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skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?
The jailers would be ok if their health drain was related to their gas cloud instead of just eye contact. Or if they just didn’t have the gas cloud since afaik it does nothing but confuse new players. They’re one of the only enemies in the series that has such a huge fake tell, and they also happen to be able to kill you almost instantly. feels like mere trolling since they’re hardly fun to fight.

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Catgirl Al Capone
Dec 15, 2007

if you know that the drain is through line of sight it's kinda satisfying to be sneaky and clever trying to pick them off before they can act and use the environment to block their vision. it's the sort of gameplay that kinda fits maneuvering around a prison. but yeah the tell isn't very good at giving you that information.

Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010
I remember hearing DS3 was supposed to have more stealth elements and yeah, the jailers seem like a holdover from that, especially the small procession right before the Profaned Capital which feels like you’re supposed to sneak past them with sneaking mechanics as opposed to normal skulking.

raditts
Feb 21, 2001

The Kwanzaa Bot is here to protect me.


Catgirl Al Capone posted:

if you know that the drain is through line of sight it's kinda satisfying to be sneaky and clever trying to pick them off before they can act and use the environment to block their vision. it's the sort of gameplay that kinda fits maneuvering around a prison. but yeah the tell isn't very good at giving you that information.

That works for all of them except for that one fucker that's at the end of a long hallway.

Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010
The messed up part is that that one isn’t even guarding anything especially good, just a large titanite shard I think.

LazyMaybe
Aug 18, 2013

oouagh
you can almost always just rush them down, especially if you start running at them before they see you. their startup animation for the gaze is quite slow and they have no poise.
the one time you really have to be careful is the big room with a lot of them in it, but all it takes is being a bit mindful of when you engage them.

Nihilarian
Oct 2, 2013


Is the herald class still crap these days

LazyMaybe
Aug 18, 2013

oouagh
it's not optimal but starting classes don't mean that much unless you're looking to get your level as low as possible for a given pvp build

KIM JONG TRILL
Nov 29, 2006

GIN AND JUCHE
I know trophies are dumb and all but I'm on a mission to Plat all the from games and the amount of grinding to get the miracles/pyromancies/sorceries trophy is loving dumb as hell.

Nihilarian
Oct 2, 2013


Looking at patch notes looks like they added faith scaling to like half a dozen weapons after i finished my run lol. Probably some in the dlc too

LazyMaybe
Aug 18, 2013

oouagh

KIM JONG TRILL posted:

I know trophies are dumb and all but I'm on a mission to Plat all the from games and the amount of grinding to get the miracles/pyromancies/sorceries trophy is loving dumb as hell.
could be worse. could be the all rings achievement, which includes all +1 and +2 variants, meaning going through to NG+2 without missing anything on any of the cycles

Arrhythmia
Jul 22, 2011
You can miss the rings, they'll just be there next cycle.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.
I go back to play the old games and the lack of a dedicated jump button fucks me up. Elden Ring has messed with my muscle memory.

Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010
Honestly just being able to press triangle to two hand is weird as heck after ER, and not being spoiled for level ups. I mean, two handing doesn’t have much use on a pyro build since poise seems to be an all or nothing thing with a standard sword where you just mash R1 and the bad man dies or they have Too Much Poise but maybe I haven’t experimented enough. I don’t think poise works the way it did in DS1 where you were guaranteed to stagger an enemy if you did X poise damage in a given swing at any rate but I could definitely be wrong.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.
DS3 poise is basically only on hyper-armor but it's also completely binary, e.g. at a particular poise value, if you get hit with X attack while doing Y attack animation and you successfully poise through it, you will ALWAYS poise through it under those circumstances, and if you don't, you never will. e: see below!

I vastly prefer this to Elden Ring's weird combination of an invisible HP bar some of the time and working like DS3 only if the bar is full or w/e it is

Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 13:15 on May 17, 2024

Paracelsus
Apr 6, 2009

bless this post ~kya

BiggerBoat posted:

I go back to play the old games and the lack of a dedicated jump button fucks me up. Elden Ring has messed with my muscle memory.

Also fall damage kicks in really early compared to ER.

GrossMurpel
Apr 8, 2011
It's not just the muscle memory but also it makes the level design look a bit contrived with how often you think "I should be able to just jump that"

LazyMaybe
Aug 18, 2013

oouagh

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

DS3 poise is basically only on hyper-armor but it's also completely binary, e.g. at a particular poise value, if you get hit with X attack while doing Y attack animation and you successfully poise through it, you will ALWAYS poise through it under those circumstances, and if you don't, you never will.

I vastly prefer this to Elden Ring's weird combination of an invisible HP bar some of the time and working like DS3 only if the bar is full or w/e it is
DS3 poise also has an invisible hp bar, it's just resetting to 80% on doing a hyperarmor r1 and 100% on doing many weapon arts.

Also the poise stat on armor does make a difference, it basically serves as defense for the poisehealth hyperarmor moves give you. You need certain amounts of the poise stat from armor to actually hyperarmor through heavier attacks. Can find breakpoints for whatever setup you have with this. Poise only resetting to 80% on a swing but resetting to 100% on poisebreak is why the amount of poise stat needed for one trade vs indefinite trades is different. So it's not actually true that if you poise thru X attack with Y animation, you always will. You might only be able to at 100% poisehealth, requiring frequent WA use to make those trades.

e: this video is more descriptive than I can be here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO8CvQd4w00

LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 22:56 on May 16, 2024

codo27
Apr 21, 2008

Trophchievements are the dumbest poo poo to me. They are basically never actual achievements that are worth bragging about, the way I see it if they were going to be worthwhile they should require you to do things not everybody can or will be able to achieve, then its worth having that badge on your account. As long as they are just grindy poo poo for the big ones, it'll never be worth it to me.

DS:R - 50 hrs, 18/41 achievements
DS2 - 183 hrs, 22/38
DS3 - 268 hrs, 35/43
ER - 168 hrs, 34/42

DS3 is my highest percentage, and basically all thats left is "collect all of x". I couldn't care less. I dont think I've ever 100%'d a single game, meanwhile my wife has done several and so has my brother, who has actually used guides to look up locations for poo poo just to get the award, and I just cant see the fun or value in that at all.

goblin week
Jan 26, 2019

Absolute clown.
gently caress ur so cool.....

Perfect Potato
Mar 4, 2009
I did all of DS3 and 99% of ER leaving a couple endings incomplete but gently caress if I'm juggling Sif's souls around for 3 playthroughs on the same character

giZm
Jul 7, 2003

Only the insane equates pain with success

codo27 posted:

Trophchievements are the dumbest poo poo to me. They are basically never actual achievements that are worth bragging about, the way I see it if they were going to be worthwhile they should require you to do things not everybody can or will be able to achieve, then its worth having that badge on your account. As long as they are just grindy poo poo for the big ones, it'll never be worth it to me.
Seems to me like you can't or won't ever be able to achieve the grinding needed for those items, not sure why you're bragging about not getting those achievements.

Volte
Oct 4, 2004

woosh woosh
I've gotten all the Dark Souls 1 trophies twice and it wasn't that bad, although I did shamelessly save scum some of the upgrade material ones (since you can do the upgrade to pop the achievement, quit the game before leaving the menu, and the game won't have saved and you get your materials back). The worst part was grinding for the Channeler's Trident. Sekiro was probably the worst grind but it was very mindless at least.

Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010
General Souls question: how do you guys usually wield your armaments wrt casting items? I’m pretty sure DS3 at least starts you off with your weapon in the right hand and catalyst in the left, but usually when I wanna cast it’s a mutually exclusive option with normal attacking, not something I wanna mix and match, so I just put my pyromancy flame on as my second right hand weapon. I guess that makes using [element] Weapon spells kinda hard but those kinda feel more suited for melee builds that have enough int/fth for them rather than something you’d do with a sorcerer with spells to pew pew the enemy with.

Also, am I remembering the lore right, and the reason the Profaned Capital is so effed up is because they tried making their own version of the Chaos Flame?

GrossMurpel
Apr 8, 2011

Last Celebration posted:

General Souls question: how do you guys usually wield your armaments wrt casting items? I’m pretty sure DS3 at least starts you off with your weapon in the right hand and catalyst in the left, but usually when I wanna cast it’s a mutually exclusive option with normal attacking, not something I wanna mix and match, so I just put my pyromancy flame on as my second right hand weapon. I guess that makes using [element] Weapon spells kinda hard but those kinda feel more suited for melee builds that have enough int/fth for them rather than something you’d do with a sorcerer with spells to pew pew the enemy with.

Also, am I remembering the lore right, and the reason the Profaned Capital is so effed up is because they tried making their own version of the Chaos Flame?

It's been a while since it was a mutually exclusive thing for me, especially in DS3 I just went with an infused weapon right hand and whatever catalyst in the left hand. Sometimes you need to throw a fireball even if you mostly use melee, you know?
I think the last time I only used sorceries was in DS1 when they were actually as useful as weapons in every case

giZm
Jul 7, 2003

Only the insane equates pain with success

Last Celebration posted:

General Souls question: how do you guys usually wield your armaments wrt casting items? I’m pretty sure DS3 at least starts you off with your weapon in the right hand and catalyst in the left, but usually when I wanna cast it’s a mutually exclusive option with normal attacking, not something I wanna mix and match, so I just put my pyromancy flame on as my second right hand weapon. I guess that makes using [element] Weapon spells kinda hard but those kinda feel more suited for melee builds that have enough int/fth for them rather than something you’d do with a sorcerer with spells to pew pew the enemy with.
There is nothing gained from two-handing catalysts, so it always goes in the off-hand. You'll want something to smack stuff that comes into melee range anyway, so always bring a hand axe or a short sword in the right hand for the quick RB RB LT LT combo.

giZm fucked around with this message at 19:17 on May 17, 2024

axolotl farmer
May 17, 2007

Now I'm going to sing the Perry Mason theme

Last Celebration posted:


Also, am I remembering the lore right, and the reason the Profaned Capital is so effed up is because they tried making their own version of the Chaos Flame?

In every cycle someone tries to create a new First flame. It never works. In DS1, it resulted in Demons and deformities like Bed of Chaos and Ceaseless Discharge. In DS2, it’s more obtuse, but it ends up with the Lost Sinner locked up in the Bastille.

Someone tried to create a flame in the Profaned Capital, and everyone got burned to a crisp. Also, demon-like monsters happened. Yhorm sacrificed himself by linking the flame and restarting the cycle.

Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010
Genuinely baffled how the whole sequence of Yhorm from the start of the fight up until every new player lost their Yhorm souls by Dancer made it past playtesting. Like, they’re obviously good and fair fights in and of themselves, but the sheer jank in expecting a player to act in a certain way without foreknowledge (or even with it wrt Storm Ruler) is just odd and unrefined in a way only the obviously unfinished parts of the series are.

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?
It’s just because the DS3 map is jank and they were scrambling for a way to remind people that Lothric is progress. There’s also a bonfire down the stairs from Dancer so they probably figured it wasn’t too harsh.

And they’d have a point tbh, these are the same guys who figured DeS should end with you getting booted immediately into the incredibly punishing NG+ with 300000 souls and no way to spend them until you clear the zone.

codo27
Apr 21, 2008

Made it up to SoC. I actually had to give up on NK after a couple dozen tries. Its so frustrating knowing his whole gimmick is loving with your roll timing and yet not being able to keep that in the forefront of my mind during the fight. Also, maybe I'm not jamming roll fast enough but one of his attacks seems to sort of stunlock me and leave me open for the follow up which automatically kills me as all his attacks do at least 55% on me. Frustrated with the reach of my broadsword which I've used basically the whole game, I went and +9'd a spear for added reach to make the first phase easier. Even while locked on though my guy still refuses to really aim upwards all that much when the dragon's head isn't low to the ground.

Lorian seemed pretty easy in comparison. I kept the ghru dagger in the off hand and +9'd it as well, its really great against people like him that are so easy to get close to and you can get in a string of attacks quickly and easily. Its too bad basically everything is immune to poison though.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.
People talk about Dancer but, God drat, I have to say that Twin Princes is my personal hardest boss in any DS game except maybe Melania in Elden Ring. Twin Princes can gently caress right off.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 28, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...

codo27 posted:

Made it up to SoC. I actually had to give up on NK after a couple dozen tries. Its so frustrating knowing his whole gimmick is loving with your roll timing and yet not being able to keep that in the forefront of my mind during the fight. Also, maybe I'm not jamming roll fast enough but one of his attacks seems to sort of stunlock me and leave me open for the follow up which automatically kills me as all his attacks do at least 55% on me. Frustrated with the reach of my broadsword which I've used basically the whole game, I went and +9'd a spear for added reach to make the first phase easier. Even while locked on though my guy still refuses to really aim upwards all that much when the dragon's head isn't low to the ground.

Lorian seemed pretty easy in comparison. I kept the ghru dagger in the off hand and +9'd it as well, its really great against people like him that are so easy to get close to and you can get in a string of attacks quickly and easily. Its too bad basically everything is immune to poison though.

A shield with high lightning resistance makes nameless king much more manageable. Alternatively, he has practically no response to ranged attacks.

War Wizard
Jan 4, 2007

:)

BiggerBoat posted:

People talk about Dancer but, God drat, I have to say that Twin Princes is my personal hardest boss in any DS game except maybe Melania in Elden Ring. Twin Princes can gently caress right off.

I don't understand this. What about the fight is hard? I've always found it to be one of the better balanced fights.

Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010

War Wizard posted:

I don't understand this. What about the fight is hard? I've always found it to be one of the better balanced fights.

I didn’t find them to be hard exactly, but they’re where my first run ended because it’s still a full length, admittedly pretty solid and not very hard boss fight before the real fight with kaiju delayed laser beams, just wasn’t fun. Guess I’ll probably just put up with the tedium of running through a chunk of the zone to reach the summon area placed inexplicably before the bonfire this time.

Arrhythmia
Jul 22, 2011
Rise, if you would... for that is our curse.

Son of Thunderbeast
Sep 21, 2002

Arrhythmia posted:

Rise, if you would... for that is our curse.

Me on date night

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.

War Wizard posted:

I don't understand this. What about the fight is hard? I've always found it to be one of the better balanced fights.

Well, I die a lot.

The teleportation/instant hits get me the most. I just really struggle with that boss and so does my son, who is better at these game than I am.

No Dignity
Oct 15, 2007

I responded to the teleport by assuming he was doing *teleports behind you* every time and just rolled backwards into the presumed hit, that seemed to work pretty well for me

SHISHKABOB
Nov 30, 2012

Fun Shoe

War Wizard posted:

I don't understand this. What about the fight is hard? I've always found it to be one of the better balanced fights.

Are you saying well balanced fights can't be hard or something? I think of a well balanced fight in souls games to be one where the process of figuring out how to defeat the boss is one that's fulfilling and enjoyable, which basically means hard + fun. Which sounds like the subject of a porn bot spam email.

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codo27
Apr 21, 2008

I seem to remember having difficulty with them back yonder, but it was real easy this time, prob because I'm using smaller weapons with a focus on mobility. The teleports are really easy to avoid. Tons of time to get out of the way of the big drawn out overhead swing.

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