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jackofarcades
Sep 2, 2011

Okay, I'll admit it took me a bit to get into it... But I think I kinda love this!! I'm Spider-Man!! I'm actually Spider-Man!! HA!

BiggerBoat posted:

The more I think on it though, I'm kinda buying into it. It's kind of nice knowing exactly where to go when I want to sell poo poo, upgrade my gear or spend some souls and the fast travel from the get go is pretty great and cuts down on the repetitious backtracking. I think I complained prematurely.

Another thing I like about DS3 over DS1 is that smashing poo poo actually occasionally does something. I got into the habit of busting up things just to help me keep track of areas I've cleared and not get lost but I've also found a lot of items and passages. Speaking of passages, I keep smacking suspicious walls and so far nothing. Did they do away with illusory walls?

Sorry to keep posting DS poo poo. I'd do it in the Elden Ring thread but anything I write there will get lost in the fog.

just wanna say I caught up to this thread over the past couple of days and reading your posts was fun because I'm doing the same thing right now - did DS1 and DS3, will hit bloodborne next before moving onto Elden Ring

I also mostly gave up on parrying because I couldn't quite get the timing down. I just parked my rear end behind a greatshield.

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LIVE AMMO COSPLAY
Feb 3, 2006

The Wicked ZOGA posted:

how can the game be good if the controls and level design are not

Sonic Generations can be pretty fun because most of the levels actually work (as long as you keep moving). There are some stinkers though and if you slow down it isn't so fun.

Some levels are even designed to be slow which is a real bad idea.

LIVE AMMO COSPLAY
Feb 3, 2006

I know people complain about Sonic games being really short but jeez that Colors level was a drag.

Szurumbur
Feb 17, 2011
A general Dark Souls complaint I have is that the stat menu does not actually explain much. True, you can see what stats are raised with what attribute, and there's a little help text to see. But I don't think it actually offers anything I could't see just because of a the stat's name, and what it doesn't say is equally - if not more - important. The most prominent example is ADP and Agility stat from Dark Souls 2, but in the Dark Souls 3 I've no idea what the number for my resistances or Item Discovery actually mean - it seems self evident that the higher they are, the better, but what's the actual relation. I've a 160 Item Discovery with a ring, and can boost it to 260 with the Symbol of Avarice - is that almost doubling my chances? Getting additional percentages? I dunno. Resistances go into hundres, so obviously it's not a percentage value - or is it?

The items sometimes boost some things, but don't tell how, exactly. Chloranthy (?spellling?) Ring raises the Stamina Recovery, but it doesn't say how much - from a guide I learned it's 4 points per second, which is not nothing but also not spectacular. Percentage based increase I can gleam from the stat themselves.

At least I can tell the damage absorption from the armour seem to be percentage-based, since the circlet that raises the magic attack gives a flat -30 absorption to magic.

I know that there are guides available - but the stat menu is kind of a mess that is giving me too much and too little info at the same time.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

LIVE AMMO COSPLAY posted:

Sonic Generations can be pretty fun because most of the levels actually work (as long as you keep moving). There are some stinkers though and if you slow down it isn't so fun.

Some levels are even designed to be slow which is a real bad idea.

The problem with Sonic is that by nature of the game, the good parts are really quick and the bad parts take ages.

Montague Tigg
Mar 23, 2008

Previously, on "Ronnie Likes Data":

credburn posted:

Walking Sonic around feels like he's always on goddamn ice.

this is true of every sonic game ever made

even Sonic Spinball

jjack229
Feb 14, 2008
Articulate your needs. I'm here to listen.

Szurumbur posted:

A general Dark Souls complaint I have is that the stat menu does not actually explain much. True, you can see what stats are raised with what attribute, and there's a little help text to see. But I don't think it actually offers anything I could't see just because of a the stat's name, and what it doesn't say is equally - if not more - important. The most prominent example is ADP and Agility stat from Dark Souls 2, but in the Dark Souls 3 I've no idea what the number for my resistances or Item Discovery actually mean - it seems self evident that the higher they are, the better, but what's the actual relation. I've a 160 Item Discovery with a ring, and can boost it to 260 with the Symbol of Avarice - is that almost doubling my chances? Getting additional percentages? I dunno. Resistances go into hundres, so obviously it's not a percentage value - or is it?

The items sometimes boost some things, but don't tell how, exactly. Chloranthy (?spellling?) Ring raises the Stamina Recovery, but it doesn't say how much - from a guide I learned it's 4 points per second, which is not nothing but also not spectacular. Percentage based increase I can gleam from the stat themselves.

At least I can tell the damage absorption from the armour seem to be percentage-based, since the circlet that raises the magic attack gives a flat -30 absorption to magic.

I know that there are guides available - but the stat menu is kind of a mess that is giving me too much and too little info at the same time.

I have that issue with lots of games, but especially Souls and Soulslike. Some stats are very important, some are important but only to a certain breakpoint and then a waste after that, and some stats should never be touched. It is especially bad when the game doesn't allow respeccing.

I like the idea of being able to play a game using only the in-game information, but it seems like a lot of them rely on the community leaning and documenting the mechanics.

Philippe
Aug 9, 2013

(she/her)
The most fundamental element of FROM games is when you get dropped into a sea of mechanics and being forced to figure it out on your own. It doesn't always work.

Kit Walker
Jul 10, 2010
"The Man Who Cannot Deadlift"

For the most part you don't really need to know more beyond what the menu shows. This stat gives more hp, this stat gives more stamina, this one lets you hit harder, etc. You can always check out the relevant wikis if you want more detailed info, but that alone can get you through the game

credburn
Jun 22, 2016
President, Founder of the Brent Spiner Fan Club

Montague Tigg posted:

this is true of every sonic game ever made

even Sonic Spinball

I love Sonic Spinball. Sonic Spinball gets an undue amount of hate.


The Wicked ZOGA posted:

how can the game be good if the controls and level design are not

Why do you and LIVE AMMO COSPLAY have the same avatar?

If you can manage to keep on track and not slow down, the levels feel great and well executed.

My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010

jjack229 posted:

I like the idea of being able to play a game using only the in-game information, but it seems like a lot of them rely on the community leaning and documenting the mechanics.
And that usually results in the community overshooting the target by absolute light years so any guide you can find is for the most specifically gimmicked PvP builds and follows a strict progression that holds you by the hand waaay to tightly.

Not just Souls, D&D games and the like too.

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005


Something that's always annoying is when things a character tells you in game doesn't match up with the mechanics. I was playing Cyberpunk and there's a guy who says he sells older special cyberware except it is just the regular stuff that's for sale everywhere else, just higher level. There's a similar thing in the first Dying Light where you go through a longish questline to recruit a gunsmith except when you finish he just gives you a bunch of guns and you never hear from him again.

The Wicked ZOGA
Jan 27, 2022

credburn posted:

Why do you and LIVE AMMO COSPLAY have the same avatar?

We don't know!

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Philippe posted:

The most fundamental element of FROM games is when you get dropped into a sea of mechanics and being forced to figure it out on your own. It doesn't always work.

Dark Souls 1 not explaining weight thresholds for rolls is the best example I can think of of it not explaining core mechanics.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

Doctor Spaceman posted:

Dark Souls 1 not explaining weight thresholds for rolls is the best example I can think of of it not explaining core mechanics.

Maybe this isn't as self-explanatory to people who picked classes with heavier base equipment, but I picked up pretty quickly when I put on armor and suddenly rolled slower.

Heavier rolls even have rumble feedback, which I always got a kick out of.

Kit Walker
Jul 10, 2010
"The Man Who Cannot Deadlift"

I went into DS3 blind and realized pretty quickly that the roll cutoffs are at 30% and 70%. Admittedly I already knew quick rolling and fat rolling existed, but I think I would've pieced together the connection between equip load and lovely rolls on my own fairly easily

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."
It takes a bit of loving around to work out what the thresholds are and it can be a bummer if you were hoping to use a specific piece of equipment but can't because of your current stats.

It's a basic part of the game and could easily be explained in a short tooltip.

Crowetron
Apr 29, 2009

I've beaten every Soulsbourne game without looking up soft caps or community builds or anything with a percentage attached to it and I'm a dingus with arthritis. People will tell you you need to look up wikis and poo poo to get anywhere in a Souls game, but people will tell you a lot of fake things about all sorts of video games.


As an aside, I've never gotten any sort of joint pain in my hands from a Fromsoft game, not even Sekiro, but I'm giving AC: Valhalla a second try right now and gently caress. They should never put attack inputs on shoulder buttons in a game where the combat is this button mashy. I had the same problem with the God of War reboot and AC: Odyssey, but both of those games just let you flip a switch to a different controller layout. Valhalla also lets you change inputs, but one at a time and everything is context sensitive so you have to pour over this big dumb menu for like 15 minutes and there's still overlap because you can't seem to change everything. You had the controller layouts in your last several games, what the hell?

Philippe
Aug 9, 2013

(she/her)

muscles like this! posted:

Something that's always annoying is when things a character tells you in game doesn't match up with the mechanics. I was playing Cyberpunk and there's a guy who says he sells older special cyberware except it is just the regular stuff that's for sale everywhere else, just higher level.

Oh my god I know

I did a mission for that guy where I dug up the oldest tech for him, and he rewards me with a couple regular purple hacks. What the eff blondie, gimme the weird stuff.

jackofarcades
Sep 2, 2011

Okay, I'll admit it took me a bit to get into it... But I think I kinda love this!! I'm Spider-Man!! I'm actually Spider-Man!! HA!
Oh, since there was confusion about DS3 respec-ing:

You only need ONE Pale tongue to reallocate your attributes or change your appearance. You can only do this 5 times per NG (which is where the 5 number comes in) unless you glitch it by closing the game. You get 3 free pale tongue drops in the game, the rest is either by doing PVP or farming darkwraiths for a rare drop.

What's complicated is that the pale tongue is also offered as the covenant item.

Mamkute
Sep 2, 2018
Lego DC Super-Villains: Flying is over-centralizing as it makes the vehicles unneeded.

Morpheus
Apr 18, 2008

My favourite little monsters

Mamkute posted:

Lego DC Super-Villains: Flying is over-centralizing as it makes the vehicles unneeded.

Ah the Saints' Row 4 problem.

credburn
Jun 22, 2016
President, Founder of the Brent Spiner Fan Club

Morpheus posted:

Ah the Saints' Row 4 problem.

The Saints' Row 4 solution.

Though I think it was in Just Cause 2, the first time I felt the vehicles to be just a distraction in an open world game.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.

Doctor Spaceman posted:

Dark Souls 1 not explaining weight thresholds for rolls is the best example I can think of of it not explaining core mechanics.

The whole chart/interface is a little dense and hard to parse. Other games have just as big of a stat layout but you can usually tell what the gently caress is going on with what pretty easily. I think it's a fair criticism to say that you kind of need a wiki if you want to take advantage of everything but it's also fair to say that you really don't need all of it since motherfuckers can beat the game playing naked with a set of nail clippers and a tree branch.

And I take back my shots at DS3 because it's pretty great, seems to hit the sweet spot between fair and punishing and I really like being able to bail out and know where to go when it's time to go the souls bank. I'm not too far in (Big Tree Guy) but I don't get lost or have to backtrack or rerun as much.

I just said gently caress it for this one and went with a strength/tank/gently caress everyone build and it's working out well with only some minor looks at guides and walkthroughs. DS1 kicked the living christ out of me. Maybe I'm just getting the hang of it.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

Szurumbur posted:

A general Dark Souls complaint I have is that the stat menu does not actually explain much. True, you can see what stats are raised with what attribute, and there's a little help text to see. But I don't think it actually offers anything I could't see just because of a the stat's name, and what it doesn't say is equally - if not more - important. The most prominent example is ADP and Agility stat from Dark Souls 2, but in the Dark Souls 3 I've no idea what the number for my resistances or Item Discovery actually mean - it seems self evident that the higher they are, the better, but what's the actual relation. I've a 160 Item Discovery with a ring, and can boost it to 260 with the Symbol of Avarice - is that almost doubling my chances? Getting additional percentages? I dunno. Resistances go into hundres, so obviously it's not a percentage value - or is it?

The items sometimes boost some things, but don't tell how, exactly. Chloranthy (?spellling?) Ring raises the Stamina Recovery, but it doesn't say how much - from a guide I learned it's 4 points per second, which is not nothing but also not spectacular. Percentage based increase I can gleam from the stat themselves.

At least I can tell the damage absorption from the armour seem to be percentage-based, since the circlet that raises the magic attack gives a flat -30 absorption to magic.

I know that there are guides available - but the stat menu is kind of a mess that is giving me too much and too little info at the same time.

Added fun in DS3 is that the damage protection values are presented in...cripes how do I even describe it properly...a mathematically sound but inverted way to what you might assume them to be? It's been a while since I ran afoul of this so I can't really explain the specifics, just that the number you see isn't quite what you might think it is. Sorta THAC0-ish, I guess? Or maybe it was some additive/multiplicative nonsense? My memory is poo poo.

John Murdoch has a new favorite as of 02:57 on May 10, 2022

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

credburn posted:

The Saints' Row 4 solution.

Though I think it was in Just Cause 2, the first time I felt the vehicles to be just a distraction in an open world game.

Prototype. Vehicles were ammunition, not transportation.

RPATDO_LAMD
Mar 22, 2013

🐘🪠🍆

John Murdoch posted:

Added fun in DS3 is that the damage protection values are presented in...cripes how do I even describe it properly...a mathematically sound but inverted way to what you might assume them to be? It's been a while since I ran afoul of this so I can't really explain the specifics, just that the number you see isn't quite what you might think it is. Sorta THAC0-ish, I guess? Or maybe it was some additive/multiplicative nonsense? My memory is poo poo.

No, defense in ds3 is a godawful piecewise function and its effect isn't intuitive at all

quote:

- If DEF >8x ATK, deal damage equal to 0.10 * ATK
- If DEF >ATK, deal damage equal to (19.2/49 * (ATK/DEF-0.125)^ 2 +0.1) * ATK
- If DEF >0.4x ATK, deal damage equal to (-0.4/3 * (ATK/DEF-2.5)^ 2 +0.7) * ATK
- If DEF >0.125x ATK, deal damage equal to (-0.8/121 * (ATK/DEF-8)^ 2 +0.9) * ATK
- If DEF <0.125x ATK, deal damage equal to 0.90 * ATK

The basic meaningful result of this stat is "split damage sucks unless both split parts of your split damage are insanely high damage relative to the enemy def, so riposting with a chaos dagger is still cool"

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

:words: Can you show how radical the difference between attack and defense is in your Steam guide



:pseudo: gotcha

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Mamkute posted:

Lego DC Super-Villains: Flying is over-centralizing as it makes the vehicles unneeded.

Yeah Lego Marvel Superheroes has the same issues.

Kit Walker
Jul 10, 2010
"The Man Who Cannot Deadlift"

Defense values of armor in Soulsborne games never seemed to matter all that much so I just wore whatever looked cool and it was fine. The only times I picked something specific was in NG++ when some bosses had a specific elemental attack that would oneshot me, so I’d wear protective rings and armor geared against it so it would no longer kill me in one hit

Szurumbur
Feb 17, 2011
It absolutely isn't necessary to know the exact numbers to play and even finish the games - even in ADP's case you can just assume you have a worse dodge roll and plan accordingly. However, if the game gives me a value up to the third decimal point, and still does not explain how that value actually impacts the numbers, I would much prefer to just have actual formulas. And I would like it for a heavy armour - typically requiring stat investment and some forward planning - to have a very noticable impact.

Diablo III has something similar - the skill can have shortened versions and longer ones, with longer giving you all the relevant numbers, and shorter giving you a general idea.

I'd also repeat the evergreen complaint that the grab attacks do not have any kind of a special graphical effect, so I don't know if I can block, dodge (they typically track you a fair bit) or just run away - it's worsened by the fact that most of them seem to be so powerful they are a one-hit kill anyway.

Agents are GO!
Dec 29, 2004

I'm playing Metal Gear Solid V, and it's reality dragging it down, as Russian soldiers are actually competent in this game.

Leal
Oct 2, 2009

Agents are GO! posted:

I'm playing Metal Gear Solid V, and it's reality dragging it down, as Russian soldiers are actually competent in this game.

You can't use a John Deere to steal Russian tanks

Agents are GO!
Dec 29, 2004

Leal posted:

You can't use a John Deere to steal Russian tanks

But you can steal them in MGSV, just gotta upgrade your Fulton devices enough.

Necrothatcher
Mar 26, 2005




The pistol sound in Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles sucks - and you're basically hearing it the entire game

Your Gay Uncle
Feb 16, 2012

by Fluffdaddy
ADP In DS2 sucks, but at least you get tons and tons of levels in the early game. Sucks that you have to waste them getting ADP up to 25, after that you never have to touch it.

This is not explained in the game at all, luckily some psychotic Souls fan ran the numbers

moosecow333
Mar 15, 2007

Super-Duper Supermen!
Everything you can buy in Vampire Survivors costs a thousand gold minimum. While I’m sure it adds up, it’s a bit insulting for the game to be dropping money in increments of 1 and 5.

jackofarcades
Sep 2, 2011

Okay, I'll admit it took me a bit to get into it... But I think I kinda love this!! I'm Spider-Man!! I'm actually Spider-Man!! HA!
I started bloodborne on my ps5 it runs in 30 FPS. Awful

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

moosecow333 posted:

Everything you can buy in Vampire Survivors costs a thousand gold minimum. While I’m sure it adds up, it’s a bit insulting for the game to be dropping money in increments of 1 and 5.

That's just gravy tho

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Phigs
Jan 23, 2019

moosecow333 posted:

Everything you can buy in Vampire Survivors costs a thousand gold minimum. While I’m sure it adds up, it’s a bit insulting for the game to be dropping money in increments of 1 and 5.

Nah this is a legit gripe, the 1 and 5 gold drops are entirely worthless and don't even add up to anyting. You get your money from chests (80g+ each) or leveling after you've maxed out your skills (25g per). In a full run you'll be racking up thousands of gold. I don't know why they even bother with the other gold drops.

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