|
Mr Dog posted:most interpreted langauges can probably do this but you'd have to migrate any altered data structures as well. a neat parlor trick, but complex systems are designed around a bunch of loosely coupled redundant bits that can crash and restart easily (the other thing google invented apart from pagerank) as opposed to some monolithic thing that will never crash ever and have uptimes of a millenium (mainframe poo poo) i've seen people do that with C, and erlang (1986) predates google (1998)
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2015 13:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 03:38 |
|
|
Suspicious Dish posted:i don't see how any of that is related to lisp it's not related to lisp. the lispiness of the lisp machines is not what made them special. they were complete, tightly integrated environments built ground-up with the explicit goal of making software developers more capable nobody had done that before nobody has really done it since
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2015 15:51
|
|
|
Cocoa Crispies posted:i've seen people do that with C, and erlang (1986) predates google (1998) well, "popularized outside of telecom" i should say. large-scale web application architecture became very different post-Google compared to the situation ante-Google.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2015 15:54
|
|
|
Mr Dog posted:most interpreted langauges can probably do this but you'd have to migrate any altered data structures as well. a neat parlor trick, but complex systems are designed around a bunch of loosely coupled redundant bits that can crash and restart easily (the other thing google invented apart from pagerank) as opposed to some monolithic thing that will never crash ever and have uptimes of a millenium (mainframe poo poo) the parlor trick is useful during development. if you notice an off by one error in your own code. rewind, fix var, restart execution without waiting for a recompile or trying to recreate program state Mr Dog posted:nothing about this requires lisp, and many modern application development languages have a standardised source code documentation system too (e.g. JavaDocs, whatever C#'s poo poo is called, Python's docstrings, even Doxygen for C and for C++) Mr Dog posted:the environment that governs best is the environment that governs least. there's a bunch of conventions for how poo poo should probably fit together on modern unix systems but for the most part you can swap bits out easily depending on your needs. loose coupling is a good thing, freedom of development tools is also good. i'd have to have to script poo poo in LISP or write intricate numeric kernels or whatever. this was a major weakness of the platform that led to its demise other languages inhabited the symbolics environment. i seem to recall c and fortran. but they didn't have all the whizbang integrations of the native lisp setup, defeating the purpose of spending so much money on a symbolics box
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2015 16:26
|
|
|
Notorious b.s.d. posted:now imagine having all your man pages and hardware docs in the same format You can't honestly believe this poo poo. Even at the time, you'd get slapped with a physical manual for documentation instead of hypermedia.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2015 19:46
|
|
|
There are a lot more recent high profile AAA games on Linux than I expected http://store.steampowered.com/sale/steamos_sale?snr=1_4_4__118 
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 00:02
|
|
|
Cardboard Box A posted:There are a lot more recent high profile AAA games on Linux than I expected Yeah, the steambox may actually take off as a cheap way to stream to a tv. If/when it does people are going to want to run some things locally. Add that to valve creating a way to package all of your dependencies in an independent way and people actually want to port. If you haven't tried in home streaming - it works pretty well. I use it as an in home remote desktop client. At one point my desktop was tucked in a closet and I could WoL it when I wanted to play a game or some poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 00:33
|
|
|
Spent all day getting lxqt to build because PPAs always gently caress up my system somehow. I've seen the future and it isn't pretty. I also see the beauty of keeping things as close to upstream as possible. I had a set of five patches I wanted to apply to the ubonto version of a package. One of the patches a maintainer applied wasn't so much a tweak as it was a major rewrite of two c modules. So that was fun. Which distros don't ship a lot of patches?
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 00:39
|
|
|
rhel
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 00:50
|
|
|
Fedora and Arch
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 00:56
|
|
|
pram posted:rhel Hmm. I'd heard ubuntu was bad, but I had never had it bite me in the rear end like this. I don't even see how they can use the same version number with a straight face.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 00:58
|
|
|
Cardboard Box A posted:There are a lot more recent high profile AAA games on Linux than I expected once again closed source development does what open sores don't
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 01:11
|
|
|
Forums Terrorist posted:once again closed source development does what open sores don't Don;'t you know gaming was perfected with nethack, and online gamine was perfect after diku mud. oh sweet, torchlight II is actually out. SYSV Fanfic fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Mar 5, 2015 |
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 01:12
|
|
|
People really don't get that compiling your entire system from scratch only made sense when you had a k7 or p4 and everything was compiled for a 386.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 01:31
|
|
|
SYSV Fanfic posted:People really don't get that compiling your entire system from scratch only made sense when you had a k7 or p4 and everything was compiled for a 386. it didn't even make sense then
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 01:46
|
|
|
SYSV Fanfic posted:Hmm. Ubuntu changes are usually evident with the package having a ~ubuntux.y in the file name. The changes may come from Debian.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 01:52
|
|
|
So tearing in torchlight II linux is pretty bad. Dunno what I was expecting. On a lolz note, the linux driver that came with that $6 ralink dual band works better than the windows one. Notorious b.s.d. posted:it didn't even make sense then Maybe I don't understand how it works. Does compiling for 386 still allow you to use extensions like MMX without inlining assembly?
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 02:01
|
|
|
SYSV Fanfic posted:So tearing in torchlight II linux is pretty bad. Dunno what I was expecting. SYSV Fanfic posted:Maybe I don't understand how it works. Does compiling for 386 still allow you to use extensions like MMX without inlining assembly? you need hand-written asm to get any speedups from mmx if you were just compiling c code, the old-fashioned 387 instructions were gonna do just fine in the sse 1, 3dnow, mmx era. probably still do fine today. idk -march and -mcpu flags weren't gonna do much for you with egcs / gcc 3.x. maybe that has changed now, with a billion sse revisions and much more sophisticated gcc
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 02:06
|
|
|
SYSV Fanfic posted:Spent all day getting lxqt to build because PPAs always gently caress up my system somehow. I've seen the future and it isn't pretty. netbsd
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 04:26
|
|
|
Suspicious Dish posted:You can't honestly believe this poo poo. Even at the time, you'd get slapped with a physical manual for documentation instead of hypermedia. actually, genera had an awesome online documentation system called "Concordia" that indexed all of the thousands of pages of documentation from individual methods all the way to system administration and getting started guides in a single hyperlinked format. many thousands of pages, nicely rendered in bite-sized contextually-accessible chunks. this was not long after the Mac was released, mind you. a site might typically have one set of physical docs, plus all of the online docs accessible on all workstations via a file serve. notorious b.s.d. is right that it wasn't lisp itself that made these workstations great, it was the level of consistency and whole-system integration targeted at high-end professional users. (typically software developers working in AI, oil exploration, that sort of thing.) the only Unix system that was even remotely comparable was NEXTSTEP. and that still had a bifurcation between the C low level and the ObjC high level and the parts of the OS glued together with shell scripts and...
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 04:32
|
|
|
Suspicious Dish posted:You can't honestly believe this poo poo. Even at the time, you'd get slapped with a physical manual for documentation instead of hypermedia. eschaton already covered the "can't believe this poo poo" part as for the physical docs, i don't think symbolics ever went in for that. i'm not old enough or important enough to have rated a lispM in the glory days, but i've never seen a symbolics "documentation wall" the way that you see for DEC, IBM, Sun, et al i honestly don' t think they published anything more than hardware troubleshooting on paper, because what would be the point? their hypertext setup was way the gently caress better than any binder
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 04:38
|
|
|
Ok, so you can survive in the hypermedia world as long as you never want to add some hardware from another vendor. But yes, walled gardens can be very pretty and internally consistent.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 05:38
|
|
|
Suspicious Dish posted:Ok, so you can survive in the hypermedia world as long as you never want to add some hardware from another vendor. yes, you can survive in the hypermedia world if you stay in the hypermedia world adding hardware to a single computer isn't done in most professional environments because it makes accounting for depreciation a pain
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 05:43
|
|
|
I'll be glad to let my coworkers know that they can't plug in USB thumb drives because of something a guy unironically advocating symbolics in 2015 about depreciation.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 05:45
|
|
|
add hardware. lol. like 80s workstations that cost more than a car ...were commodity poo poo . let me throw this geforce into my lisp machine. this is the most yospos argument
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 05:46
|
|
|
those towers were sick as gently caress
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 05:50
|
|
|
Suspicious Dish posted:Ok, so you can survive in the hypermedia world as long as you never want to add some hardware from another vendor. you could buy hardware items from other vendors, and they integrated nicely. it was in the best interest of the primary vendor (symbolics) to make the bus specs public and encourage integration. at the same time, yes, the internal consistency was definitely a walled garden. the walls were not to keep others out, the walls were there to keep the existing players in.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 05:51
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 05:52
|
|
|
pram posted:those towers were sick as gently caress this is not a complete symbolics workstation. the lovely, tiny monitor indicates it came from the service processor for a Thinking Machines device. (nobody spending $100k on a workstation cared about the cost savings for a 14" monitor.) remember jurassic park? the "Thinking Machines" were so expensive you needed a $100k symbolics workstation just to boot it up and load the OS. presumably that is when you equip a symbolics lispM with a uselessly lovely monitor. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 05:54
|
|
|
uhh pretty sure yr wrong. please calibrate your wikipedia module
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 05:58
|
|
|
but yes jurassic park is a masterpiece
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 05:59
|
|
|
by the time jurassic park aired the company was already hosed. i assume that their props were just LED panels and there were no functioning computers there if your computer is so expensive it needs an unimaginably expensive lispM as its service processor, maybe you don' thave a business model pro tips for 1988
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 06:00
|
|
|
none of my computars is tainted with lunix
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 06:12
|
|
|
theadder posted:none of my computars is tainted with lunix somewhere in your computer regardless of os is an etc/hosts and it is a mark of shame we all bare
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 07:41
|
|
|
ahmeni posted:somewhere in your computer regardless of os is an etc/hosts and it is a mark of shame we all bare at least on
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 12:54
|
|
|
How long did it take big computers in the late 1980s/early 1990s to boot? In jurassic park I was always like - why didn't they just turn it off and back on again.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 13:02
|
|
|
anti climactic I guess - "Hold on to your butts, I'm rebooting the computer." - sam jackson.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 13:04
|
|
|
pram posted:but yes jurassic park is a masterpiece truefacts
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 14:40
|
|
|
i don't like the scene in jurassic park where they're in a tree and a jeep is in the tree and the jeep starts falling towards them and instead of moving to the side, they try to run straight down, taking the same path that the jeep is that was jurassic park, right?
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 14:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 03:38 |
|
|
prefect posted:i don't like the scene in jurassic park where they're in a tree and a jeep is in the tree and the jeep starts falling towards them and instead of moving to the side, they try to run straight down, taking the same path that the jeep is Yeah. Hay guys, check out this awesome kde spin fedora live cd screen shot  This is after the installer crashed several times while I was trying partition the disks. Then kde whatever dissappeard. The install medium passes verification.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2015 15:01
|
|