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MikeJF posted:I mean there's an ethical dilemma of what to do with any Marquis who just plain didn't want to work as a Starfleet crew and scrub power conduits or whatever, since, well, unlike the starfleet people they didn't sign up for this and basically slave-driving them to work would be super wrong. On a better show. As usual, the answer is found in 
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Nov 14, 2020 18:01
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CaptainSkinny posted:It's called the Hazard Team! Who were also the characters of Elite Force, a good old game.
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Nov 14, 2020 18:11
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MikeJF posted:I mean there's an ethical dilemma of what to do with any Marquis who just plain didn't want to work as a Starfleet crew and scrub power conduits or whatever, since, well, unlike the starfleet people they didn't sign up for this and basically slave-driving them to work would be super wrong. On a better show. They could've gotten off at the Amelia Earhart planet. They could've set up a a potato-farming colony in kazon territory, to keep the marquis spirit alive. They could've hijacked the threshold shuttlecraft, stocked it with the threshold antidote, and gotten back to the alpha quadrant in time to be genocided by the jem'hadar
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Nov 14, 2020 18:38
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Okay so I've said a couple of times that the holodeck is the perfect solution for keeping pre-warp or time displaced people on board, but there is very definitely a right and a wrong way to do it, the latter of which Nikolai "Bumbling Idiot" Rozhenko has now demonstrated in great detail. sub rosa coming up, I'm excited
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Nov 14, 2020 19:32
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Epicurius posted:They hated Cardassians because Cardassians violated the treaty that protected Federation citizens. From "The Maquis" the federation citizens were strongly encouraged to leave when the treaty ceded those colony worlds to cardassia. they were told very clearly that the cardassians suck poo poo and things probably wouldn't end well for them. their response was that it would be fine, man. they deliberately chose to live under cardassian rule and then were absolutely shocked when they discovered what that entailed despite having been told all about it. after all, there were all these rules and the cardassians were hardly snickering at all when they promised to be nice to anyone who stayed. what's more, the colonists always had the option of leaving! it wasn't a one-time opportunity that they missed out on.
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Nov 14, 2020 20:07
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:the federation citizens were strongly encouraged to leave when the treaty ceded those colony worlds to cardassia. they were told very clearly that the cardassians suck poo poo and things probably wouldn't end well for them. their response was that it would be fine, man. they deliberately chose to live under cardassian rule and then were absolutely shocked when they discovered what that entailed despite having been told all about it. after all, there were all these rules and the cardassians were hardly snickering at all when they promised to be nice to anyone who stayed. what's more, the colonists always had the option of leaving! it wasn't a one-time opportunity that they missed out on. The fed colonists were ordered to leave, but Picard felt guilty about something a person who might have been his ancestor did so he renegotiated the entire treaty. After this, the explicit Starfleet position was that the colonists should stay on these worlds if they wanted to. The colonists assumed that this meant that if the Cardassians broke the treaty, the Federation would have their back. So when the Cardassians broke the treaty and the Maquis started fighting back, they were very surprised to learn that the Federation was calling them out instead of the treaty breakers. To be fair, every action that the Maquis take after this point is extremely dumb, but up to this point they'd been acting in good faith.
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Nov 14, 2020 20:57
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sweet geek swag posted:The fed colonists were ordered to leave, but Picard felt guilty about something a person who might have been his ancestor did so he renegotiated the entire treaty. After this, the explicit Starfleet position was that the colonists should stay on these worlds if they wanted to. The colonists assumed that this meant that if the Cardassians broke the treaty, the Federation would have their back. That isn't what happened. The armistice was agreed to in 2367. The treaty was actually done 3 years later. The troop movements and the destruction of a colony and trying to frame it on bajorans was all pre-treaty. They were never told "oh you can totally live here and have the same rights and protections as if you lived in the federation" They were told, repeatedly, that they should move and the federation will help them move. The "treaty" you're thinking of with Picard wasn't a treaty but was those federation citizens renouncing their citizenship and joining the cardassian government.
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Nov 14, 2020 22:19
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The maquis are racist libertarian C.H.U.D.S. not to mention terrorists they are like oklahoma city bombing militia
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Nov 14, 2020 22:46
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My favorite star trek thing is you can request a video chat with just about anybody and there is a 99% chance they are sitting next to their display ready to jump on a galactic phone call from a space stranger
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Nov 15, 2020 00:47
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What if they are all just simulated on a holodeck 
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Nov 15, 2020 00:54
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Mrs. Dash posted:My favorite star trek thing is you can request a video chat with just about anybody and there is a 99% chance they are sitting next to their display ready to jump on a galactic phone call from a space stranger That's because if you don't answer in 5 seconds, Worf says, "They're not responding. I recommend photon torpedos. Full spread."
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Nov 15, 2020 00:55
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Mrs. Dash posted:My favorite star trek thing is you can request a video chat with just about anybody and there is a 99% chance they are sitting next to their display ready to jump on a galactic phone call from a space stranger Also, when you hail an entire planet, only one person will respond and it's always the person you want.
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Nov 15, 2020 00:56
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Maybe star trek alien of the day nonsensical layout is the way it is because it's just badly simulated reality
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Nov 15, 2020 00:58
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However, Kira learned to stop answering calls at 3 AM from Dukat.
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Nov 15, 2020 01:29
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CainFortea posted:That isn't what happened. The treaty I am talking about with Picard was a complete renegotiation of the Cardassian treaty. The Federation had promised the Cardassians that they would trade certain systems and they would evacuate those systems. Admiral Nechayev ordered Picard to forcibly remove the colonists if they wouldn't leave. There was no period where they said "Oh, you should leave, you don't want to live under the Cardassians." They were going to be forced to leave. Picard's treaty completely changed this. He had to renegotiate it with the Cardassians, because the Cardassians were trying to settle those planets. They weren't going to let anyone stay there! Instead of simply moving the populations of the planets being traded, all the planets in the region were now put in a demilitarized zone, so that neither side could station military forces there. Which meant that according to treaty the Cardassians weren't allowed to roll in and expel all the Federation settlers. The settlers were willing to accept Cardassian rule. What they weren't willing to accept was the Cardassians arming the local Cardassian colonies to start trying to wipe them out. Because the Cardassians did not want Federation settlers on those planets. They wanted them gone so they could settle their own people there. The Maquis started arming themselves to defend themselves and the Federation basically disowned them for breaking the treaty, when it was the Cardassians who broke the treaty. Now from the Cardassian perspective this is really lovely as well. You take three years to negotiate a treaty, then a group of colonists decides they don't want to leave. So a Federation captain tries to renegotiate the whole treaty! Why would you accept this as the Cardassians? There's only one reason to not reject this out of hand: the Cardassians felt they were in no position to reject any terms that the Federation imposed. The Federation had thoroughly trounced the Cardassians. And they had offered a territory swap as a way of mending fences. So from the Cardassian perspective, the Federation is already acting in bad faith, so they feel no real desire to actually abide by this treaty, as long as they can avoid getting caught breaking it. So they start arming the Cardassian colonists in the DMZ. Basically, both the Cardassians and the Maquis feel like the Federation betrayed them, and they are both right. The Federation is absolutely responsible for what happened afterwards.
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Nov 15, 2020 02:46
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Flipswitch posted:The Ds9 ep of Dax and the Klingons vs the Albino is on and I'm never sure if I like this episode or not The bad guy grunts in this are so cheap. They are lower rent than the Putties from Power Rangers
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Nov 15, 2020 02:48
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Holy poo poo, TNG Season One has not aged well at all.
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Nov 15, 2020 03:09
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tango alpha delta posted:Holy poo poo, TNG Season One has not aged well at all. Cocaine is a hell of a drug
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Nov 15, 2020 03:39
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sweet geek swag posted:
that's the really funny part, because exactly what did they think cardassian rule would be if not that?
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Nov 15, 2020 06:01
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tango alpha delta posted:Holy poo poo, TNG Season One has not aged well at all. rape gangs Rape Gangs RAPE GANGS
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Nov 15, 2020 06:28
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:that's the really funny part, because exactly what did they think cardassian rule would be if not that? Federation optimism can be pretty blind, but after the Setlik Massacre this is pretty out of touch, yes.
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Nov 15, 2020 06:34
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The Federation also cut a really bad deal with Cardassia because they were reeling from Wolf-359 and didn't have the firepower needed to back up their negotiations. It was quick and it was messy and it left a lot of citizens in the DMZ out in the cold.
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Nov 15, 2020 06:36
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Arcsquad12 posted:The Federation also cut a really bad deal with Cardassia because they were reeling from Wolf-359 and didn't have the firepower needed to back up their negotiations. It was quick and it was messy and it left a lot of citizens in the DMZ out in the cold. I like how they made this point but then a few years later they had multiple massive fleets worth of ships ready to fight the dominion. Starfleets shipyards must crank them out like WW2 liberty ships
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Nov 15, 2020 06:59
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Mrs. Dash posted:rape gangs The first time my girlfriend heard Tasha casually mention rape gangs, she was like “wait what the gently caress did she just say”. Season one TNG 
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Nov 15, 2020 07:15
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If you steal her purse after the rape you are kicked out of the Rape Gang. You wanna be a thief? Then go and join a Thief Gang. This gang is specifically rape oriented.
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Nov 15, 2020 07:20
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Mrs. Dash posted:I like how they made this point but then a few years later they had multiple massive fleets worth of ships ready to fight the dominion. Starfleets shipyards must crank them out like WW2 liberty ships I mean that's kind of exactly what happened. Between Worf-359, the Klingon Civil War, the DMZ dispute, the Dominion threat, the Klingon-Cardassian War and the second Borg attack on Earth, they were cranking out ships fast to deal with a dozen problems.
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Nov 15, 2020 07:28
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with replicators and transporters it isn't strange that they could pump out ships real dang fast. the problem was crew. no shows ever really went into that, which isn't too strange considering that they stopped continuing the tng timeframe and went all in on garbage prequels instead. picard doesn't really need to be mentioned, as it is a sequel to nemesis rather than tng. of course, this was also the initial premise of the orville and they did go into it.
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Nov 15, 2020 07:40
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Mrs. Dash posted:rape gangs I'm trying to get through Season 1, Episode 7 where the crew of the Enterprise apparently has sexual intercourse with a race of people that appear to be cognitively limited. The implications are making my skin crawl. Who the gently caress thought this was a good idea?
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Nov 15, 2020 08:04
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strong argument that TNG season 1 is the worst star trek ever made. absolute miracle that season didn't kill the franchise forever
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Nov 15, 2020 08:13
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Welp, guess I gotta watch tng season 1 to be able to follow the discussion now
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Nov 15, 2020 08:28
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Grand Fromage posted:strong argument that TNG season 1 is the worst star trek ever made. absolute miracle that season didn't kill the franchise forever Code of Honor is so bad and ignorant that I used to think it had to be rejected TOS script. It's not.
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Nov 15, 2020 08:46
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You gotta remember that, as bad as TNG Season 1 was, the state of American TV in 1987 was so bad that it was still the best [only?] dramatic science fiction series on television here. Excepting some cable anthology shows like Ray Bradbury Theater, and fantasy/horror stuff like Tales from the Darkside or The Hitchhiker.
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Nov 15, 2020 09:00
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sweet geek swag posted:The treaty I am talking about with Picard was a complete renegotiation of the Cardassian treaty. Yes, I understand you are claiming this but it doesn't actually happen. You should watch the episode again. Picard: "Anthwara, I want to be absolutely sure that you understand the implications of this agreement. By giving up your status as Federation Citizens, any future request you or your people make to starfleet will go unanswered. You will be on your own, and under Cardassian jurisdiction." They don't change the treaty. It was literally just that one specifically colony not getting lined up and shot offhand.
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Nov 15, 2020 09:46
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Arcsquad12 posted:The Federation also cut a really bad deal with Cardassia because they were reeling from Wolf-359 and didn't have the firepower needed to back up their negotiations. It was quick and it was messy and it left a lot of citizens in the DMZ out in the cold. Weeeeeell it's heavily implied that if they actually went to war properly they'd have trounced the Cardassians, and even after all those things happening they probably would've been able to do it, but they would've had to convert to a war footing and they weren't willing to do that.
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Nov 15, 2020 10:25
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tango alpha delta posted:I'm trying to get through Season 1, Episode 7 where the crew of the Enterprise apparently has sexual intercourse with a race of people that appear to be cognitively limited. The implications are making my skin crawl. Who the gently caress thought this was a good idea? I don't remember any sexual intercourse in Lonely Among Us, just hokey alien costumes.
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Nov 15, 2020 11:21
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Arcsquad12 posted:Worf-359
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Nov 15, 2020 11:42
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TNG's first season was clunky and stupid and ignorant in places but it's not worse than Discovery's first year (at least) or all of Picard, and as pointed out it was effectively the only real game in town at the time and ended up heavily influencing the genre on tv for the next decade. Today's Trek shows are trash tier compared to many of their contemporaries even after multiple seasons and showrunners, and in 20 years I can't imagine anyone will give a poo poo about them except for the kind of nerds that will still be 3d printing reproduction eaglemoss ships from the their parents' basement in the ruins of a north american suburb during full on ecological collapse
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Nov 15, 2020 13:09
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Clark Nova posted:They could've gotten off at the Amelia Earhart planet. They could've set up a a potato-farming colony in kazon territory, to keep the marquis spirit alive. They could've hijacked the threshold shuttlecraft, stocked it with the threshold antidote, and gotten back to the alpha quadrant in time to be genocided by the jem'hadar gimme the GOD drat candy posted:with replicators and transporters it isn't strange that they could pump out ships real dang fast. the problem was crew. no shows ever really went into that, which isn't too strange considering that they stopped continuing the tng timeframe and went all in on garbage prequels instead. picard doesn't really need to be mentioned, as it is a sequel to nemesis rather than tng. Also, while a lot of ships were lost, there wasn't always a corresponding loss of 100% of the crews. So there's probably a lot of crew who've had at least one ship shot from under them (see: Sisko, Benjamin).
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Nov 15, 2020 13:31
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I think Star Trek online, or at least an older expansion, has your character jump into the captain's chair as an ensign because the federation is at war and they've got more ships than captains.
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Nov 15, 2020 14:29
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Grand Fromage posted:strong argument that TNG season 1 is the worst star trek ever made. absolute miracle that season didn't kill the franchise forever The first third of the season or so is truly bad, but after that it does improve a lot.
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Nov 15, 2020 15:41
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