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The best system I've seen is the one Life is Feudal did, where you get to choose your own vulnerability windows from certain preset date/time blocks. The more people in your clan, the more windows you have. But that doesn't even really work, because larger groups will still ultimately eventually grind all of their enemies to dust and it'll end up the same as if they could attack whenever, just take longer. And the "fun" is always in completely stoneaging your opponent. In Life is Feudal for example it was exponentially more expensive to destroy any given thing than to build any given thing, but that didn't stop attackers from breaking down the walls of a fort and burning every standing building to the ground just to ruin their enemy's day.
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Jan 31, 2023 19:35
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LLSix posted:I wonder if any one has successfully implemented asynchronous PvP. Something where people can rob you while you're offline but not so punitive that it requires shifts of people manning the defenses. IIRC doesn't EVE online do this with the nullsec structure combat? As in space stations are only vulnerable for certain windows? Your ship can always get shot down but the buildings remain E. Although that's an mmo, I'm getting my lines crossed with these "there's a 100 people on the map leveling up their skills but its not a MMORPG" games CuddleCryptid fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Jan 31, 2023 |
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Jan 31, 2023 20:05
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V Rising has that vibe. In the default pvp settings there are both windows where you can pvp and assault each other's castles. There's also a setting for how devastating such an attack would be to you and your castle of course.
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Jan 31, 2023 20:07
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right now SCUM only really has PvP as a major challenge outside of the giant mechs that patrol military sites but adding hostile survivor AI and weird monsters is on their roadmap for near release which makes me glad because i really enjoy how stupidly detailed that game's survival simulation elements are.
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Jan 31, 2023 20:32
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CuddleCryptid posted:IIRC doesn't EVE online do this with the nullsec structure combat? As in space stations are only vulnerable for certain windows? Your ship can always get shot down but the buildings remain Unless things have changed, you can always attack things in Eve, but what happens is the structure goes invulnerable for x hours before it can be destroyed so the owners can schedule a defense and repair it
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Jan 31, 2023 20:44
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ShadowMar posted:right now SCUM only really has PvP as a major challenge outside of the giant mechs that patrol military sites but adding hostile survivor AI and weird monsters is on their roadmap for near release which makes me glad because i really enjoy how stupidly detailed that game's survival simulation elements are. The lack of basically anything PVE is the biggest flaw of SCUM at the moment, IMO. Basically all we have for enemies aside from the mechs and wild animals are the exact same zombies we had in 2018 and they haven't even had any AI, graphic or updates of any kind (the explosive puppet was added at some point). The game sorely needs some AI enemies, TEC-1 (the corporation controlling the island) kill patrols, mutants, anything new. If you don't want to make PVP your main source of conflict there's not much to do.
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Jan 31, 2023 21:10
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TeaJay posted:The lack of basically anything PVE is the biggest flaw of SCUM at the moment, IMO. Basically all we have for enemies aside from the mechs and wild animals are the exact same zombies we had in 2018 and they haven't even had any AI, graphic or updates of any kind (the explosive puppet was added at some point). The game sorely needs some AI enemies, TEC-1 (the corporation controlling the island) kill patrols, mutants, anything new. If you don't want to make PVP your main source of conflict there's not much to do. i typically play the game single player and just bump the numbers of zombies up by an extreme amount but yeah, the new AI rework/additions they've been teasing for a while now are the main thing the game really needs
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Jan 31, 2023 21:15
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LLSix posted:I wonder if any one has successfully implemented asynchronous PvP. Something where people can rob you while you're offline but not so punitive that it requires shifts of people manning the defenses. the glaring flaw in every attempt at this idea is that it sucks hard for one party, and that position only worsens in a persistent game, so the victims have zero incentive to stay. if you can't make it fun to be a victim (and good luck with that) then you will have problems long term  e: the biggest, sharpest and most clear example of this that developers just keep ignoring is Ultima Online, for years they developed a culture trying to encourage this mix of unwelcome pvp and then they gave the playerbase a way to opt out and oops Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Jan 31, 2023 |
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Jan 31, 2023 22:51
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The need to constantly (As in daily) defend your stuff is wearing and discourages playing too. Maybe I want to play something else today? But then I might lose all my poo poo... eh, maybe I just won't play at all!
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Jan 31, 2023 22:53
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maybe I played for a month scraping bear asses together to make a lovely lean to and then 25 guys in endgame gear came and wrecked it
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Jan 31, 2023 22:56
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If the assaulter was interested in assaulting the bestly most interestingly put together loot full base then the game would simply need to reward the defender better for losing a defense than winning one. There's been more than a few home alone simulators that reward you just as well for losing a defense and they've all had fairly tepid responses. They aren't selling fun assaults. They're selling a framework to lure people in to a flavor of the month to build sand castles for the no lifers to kick down.
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Jan 31, 2023 23:08
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Flesh Forge posted:maybe I played for a month scraping bear asses together to make a lovely lean to and then 25 guys in endgame gear came and wrecked it This is kind of the root of the issue, if you are going to make a persistent PvP game then it has to be easy to start. Progress up the power tree should be sharply logarithmic, where you can get *enough* to be fairly stable and take on moderate threats within an hour or two, then require a lot more time to go from point to point. A bow should be ten minutes, a pistol should be two hours, a rifle should be ten. Too many of these games have you utterly helpless for days on end, and then when you finally get to the point where you are halfway competent you just get shot and lose it all again.
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Jan 31, 2023 23:08
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if someone manages to find a way to make victims have a good time of this then maybe that kind of game can have broad appeal, but no one has yet
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Jan 31, 2023 23:14
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MGS5 had really good PVP, where you set up a base that other people could loot and steal your resources/people. If you were online when it happened you could choose to try to help defend it. You could protect your best people so they wouldn't get stolen, and resources were really easy to get so it wasn't a big deal if they got ganked, and unless the attacker played a perfect game and went completely undetected you got an opportunity to raid them back in retaliation. You also got big rewards even if your NPC defenders managed to kill someone who was attacking you, so participating in PVP was almost always a net gain. I think it was a great model that has been completely ignored by everyone since.
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Jan 31, 2023 23:19
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Gadzuko posted:MGS5 had really good PVP, where you set up a base that other people could loot and steal your resources/people. If you were online when it happened you could choose to try to help defend it. You could protect your best people so they wouldn't get stolen, and resources were really easy to get so it wasn't a big deal if they got ganked, and unless the attacker played a perfect game and went completely undetected you got an opportunity to raid them back in retaliation. You also got big rewards even if your NPC defenders managed to kill someone who was attacking you, so participating in PVP was almost always a net gain. I think it was a great model that has been completely ignored by everyone since. it was incredibly annoying on a visceral level whether it objectively set you back a meaningful amount or not; an annoyance only partly leavened by a successful kill when you were already in the game trying to do something only to get yanked out of it and frustrating when every time you logged off some Korean teenager would start loving with your poo poo. the map was always basically the same oil rig (so, pretty boring to play) and the NPCs were running MGS5's AI so only an absolute thunderfooted clod would ever get detected while you were out let alone killed, and Mr. Bean doesn't have anything worth stealing. If that was a "great model" the whole concept should be outlawed. A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Jan 31, 2023 |
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Jan 31, 2023 23:47
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Ark does have bosses so there is endgame pve content. Getting the 40 or so Rex's together to take down them can be s challenge for some. Me I just enjoyed exploring and taming stuff, and building bases. I think Conan is the better pve though, there's a lot of content to go through and there is a clear endgoal for you, to escape the Exiled Lands. Though hilariously why would you want to leave? You have a massive castle with an army and topless dancers for you to rule over.
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Feb 1, 2023 01:05
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Conan is pretty fuckin great once you look past the whole problematic issue of thralls and all. Hard to look past it when your wall is lined with high level archers though  I wish I had screenshots of the house I built my clan. 
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Feb 1, 2023 02:50
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TeaJay posted:The lack of basically anything PVE is the biggest flaw of SCUM at the moment, IMO. Basically all we have for enemies aside from the mechs and wild animals are the exact same zombies we had in 2018 and they haven't even had any AI, graphic or updates of any kind (the explosive puppet was added at some point). The game sorely needs some AI enemies, TEC-1 (the corporation controlling the island) kill patrols, mutants, anything new. If you don't want to make PVP your main source of conflict there's not much to do. Yeah its a real shame. I played Deadside because the novelty of AI not being zombies for once but instead actual guys with guns was really awesome, but the game still is pretty bare on the content. Havent tried PvP, but I'm not really into the whole Tarkov gank-thing. Scum but with decent human AI would be my dream game
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Feb 1, 2023 03:05
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It's only tangentially related and not really survival, but I'm going to mention it in the wake of Tarkov and Zero Sievert discussion, Hell is Others is free on the Epic game launcher till Feb 2nd so a friend and I grabbed it. A lot of similar energy to ZS and some PVP I actually don't hate. Might be worth a grab if you're into the genre, and the price is right.
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Feb 1, 2023 03:12
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i really liked conan and i owned literally every DLC for the game until they added battle pass poo poo and a mtx store that's explicitly designed to be as consumer unfriendly as possible. just completely destroyed any interest in playing that game again if the developers are going to be that level of lovely.
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Feb 1, 2023 04:01
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Flesh Forge posted:if someone manages to find a way to make victims have a good time of this then maybe that kind of game can have broad appeal, but no one has yet If someone ganks you or wrecks your poo poo you can become a ghost and haunt them. Once a day or whatever you can do a haunting and randomly break or glitch their stuff. The more people you power gank the more ghosts you have so huge assholes are just constantly haunted and harassed by the game mechanics. Exorcising a haunting requires some expensive resource or time sink, so being a little bit more of an rear end in a top hat doesn't ruin you but if you do it all the time either ghosts are constantly loving with your day or you go broke getting rid of them. Killing someone who attacked you first, or someone in a fair fight, or accepted duel, doesn't cause a haunting.
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Feb 1, 2023 04:44
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mrmcd posted:Exorcising a haunting requires some expensive resource or time sink Either that or they'd figure how to game the system and attack you in a way that the game always flags it as a defensive kill.
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Feb 1, 2023 05:19
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yeah Conan Exiles is great, the Siptah map isn't so much for solo PVE but the original map is very good with the small caveat that the Purge mechanic (NPC raids) is not connected to your base's strength or your strength at all, and they're also super infrequent. If you build your base anywhere but in the volcano area you'll be getting weak raids. Thankfully there are mods for that though.
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Feb 1, 2023 05:19
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mrmcd posted:If someone ganks you or wrecks your poo poo you can become a ghost and haunt them. Once a day or whatever you can do a haunting and randomly break or glitch their stuff. The more people you power gank the more ghosts you have so huge assholes are just constantly haunted and harassed by the game mechanics. gently caress now I wanna haunt a guy. or roll with an entourage of the angry ghosts of dudes I punked. Can I take them on my hauntings? A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Feb 1, 2023 |
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Feb 1, 2023 06:12
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I'm sure this question comes up every now and then but, thought I'd check in on to see if anyone's played Icarus in the last few weeks? They went open world from what I understand recently so Im interested to hear how the gameplay loop is and the features?
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Feb 1, 2023 18:13
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I played Icarus a month or so ago but didn't get far into the gameplay loop. I found it pretty boring right from the start, so I refunded it before I passed the refund period. I didn't find anything in Icarus which hasn't been done better elsewhere.
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Feb 1, 2023 18:35
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Oysters Autobio posted:I'm sure this question comes up every now and then but, thought I'd check in on to see if anyone's played Icarus in the last few weeks? They went open world from what I understand recently so Im interested to hear how the gameplay loop is and the features? Found this in one of their updates: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATDCIOljkK4 e: Watched it and it seems like it adds a more traditional style persistent survival game mode that includes missions you can get and complete from within that world. RandomBlue fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Feb 1, 2023 |
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Feb 1, 2023 18:38
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I picked up Icarus again like two weeks ago and made it like an hour into it. I had previously left my character on a mission for >30 days realtime when I put it down last time so I lost the entire character and all of the expensive exotic-purchased gear they were wearing. I didn't lose the unlocks at least for that gear, but I couldn't afford to replace it so I started back as a level 1 full sticks and stones mode. I had zero interest in continuing.
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Feb 1, 2023 18:39
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LLSix posted:I wonder if any one has successfully implemented asynchronous PvP. Something where people can rob you while you're offline but not so punitive that it requires shifts of people manning the defenses. Clash of Clans and its clones have a system that might work in survival. Offline resource generation with other players able to raid your base for those resources but your base is repaired and continues to regenerate resources after the raid.
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Feb 2, 2023 05:34
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Conanchat: is Savage Wilds any good? I enjoyed the main map and, to a lesser extent, Siptah, and have been thinking about a new run.
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Feb 2, 2023 06:53
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Beefeater1980 posted:Conanchat: is Savage Wilds any good? I enjoyed the main map and, to a lesser extent, Siptah, and have been thinking about a new run. It is great. Play it. There is no real explanation on where you should be going and doing besides subtle hints in the journey but it is a well designed map for PvE.
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Feb 2, 2023 18:41
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Looking to try out the STALKER GAMMA mod, but reading through all the instructions make it seem super sketchy. Am I just being paranoid? "Turn off your antivirus!" "Make sure to ONLY save it in your root C:\ drive!".
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Feb 3, 2023 02:49
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Oysters Autobio posted:Looking to try out the STALKER GAMMA mod, but reading through all the instructions make it seem super sketchy. Am I just being paranoid? "Turn off your antivirus!" "Make sure to ONLY save it in your root C:\ drive!". You don't have to turn off AV or put it in base c drive. It's just idiot-proofing instructions. As long as you don't put it in a program files folder you'll be fine. I personally have mine in C:\games
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Feb 3, 2023 02:59
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Though I haven't played it in a few weeks, between playing Zero Sievert, thinking back on my experiences in Escape from Tarkov, and musing on the recent "Sky island" mod for Cataclysm:DDA, I think I want more survival games with a "Roguelike+Raid" style gameplay loop. You have a fixed, relatively safe, home base that you're slowly working on improving by building up supplies and facilities, and then you gear up and go to some wholly or partly random generated place and try to loot useful things and/or complete quests/objectives for various reasons, and after fufilling certain conditions you get transported back to base to unload your haul, but if you die or are otherwise defeated during the raid you lose everything you found and everything you brought into the raid (maybe everything brought in optional). I know that isn't that different from many existing survival games, but I think the (semi) randomness of the map generation is a big thing for me as well as the risk factor of losing your finds/gears. Anyone know any other survival games that fit this kind of model?
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Feb 3, 2023 04:02
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Though I haven't played it in a few weeks, between playing Zero Sievert, thinking back on my experiences in Escape from Tarkov, and musing on the recent "Sky island" mod for Cataclysm:DDA, I think I want more survival games with a "Roguelike+Raid" style gameplay loop. You have a fixed, relatively safe, home base that you're slowly working on improving by building up supplies and facilities, and then you gear up and go to some wholly or partly random generated place and try to loot useful things and/or complete quests/objectives for various reasons, and after fufilling certain conditions you get transported back to base to unload your haul, but if you die or are otherwise defeated during the raid you lose everything you found and everything you brought into the raid (maybe everything brought in optional). I sort of thought that's what Icarus was going to be about, so the reality was even more disappointing than it probably was for most.
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Feb 3, 2023 05:16
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The refresh is an important part of it too. If you're just looting an open world you're reducing the loot in your area and will eventually run out but with a raid format you're not depleting anything. Every raid is the same tier, where in an open world you're slowly going to worse and worse places as you go through the best places to loot things. Makes me think that a survival game where you have to stay nomadic as you loot everything around you and move on would be interesting.
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Feb 3, 2023 10:44
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7 Days to Die is very good in that sense, the big appeal (to me at least) is the huge library of handcrafted mini-dungeons, which you can fight through or sneak through or just blast through with explosives if you like, and each of them is semi-randomized even when repeated in a large game world. Totally reasonable to play it that way.
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Feb 3, 2023 12:31
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Phigs posted:The refresh is an important part of it too. If you're just looting an open world you're reducing the loot in your area and will eventually run out but with a raid format you're not depleting anything. Every raid is the same tier, where in an open world you're slowly going to worse and worse places as you go through the best places to loot things. Makes me think that a survival game where you have to stay nomadic as you loot everything around you and move on would be interesting. Flesh Forge posted:7 Days to Die is very good in that sense, the big appeal (to me at least) is the huge library of handcrafted mini-dungeons, which you can fight through or sneak through or just blast through with explosives if you like, and each of them is semi-randomized even when repeated in a large game world. Totally reasonable to play it that way.
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Feb 3, 2023 13:09
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I was responding to Phigs re: "I looted everything it's time to move on"
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Feb 3, 2023 13:13
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Phigs posted:The refresh is an important part of it too. If you're just looting an open world you're reducing the loot in your area and will eventually run out but with a raid format you're not depleting anything. Every raid is the same tier, where in an open world you're slowly going to worse and worse places as you go through the best places to loot things. Makes me think that a survival game where you have to stay nomadic as you loot everything around you and move on would be interesting. Refresh could be done in a bit more immersive way too. I try to pretend that loot refresh is just me looking through everything again and finding stuff I didnt see the first time around. Unfortunately, games basically suffer from not enough "stuff". It's either the same containers, or the same bare spots for a few items. Or, if you do fill the environment with lots of stuff thats unlootable, it feels artificial. So its sort of a limitation just with the game engines I guess for open world. Loot despawn doesn't help either. If I remembered something nearby me had item x, I could rely on it staying there and come back for it when I needed it. But, games have to do that kind of garbage collection for performance.
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Feb 3, 2023 13:13
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