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re: My Theremax As I think more about it, I believe there were two electronic issues, and two human issues. Several of the potentiometers were really noisy so volume/pitch settings didn't scale smoothly with the knob position. Also the pot that changed the waveform appeared to not do anything (though I don't know if that was a wiring issue or just a non-functional potentiometer). The human issues are that I don't have much aptitude in electronics, and I tend to change hobbies quickly, so I never got close to troubleshooting/repairing/learning to play. That's why I'm hoping to have more luck with the kantele, five notes and three chords seem like something that may be more my thing. I'm really interested in the bowed psaltery, as well, but that will be on the 'for the future' list.
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May 11, 2012 02:12
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Placeholder posted:I hope you don't mind if I post a short tune I just recorded on my mobile. It's a polska from a little place called Hälleforsnäs. I want to play nyckelharpa now. That's pretty awesome.
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May 11, 2012 02:14
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:How do any of these ring for you? Those all sound neat. I'm thinking a dulcimer over a steel guitar - it seems more portable (I tend to do a lot of backpacking and traveling) -- I'm interested in traditional music(s) and was thinking either a dulcimer or a bodhran (bowrain,bodrain,bowran,etc) In the long run -- something along those lines. Something smallish, reasonably easy to set up, acoustic over electric... I've got great dexterity, enough to cover holes on a tinwhistle and ocarina, its just complex positions and lots of pressure make my the last joint on my ring finger bend the wrong way -- Maybe something that doesn't require a lot of pressure on the finger would be great. I'll continue to do research on the dulcimer though, that could be neat. Edit: The saxon Lyre linked within the first half-dozen pages looks like a neat instrument, but is there much documentation/practicality for something like that? LordAdakos fucked around with this message at 02:34 on May 11, 2012 |
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May 11, 2012 02:30
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I play guitar as my main instrument, but ever since listening to Robert Hollingworth's musical adaptations of Shakespeare's sonnets I've been thinking about learning another stringed instrument for a more traditional sound. I'm thinking a lute would be the closest example, am I right there? Or is there another similar instrument?
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May 11, 2012 03:32
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Just wanted to thank you for this thread. I got a piano accordion and a couple of tin-whistles partially because it. 
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May 11, 2012 06:11
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quote:I've not played an instrument since Jr. High Band (marimba, 22 years ago), but you got me to try something new. Just ordered a Clarke Tin Whistle, and am going to pull the trigger on a five-string kantele if the order time isn't too long. Have a family reunion with a medieval theme in July, so I'm hoping the wife and I can perform some folk tunes. I've been subtly pushing 5-string kantele, and it's really a beautiful instrument. Minimal strings gives you a certain freedom, and honestly it's the "limitations" that define the sound and style of most traditional instruments. If you're American, I'd contact Gerry Henkel ASAP and let him know your timeline, see if he has any off-the-shelf, or at least a short timeline. Failing that, there are a few other makes that turn up on eBay that are only slightly more expensive, but if he has them on hand I'd go Henkel just to support the scene, plus the guy is America's kantele guru. Also check out the couple books we mention early in the thread; it sucks to buy a $30 book, but they seem pretty comprehensive, though I'm sure Henkel's free book is fine to start with. Note that kantele can only manage a few chords in any given tuning, but can be tuned dozens of ways, so it's easy to switch up tuning between songs. If you ever have a need to be able to re-tune faster, they even make levers, harp style, for rapid retunes on kantele. My impression is that most of the famous kantelists play these massive 30+ string kanteles, but I have a real soft spot for the minimalist ones, plus much more attestably old-school for medieval music. If being hardcore "period" is important to you, at some point you could check around about getting wooden tuning pegs for a 5-string. Definitely let us know if you get a kantele, as you'd be the first, though one goon has been fixing to buy one since the thread started. As a minor sidenote, the kantele is almost assuredly medieval, if not all the way back to the Dark Ages or earlier. The bowed psaltery dates back to about 1920, so you can enjoy it as an instrument , but don't make the RenFaire mistake of assuming it's Ye Olde and all. quote:Just wanted to thank you for this thread. I got a piano accordion and a couple of tin-whistles partially because it. Awesome! What make of accordion, have you deciphered the key settup (how many piano keys, how many basses)? quote:I play guitar as my main instrument, but ever since listening to Robert Hollingworth's musical adaptations of Shakespeare's sonnets I've been thinking about learning another stringed instrument for a more traditional sound. I'm thinking a lute would be the closest example, am I right there? Or is there another similar instrument? With some brief googling, it appears Hollingsworth heads up a consort, which does include lute, and presumably as the rockstar instrument of the Elizabethan world that's what you have in mind. I've read "what lute for a beginner?" threads in the past but can't recall the exact details, but suffice to say a little googling would turn up some lute advice. Standard reminder not to buy random generic lutes on eBay, etc. unless you've heard good things about that make. Lute is stylistically played somewhat different from guitar, but generally the skills cross over. I glanced at the Wiki page on Elizabethan instruments to make sure I was right: one less-known instrument of the period was the cittern, basically something between a modern octave mandolin and a twelve-string guitar. Not to be confused with the modern "cittern" which is basically an expanded octave-mandolin. There are a variety of Spanish and Latin American string instruments that are descendants of the English cittern and its relatives, and are relatively affordable. I can track down some Latin ones later, but in the short term take a look at the "Portuguese guitar", which is basically a 1700s version of the English cittern which survives to this day in Portugal.  Portuguese guitar, note the "watchkey" tuners that have died off on every instrument except this family. Nothing at all wrong with lute, but cittern is also Elizabethan, and, going out a bit on a limb here, I'm under the vague impression that cittern was a slightly more lower-class instrument of less prestige, so kind of an earthier way to angle at the same topic. Just depends whether you want something more recognisably Elizabethan and with nylon strings (lute), or a bit weirder and steel strings (cittern). In either case the playing would be pretty similar, and both easy transitions for a guitarist. This has been a pretty cool question. LordAdakos posted:Those all sound neat. I'm thinking a dulcimer over a steel guitar - it seems more portable (I tend to do a lot of backpacking and traveling) -- I'm interested in traditional music(s) and was thinking either a dulcimer or a bodhran (bowrain,bodrain,bowran,etc) In the long run -- something along those lines. Something smallish, reasonably easy to set up, acoustic over electric... For the technique that requires least finger action, check YouTube for "dulcimer noter", also a good way to see the old-school styles. Thanks for the tinwhistle details; I'd read online of Irishmen with missing/damaged fingers who would just shift to two on one hand, four on the other, to compensate, so was about to ask. But apparently you have the motion to play standard fingerings. So far as bodhran, I'm not a bodhran expert, but bodhran does require some left hand usage to press the skin from behind. Not that it necessarily needs all the fingers, or high dexterity of them, but it's not left-hand-free. I'd read up on it a bit to make sure you're down with the ergonomics. I'd note further, if you get a bodhran get one reasonably full-size, as the smaller ones don't necessarily scale down well, especially for a beginner. Also get a decent one, as there's a lot of Pakistan-made junk with Guinness logos stamped on it sold in tourist shops that aren't necessarily conducive players, and you can find perfectly decent players for moderate price. Last point, and this one surprised me since apparently a lot has changed in the 15 years since I started looking at bodhran: apparently as the style has developed explosively, the previously ominpresent cross-bar strut has lessened in popularity, so do the reading as to whether cross, single, or strut-less is your thing. I think it's mostly The Session that's the online forum for bodhran these days. Really fun drum, only downside being that you want to have some decent chops before calling yourself a bodhran player. Don't just be the wanker who idly shows up hammering away with no technique, an unfortunate stereotype of session bodhranists. It's capable of quite a lot of subtelty and complex rhythms, so a bit more involved than the average stick-drum. quote:Edit: The saxon Lyre linked within the first half-dozen pages looks like a neat instrument, but is there much documentation/practicality for something like that? We had a lyre megapost maybe 2-4 pages back which covers Saxon lyre in more depth. What are you meaning by "documentation" and "portability"? So far as historical attestation, most AS lyres made today are literally reproductions of ones dug out of medieval graves, so we're reasonably certain of the form. The tuning and playing techniques are based on some pretty reasonable guesses and some medieval illuminations, so it's not 100%, but there's a reasonable scholarly consensus on the basics, so you do have scholar like Benjamin Bagby doing historically informed performance on the AS lyre. So far as practicality: lyres are reasonably durable, and about 2.5'x1.5' or so. Feel free to clarify the questions if I read them wrong. If specifically Saxon or Germanic music isn't necessarily your priority, note that the Finnish kantele (which has Russian, Baltic, and Scandinavian relatives) noted in the OP and earlier on this page is similar in concept, but less expensive, a bit sturdier, and having one string less is even less likely to any compromise from finger issues. There's also the Russian gusli (plucked, not to be confused with the bowed Balkan gusle), which about splits the difference between the two, and I need to do a post on that, but in the short term I'll have to defer to Google and Youtube for gusli. TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 04:09 on May 17, 2012 |
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May 11, 2012 09:35
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Hey guys, basically I want another instrument that can be played in addition to my tinwhistle by a friend to jam together without requiring my friend to spend hours a day learning a new instrument, so I guess just something else in D (I've no idea what major/minor/soprano/etc mean, I'm bad with theory) an octave down from my D oak tinwhistle that he can play without much practice that'll sound good. Preferably cheap, but I'll spend around $50-60 at the most, or possibly more if it's something really outstanding. I found an ocarina in D on a site for handmade ocarinas, would that work? Thanks, guys! Also, I'm thinking about getting a Melodica from amazon some time soon. TapTheForwardAssist is making me spend all my disposable income on musical instruments!
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May 11, 2012 09:56
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Lavender Philtrum posted:Hey guys, basically I want another instrument that can be played in addition to my tinwhistle by a friend to jam together without requiring my friend to spend hours a day learning a new instrument, so I guess just something else in D (I've no idea what major/minor/soprano/etc mean, I'm bad with theory) an octave down from my D oak tinwhistle that he can play without much practice that'll sound good. The ocarina you link is a soprano, which should put it in the same octave (or higher) than your tinwhistle, not one lower. The most related instruments (using the exact same fingering, actually) an octave lower than the tinwhistle are the low whistle and the Irish flute. You can make a low whistle out of PVC (various plans online) if you're good with a small knife and such tools, or you might be able to find one used on Chiif & Fipple forum's sales ads (must be logged in to see them) for maybe as low as $60 on a good day. Most Irish flutes worth buying (don't buy a generic Pakistani-made one) are at least a couple hundred, exceptions being a few good-quality PVC flutes mentioned in the Irish flute megapost in this thread, and the bamboo flutes by Eric the Flutemaker (at least one goon has one of his). Just make sure you get the low-D one if the octave thing is crucial to you. A bit of an odd but cheap and cool choice, and would be more for providing harmony than for playing the same tune alongside, would be to make a large overtone flute from PVC. Again, many plans online, including a YouTube tutorial on how to make one in about 10 minutes with a piece of PVC and an X-acto knife. You could make it in whatever pitch you want to provide harmonising notes, and maybe give it one fingerhole to be able to raise it between D and E as needed for minor-key songs. Failing those, a cardboard dulcimer is about right in your budget, and then just tune it in D and use a homemade capo to go up a fret to E for any minor key songs. Thinking on it further, so far as your budget and ease of learning, dulcimer is about one of your best string options. You can also power-chord the heck out of dulcimer in DAD tuning, and with that you can back up just about anything. If rhythm is an option, scrounge around and get a large bucket lid or something to make an improvised bodhran, or get some spoons or smooth pieces of wood to play spoons/bones. Here's bones backing up flute, for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaY8sit6R30 You can buy pre-made curved wooden bones for maybe $10-20. If your friend just can't hack the technique of manipulating the two separate bones, they also sell "musical spoons", two wooden or metal spoons joined together by flexible material, and those are less versatile but easier to play. They're a bit more Quebecois than Irish, but same idea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVfJOuSTEdQ (a little into the thread the kid grabs the catspaws). So a few different ways you can go on this, though do note also you could just do tinwhistle duets with two regular D whistles, also not a bad option. This lack of access to tinypics is getting annoying, but I'll be back in the US soon. Just came in to get out of the sun and catch up on email. A few more notes to myself for future megaposts: bajos, alt singing, tonkori, lute. TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 20:53 on May 11, 2012 |
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May 11, 2012 15:26
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Awesome! What make of accordion, have you deciphered the key settup (how many piano keys, how many basses)? My girlfriend got me a used antique at a local music shop. It has no make or model listed on it but it sounds pretty good. 120 basses and a full keyboard. It only has a single switch on the treble side and no bass switch. I've been working on some beginner books and I can do some basic polkas already. I'm hoping to take a few lessons soon, too. Edit, here's some crappy iPhone pictures  
Armacham fucked around with this message at 03:13 on May 12, 2012 |
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May 11, 2012 21:51
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:I've been subtly pushing 5-string kantele, and it's really a beautiful instrument. Minimal strings gives you a certain freedom, and honestly it's the "limitations" that define the sound and style of most traditional instruments. If you're American, I'd contact Gerry Henkel ASAP and let him know your timeline, see if he has any off-the-shelf, or at least a short timeline. Failing that, there are a few other makes that turn up on eBay that are only slightly more expensive, but if he has them on hand I'd go Henkel just to support the scene, plus the guy is America's kantele guru. Also check out the couple books we mention early in the thread; it sucks to buy a $30 book, but they seem pretty comprehensive, though I'm sure Henkel's free book is fine to start with. Done and Done! It sounds like he's making them to order, and I think his wife is making the case, but I just put in the order to Gerry, and he's expecting to ship in 2-3 weeks! I'll definitely post photos and maybe a vid when it arrives!
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May 12, 2012 00:41
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Lavender Philtrum posted:Also, I'm thinking about getting a Melodica from amazon some time soon. TapTheForwardAssist is making me spend all my disposable income on musical instruments! I got a melodica this week despite my lack of ability with anything piano related. Doesn't stop me from annoying everyone and the birds with my own special arrangement of Final Countdown.
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May 12, 2012 01:22
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Thanks to this thread and the ukulele thread in the past year I have somehow acquired a tinwhistle, a ukulele, and most recently a fiddle. Unfortunately I didn't take the first two very seriously, so I am currently looking for a teacher to help me get to grips with the fiddle, since I have no idea what I am doing. Hopefully that helps me stick with it. Fiddle may not be "weird", but I blame the tinwhistle for getting me into Celtic music.
Drone Incognito fucked around with this message at 03:00 on May 12, 2012 |
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May 12, 2012 02:58
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ThirdReichNRoll posted:Anyone play the duduk? I had debated a duduk post, so I'm glad you brought it up. Have you done a bit of looking into it? Have any info on where to buy one, learning materials, etc? My impression is that it is a bit of an unusual reed to work with, but if it's something you strongly want to do I would't let that hold you back. It's a beautiful instrument, and very expressive, leading it to be used in a surprisingly large number of soundtracks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duduk#In_popular_culture . Missing from the list is one that popped to mind when you posted, so I googled it and felt smug to find I was right: in Arrested Development, the little Middle Eastern-y riff they play whenever something religious is mentioned is indeed played on duduk. If you have any more detail, some history, cool pics, buying/learning advice you want to share, that's be great to see. And I also encourage to sack up and just learn to play it. A lot of instruments are frustrating at first, but if duduk were so impossible people wouldn't have kept playing it for over a thousand years.
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May 13, 2012 10:07
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I would appreciate any extra info on it too--it sounds awesome and I've heard it in a ton of soundtracks and wondered what it was. That would be a cool thing to say I knew how to play.
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May 13, 2012 15:46
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FelicityGS posted:I would appreciate any extra info on it too--it sounds awesome and I've heard it in a ton of soundtracks and wondered what it was. That would be a cool thing to say I knew how to play. I'll give TRnR a few days to see if s/he wants to write up a larger post, but if not I'll knock some thing together.  To cover some real basics, duduks play just around an octave, but due to having a lot of flexibility in both embrochure and in partial-covering its large fingerholes, it can play chromatically and microtonally. As I understand it, this flexibility is part of what gives a bit of challenge to the initial learning, that you'll need a decent ear for pitch to nail notes right, instead of just picking a fingering and blow. Fortunately, it looks like even quality ones aren't too expensive, with a couple apparently reputable sites selling duduks by known makers for $200ish. There are a few cheapies on some other sites, but looking at the Duduk Forum the general consensus is that getting a decent one is worth the extra buck, particularly as a non-specialist seller might sell you a bum reed, and without a decent reed you're in for a frustrating time. So best to buy from someone that actually knows duduks and QCs their products. There are some instructional DVDs on the market; kind of pricey, but so are private lessons. Though that cost can be somewhat defrayed by lessons via Skype. For actually buying duduks and maybe getting lessons in person, the Los Angeles area is probably your best bet in the USA, but failing that internet is a good option. One neat bit I'd forgotten is that duduk is generally played in pairs, with the senior player doing the melody, and junior/apprentice playing a constant drone. In the modern era, this would be a great role for a computer playing a basic drone loop, and indeed I once saw a show where a Canadian duduk player would just fiddle around with his laptop, get some electronic ambient beats and a drone going, and then just amble around the stage improvising on duduk to round it out. This is a great instrument, so glad that someone gave it a shout-out. TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 05:04 on May 15, 2012 |
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May 15, 2012 04:45
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:I had debated a duduk post, so I'm glad you brought it up. Have you done a bit of looking into it? Have any info on where to buy one, learning materials, etc? My impression is that it is a bit of an unusual reed to work with, but if it's something you strongly want to do I would't let that hold you back. The duduk is a woodwind instrument from Armenia that has been around since antiquity. Derivatives of it are popular throughout the Middle East and Central Asia (such the Turkish mey, Azeri balaban and Persian narmah-ney), but don't have quite the same warmth and resonance as a duduk.   The defining feature of the instrument is the enormous double reed, called a ramish. It's what gives it such a unique sound, but also why the duduk has a reputation for being difficult. You need a ton of air to vibrate a reed that large as well as strong lips and cheeks to control it. You'll notice Djivan up there looks like he's about to burst a blood vessel from blowing so hard. Fortunately, there are soft reeds available that are much easier to play. The trade-off is that they tend to have a buzzy clarinet sound, fall out of tune quicker and don't last as long. Being a double reed instrument, you also have to tune it on the fly through a combination of lip pressure and mouth shape. Don't have perfect pitch? Sucks to be you (and me). The body of a duduk is made of apricot wood, has an octave and a half of range and is usually drilled to a major diatonic scale. Despite that, you can play almost any note in its range through a combination of partially covering the finger holes and adjusting lip pressure on the reed. They come in various lengths, labelled for the note it plays with all holes open and drilled for that note's major scale. For instance, the most popular is an A duduk, which is drilled to A major and will play an E3 with all holes closed and an A4 with all open. Learning material: There are a few DVDs and books out there, but they're either hard to find or very expensive. Unless you live in LA or some other city with an Armenian enclave, in-person lessons are out of the question, though I know of at least one person who offers lessons over skype. As for internet resources, this is the best I could come up with: Some amateur but decent quality beginner lessons The closest thing to an active English language forum, has a sheet music section Slightly more active Yahoo group UNESCO manual (mostly in Armenian) with sheet music on p. 80 Buying one: A professional quality one can be had for under $300. Reeds are expensive at $30-50 a piece but last for years. Avoid the really cheap duduks on ebay. Most are made to be souvenirs and are either poorly tuned or impossible to play. As a rather difficult instrument to learn, it's best to go for quality so that when you inevitably suck at it, you know it's your own fault and not the instrument's (or more specifically, the reed's). www.duduk.ca - Arthur Grigoryan is the name I heard most when trying to find out what professionals use Master Simon - Cheaper at $100 for a duduk/shvi (wood flute) combo and 3 reeds. Sounds decent in his youtube videos and has plenty of positive feedback, but I'm still skeptical. Gevorg Dabaghyan is another name I heard a lot, but apparently the only way to buy his instruments and reeds is by contacting Vache Sharafyan via email and having him translate and setup a direct sell for you. ThirdReichNRoll fucked around with this message at 06:04 on May 16, 2012 |
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May 15, 2012 10:13
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Nice writeup; thanks for writing it up, and for bringing it up in the first place. One thing to emphasise from your post is that Duduk.com does have both the forum as well as a range of duduks and other woodwinds, and a really solid FAQ. I particularly like the bit about the old-school way to oil your wooden duduk: take some walnut kernels, wrap in a handkerchief, smash with a hammer until the oil gooshes through, and rub the greasiness onto the wood. As you mention, learning to work with the reed does take some learning, but for those too scared to mess with a reed, at least at first, there is a lower-threat alternative to the duduk that is just as Armenian, but a little easier to work with:  The shvi is essentially a tinwhistle with Armenian fingering made from wood. So the blowing part is not any harder than tinwhistle, but the fingering approximates that of the duduk. Shvis are, like duduks, commonly made of apricot wood these days, and run about $100 from several sellers. Again, buy from a decent seller, ideally one stocking shvis by recognised woodwind makers. Variety of keys to choose from, from small and shrill to big and mellow. Note a few folks also offer the blul (same idea with different style of mouthpiece), or even combo sets where you can swap blul vs. shvi heads onto the same body. I'm seen some inconsistency in the terminology, but it appears they're using blul to describe a mouthpiece where you blow onto a sharp edge to produce the note, so what we call an end-blown flute. In any case, same body as a shvi, in the same way that some folks make tinwhistles with interchangeable fife side-blown mouthpieces.  So if you're wanting to go Armenian, but scared of reeds, give the shvi (and/or blul) a look. Plus it's even fun to pronounce. Clips: - Some slow trad playing - A bass shvi carried by armenianinstruments.am - For slight contrast, a blul EDIT: I have a really exciting instrument I'm holding off on until I can get a really good grip on all the data and the best clips, but suffice to say in the next week or two we'll be getting all Ainu up in here... TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 03:11 on May 19, 2012 |
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May 16, 2012 03:40
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SecretSquirrel posted:I got a melodica this week despite my lack of ability with anything piano related. Doesn't stop me from annoying everyone and the birds with my own special arrangement of Final Countdown. I've been pleasantly surprised at the several goons who've taken up melodica here. I mostly associate it with either reggae or hipster indie-rock, but it recently occurred to me that klezmer would sound pretty awesome on melodica. Similarly, here's some melodica in what I guess is about gypsy jazz.  While I was on vacation in the Balkans, I was amused to see that mainstream music stores (the places mostly carrying electric guitars, drum sets, etc) would have full-size displays of Hohner melodicas. I wasn't clear on whether melodica was just a popular hobby there, or why so prominent, but I'd never seen such marketing of melodicas anywhere in the US.
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May 18, 2012 03:50
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Apologies if this has already been asked and answered, but what the heck is that contraption in the photo? 
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May 18, 2012 15:42
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prefect posted:Apologies if this has already been asked and answered, but what the heck is that contraption in the photo? The Bowafridgeaphone. "This instrument is exactly what it sounds like: an instrument made from parts of a refrigerator. To be more specific, the bowafridgeaphone is made from refrigerator grates, a bundt cake pan, and a salad bowl, among other things. Iner Souster, creator of experimental instruments that have been used by bands such as the Fembots, designed this instrument which creates a very industrial, interesting sound. For more on Souster’s interesting instruments, please visit inersouster.blogspot.com."
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May 18, 2012 20:53
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That answers that question. Also drat you TapTheForwardAssistant. I'm getting a tenor uke thanks to your horrible influences, and saving up for an irish flute or fife next.  At least the boyfriend and I don't live together yet, so he can't be horribly tortured as I swear a blue streak learning 
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May 19, 2012 01:36
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Lavender Philtrum posted:The Bowafridgeaphone. Indeed. I'm not finding actual footage of him playing it, but my rough impression is that all those strings are sympathetic strings. That is, strings that aren't played directly, but resonate due to the notes around them, adding layers of tone to the main notes. Here's a longer article on its development: http://inersouster.blogspot.com/2006/08/sympathy-for-fantabulous.html The main notes, I assume, would come from those metal spikes, akin to the waterphone:  The waterphone is basically a water-drum (hollow vessel full of water, where the oscillating water changes the pitch as the instrument is struck) and a nail violin  The nail violin is, as the name implies, just nails sticking out of wood, played with a violin bow. The more mass of the nail sticking out of the wood, the lower the tone. Combine that with a hollow chamber wherein you swirl water, and that's the waterphone. - Experimental 43-tone nail violin played with bows: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7-dB-9ilzs - Nail violin, set up in the "array mbira" system, played with rosin'ed hands vice a bow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBeyKi9dEKc - Waterphone demo with mallet and bow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFyv6t3OS3c This is fun, we haven't done experimental instruments for a few pages. Note that the waterphone has been popular in a number of film soundtracks for atmospheric spooky sounds, not unlike the theremin. I'll do a few more trad instruments next, but aim to work in another experimental instrument before too long. 
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May 19, 2012 15:11
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Somebody on this thread needs to try the Hello Kitty Pencil Case/Melodeon and report back. I think your videos have convinced me to visit our good toy store next time I'm downtown and check out the toy accordions.
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May 19, 2012 19:24
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Somebody on this thread needs to try the Hello Kitty Pencil Case/Melodeon and report back. Is this actually a melodica? I can't understand where the bellows are otherwise e: Apparently Suzuki makes brand of melodica called the melodion. There go my dreams of a Hello Kitty toy accordion! thousandcranes fucked around with this message at 19:35 on May 19, 2012 |
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May 19, 2012 19:31
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As long as we're on weird instruments, how would you go about finding a clavichord in good condition? The problem with Zuckerman kit-builts is that it's entirely down to the skill of the builder, and if you're buying a first clavichord you may not know what a well-voiced and well-built clavichord looks like.
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May 19, 2012 21:02
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Arsenic Lupin posted:As long as we're on weird instruments, how would you go about finding a clavichord in good condition? The problem with Zuckerman kit-builts is that it's entirely down to the skill of the builder, and if you're buying a first clavichord you may not know what a well-voiced and well-built clavichord looks like.  Clavichords are a tricky one; I'd actually looked into getting a clavichord as far back as age 19 or so, but now I'm in my 30s and have still never lived anywhere stably enough to invest in a somewhat large and delicate keyboard. Lovely instrument though, especially for anyone into Bach. As a technical note, the difference between a clavichord and a harpsichord is that a clavichord strikes a string with a hammer (somewhat like a piano) whereas the key of a harpsichord causes the lever to pluck the string with a small pick. Both differ from the piano in terms of not having the same volume-power range that the piano's sensitivity and pedals give it. As a fun trivia note, the reason we call it a "piano" is that the original name was "piano-forte", meaning "quiet-loud" to describe it's range. At this point in life, I've had a vague intent to acquire a Hohner Clavinet, that being a somewhat modernised and more affordable verison; I think I covered the clavinet in brief early in the thread, plus some of the very few YouTube bits I could find of people actually playing classical (vice jazz) on clavinet. I'd take a squint at those, as they can be found notably cheaper than clavichords, and can be repaired with some standardised parts and techniques. If you're holding out for an old-school traditional clavichord, I'd definitely get in touch with the online clavichord community to start figuring out the market, as it's a bit niche of a subject for goons to speculate on here. I see you've already found Zuckerman Harpsichord International and their kits; they've been around for decades, so if you have the woodworking skills to assemble one that's an option. I was pleasantly surprised to see that some of their smaller clavichords are rated at only about 50 hours of assembly work, which isn't terrible at all. Again, I'd recommend a lot of reading up for goons interested in clavichord, but for those window-shopping, check out Harpsichord.com and Claviersbaroques.com to get some idea of what's out there; some of the simpler small clavichords go as low as $1500-2000. Dammit ArsenicLupin, you've got me thinking about clavichords again...  A few cool clips: - Some kind of jazzy improvisation on clavichord - A little amateur Bach - Some blues, with some guitar effects, on the Clavinet TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 18:20 on May 20, 2012 |
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May 20, 2012 17:54
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The two instruments I've wanted to play since my teens are harp and [clavichord or harpsichord or virginals]. For now, the harp is a gracious plenty. Warning to anybody who is interested in buying a second-hand Zuckermann that somebody else built: Be careful! The original Zuckerman kits shipped with wood glue. A harpsichord case is under enormous strain from the strings, and it turns out that wood glue creeps over time. See How To Check Out A Cheap Harpsichord for details. Kits are out for me; I have a dreadful tendency to start craft projects and not finish them, and the last thing I want is a pile of jacks staring at me reproachfully for 20 years. E: One more cool thing about the clavichord is that the hammer remains in contact with the string for as long as you hold the note down. That means that if you're good, you can produce vibrato, called Bebung. In English, such notes were called "pricked notes", leading to this bawdy song: Celia Learning on the Spinnet Full performance on YouTube. Arsenic Lupin fucked around with this message at 01:08 on May 21, 2012 |
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May 21, 2012 01:01
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Look what you guys made me do.   A "Kid's Accordion" I think it was labeled, on the super cheap box it came in.  Next to my other weird/unique instruments. Left to right: Peruvian ocarina (gift from before seeing thread) Oak Tinwhistle in D (Purchased because of this thread) Bluesband Harmonica (gift from before seeing this thread) My new addition, the accordion. (purchased at a gift shop, because I heard these kinds of accoridons are decent from this thread) Lavender Philtrum fucked around with this message at 01:14 on May 21, 2012 |
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May 21, 2012 01:08
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Lavender Philtrum posted:Look what you guys made me do. Trippy, I came here to post about exactly this today. I'd wandered down to Meridian Park in DC to sit around and play concertina. I was going to play Anglo-Saxon lyre, but I somehow misplaced my tuning wrench in the house. On the way to the park, I could swear I heard a rumble in the distance, and it turns out I was correct: big ol' drum circle, and the park packed with people doing capoeira, ultimate frisbee, tightrope walking, the usual summer parkfull o'hippies. I hung around the circle for a bit, doing the old Zulu-style concertina method of playing really rhythmic chords. A bit later I was sitting on a bench playing, and a 20-something hippie kid walked up to talk about concertinas. Turns out he sings sea-shanties and writes modern ones of his own; plays harmonica but been hoping to get a concertina to be able to sing and play. We talked shop a bit, I gave him some advice (join Concertina Forum), and ended up going home and grabbing my cheapie Woodstock toy accordion and just giving it to him as a gift. I bought it cheap, and I've had folks do far more than that to encourage my music over time, so I figured it's just paying forward karma. I just asked him that, when he eventually gets a concertina, to pass the toy off to the next person. The Woodstock isn't bad, though at the toyshop I played all four they had and picked the one that was most in tune. You'll want to go read earlier in the thread where we discuss how to tweak these up a little bit. Mainly you want to pull the pins to look at the guts, make sure all the keys are functioning right inside, all the seals properly seal their holes. Then you want to take some masking tape and tape off one of each reed in the pair; with the doubled reeds for each note the box is way too thirsty (takes too much air). By taping reeds to render each note a single reed, you'll double your air, and also you can pick the most off-pitch reed to tape, so bringing your box more in-tune on average. These boxes are extremely simple inside, so don't be shy about pulling the pins and having a look-see. Speaking of concertinas, and toy accordions: for those goons in the UK, there's a guy on Forum.melodeon.net who has several great deals. NOTE: You might need to get a free account and log-in to see Sales ads. He has a beater Scholer (German 1960s cheapie) 20-button Anglo concertina for £35 delivered. Scholers aren't great, and they're not A=440 pitch, so in-tune to themselves and you can tune your guitar or fiddle to them, but they can't play with modern fixed-pitch instruments. They're not fancy, but better than a modern eBay Chinese clone, and for that price a great buy for anyone who wants to do old-school music or shanties. The same guy has a 1970s Worldmaster 1-row accordion in C for £50 delivered. For any Brit goon who either has a toy accordion, or was meaning to get one, either of these would make a great first-box beater at an affordable price, and you could probably sell them at the same price if you later upgrade.  For y'all US goons, I have a 20-button Italian Anglo that needs some very basic no-skill repairs (cutting and applying rubber tubing), as well as a pretty decent 20-button Anglo I bought cheap coming in the mail. Given the interest in toy/accordion in this thread, I'm fixing to put them up in SA Mart maybe in a few weeks, probably around $45 and $195. When I do so I can post a link to the SA Mart thread over here, and if there's interest I can keep an eye out for similar deals online as they arise. @Horrible Smutbeast: Something like that Worldmaster would be a good deal, but it's in the UK. If you don't pick up an Ariette right away (or try one and it's not your thing), I'd recommend going to that Melodeon forum and posting a "WTB" add in Classifieds asking for an inexpensive 1-row for a noob. Make sure to note in the thread title that you're US, as the forum is majority Brit. If you're focused on Cajun, aim for a C, if focused on Irish, aim for a D. If you're mostly interested in playing by yourself or with friends then any functioning key of box is fine and might be sold at a lower price due to being less popular keys. Have you had any luck finding anyone selling an Ariette close to you to give it a feel-out? 
TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 03:02 on May 21, 2012 |
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May 21, 2012 02:34
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Status report on the new woodstock: fun! Not confident enough in my DIY skills to do the reed taping and all that but I'm enjoying it more in my first few days owning it than I enjoyed the tinwhistle when I first got it. I think some of the reeds are out of tune, I don't know much about accordions but I can tell when I finger certain notes two reeds play and one sounds like a far different note than the other. I don't mind that much, though, it was cheap and it sounds surprisingly good. I might be more interested in collecting instruments than playing them. I wanna pick up a Monotron or Stylophone some time in the future, or one of those otamatone things. Stylophones are a little expensive for me considering what they are, but the Otamatone is unique enough to be worth it for me, and the Monotron has enough features that I think it's worth the price. I'm also curious if this weird thing is worth buying. It's called the Ningen Gakki and it's basically a crazy octopus-looking thing with four capacitative pieces of metal on it  When you touch them, another person can touch you, touch a metal object you're touching, or you can touch yourself, and the Gakki will make noise. It might be better to just watch the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJQrZas25hE ThinkGeek used to sell them but it looks like they removed the thing from their site. Enjoy watching the most awkward people in the world pretend to have fun. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGjGDdWmKwk
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May 22, 2012 01:32
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Gonna post this here because you guys will probably appreciate more than most. Built this 3 string: Not quite done but I couldn't help throwing strings on to hear it. Still have to make a proper nut, the original was way too tall; a few other touches to do. Has diatonic fretting, the frets are 12 gauge copper wire. If I were to do it over I would use a smaller gauge. Sounds pretty good although I can't play it yet, has good sustain. The intonation is almost perfect, top and bottom strings are dead on, middle is sharp and I'm not sure how to fix that without screwing up the other two. My summer goal is learning how to play it. More pics here if anyone is interested, also a few pics of the Aeolian harp I built. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2819334&userid=30468&perpage=40&pagenumber=12
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May 22, 2012 16:24
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wormil posted:Gonna post this here because you guys will probably appreciate more than most. Built this 3 string: That is pretty slick! I was wondering when a goon was finally going to get around to making a cigar-box instrument. Looks pretty solid overall, though I'd imagine at some point you'd get tired enough of the zither pegs to go swap in some scrap guitar tuners. It looks like you've done the standard dulcimer diatonic (+6.5 fret) pattern; if you're setting it up dulcimer-style you'll find it awfully easy to learn how to play. Basically any dulcimer tab will work fine for it, though since yours is held upright just bear in mind your strings are reversed. You mentioned in the woodworking thread that you're making another for the wife; will that also be dulcimer-fretted, or trying fretless this time? If you're into woodworking, there's a pretty cool instrument I'm digging into that's exotic, very easy to play, and should be really easy to build, so I'll shoot you a PM about it. I haven't covered it in the thread yet since I'm still working up a post and cool clips. Though, since I've been on an Anglo-Saxon lyre kick (finally got a tuning wrench to replace my lost one), here's a cool pic of a cigar-box AS lyre:  And, getting crazy, a cigar-box harp-guitar: 
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May 23, 2012 00:42
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I know this is a pretty low content post, but is there a reason there's no high C on this Woodstock accordion? (assuming I'm using the right nomenclature there, music theory's not my strong suit) We've got CDEFGABcdefgab? I want that last note! I'd be able to play so much more. Is this just due to the fact that the accordion is a beginner's/for kids one, or is it related to concertinas, or what? It's bugging the hell out of me. For example, if I want to play "Charge!", I don't have that last note. Do I just have to play it lower? I mean I guess the whole major scale is here but it sounds weird lower. Maybe i'm not making any sense.
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May 23, 2012 01:29
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The toy accordion isn't related to concertinas, it's related to Cajun accordions. It's basically identical to a Cajun accordion, just missing three buttons. It should have two buttons playing notes below middle C and one button above its current range. It's hard to fit all of the reeds into the smaller instruments. So probably when the toy accordion was designed, they had to remove some of the reads. The highest button and the two lowest button probably made sense to remove because those buttons don't have all of the notes of a C major scale on a Cajun accordion anyway. The two lower buttons are missing the A and the higher button doesn't have a D. This is what I mean, if it's not clear: 
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May 23, 2012 04:23
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:You mentioned in the woodworking thread that you're making another for the wife; will that also be dulcimer-fretted, or trying fretless this time? Originally mine was going to be fretless but I changed my mind. Wife wants a 4 string, standard tuning, her's will be a 24.75 scale as she can already play a little. She also wants a cigar box uke. TapTheForwardAssist posted:If you're into woodworking, there's a pretty cool instrument I'm digging into that's exotic, very easy to play, and should be really easy to build, so I'll shoot you a PM about it. I haven't covered it in the thread yet since I'm still working up a post and cool clips. Yeah, send me a PM, I definitely want to hear about it. Speaking of Anglo Saxon Lyres, that's been on my mind for awhile. I'm planning on making a range of instruments from a lute, lyre, and lap steel, the lute I'll probably do last because I want to make a nice one and need to practice my luthier skills first. But I also have at least two more cbg's to make. Here is a low quality vid of my daughter testing out the CBG. I have some HD clips but haven't uploaded them yet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D3lcSLpUSo edit, HD vid: http://youtu.be/mmy59UgIETY wormil fucked around with this message at 05:45 on May 23, 2012 |
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May 23, 2012 05:38
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Came here to post that image; but yes, 7 keys is smaller than about any normal button accordion. I was going to just say "any", but then I remembered I did once own a pretty nice Italian 6+2 button melodeon. In any case, barring some freak models, 10-button is generally the minimum for diatonic accordions; the Cajun accordion layout shown above is about as minimalist as they usually get. Interestingly enough, the equivalent on a concertina, a "10-button" which would have five buttons on each side, has never been even slightly popular in the modern era, to my knowledge. People are still making 10-button accordions in just one key to this day, but the very simplest of concertinas are still 20-button, two 10-button rows split between the two hands, in two different keys. While on the subject, years ago I used to be confused about why keys a fourth apart were so common for two-row accordions and 20-button concertinas, but when you look at the key layout it makes sense:  Note how on the G row (bottom row, G scale starts on third button push) the E is on the push for button 5. Now look at the top row, the C row; E is on the pull for button 4. The utility of that spacing between rows is that you get a lot of alternate-direction notes, so if you're pulling outward and want an E, if you just had the G row you'd have to change directions, but you can switch to the C row and get your E note while still on the pull. This sounds way more confusing than it is when you try to type it out, but Anglo concertina, and Cajun accordion, are really intuitive when you get used to them. thousandcranes is correct that Anglo concertina and diatonic accordion are different creatures, but in terms of scale layout they do have quite a few musical similarities. Short answer to your question: yes, it doesn't go up to the third C because it's a toy and a bit limited. Technically they could put a C on the push of the 7 button, which is actually what Cajun accordions do (check the 9 button in the diagram above), but they didn't. Toy accordions are fun, and do have genuine musical possibilites. Arguably they're almost more "cheap and clunky $20 accordions" than literal "toys", since they certainly do function, but just not great. But hey, plenty of British and German working class dudes sitting in pubs in 1890 played crummy wooden accordions that weren't much better. For anyone curious to see all the weird permutations concertinas went through in their development, check out the Stephen Chambers' site An Annotated Catalogue of Historic European Free-Reed lnstruments from my Private Collection. For the curious, here's way back when they did actually make 10-button concertinas, five to a side, before ditching the idea for the 20-button, dual-key instrument: 
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May 23, 2012 12:08
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:
First, Tap, this is an awesome thread and I want you to know that you deserve insane accolades. It has been a real inspiration as well as informative! On topic: I found my ocarinas, and the first thing I realized is that the one tuned in G is very shrill, very small, and not easy for me to handle. My fingers were slip sliding all over it and I couldn't make a sound that wasn't harsh. The C ocarina is physically larger, and fits my (small) hands pretty well. I also found it easier to make more clean, mellow sounds with it. I like the one in C much better. The inline fingering made tootling pretty easy, more finger=low, less=high. I had a good time toodling, and I am just practicing fingering and making smooth notes and transitions right now. This is day three of 10-25 minute toodling sessions. I'm not sure what style of music I want to do with these things (or just the one), but I know components of this kind of wind instrument are in some fun classic rock, classical, and folk music. I guess right now I am sort of focusing on just making semi-pleasant sounds come out of it.
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May 23, 2012 22:41
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Glad to hear you've got your ocarinas up and running; and yes, often mid-sized instruments are considerably easier to play than their lowest or highest variants. The same way a D tinwhistle is a great middle, but a High G is a real finger-cramper and rather shrill, and a Low D is a big beast to handle. (Mountain Ocarina's aluminum model) Good to hear you're enjoying the thread, as I really enjoy both getting people into playing music, and also helping folks consider the sheer breadth of instruments and styles out there that we don't often consider. If my luck holds out, someday when I retire I forsee spending a lot of time running Appalachian dulcimer workshops, arranging smallpiping seminars, etc. So far as what to play, a YouTube for "ocarina cover" might give you some ideas; some are executed better than others, but it's cool to see what people pick. I note that film and videogame soundtracks are really popular, as well as pop tunes in general. If you want to get a bit more trad, personally I think a lot of medieval music sounds quote:Here is a low quality vid of my daughter testing out the CBG. I have some HD clips but haven't uploaded them yet. D'awwwww.  Is your kid into music too, or are your luthiery experiments going to result in shouting matches of "but daaaaad, I don't want to play the Uzbek rabab!" ?quote:Yeah, send me a PM, I definitely want to hear about it. Speaking of Anglo Saxon Lyres, that's been on my mind for awhile. I'm planning on making a range of instruments from a lute, lyre, and lap steel, the lute I'll probably do last because I want to make a nice one and need to practice my luthier skills first. But I also have at least two more cbg's to make. Lap steel is insanely easy: it's pretty much a slab of wood you shape however you want, and then some minimal routing to make places to mount the pickup, string-holder, etc. You can make an acoustic lap steel (I used to own one), and that's barely any harder than your Aeolian harp. But lute, if by that you mean an actual Elizabethan round-backed lute, I'd put that way down the road. They're delicate and finnicky creatures, and I do not envy the man that has to piece together all those ribs that form the back:  That's 31 individual ribs to coordinate into a smoothly faceted back. Now if by "lute" you're open to a variety of such creatures, and not dead set on specifically playing Elizabethan repertoire, another medieval instrument like the the citole would be cool and far easier, or a primitive Arabic instrument like the qanbus:  (okay this particular one is not the simplest citole, but it's a cool pic)  (qanbus is an older Yemeni relative of the modern oud, and also played in Indonesia where it migrated with Muslim sailors) Lyres aren't too bad at all; you can go about them one of two ways. Either get a solid body and hollow it out, then lay a top across it, or make a hollow form and then sandwich it between a back and a front. It's actually pretty clever how they hollow out such instruments: they drill holes to pre-determined depths and then chisel (or route) out the honeycomb:  While we're on lyrechat, I wanted to mention another maker I ran across that has a variety of styles of lyre at reasonable prices ($170 and up): http://www.orphicairs.com/HARPS.HTM I was hunting around because I might be back in the lyre market: while I like lyre, I'm not 100% thrilled with mine. Nothing against the maker, just the particular style/design I ended up with I don't like as much as some others, so I might end up selling mine (which is vaguely based on the Sutton Hoo lyre) and getting the slightly longer/sleeker Trossingen lyre:  (the names refer to the burial sites where the various lyres were discovered, or in some cases what place researchers observed a carving of a lyre, or book from which they copy a lyre from an old drawing). TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 03:38 on May 25, 2012 |
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May 24, 2012 04:33
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:D'awwwww. Yeah, she's very musically inclined. Taught herself piano then later took lessons. She's been taking guitar lessons now for a year or so and moved to the intermediate teacher a few months ago. Thankfully our music tastes have about a 95% overlap. I like the idea of playing a stringed instrument but have trouble really getting into it. Years ago I took sax lessons but had to give it up before getting very far. I'm thinking that I might try another wind instrument like a tin whistle or ocarina. I'll be travelling a bit this summer and it would be nice to have a hobby I can take with me.
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May 24, 2012 06:07
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Tap, I went back and reread your article on citterns, and you didn't mention where to find one. My search resources keep coming up with antiques, zithers, and mandolins. Is there such a thing as a cheap cittern?
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May 24, 2012 16:45
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