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Yeah, Calliope's already had her moment more or less, it was to serve as setup for alt-Calliope who'll sacrifice herself some way to defeat Lord English. Now she exists just to lead the life her alternate self never had the opportunity to, freed of their shared burden of defeating their brother. I thought there might be some last-minute subversion where Calliope takes the role of sacrificing herself to defeat Lord English and Alt-Calliope is stuck having to learn how to "live", and learns what she was like through the friends she'd made, but it looks like we'll be playing this one straight. Jade's pretty screwed and her only moment upcoming will probably be being one of the four main heroes in any last battle. Alt-Calliope's prophetic talk that a Space Player needs to wait for her moment didn't really come to fruition, unless getting punched by PM was somehow cosmically important.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:14
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Arsenic Lupin posted:You are coming down with me From the rooftops to the gutters From the ocean to the shore The warning signs have all been bright and garish And far too great in number to ignore. From the cities to the swamplands From the highways to the hills Our love has never had a leg to stand on From the aspirins to the cross-tops to the Elavils. But I will walk down to the end with you If you will come all the way down with me. From the entrance to the exit Is longer than it looks from where we stand. I want to say I'm sorry for what I haven't done yet. Things will shortly get completely out of hand. I can feel it in the rotten air tonight. In the tips of my fingers, in the skin on my face. In the weak last gasp of the evening's dying light. In the way those eyes I've always loved illuminate this place Like a trash can fire in a prison cell. Like the searchlights in the parking lots of Hell. I will walk down to the end with you If you will come all the way down with me.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:15
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is it just me or does PM's head look like a bowling ball missing a hole on the last page? the eyes are just so close together.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:16
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subpar anachronism posted:is it just me or does PM's head look like a bowling ball missing a hole on the last page? the eyes are just so close together. it's symbolism, because hussie is about to roll a real fucker of a metaphorical gutter ball with the upcoming ending
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Apr 12, 2016 19:18
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I'm sure everything will be 100% fine in tomorrow's, last ever Homestuck update.H.P. Shivcraft posted:nothing like a detailed close-up to remind you that PM is a nonhuman insectile chess person ...almost... cueball like... Nah, that was probably just a coincidence.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:19
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They've always been like that, it's just that seeing her in detailed close-up is a lot different from the abstracted style we're used to. See: It's funny to think that the only reason PM is a woman is because of the fans reading her as one, when Hussie originally intended her as a male character. Fan response has shaped Homestuck in so many subtle, little ways.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:19
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 Toxxupation posted:I find rigorous themic analysis of Homestuck to be pointless because of the fact that its reliance on cheapening its more effective moments behind the prosaic wall of irony means that there's no greater insights to be gained. You mine as well just psychoanalyze Andrew Hussie himself for all the good themic analysis will do. It's interesting that you mention this, because this is the (possibly only) aspect of this story that is unequivocally, inarguably better in Act 6 than the previous acts. In A6, we see countless examples of emotional moments that are allowed to breathe without being immediately undercut by an ironic joke: Remem8er, the alpha kids' hangover convos (that's cut short by something else, but not a joke), post GAME OVER sadness, John completing his personal quest, Dave and Dirk's conversation, and so on. I almost get the sense that at some point during A6 Hussie actually realized (or someone told him) how the irony was cheapening the narrative and he consciously strove to avoid it.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:22
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Izzhov posted:
Nearly all of this landed after GAME OVER, though, and the anticlimaxes and smirking gotcha jokes were approaching fever pitch well before then. At that point the constant hiatuses were blunting even those moments, so it was a case of too little, too late.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:24
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people really overstate the insincerity of the story, i find
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Apr 12, 2016 19:26
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I admit, when I first saw PM I assumed she was female as well. I'd have to go back and check but it might've just been a case of pattern-matching between these mysterious exiles and the humans we were following, since the humans were arranged boy-girl-boy-girl. As for influencing the comic, Homestuck started out in the grand MSPA tradition of taking reader suggestions and turning them into the next update, even if Hussie clearly had an overarching story in mind when he started. It's impressive the degree he worked reader participation into the comic and how he would react to and incorporate what the fandom was talking about, sometimes in real time. This is part of what made Homestuck so special, since experiencing it "live" isn't something people will be able to do after this. For everything else we criticize about the comic, I'm glad I was there to see the thing through from beginning to end. Edit: I also enjoy Homestuck's battle with irony and self-awareness to some extent, because they really are hard forces to fight. It's a lot easier to write a funny joke thing but if you want your story to have depth to it at some point you need to put your serious face on and deliver on impactful moments. That's actually a hard balancing act to manage without coming off like an insincere, saccharine sitcom or a clumsy teenage weirdo. I strongly sympathize with the urge to cut away and say "hah! Just kidding, bro!" when you're halfway through what should be a heartfelt moment and you start to worry that it's not landing. Dolash fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Apr 12, 2016 |
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Apr 12, 2016 19:27
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So does anyone know if we're getting another midnight release tonight?
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Apr 12, 2016 19:29
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paranoid randroid posted:people really overstate the insincerity of the story, i find See also: complaints about the retcon invalidating things
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Apr 12, 2016 19:31
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:So does anyone know if we're getting another midnight release tonight? I believe paperseverywhere mentioned they were shooting for a midnight release, yes. Bobulus posted:...almost... cueball like...  Source: someone on the /r/Homestuck discord cathead fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Apr 12, 2016 |
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Apr 12, 2016 19:31
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Dolash posted:unless getting punched by PM was somehow cosmically important. This is quite possible, if there's any truth to my post on the previous page about the Bec Battle. In any case, it's pretty interesting and unexpected that the last panel before the final update is PM. Maybe the exiles will end up not being basically pointless after all!
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Apr 12, 2016 19:32
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Remember Karkat's half (all we heard) of a lilypad conversation with the Mayor, in which Karkat promised to help build Can Town to scale? I think that means that the Mayor, at least, was planning for life in the new world. Which could be a poignant "well, it's my last day in this ol' cruiser", or could be pointing to a new planet with carapacians (Roxy has a gruntload of them in her house), humans, and trolls.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:35
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off the top of my head, some potent emotional moments, taking place before the Act 6 Cutoff, that were allowed to land and breathe without being turned into a joke include - the aftermath of Jack: Descend, with John mourning Jades apparent death and WV in shock from the destruction of the army. - everything relating to Seer: Descend and the subsequent events - Nepeta and Equius being brorails shortly before getting murdered - Terezis attempts to talk to Dave while he is... feeling however it is he felt about discovering Bros body - Vriskas conversations with John - pretty much all of the scrapbook scenes towards the end of Act 5 all but one of these occur in Act 5, but to be entirely fair Act 5 was where the story took a turn from "kids and fun" to "nobody is having fun"
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Apr 12, 2016 19:36
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Speaking of pointless--have all of the Gamzee shenanigans actually amounted to anything?
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Apr 12, 2016 19:39
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paranoid randroid posted:off the top of my head, some potent emotional moments, taking place before the Act 6 Cutoff, that were allowed to land and breathe without being turned into a joke include Yeah, I don't know if I was being unclear, but most of my complaints apply as usual to Act 6, which is when the wheels started coming off of everything. Calling it "insincere" implies a level of malice I'm not willing to ascribe to it, though.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:39
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Apr 12, 2016 19:39
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who wants to create the Official Homestuck Suicide Pact, for when homestuck ends. i have a katana so i could do a pretty good seifuku, but everyone else has to bring their own swords
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Apr 12, 2016 19:41
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The Lord of Hats posted:Speaking of pointless--have all of the Gamzee shenanigans actually amounted to anything? Uhh what shenanigans are you referring to because Gamzee has had an enormous impact on this story
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Apr 12, 2016 19:41
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Izzhov posted:
You're talking about it happening more in an act that totals more than half of the total run of the comic. And I'd be hard-pressed to argue that Act 5 still didn't do it better, since we're dealing with an explicitly alien culture with explicitly alien approaches. The atonality works there because everything is atonal, it's different than what we are used to. Homestuck's tonal issues are a direct result of Acts 1-3 boiling down to extended programmer bits and riffs on "cool" stuff leading in to Hussie trying to construct this GRAND HUGE NARRATIVE off the back of it. The entire comic was built on a foundation of shifting sand, it's no wonder it completely collapsed. I just finished reading Jonathan Hickman's Fantastic Four/FF run, which incidentally deals with most-to-all of the same themes (parental relationships, imminent omnicide, familial obligations, the cycle of death and rebirth that defines universes, the desperate attempts to escape one's own predetermined fate, what defines a consciousness) in much the same way (time travel, a MASSIVE cast of characters, an incredibly long and convoluted plot, frequent character deaths that are then undone, alternate universes). The difference why one is successful and why I'd argue that HS largely isn't is that Hickman set out to make a Grand Serious Space Opera from minute one, so established strong roots to grow a story from as opposed to trying to slap one onto a bunch of sylladex and computer shenanigans.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:42
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The only person Jade caused any physical harm to in this entire story is John.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:43
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Toxxupation posted:Homestuck's tonal issues are a direct result of Acts 1-3 boiling down to extended programmer bits and riffs on "cool" stuff leading in to Hussie trying to construct this GRAND HUGE NARRATIVE off the back of it. The entire comic was built on a foundation of shifting sand, it's no wonder it completely collapsed. This is disingenuous. Foundation for the GRAND HUGE NARRATIVE was being laid as early as the end of Act 1.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:46
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Plom Bar posted:The only person Jade caused any physical harm to in this entire story is John. 
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Apr 12, 2016 19:47
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Izzhov posted:Uhh what shenanigans are you referring to because Gamzee has had an enormous impact on this story Okay, that was bad phrasing on my part. Basically, after he culled the excess troll population, which *was* a major story beat, he just... kept cropping up. There was the whole 'horrible relationship with Terezi thing', but otherwise he just kind of showed up with Caliborn in a move that had no real explanation or payoff (yes, he's responsible for Lil Cal, except that him being responsible for that has no real impact on the story). It felt like locking him in the fridge was Hussie saying "Okay, I don't really have anything I can do with this guy at this point".
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Apr 12, 2016 19:48
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Toxxupation posted:You're talking about it happening more in an act that totals more than half of the total run of the comic. And I'd be hard-pressed to argue that Act 5 still didn't do it better, since we're dealing with an explicitly alien culture with explicitly alien approaches. The atonality works there because everything is atonal, it's different than what we are used to. See, though, the trolls aren't really that "alien," they've got a bunch of weird goofy alien trappings but underneath it all they're still dealing with very human insecurities and eccentricities. I think that layer of fictional removal is partly why Act 5 landed so well (well, that and the shipping explosion), since it made otherwise humdrum interactions more amusing and palatable because we have the weird blood caste thing or typing quirks or endless euphemisms to lend spice to Karkat's self-loathing or Eridan's social calamities or Vriska being Vriska. The Alpha Kids' issues aren't too far removed from the trolls', but the smaller remixed cast and lack of that faux-alien touch made it a little too close to Dawson Creek for my liking.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:49
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I lay corrected Filed complaint: user: gardenGnostic complaint: repeated team-killing
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Apr 12, 2016 19:49
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The Lord of Hats posted:Speaking of pointless--have all of the Gamzee shenanigans actually amounted to anything? the amount to him being a skeezy gently caress that should really just take a hike Oxxidation posted:Yeah, I don't know if I was being unclear, but most of my complaints apply as usual to Act 6, which is when the wheels started coming off of everything.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:50
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Oxxidation posted:See, though, the trolls aren't really that "alien," they've got a bunch of weird goofy alien trappings but underneath it all they're still dealing with very human insecurities and eccentricities. I think that layer of fictional removal is partly why Act 5 landed so well (well, that and the shipping explosion), since it made otherwise humdrum interactions more amusing and palatable because we have the weird blood caste thing or typing quirks or endless euphemisms to lend spice to Karkat's self-loathing or Eridan's social calamities or Vriska being Vriska. Yeah, good point. That's a more accurate expression of my argument. Izzhov posted:This is disingenuous. Foundation for the GRAND HUGE NARRATIVE was being laid as early as the end of Act 1. On a character level, yes. Plot as written? No way.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:51
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Gamzee raised the cherubs and created Arquiussprite, as well as becoming part of Lord English. He's done a lot of very important stuff!
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Apr 12, 2016 19:52
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tomorrow it ends and we'll finally be free
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Apr 12, 2016 19:53
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i think the problem a lot of people have with Act 6 is that up until that point, most of the characters only sort of acted like how old they were supposed to be, whereas in Act 6 the characters were obviously and insufferably teenagers
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Apr 12, 2016 19:54
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Final bets for who's going to land the killing blow on Lord English. Best odds are Nobody and John, worst odds is Vriska.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:54
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I'm still going with my pet theory/hope that Karkat ends up resolving the LE fight nonviolently.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:55
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I was telling Toxx about how Karkat's fight with Clover might very well be the culmination of his character arc. It's amazing how well one can convey creeping despair via text alone.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:56
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The Lord of Hats posted:Okay, that was bad phrasing on my part. Basically, after he culled the excess troll population, which *was* a major story beat, he just... kept cropping up. There was the whole 'horrible relationship with Terezi thing', but otherwise he just kind of showed up with Caliborn in a move that had no real explanation or payoff (yes, he's responsible for Lil Cal, except that him being responsible for that has no real impact on the story). It felt like locking him in the fridge was Hussie saying "Okay, I don't really have anything I can do with this guy at this point". Gamzee's main role in Act 6 was to contribute to how horrible everything is on the meteor Pre-Retcon. He becomes powerless and gets locked in a fridge post-retcon to show how the retcon improved things. His shenanigans with Caliborn I think were mostly meant for comedy value (you gotta admit Caliborn pumping him full of lead was hilarious), but he was also included there because everything he's associated with has been established to be bad and ominous, so he's worked into Caliborn's session (in a way that was only just explained in Collide, as some other people mentioned earlier) to further cement Caliborn's journey as hosed up and wrong, thematically and mechanically. So yeah, in terms of Overarching Plot poo poo, Gamzee didn't really have a major role in Act 6. His presence and actions were meant more to impart information on a thematic/tonal level.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:56
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Toxxupation posted:I'm still going with my pet theory/hope that Karkat ends up resolving the LE fight nonviolently. That would be an interesting twist, until like four weeks later when we all remember that Karkat is good at pacifying in the now, but loving terrible at the long-term.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:57
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H.P. Shivcraft posted:tomorrow it ends and we'll finally be free i hope the last flash, if there is one, is just long enough to be able to comfortably redub it with Komm Süsser Tod
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Apr 12, 2016 19:58
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Oxxidation posted:I was telling Toxx about how Karkat's fight with Clover might very well be the culmination of his character arc. Please, please, please don't ruin this for me before Homestuck has a chance to.
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Apr 12, 2016 19:58
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