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SealHammer posted:Wait, wait, wait. So basically, user-generated content that would normally equally benefit both the consumer (replay value) and the developer (lower dev costs) is actually handled in a way that benefits the developer at the expense of the consumer? Everyone benefits, so I don't think it's that big of a deal. The player gets a tune, the creator gets some credits based on the download, and the developer gets some cash if people buy tokens to use as credits. It's not like credits are impossible to obtain by just playing. We're not talking about GT5 levels of grinding here.
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Nov 25, 2013 02:00
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| # ? May 30, 2024 07:43 |
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I have so much troble with the downhill at Bathurst.....
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Nov 25, 2013 02:48
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wernox posted:I have so much troble with the downhill at Bathurst..... Race it with a V8 Supercar and get back to us 
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Nov 25, 2013 02:49
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If it's anything like iRacing, always brake way earlier than you think you need to and be very gentle with it. Also, pray. Each lap.
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Nov 25, 2013 02:55
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wernox posted:I have so much troble with the downhill at Bathurst..... Done the Esses or down Conrod Straight?
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Nov 25, 2013 03:36
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MUFFlNS posted:People were poking fun at Faustus' posts as well but he didn't start whining about it! My Limited Edition arrives tomorrow, but my console delivery date is 12/31.  At least that might give me time to purchase a wheel and a stand. I hope they aren't backordered (lol?) If I feel jilted I'll be 100% honest about it, but no matter what anyone around here says there are some things I truly believe in spite of what everyone is saying: 1) If MS overreaches too much with this "making people pay for poo poo they used to get for free" I believe the backlash will be felt and addressed. For example, I give you the spanking they took from Sony when they announced all their DRM bullshit. 2) I will never agree with the people who complain that since they bought a car in a previous iteration of Forza (and this really applies to any type of DLC in any game series), that they are entitled to have it for free in the new iteration of the series. It's not reasonable, especially if the developer has to spend time and money to create the content. 3) Most of the problems with this iteration of Forza are due completely to someone's insistence that the game be available at launch. I don't believe that the guys who gave us the Vandura and the Country Squire are happy releasing a game with so few cars and tracks. I expect they will address this in the next version. The worse the backlash, the worse the sales, the more T10 will step up next go-round. But... who knows? I don't. That's just my gut feeling. I'm also super jealous of you guys who have it and are racing already. The biggest disappointment to me right now is the lack of car clubs. I sincerely hope this is addressed in a patch or something, and soon.
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Nov 25, 2013 05:38
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Dr. Faustus posted:2) I will never agree with the people who complain that since they bought a car in a previous iteration of Forza (and this really applies to any type of DLC in any game series), that they are entitled to have it for free in the new iteration of the series. It's not reasonable, especially if the developer has to spend time and money to create the content. If they were truly building the cars from scratch, I'd be more understanding. But, as I mentioned before, I find it really, really hard to believe that's the case, judging by how many 2010/2011 models the game has. If they were actually building the cars from scratch, I don't think they'd be doing it with 3-year-old models of cars that are still sold. What I've been reading on the official forums kinda reinforces that, with people who own the game still complaining that some of the models look janky and off as much as they were in Forza 4 (i.e. R32 Skyline). DEEP STATE PLOT fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Nov 25, 2013 |
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Nov 25, 2013 06:01
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Not every car was recaptured, Dan Greenwalt had talked about it weeks before release:Dan Greenwalt posted:Our goal's not to carry old content over - and even with all the cars, we did the same process. There were some inaccuracies, and some cars were old-spec that we'd updated from Forza 2 to 3 to 4. But they didn't have the poly count where we wanted it - and they weren't as easy to up-res, so we just recaptured them. Some of them, the spec was good and we could add polygons where we needed them. So it came down to this rating system - and any track or car that wasn't an A grade got either chucked or recaptured. source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-11-06-why-forza-motorsport-5-has-less-cars-and-tracks-than-forza-4 So basically they are reusing an unknown number of older models while they recaptured others. Same thing for the tracks (which is obvious, given the existence of fictional tracks in the game). However there's a lot of work involved besides just having the scanned data, but it's still kind of shocking how much was cut given that a lot of what's in there isn't even that phenomenal (the tracks).
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Nov 25, 2013 06:39
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So why did they drop new cars that were added for Forza 4? Some of the old Forza 2 holdovers looked pretty wonky in Forza 4 and I can understand ditching them or redoing them, but from what I've been reading, some of those same ones still look wonky in 5. On the other hand, the models added for 4 (especially the Autovista models) looked really drat good. In fact, weren't the cars with Autovista in 4 all way higher quality than everything else? Yet they dropped some of them anyway for 5? Same thing with the tracks. Sonoma and Hockenheim were both scanned with better tech than previous tracks (if Turn 10 are to be believed), so why aren't they in there?
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Nov 25, 2013 06:47
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It becomes really obvious what's going on when you take that into account. All the autovista cars in 4 were very high quality models. Probably at least Forza 5 quality. They had everything in the car modeled, there's no reason not to have them in 5.
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Nov 25, 2013 06:50
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Cannot Find Server posted:So why did they drop new cars that were added for Forza 4? Some of the old Forza 2 holdovers looked pretty wonky in Forza 4 and I can understand ditching them or redoing them, but from what I've been reading, some of those same ones still look wonky in 5. On the other hand, the models added for 4 (especially the Autovista models) looked really drat good. In fact, weren't the cars with Autovista in 4 all way higher quality than everything else? Yet they dropped some of them anyway for 5? They'll probably be used to pad DLC packs. it will be 2 or 3 new cars, and 7 or 8 cars from forza 4. that's what they did with forza horizon. edit: Out of the 10 cars locked behind the "limited edition" bullshit, 6 of them were strait out of forza 4 DLC packs. edit 2: Who wants to bet that forza 4 tracks come back in the "Expansions" 
Powershift fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Nov 25, 2013 |
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Nov 25, 2013 06:55
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Cannot Find Server posted:So why did they drop new cars that were added for Forza 4? Some of the old Forza 2 holdovers looked pretty wonky in Forza 4 and I can understand ditching them or redoing them, but from what I've been reading, some of those same ones still look wonky in 5. On the other hand, the models added for 4 (especially the Autovista models) looked really drat good. In fact, weren't the cars with Autovista in 4 all way higher quality than everything else? Yet they dropped some of them anyway for 5? This is not the place to ask that. You know this. Cubi, I don't think it's fair to just guess what's happening at Turn 10. I get the strong feeling that you (and others) are doing that, based on "educated guesses." Except they're really just guesses based on varyingly vague statements from interviews. It reminds me of when I tried to introduce a very cool singer/songwriter/performer to a musician friend of mine. It's one thing that our tastes perhaps differed, but this ex-friend of mine (the ex-friend bit had nothing to do with music, it was personal) literally said to me, "If this guy's so great, how come I've never heard of him?" To this person, the mere fact that this guy wasn't on his radar meant that he was eager to dismiss the talent and authenticity of that guy's blooming career and body of work. Since then, lots of people have heard of this guy and though he is a bit of a niche artist, he's famous and getting rich (because his music is good). It doesn't matter at all that this ex-friend of mine "hadn't heard of him." I consider this the equivalent of the pointless plaintive, "I think I know something about these tracks, so why aren't they in the game??" Maybe you are just operating off assumptions that don't fit reality. No offense meant. I haven't noticed anyone with first-hand experience from T10 or their sub-contractors coming in here to explain the naunces and minutia of how these car or track model things work, and that's why I don't assume to make the leaps of "logic" that you've been making all the time about this game. When you've been right (for example, about the crashing lobbies in FM4) I stood corrected, I gave credit due; and I thanked you for the clarification. I'll do it again if some post-mortem tell-all from a reliable source comes out; but until then I see no reason to doubt Greeenwalt's integrity. You and I simply do not develop racing games for a living. We just love them and are passionate about them, and there's no doubt we're disappointed with what's happened to #5 so far. That's fair and only natural. There's really no understanding to be gained from speculating here about why this or that was done. The game has been available for three whole days. Let's see how things progress. Also, as far as Hockenheim getting axed, didn't we all kinda hate it a little anyway? I know I heard the name Tilke cursed often and loudly with regard to that track. I know a lot of people bailed on Hockenheim rather than race on it. Infineon, on the other hand, will be sorely missed along with Maple Valley, the 'Ring, etc. But if they didn't think those track lived up to the next-gen, then once again I will simply state that I'd rather wait until they're ready (please be ready soon). God I wish my console would hurry up and ship. And I need a new wheel. Crap.
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Nov 25, 2013 07:28
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Found this picture Game. Changer.
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Nov 25, 2013 07:30
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I'd buy a DLC pack that had quilted, striped, bird's eye, and spalted Maple wood textures!
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Nov 25, 2013 07:31
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Holy poo poo yeah, quilted maple wheels would be great. Bookmatched flame bonnet/hood anyone?
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Nov 25, 2013 08:03
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Has anybody familiar with the old SlaveMunky tuning spreadsheets found out where to find all of the information for the cars after upgrading them? I've found the main weight/displacement etc section, and the wheel size/width section but I can't find the last three bits: power, torque & redline RPM. Am I missing something obvious?
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Nov 25, 2013 10:55
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You Am I posted:Done the Esses or down Conrod Straight? I think both....but my biggest screwups came right around the little kink before the big left hander...
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Nov 25, 2013 11:18
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Scatterfold posted:Am I missing something obvious? This is all info that they included in the old garage sorting info which they've removed and replaced with the new Manufacturer/Class/Year system. You can still look at the power/torque curve and estimate that information.
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Nov 25, 2013 14:34
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General Probe posted:This is all info that they included in the old garage sorting info which they've removed and replaced with the new Manufacturer/Class/Year system. You can still look at the power/torque curve and estimate that information. Ah, another little unnecessary removal.  Time to stare at some tiny graphs! Thank you.
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Nov 25, 2013 14:53
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Dr. Faustus posted:This is not the place to ask that. You know this. I'm not sure what you are saying here, but it appears you are stating the Forza 5 thread is not the place to bring up reasonable concerns about Forza 5. If that is not your point, could you clarify?
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Nov 25, 2013 15:46
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:I'm not sure what you are saying here, but it appears you are stating the Forza 5 thread is not the place to bring up reasonable concerns about Forza 5. If that is not your point, could you clarify? Because the question was: " Sonoma and Hockenheim were both scanned with better tech than previous tracks (if Turn 10 are to be believed), so why aren't they in there?" And unless there is a T10 employee lurking around here, no one can answer that. It has be assumed by some that it's because they will be paid DLC, and therefore T10/MS are greedy, or that T10 was lying, and the tracks were not scanned in as they claimed. But no one here can say as a fact, because none of us have developed Forza.
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Nov 25, 2013 15:56
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It sounds like you just don't want to talk about the fact that the game was gutted for DLC.
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Nov 25, 2013 15:59
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You are only allowed to say good things and not unfortunate truths you know this. Here is an approved sentence: "Forza 5 is great and the cash grabs are not ridiculous."
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Nov 25, 2013 16:09
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"Why cant Forza 5 be on Xbox 360?" Who the gently caress would have guessed that sentence would end up actually making sense?
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Nov 25, 2013 16:09
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Dr. Faustus posted:This is not the place to ask that. You know this.  So you are defending forza 5 but you haven't even played it yet? And to defend it you have to use weird metaphors/ancedotes about musicians?
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Nov 25, 2013 16:20
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WienerDog posted:Because the question was: " Sonoma and Hockenheim were both scanned with better tech than previous tracks (if Turn 10 are to be believed), so why aren't they in there?" We're consumers. If something doesn't make sense, or we feel we are getting less for our money, we should call it out. I don't see an issue with that post as it sounds like they are asking if anyone has the answers. Sometimes articles are written with developer interviews or tweets are posted that have those type of answers. This thread is the perfect place to post those questions as a poster may have a link to the answers, or may be able to direct where to find them. Dismissing legitimate questions doesn't do anything to continue the conversation.
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Nov 25, 2013 17:07
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You don't have to own an Xbone/Forza 5 to be able to look at it and say 'Hmm, I'm getting less than I did previously'
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Nov 25, 2013 17:29
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I have Forza 5 and a 'bone in a box in my office. I am debating whether to open it and plan or just return it all. This thread is such a departure from previous Forza threads its hard to distill the truth of the simple question 'is this worth my time and money to play?' I think for me the answer is 'maybe.'
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Nov 25, 2013 17:57
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The game is incomplete. Stuff that should be there isn't, little things like being able to tune before a race - any race- are gone. It's like they had a meeting and were all "ok, we have X amount of time to poo poo this game out. What is the bare minimum we can ship it with? That includes options, menus, gameplay, tracks, cars, marketplace, ease of tuning, etc. What is the easiest way we can ship and meet the minimum of minimumest features and accessibility?" The gameplay, the actual racing, is great. But everything else feels tacked on at last minute to make it done in time to launch. And we're the ones that suffer for it. I'd recommend anyone on the fence to wait. Either wait for platinum hits edition or wait for Forza 6. Or wait two weeks for GT6.
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Nov 25, 2013 18:19
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There's also some really great sim racers on PC available now and coming in the future. Project CARS looks amazing and there's also a lot of praise for Assetto Corsa too, on top of everything else that's available. If you're a big enough fan of racing games that you'd buy an Xbox One just for Forza 5, you might as well spend the extra cash and just build a really good gaming PC instead. Now that Valve is working on Steam OS and Big Picture mode as well, you can just hook everything up to your home cinema setup.
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Nov 25, 2013 18:36
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I am really digging the rumbles in the triggers
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Nov 25, 2013 18:44
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I doubt it'll make a difference because anything they stripped out and then sell is almost pure profit. Theoretically, if they make $10 on the initial sale and then say 40% of customers buy $15 in DLC which they then make $10 on, it's a shitload better if they lose out on only 10% of initial sales due to bad press, which isn't going to happen anyway. None of this DLC info was mentioned in any of the reviews I saw and it boils down to this: It's a launch title and most customers don't browse forums so they won't be informed about this.
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Nov 25, 2013 18:46
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MUFFlNS posted:There's also some really great sim racers on PC available now and coming in the future. Project CARS looks amazing and there's also a lot of praise for Assetto Corsa too, on top of everything else that's available. While PC sim racers are fun to play, I love console style ones for the progression. Starting out in a old 90s Golf and a couple weeks later tearing rear end in an LMP1 car is unbelievably fun.
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Nov 25, 2013 19:00
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Endymion FRS MK1 posted:While PC sim racers are fun to play, I love console style ones for the progression. Starting out in a old 90s Golf and a couple weeks later tearing rear end in an LMP1 car is unbelievably fun. I'm interested in this answer too because I have a wheel for the PC. However, I haven't played a PC racing game yet that has been as fun at FM4. Maybe it was the company, but I feel like a lot of the PC sims are too goddamn serious and don't allow for the 90s Golf Challenge races that I love in GTCC.
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Nov 25, 2013 19:07
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Minimaul posted:The game is incomplete. Stuff that should be there isn't, little things like being able to tune before a race - any race- are gone. It's like they had a meeting and were all "ok, we have X amount of time to poo poo this game out. What is the bare minimum we can ship it with? That includes options, menus, gameplay, tracks, cars, marketplace, ease of tuning, etc. What is the easiest way we can ship and meet the minimum of minimumest features and accessibility?" This is why I'm pretty much done with consoles. I'm tired of paying full price for half a game then being expected to dole out another $120 over the next 3 months for the rest of it.
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Nov 25, 2013 19:13
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I'm sure that in 2 years we'll all be laughing about this and welcoming Turn10 back with open arms. "Good times," we'll say, "Good times." I'll totally buy a 'Bone and preorder FM6 if it looks like I should.
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Nov 25, 2013 19:19
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What Minimaul has said is probably the most accurate statement regarding F5. With that in mind GentlemenofLeisure would you be so kind as to add https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqVwtINwB0GkdFdaeGJ3M3hmamlBR21uYTN6bTZObVE&usp=sharing#gid=0 to the OP and draw attention to it so we can get some goon racing going?
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Nov 25, 2013 19:30
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I always thought that I raced like kind of a crashy jerk, but random drivatars have taught me that I am in fact, a gentleman of grace and restraint.
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Nov 25, 2013 19:57
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:I'm not sure what you are saying here, but it appears you are stating the Forza 5 thread is not the place to bring up reasonable concerns about Forza 5. If that is not your point, could you clarify? The question was, "So why did they drop new cars that were added for Forza 4?" The answer is: We only know what Dan Greenwalt said. He said, to paraphrase, "If it didn't meet our next-gen look, we scrapped it for later." I think I got that about right. Asking for anything more than that, in this thread, is like asking in Musician's Lounge why Fender chose this paint over that one when no one in the Lounge actually works for Fender so no one in the Lounge can actually give an expert testimony or any other answer than guesses and press releases. Does that make sense to you? If not, I'll try harder. Oops, I see WienerDog answered the question quite well, and then Mozi chimed in with some speculation to paint this game in the worst light. You take the good with the bad, of course. Exmond posted:So you are defending forza 5 but you haven't even played it yet? And to defend it you have to use weird metaphors/ancedotes about musicians? I'm sorry, was the musician analogy too difficult to follow, or is it your position that it simply doesn't apply? I'd like to remind you that, yes, I am defending the game and no I have not played it. I've been over this a lot, but since you may have missed it I'll try again: We know this is a launch title. We do know the game was rushed. We know MS seems to be monetizing more than they used to; but we don't know that this is, to use a phrase, "The new normal." We know that monetized DLC is here to stay, so it's really more of a question of to what degree? I believe this will be decided over time. Also, once again, I would like to state that I defend FM on the strength of their past work. FM5 does not exist in a vacuum, and presumptions that low-content releases with highly-monetized DLC are the future is speculation at best. It flies in the face of their history and I am not ready to believe the worst, yet. My answer to this is that other developers will put out racing games, and if they provide more bang/buck then they will prevail. This industry is competitive. Honestly, I am trying to persuade in good faith but the same old charges are getting too tiresome to reply to (and I know you are sick of reading them, but open minds are better than closed ones). I'm earnestly honest with you all and some of you know me and know this about me. And if this game shits in my mouth I will come right in here and mea culpa like I drat well should. Ok? (Sorry, last edit. My LCE is arriving but dammit I have no XBone!) Yep, that was UPS and I have the LE now. Now i just get to wait for my console while you all slug it out. I will point out that many of the people who are making GBS threads all over this release are just as "guilty" as I am, in that they are also making judgements about a game they don't own, for a console they don't own; and they are making assumptions that, in my humble opinion, fly directly in the face of the history of this franchise and this developer. Thanks for reading. Dr. Faustus fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Nov 25, 2013 |
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Nov 25, 2013 22:50
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| # ? May 30, 2024 07:43 |
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Sorry about the double-post.
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Nov 25, 2013 22:52
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