that in the end - if we see anything at all.

BUT they have to keep the backers hopeful, because hope is the thing they build on and why people actually spend money for this project. Hope is their foundation.

# ? Feb 5, 2016 14:59

Tippis: Mar 21, 2008; It's yet another day in the wasteland.

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

And Morrowind released in 2002, they'd have to be counting the development time on the expansions to reach 2004 and it would still be wrong, because they were both released in 2003.

e: Ahaha, development didn't even start until 1999, it was just conceived of in '96. So rather than the eight years they claim, it was only 3!

There's also the question of what actual sources they use for those years. It says �Wikipedia� in the lower right, but almost none of them even remotely correspond to what Wikipedia actually says. Nowhere on the SWToR page does 2006 appear. The SWToR wikia says 2005�

Of course, if you pick the numbers quoted in wikipedia, it doesn't look as good any more:

# ? Feb 5, 2016 15:00

Samizdata: May 14, 2007

FrankieGoes posted:

I don't know about the rest of it, but the penectomy and razor into the old ovaries are a direct and accurate quote, because they're seared into my brain.

But you forgot about the restaurants where Star Citizens get limbs cut off, ground up, and fed back to them. And where losing SATAball teams get ground up after the game.

And then there's the whole Sandi bit...

# ? Feb 5, 2016 15:10

darkarchon: Feb 2, 2016; My name is a trolling word

quote:

Hi rootdarkarchon,

Thank you very much for your reply.

I am very sorry you felt the need to perform a chargeback, however chargebacks should only ever be used for cases of genuine fraud, where you have had no recollection of making the payment yourself. Using a chargeback as a means to gain a refund is a misuse of the system, and damages both us, and your own ability to use the payment provider in the future. Unfortunately if you decide to do this, I will have to take a note of this down to provide the information to Paypal.

I apologise that we cannot offer you a refund, however as stated by my colleagues before you are outside of the 14 day grace period and are not eligible for one. If you require any further assistance please let us know, thanks.

Best Regards

Amy
Billing Support Representative
Cloud Imperium Games

So SA, see this, what do?

# ? Feb 5, 2016 15:13

Beer4TheBeerGod: Aug 23, 2004; Exciting Lemon

darkarchon posted:

It's fairly easy, while they planned to tack on private servers, this obviously won't ever happen and we won't see that in the end - if we see anything at all.

BUT they have to keep the backers hopeful, because hope is the thing they build on and why people actually spend money for this project. Hope is their foundation.

How is it fairly easy? I mean if that was the case wouldn't Frontier have already done it?

# ? Feb 5, 2016 15:13

Beet Wagon: Oct 19, 2015

darkarchon posted:

So SA, see this, what do?

Chargeback. Those fuckers aren't your bank, they don't get to make the call about what's a valid reason and what isn't.

# ? Feb 5, 2016 15:14

darkarchon: Feb 2, 2016; My name is a trolling word

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

How is it fairly easy? I mean if that was the case wouldn't Frontier have already done it?

It's fairly easy that they keep silent on this until the bitter end, I mean. It's not easy to implement, that's a huge bitch.

Beet Wagon posted:

Chargeback. Those fuckers aren't your bank, they don't get to make the call about what's a valid reason and what isn't.

Well it's paypal, getting kicked off Paypal wouldn't be very good, though.

# ? Feb 5, 2016 15:15

Colostomy Bag: Jan 11, 2016; C-Bangin' it

I have to say, from loving over a backer who got screwed, discussing an amorphous development schedule, a crazy rear end 10ftc...to releasing a space jpeg dealership, this week ranks up there in entertainment and will be hard to beat. And hell, we haven't had RtV yet.

# ? Feb 5, 2016 15:15

Cao Ni Ma: May 25, 2010

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

How about the fact that they won't even begin to figure out how to incorporate private servers until the game is done and live. I am not an expert but that doesn't seem like the kind of thing you can slap on to the end of development.

The answer is pretty simple. Modding/ Private Servers/ Etc will be the "last" thing they look at after everything else is done. Now as development for everything else will approach infinity, they will never reach the point where they'll have to worry about those things.

# ? Feb 5, 2016 15:15

Beet Wagon: Oct 19, 2015

darkarchon posted:

It's fairly easy that they keep silent on this until the bitter end, I mean. It's not easy to implement, that's a huge bitch.

Well it's paypal, getting kicked off Paypal wouldn't be very good, though.

Hmm... maybe try voodoo and various other dark magicks?

# ? Feb 5, 2016 15:19

Xaerael: Aug 25, 2010; Marching Powder is objectively the worst poster known. He also needs to learn how a keyboard works.

darkarchon posted:

So SA, see this, what do?

Link them this:

https://support.worldpay.com/support/kb/bg/disputemanagement/dp5404.htm

And cite "Merchandise/service not as described" and "Defective merchandise" being your reasons for chargeback, depending on whether they choose the game is or isn't substantially released.

They either have to admit the game is not substantially release, or the game is released, broken, and not fit for purpose.

Result for you, Win/Win.

Saying chargebacks are only for fraud is patently untrue, and probably perfect ammo for court cases.

Xaerael fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Feb 5, 2016

# ? Feb 5, 2016 15:19

Tortolia: Dec 29, 2005; Hindustan Electronics Employee of the Month, July 2008; Grimey Drawer

Haha form responses towards chargebacks. They are so full of poo poo

# ? Feb 5, 2016 15:19

Geguri Gegogi: Oct 13, 2010

hakimashou posted:

Hello I saw your post and realized i had taken a picture a while ago to post in GWS.

Yuck, this is an insult to Korean food. Why is all your banchan on one plate? Also, what are you doing with gochujjang on the side? Dipping things in it? Double yuck.

Get thee some ssamjjang instead.

Also, odeng, is literally fish bologna. I still like it though.

# ? Feb 5, 2016 15:20

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK: Sep 11, 2001

darkarchon posted:

So SA, see this, what do?

do the chargeback

Tortolia posted:

Haha form responses towards chargebacks. They are so full of poo poo

# ? Feb 5, 2016 15:22

KM Scorchio: Feb 13, 2008; "If you don't find rape hilarious, you're a sensitive crybaby."

The most infinite development process in the history of gaming.

# ? Feb 5, 2016 15:23

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

Geguri Gegogi posted:

Yuck, this is an insult to Korean food. Why is all your banchan on one plate? Also, what are you doing with gochujjang on the side? Dipping things in it? Double yuck.

Get thee some ssamjjang instead.

Also, odeng, is literally fish bologna. I still like it though.

put ketchup on and stick it on some bread imo

# ? Feb 5, 2016 15:23

Agrajag: Jan 21, 2006; gat dang thats hot

darkarchon posted:

It's fairly easy that they keep silent on this until the bitter end, I mean. It's not easy to implement, that's a huge bitch.

Well it's paypal, getting kicked off Paypal wouldn't be very good, though.

chargeback, you wont get kicked off paypal just make sure to explain the whole situation clearly and preferably with documentation or whatever. also, their email is absolutely full of lies.

quote:

I am very sorry you felt the need to perform a chargeback, however chargebacks should only ever be used for cases of genuine fraud, where you have had no recollection of making the payment yourself. Using a chargeback as a means to gain a refund is a misuse of the system, and damages both us, and your own ability to use the payment provider in the future

jesus this is loving reprehensible. i feel sorry for fools who won't know better when they get this response.

Agrajag fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Feb 5, 2016

# ? Feb 5, 2016 15:23

MeLKoR: Dec 23, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

darkarchon posted:

So SA, see this, what do?

"I live in the EU, give me my loving money."

# ? Feb 5, 2016 15:23

KM Scorchio: Feb 13, 2008; "If you don't find rape hilarious, you're a sensitive crybaby."

They aren't going to report poo poo to PayPal.

# ? Feb 5, 2016 15:24

Xaerael: Aug 25, 2010; Marching Powder is objectively the worst poster known. He also needs to learn how a keyboard works.

That response has me pretty angry right now. They're lying through their teeth and breaking consumer laws doing so to protect their dwindling cash reserves.

Company will massively downsize/fold within the next 12 months, and that's only if they survive legal action.

# ? Feb 5, 2016 15:26

darkarchon: Feb 2, 2016; My name is a trolling word

quote:

Hello Amy,

see I don't want to do a chargeback, you don't really leave me any other options. I don't understand why you won't refund me.

There are literally hundreds of people, many who invested way more than me, who actually got their refunds - many of those bought in in the period I did as well. Chris' himself stated that everyone who is not happy with the project can receive a refund. So you're rowing back on that, yes?

https://support.worldpay.com/support/kb/bg/disputemanagement/dp5404.htm
"Merchandise/service not as described" and "Defective merchandise" - this fits this project pretty accurately. When you're telling me that 2.x is a substantial release of what is to come, I have to say, it's pretty broken and not at all what I - and many others - was/were promised by Mr. Roberts. So in the case of that is a substantial release, I can issue a chargeback, in the case it isn't the reasons you cited in the most generic denial mail ever are void.

Under EU regulations as well I can receive my money back 14 days after I received the final product. Given that there is no final product, and none in sight, I see myself in the right here. Maybe I should give the "Verbraucherschutz" in Germany a call as well and ask for their assistance in this case.

That good, yes?

darkarchon fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Feb 5, 2016

# ? Feb 5, 2016 15:27

Cao Ni Ma: May 25, 2010

KM Scorchio posted:

The most infinite development process in the history of gaming.

The guys at frontier straight up and said "This will be a 10 year project" and their scope is still a fraction of what CIG is coming up for their game. CIG hasnt even release EP1 of SQ42 and there are supposed to be 5! There is no part of the project as it is right now that you can look and go "This is complete" because even the ships are constantly being reworked when they figure out something hosed up in their flight system.

# ? Feb 5, 2016 15:27

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# ? Jun 13, 2024 01:59

Eldragon: Feb 22, 2003

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

How is it fairly easy? I mean if that was the case wouldn't Frontier have already done it?

CIG isn't going to do it for the exact same reason Frontier didn't do it, and it has nothing to do with difficulty of deployment: Money. Private servers eat into the cash shop revenues.

Eventually CIG will announce private servers aren't going to happen, instead CIG is going to be working on some <NEW FEATURE> instead, and the "Citizens" will thank chris for it.

# ? Feb 5, 2016 15:28

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