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Rudeboy Detective
Apr 28, 2011


Hello fountainfriends. I am here once again to preach the Gospel of Circa (or ARC/rollabind/Magnum/whatever the walmart brand is/the poo poo at hobby lobby).

Imagine, if you will, a binder that can be folded back on itself like a regular notebook. And it gets better, my childer. This system can be customized with any paper you want and terrible accessories from dozens of terrible places. Mine is filled with HP-32lb for important notebooks and bagasse for others. Buy a $10 punch off of ebay and go to town.

Don't pay full price at Levenger to get started, though. Levenger stuff is generally high quality, but it's insanely overpriced and pretentious. Staples frequently firesales ARC stuff and rollabind products are competitively priced.

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Remora
Aug 15, 2010

I know this is slight heresy, but does anyone have experience with Retro 1951 rollerballs? I'm embarrassed to keep handing people at work cheap ballpoints instead of my fountain pens but I don't want ruined pens... so I figure investing in a few swanky rollerballs for my desk would be a nice compromise, and the Retro 1951s *look* super good. But, y'know, if they're poo poo they're poo poo and the whole idea here is not to give people lovely pens.

khamul
Jul 27, 2006
Shadow of the East

Remora posted:

I know this is slight heresy, but does anyone have experience with Retro 1951 rollerballs? I'm embarrassed to keep handing people at work cheap ballpoints instead of my fountain pens but I don't want ruined pens... so I figure investing in a few swanky rollerballs for my desk would be a nice compromise, and the Retro 1951s *look* super good. But, y'know, if they're poo poo they're poo poo and the whole idea here is not to give people lovely pens.

I have a Retro 51 and like it a lot, for stuff that is not convenient for a fountain pen to do, or to lend out to non fountain pen people. I have the Roosevelt, which has a machined brass barrel and makes it easy to keep hold of. The enameled version might be a little slick. You can always replace the refill with a different brand if you don't like the standard one it comes with. I also carry a Parker Jotter for much the same purposes.

Rocko Bonaparte
Mar 12, 2002

Every day is Friday!
After a day of use with this Lamy Safari with a 1.5mm italics nib, I used 20% of the ink on something like 4 pages. I'm not really used to that, but I was really going thick with the lines too.

grack
Jan 10, 2012

COACH TOTORO SAY REFEREE CAN BANISH WHISTLE TO LAND OF WIND AND GHOSTS!

Remora posted:

I know this is slight heresy, but does anyone have experience with Retro 1951 rollerballs? I'm embarrassed to keep handing people at work cheap ballpoints instead of my fountain pens but I don't want ruined pens... so I figure investing in a few swanky rollerballs for my desk would be a nice compromise, and the Retro 1951s *look* super good. But, y'know, if they're poo poo they're poo poo and the whole idea here is not to give people lovely pens.

I have a Parker Jotter for just this reason. Retro 51 makes some pretty cool stuff, though.

Xun
Apr 25, 2010

One of my pilot parallel 1.5mm pens feathers WAYY more than the other. It could be because they're using different inks, but this didn't use to happen? I'm using a Rhodia notepad so it's not a paper quality thing I think.

Magnus Praeda
Jul 18, 2003
The largess in the land.

Xun posted:

One of my pilot parallel 1.5mm pens feathers WAYY more than the other. It could be because they're using different inks, but this didn't use to happen? I'm using a Rhodia notepad so it's not a paper quality thing I think.

I would try a thorough cleaning with the little plastic sheet they come with and then try a different ink (use some Pilot ink if you have it) and see if the problem keeps happening.

grack
Jan 10, 2012

COACH TOTORO SAY REFEREE CAN BANISH WHISTLE TO LAND OF WIND AND GHOSTS!
Feather has to do with the ink and paper, cleaning your pen out isn't going to do anything. Paper can have slight variations in the finish, even within the same notebook.

Kerbtree
Sep 8, 2008

BAD FALCON!
LAZY!

Xun posted:

One of my pilot parallel 1.5mm pens feathers WAYY more than the other. It could be because they're using different inks, but this didn't use to happen? I'm using a Rhodia notepad so it's not a paper quality thing I think.

Do they lay down a similarly wet line with the same ink on the same paper? If ones too wet, it can be adjusted.

venus de lmao
Apr 30, 2007

Call me "pixeltits"

My Man Shran posted:

Hello fountainfriends. I am here once again to preach the Gospel of Circa (or ARC/rollabind/Magnum/whatever the walmart brand is/the poo poo at hobby lobby).

Imagine, if you will, a binder that can be folded back on itself like a regular notebook. And it gets better, my childer. This system can be customized with any paper you want and terrible accessories from dozens of terrible places. Mine is filled with HP-32lb for important notebooks and bagasse for others. Buy a $10 punch off of ebay and go to town.

Don't pay full price at Levenger to get started, though. Levenger stuff is generally high quality, but it's insanely overpriced and pretentious. Staples frequently firesales ARC stuff and rollabind products are competitively priced.

It looks like I can find a Levenger Desk Punch for $19 on eBay, and Staples wants $48 for their Arc punch. Granted, I work at Staples, so I'd probably use my discount to get the disks and so forth but there's no loving way I'm dropping $48 on a punch.

grack
Jan 10, 2012

COACH TOTORO SAY REFEREE CAN BANISH WHISTLE TO LAND OF WIND AND GHOSTS!
Or just spend $3 on a bunch of book rings and a pack of dividers from staples

Magnus Praeda
Jul 18, 2003
The largess in the land.

Bertrand Hustle posted:

It looks like I can find a Levenger Desk Punch for $19 on eBay, and Staples wants $48 for their Arc punch. Granted, I work at Staples, so I'd probably use my discount to get the disks and so forth but there's no loving way I'm dropping $48 on a punch.

I got my Arc punch at, of all places, Goodwill for like $5. It's been pretty awesomely handy. I would say it'd be worth the $19 for the Levenger.

$48 is loving laughable, though. I didn't know that's what they were asking for them.

Alder
Sep 24, 2013


Anyone own a Conid Bulkfiller? http://www.pencilcaseblog.com/2016/02/conid-minimalistica-fountain-pen-review.html

It's so fancy and expensive :v:

kim jong-illin
May 2, 2011
Looks like a knock-off of a TWSBI Diamond 580 and a Lamy 2000. Not sure a fancy filling mechanism makes it worth the price premium over both of those put together either.

Kessel
Mar 6, 2007

350 euros is 42,948 Japanese yen.

A Custom 823 from Pilot has plunger fill, a giant gold nib (instead of a #6 Bock steel nib) and costs only 30,000 yen plus tax. The Conid isn't even close to being good value.

suck my woke dick
Oct 10, 2012

:siren:I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!:siren:

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!
It really seems to be a pointless pen when you could just get a TWSBI 700 with a similarly oversize ink tank for $60.

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

blowfish posted:

It really seems to be a pointless pen when you could just get a TWSBI 700 with a similarly oversize ink tank for $60.

which describes most fountain pens, to be fair.

Everything Burrito
Jun 2, 2011

I Failed At Anime 2022
If I'm gonna end up with a pen with a basic steel nib why would I want to spend hundreds of dollars. Ink capacity is overrrated IMO, just carry some means to refill if you actually write that much. I'd be way more concerned with the part that's actually touching the paper and affecting how it writes.

grack
Jan 10, 2012

COACH TOTORO SAY REFEREE CAN BANISH WHISTLE TO LAND OF WIND AND GHOSTS!
It's interesting and fairly unique. Let's be honest here - people spend more money on less interesting pens for stupider reasons.

NeurosisHead
Jul 22, 2007

NONONONONONONONONO

grack posted:

It's interesting and fairly unique. Let's be honest here - people spend more money on less interesting pens for stupider reasons.

Yeah, and within the spectrum of this hobby, those unique things are what create the value. It's why Visconti is charging so much for a crescent filler with basically a steel nib in it, or why Edison can charge so much for pneumatic and button fillers with steel nibs. There's the utilitarian types, which is great and awesome, and there's the luxury and oddball collector whales. Conid is definitely targeting the later demographic.

grack
Jan 10, 2012

COACH TOTORO SAY REFEREE CAN BANISH WHISTLE TO LAND OF WIND AND GHOSTS!
It's why Visconti can charge a poo poo-ton of money for pens that don't write half the time.

Rudeboy Detective
Apr 28, 2011


Kessel posted:

350 euros is 42,948 Japanese yen.

A Custom 823 from Pilot has plunger fill, a giant gold nib (instead of a #6 Bock steel nib) and costs only 30,000 yen plus tax. The Conid isn't even close to being good value.

B-b-b-but it has a different kind of plunger fill.

Brought to you by fountainbel, makers of those lovely Sheaffer vac-fill repair kits that fail after three uses.

severina
Apr 13, 2003
fnord
I finally pressed butan on a Nakaya Naka-Ai Milky Way Raden. Now to wait 3-6 or more months because some hatori hanzo-like pensmith is making it for me.

I've been collecting fountain pens since 2000 or so, with most of my collection being Japanese with the exception of a few Watermans I liked and one Montblanc Homage a WA Mozart.

As far as paper I recently discovered Tomoe River. I had been a diehard Rhodia fanatic for years and recently added the Maruman Mnemosyne notebooks to my rotation. As soon as I learned that Nanami Paper binds 240 pages of Tomoe River into a writing journal style, I purchased 2 of them, and one Crossfield, which is their grid paper bound in a journal. One of the writers is now my work notebook, and i've divided it up with sticky tabs because adhd.


rip me for buying a Nakaya, but welp.

severina fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Apr 18, 2016

Noctis Horrendae
Nov 1, 2013
How's the Visconti Homo sapiens?

Kessel
Mar 6, 2007

severina posted:

I finally pressed butan on a Nakaya Naka-Ai Milky Way Raden. Now to wait 3-6 or more months because some hatori hanzo-like pensmith is making it for me.

I've been collecting fountain pens since 2000 or so, with most of my collection being Japanese with the exception of a few Watermans I liked and one Montblanc Homage a WA Mozart.

As far as paper I recently discovered Tomoe River. I had been a diehard Rhodia fanatic for years and recently added the Maruman Mnemosyne notebooks to my rotation. As soon as I learned that Nanami Paper binds 240 pages of Tomoe River into a writing journal style, I purchased 2 of them, and one Crossfield, which is their grid paper bound in a journal. One of the writers is now my work notebook, and i've divided it up with sticky tabs because adhd.


rip me for buying a Nakaya, but welp.

The Nakaya raden pieces are all very, very nice. You made a good choice.

Noctis Horrendae posted:

How's the Visconti Homo sapiens?

Nib is nice, ink capacity is shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitttttttttt (it's ostensibly a vacuum filler but only holds around 0.8, and the nib is such a gusher even at EF that the pen runs out of ink quickly), lava material sounds gimmicky but is great to hold

Also visconti didn't really think it through when making the section out of the lava material, either - it takes in ink when you fill, so if you wipe it with a wet tissue ink comes out. only way to stop this is to wet the section with water before filling so that it's already loaded and can't absorb anything, which is dumb and stupid

Everything Burrito
Jun 2, 2011

I Failed At Anime 2022

Kessel posted:

Also visconti didn't really think it through when making the section out of the lava material, either - it takes in ink when you fill, so if you wipe it with a wet tissue ink comes out. only way to stop this is to wet the section with water before filling so that it's already loaded and can't absorb anything, which is dumb and stupid

That's hilarious. Also apparently the material being absorbent like that is intended to soak up sweat off your hands? I'm kinda grossed out just thinking about what kind of sweaty paws you'd need to have for that to be a positive feature :barf:

grack
Jan 10, 2012

COACH TOTORO SAY REFEREE CAN BANISH WHISTLE TO LAND OF WIND AND GHOSTS!

Everything Burrito posted:

That's hilarious. Also apparently the material being absorbent like that is intended to soak up sweat off your hands? I'm kinda grossed out just thinking about what kind of sweaty paws you'd need to have for that to be a positive feature :barf:

Truly, a fountain pen made for goons.

Kessel
Mar 6, 2007

Also grack isn't joking when he talks about Visconti's quality control being spectacular(ly poo poo).

suck my woke dick
Oct 10, 2012

:siren:I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!:siren:

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

Kessel posted:

Also grack isn't joking when he talks about Visconti's quality control being spectacular(ly poo poo).

Conclusion, RIP Omas, it's Visconti that should have gone under?

grack
Jan 10, 2012

COACH TOTORO SAY REFEREE CAN BANISH WHISTLE TO LAND OF WIND AND GHOSTS!
True story - couple of months ago at one of the local pen club meetings someone brought in a Visconti Opera Roadster with a tubular steel stub nib. Inked it up, first 5 words were awesome, smooth, really nice. Then a big blob of ink fell out of the feed. Then it stopped writing completely and the owner had to tap it on the writing pad four or five times for it to start writing again.

A $650 pen (more locally since the Canadian exchange rate is poo poo) and it can't write more than 5 words before literally making GBS threads itself. There's a reason Italian pen companies seem to be in trouble these days.



Also, putting an untipped, stainless steel stub nib on a pen that expensive should be a crime, and a serious one at that.

Kessel
Mar 6, 2007

blowfish posted:

Conclusion, RIP Omas, it's Visconti that should have gone under?

It won't be long now. Someone on FPN went and looked at all the financials of the Italian pen companies after Omas died (thanks, Italian public records!) and discovered that Visconti was only making something along the lines of 50,000 EUR profit per year despite its size.

Like, you could probably open a single, tiny, reasonably successful bubble tea stand and get more profit than that. Or hell, a single person working a not-poo poo job could make more.

inklesspen
Oct 17, 2007

Here I am coming, with the good news of me, and you hate it. You can think only of the bell and how much I have it, and you are never the goose. I will run around with my bell as much as I want and you will make despair.
Buglord

My Man Shran posted:

Hello fountainfriends. I am here once again to preach the Gospel of Circa (or ARC/rollabind/Magnum/whatever the walmart brand is/the poo poo at hobby lobby).

You post this and ask us to imagine stuff when you could just as easily post pics.

FAUXTON
Jun 2, 2005

spero che tu stia bene

Kessel posted:

It won't be long now. Someone on FPN went and looked at all the financials of the Italian pen companies after Omas died (thanks, Italian public records!) and discovered that Visconti was only making something along the lines of 50,000 EUR profit per year despite its size.

Like, you could probably open a single, tiny, reasonably successful bubble tea stand and get more profit than that. Or hell, a single person working a not-poo poo job could make more.

:neckbeard: I work a not-poo poo job finally.

Also, I should start looking for a new ink for notes.

Remora
Aug 15, 2010

severina posted:

I finally pressed butan on a Nakaya Naka-Ai Milky Way Raden. Now to wait 3-6 or more months because some hatori hanzo-like pensmith is making it for me.

I pulled the trigger on a Scriptorium, so I understand your pain. It's gonna be so worth it when it gets here though.

suck my woke dick
Oct 10, 2012

:siren:I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!:siren:

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

Kessel posted:

It won't be long now. Someone on FPN went and looked at all the financials of the Italian pen companies after Omas died (thanks, Italian public records!) and discovered that Visconti was only making something along the lines of 50,000 EUR profit per year despite its size.

Like, you could probably open a single, tiny, reasonably successful bubble tea stand and get more profit than that. Or hell, a single person working a not-poo poo job could make more.

That's... extremely unprofitable. Do they only sell like a few thousand pens every year or what?


grack posted:

True story - couple of months ago at one of the local pen club meetings someone brought in a Visconti Opera Roadster with a tubular steel stub nib. Inked it up, first 5 words were awesome, smooth, really nice. Then a big blob of ink fell out of the feed. Then it stopped writing completely and the owner had to tap it on the writing pad four or five times for it to start writing again.

A $650 pen (more locally since the Canadian exchange rate is poo poo) and it can't write more than 5 words before literally making GBS threads itself. There's a reason Italian pen companies seem to be in trouble these days.



Also, putting an untipped, stainless steel stub nib on a pen that expensive should be a crime, and a serious one at that.

That sounds like an extremely lovely pen intended to be a pure display piece. Perhaps some of the money spent on design and unusual materials should go into quality control instead :v:

khamul
Jul 27, 2006
Shadow of the East

Everything Burrito posted:

That's hilarious. Also apparently the material being absorbent like that is intended to soak up sweat off your hands? I'm kinda grossed out just thinking about what kind of sweaty paws you'd need to have for that to be a positive feature :barf:

Goulet mentioned this pen in the last Q and A. He said that the company spent a lot of effort in R&D to blend the ground-up volcanic rock with resin to remove its troublesome absorbent quality. My immediate reaction was "what's the point"? I mean, first you ground the rock into dust, so it's unrecognizable, and then mix it with resins until its probably more resin than rock. Then you pour it into the shape of your fountain pen barrel. There's no point for the end customer but to brag that their pen was once part of a volcano. Which is about as impressive as stating that I was once part of a star, or interstellar dust at one point in the remote past: it means nothing.

severina
Apr 13, 2003
fnord

Remora posted:

I pulled the trigger on a Scriptorium, so I understand your pain. It's gonna be so worth it when it gets here though.

Classic Fountain Pens invoice today: "You need to be aware that we do not stock these pens, and since they are custom made you will be waiting 3-5 months or more until we receive it for tuning."

Worst case, it gets here slightly before my birthday in November. I ain't even mad. :shibe:

atholbrose
Feb 28, 2001

Splish!

severina posted:

Classic Fountain Pens invoice today: "You need to be aware that we do not stock these pens, and since they are custom made you will be waiting 3-5 months or more until we receive it for tuning."
Worst case, it gets here slightly before my birthday in November. I ain't even mad. :shibe:

I'm seriously jealous. That's a gorgeous pen. What kind of nib did you ask for?

Kessel
Mar 6, 2007

blowfish posted:

That's... extremely unprofitable. Do they only sell like a few thousand pens every year or what?

I found the relevant post. http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/299906-difficulties-at-omas-in-bologna/page-8

Here, he researches Omas's financials. I've bolded the relevant bits.

quote:

Since I had some spare time (Lunar new year...), I downloaded Omas latest published financial statements (you need to access an Italian government website and pay a fee). Quite interesting reading. I can share this information since it is not confidential in any way, it is a public record according to Italian company law. The latest available financial statements refer to 2014.

1) Turnover/revenues was 1,278,000 euro down from 2,258,000 in 2013. A staggering decline.

2) Net income was negative. The loss posted in 2014 was 669,000 euro up from 436,000 in 2013.

3) With 22 employees the costs of personnel were around 1 million euro in 2014 (remember high taxation and social security costs in Italy), plus half a million in other external services/consultancy (probably including also some advertising). Raw material was a mere 300,000 euro. Given the tiny size of the structure, I would say that personnel costs were basically compressed down to the limit. The staff included 6 factory workers and 14 white collars. We know that this number is today even lower.

4) The company is virtually debt free. No debt with banks (basically zero!) and just normal commercial debts toward suppliers that are balanced by the commercial credits. The balance sheet is clean and could count on 5 million euro provided by O Luxe through one of its fiduciary companies.

5) In 2014 there were around 200,000 euro in investments to build up the ecommerce and to introduce new productio techniques (namely marble, I guess for the Michelangelo limited edition).

According to these data, that I do not think changed considerably in 2015, Omas has been a declining and dying company for years and apparently has reached the bottom.

The real problem with a company like Omas is the fixed costs. No matter what you do, it is difficult to go below 1.5 million euro in costs when running a company with a factory and 20ish employees. You cannot cut costs, but Omas seemed to be unable to raise its revenues. My estimate is that the company in 2014 sold no more than 4000 pens worldwide. With these numbers it is impossible to maintain a global distribution network and a factory, you can only have a workshop (Edison Pen Company style...).

The balance sheet also sheds some light on the "value" of Omas. Of course there are so many valuation systems, but let's just focus on the main hard assets:
Omas owns its factory with a value of 2 million euro
Other 1.3 million euro is the historic value (before amortizations) of the machinery
Inventory: 3.3 millions euro in raw material and finished and semi-finished products (a lot of pens!!!)
There are also around 2 millions in historic value for what I believe is display cabinets and other merchandising material provided to stores and distributors. This money is amortized in the balance sheet and I discount it since it would probably need to be renewed in the near future (the big investment was made by LVMH management in 2005).
So we are speaking of just 6.6 millions for just the scrap value of the hard assets, then you can imagine O Luxe that wants to be paid back for all the previous investments. 10 million euro anyone?
Interestingly, the value of the goodwill (that would include the brand) is not made explicit in the balance sheet (this is an accounting choice, so we have no benchmark to determine its value).

Now, with 10 millions you buy a dying company... to reverse its destiny you would probably need other 5 millions in investments. I do not think there are many people with this kind of money ready to take the risk.

I am very sorry since Omas is my favorite brand and I am a big fan.

And then in the next post, Visconti:

quote:

A quick follow up. To put things in perspective I also accessed Visconti financial statements. In 2014 Visconti posted 5.4 million euro revenues (slightly down from 2015). Their cost for personnel was just 30% higher than Omas. The net result was a mere 50,000 euro (basically the company is just breaking even). 1 million revenues came from Italy, 1 million from other European Union countries and the rest from extra EU countries. Omas revenues were distributed in a similar fashion (with a mere 230,000 euro coming from Italy). Also worth noting that raw materials accounted for 2 millions in Visconti's income statement, II guess reflecting their high end production with gold and diamond.

These patterns are hardly surprising, most small and medium Italian enterprises are under-capitalized and lack investments in marketing and R&D.

To reiterate, that means only a whopping 0.9 per cent of Visconti's revenue is profit.

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howe_sam
Mar 7, 2013

Creepy little garbage eaters

This doesn't change the fact that I think those Homo Sapiens Florentine Hills demonstrators are drop dead gorgeous, and I'd love to own one. No way in hell I'd pay full freight for it though.

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