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Pylons posted:I'm not denying that Kenny is the heel here. Okay, then my point stands. Kenny beating Mox in a steel cage because "Mox is best outside", again, literally makes no sense for a heel champ retaining his title.
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Dec 9, 2020 04:24
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SamuraiFoochs posted:This I agree with though. And BTW we still don't know who attacked Mox and there is the hint that it could've been Hangman, so there's that. That is a super-interesting point.
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Dec 9, 2020 04:24
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Impact was a mixed bag, more bad than good but some bright spots, and the promo was fun. I'll keep my mind open to watching more and they have to be thrilled by the watcher count, given that it was 50k+ on Twitch during the Omega promo and in the mid-40s for most of the show. Could be the start of some good cross-promotional stuff and I'm for it, especially if it means more Lex Express mentions.
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Dec 9, 2020 04:26
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Thanlis posted:That is a super-interesting point. In case anyone forgets, Mox was very clearly in the pose of The Hanged Man tarot card when he was laid out, and: 1. It seems like the kind of thing AEW would do on purpose, the only question being whether it's a red herring or not, and 2. I find it very strange that Hangman hasn't really given any indication about his kayfabe mental state yet other than "very not well". He could easily hate Kenny's guts and be a Sting-esque foil (which tbf is most likely) or he could've been broken down enough by the lovely treatment that he did it to try to get the approval of his friend back and it'll take more time before he snaps on Kenny.
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Dec 9, 2020 04:30
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SamuraiFoochs posted:Okay, then my point stands. Kenny beating Mox in a steel cage because "Mox is best outside", again, literally makes no sense for a heel champ retaining his title. Mox did do a bunch of poo poo outside in that match though, including throwing Kenny on a heater. That doesn't change the face/heel dynamics, it's just an objective statement of what happened I am sympathetic to the argument that a cage match specifically is weird tonally if the story you're telling is "Kenny is playing to his technical advantages this time around," but I also don't think the Winter is Coming match definitively killed "Kenny can outwrestle Moxley if he can cut off Moxley's brawling." In general, I don't really love "top heel who literally always cheats to win" as a wrestling trope, so I think there's a way to have Moxley lose relatively clean to Omega in a rematch without it reflecting poorly on Moxley. Kenny isn't a heel because he's not a great wrestler; he's a heel because he's a great wrestler who's an rear end in a top hat and a hypocrite who will get dirty if he feels a match slipping away from him
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Dec 9, 2020 04:49
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Is it weird that the only one in Impact who's over at all with me is Rosemary, and even then only because of Decay's involvement in the Broken Matt stuff? EDIT: Actually, I forgot about Emma, she's over with me too.
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Dec 9, 2020 05:11
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Moxley had the belt for nearly a full year and looked like a beast the entire time doing it. He can lose a rematch relatively clean and still not lose heat. Also, that rematch doesn't have to happen immediately. Hangman is absolutely the man who should beat Kenny. That's the culmination of a year plus long story. No need to get cute with it.
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Dec 9, 2020 05:30
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AEW seems smart enough to give Mox revenge without getting the belt. Something where Mox serves up humble pie to Kenny but Kenny gets to cheat into hanging onto the belt would advance both stories and protect Mox.
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Dec 9, 2020 05:38
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Just have Mox destroy Kenny in a other lights out match
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Dec 9, 2020 05:47
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Or Mox get his revenge after Kenny drops the belt to Hangman
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Dec 9, 2020 05:52
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fez_machine posted:Or Mox get his revenge after Kenny drops the belt to Hangman This works only if Kenny manages to duck Mox until then and I dunno how you do that. I liked the suggestion of Mox getting a rematch and Kenny more blatantly cheating to both keep the title and have the "I BEAT YOU AGAIN, CAN'T TOUCH ME, HA HA" heel tactic while also protecting Mox for the time being. xbilkis posted:Mox did do a bunch of poo poo outside in that match though, including throwing Kenny on a heater. That doesn't change the face/heel dynamics, it's just an objective statement of what happened This is fair except getting dirty if he feels a match slipping is the literal definition of cheating which is really all I was suggesting Kenny do. It's not that he has to have like 5 guys interfere or have 2 dozen ref bumps or anything, but if Kenny is your top heel, he should NOT beat your top face unless you're depushing said face or you're deliberately telling a targeted "this isn't the end of their story yet" story, the latter of which basically necessitates some form of shenanigans. SamuraiFoochs fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Dec 9, 2020 |
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Dec 9, 2020 06:20
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After hearing how great the knockouts division was, am I the only one who wasn't overly impressed by that tag match?
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Dec 9, 2020 06:39
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My perspective is: 1. After an undefeated streak that lasted more than a year and a 9+-month title run, Moxley should be pushed out of the title picture to make way for Kenny -> Hangman as the next big title-changing program 2. After getting cheated out of the title, Moxley should logically be angling for a rematch or else he looks like a sucker 3. Moxley has to get his vengeance eventually, but it doesn't have to be anytime soon (or come in the form of an in-ring victory over Kenny) To me, the cleanest way to square all that is finding a way for Kenny to beat Moxley relatively clean in a rematch. If Mox just moves on, it's unsatisfying (although I think they could probably get away with it with some hand-waving). If Mox gets a rematch and Kenny just cheats again to win and then that's the end of it, it's unsatisfying. If Mox gets a rematch and beats Kenny, that's a fine story but doesn't really strike me as close to the most compelling option given the pieces AEW has laid out. If Mox loses again, less controversially this time, it brings a clean end to this chapter of his story while leaving the door open to pick up the thread anytime in the future. Moxley can cost Kenny the title further down the line, or beat Kenny in a No. 1 contenders match to earn his next title shot, or you can do "Kenny is the one guy Moxley still hasn't officially beaten!" the next time Moxley is champ. You can bake in an injury angle or something to help protect Moxley, but ultimately, I don't think it reflects poorly on a top face if they lose one match dirty and one match clean to a guy who's presented as a legit top-tier talent. Sometimes the bad guys are good at what they do, too!
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Dec 9, 2020 06:54
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Comedy option: Put off the match altogether by having Kenny appear on the first Dynamite of 2021 and go "Jon Moxley has a 0-0 record, what claim does he have to this belt?"
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Dec 9, 2020 07:01
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xbilkis posted:My perspective is: This is a very solid perspective, and while I don't entirely agree necessarily, it is an extremely compelling argument. I didn't even think about the "Kenny's the one guy Mox hasn't officially beat" yet. That would be a really satisfying choice. Honestly, the hardest part is that AEW is so loving full to bursting with talent. Mox is a deserving champ. So's Hangman. So's MJF. So will Jungle Boy down the line, and on and on the list goes. It's loving nuts.
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Dec 9, 2020 07:36
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Impactthoughts Well produced opening package 1) Josh Alexander vs Chris Sabin. I remember really liking Chris Sabin, and Walking Weapon has been fun on the indies. Commentary are doing a good job of explaining stories as they go along, which is good. This is a very solid singles match that makes me want the tag. The huricanrana into backbreaker was enjoyably nasty. Josh Matthews is just starting to get irritating. He's not BAD on commentary but he seems to need to fill every second even if it's just saying moves as they happen. Match was good, finish was a bit ropey. Josh tells us what happened on Dynamite for the fourth time. Moose segment with Chris Bey. I like Chris Bey. I don't care about Moose. Hey, it's the Tonys! This is fun. Weird and passive aggressive. Nice. "1 night and then I quit the business for 18 years" was awesome. 2) Brian Myers vs TJP. This has the potential to be a fun match even if TJP is an insufferable prick. Myers is a fundamentally good pro wrestler. TJP is very good but a douche. Rayne and Matthews have a really bad dynamic on commentary. This isn't a bad match. Myers looked good in victory without making TJP look weak in defeat. This seems to be a couple of forgotten sons. I don't like the student movie way these are shot. I don't know who this is either. INTRODUCE people for gently caress's sake. 3) Eric Young vs Cody Deaner. Okay so that was Cody Deaner earlier. He's got some Duck Dynasty-rear end ring gear. I like Eric Young's look here. This was a short match but I didn't mind it. Joe Doehring looks like an idiot. Oh hey Rhino. Tommy Dreamer talks to... someone. Tommy Dreamer talks to two huge guys. I recognise Ace Austin and Larry D. Is this Scott D'Amore? Everyone talking about Kenny makes everyone else seem minor league. 4) Deonna Purazzo and Kimber Lee vs Taya and Rosemary. I like Rosemary's entrance, she has good stage presence. Deonna's ring gear is awful. There's some competent wrestling here (Taya and Rosemary are both pretty good) but the camera work feels lurid in an unsettling way. Some nice tornado tag spots here but it was okay rather than great. Props to Tenille Dashwood for using her name in a promo so I know who she is. These backstage clips are very badly made. They're aping WWE in a way that doesn't gel. Sami Callihan cuts a really loving awful promo. God drat. Someone comes out and sulks on the ramp and sucks on the mic too. And Eddie Edwards beats Sami up in a boring manner. I don't care. The woman in this package has been in three segments without anyone saying his name. 5) Chris Bey and Moose vs Willie Mack and Rich Swann. This is Vince McMahon levels of putting all the black people in one match. Didn't Rich Swann used to beat his wife? Bey is very good. Sucks that the second this got going they cut to commercial. Bey and Mack are great in this match. Moose is boring. Swann is a very talented bag of poo poo. For the nineteenth time tonight Josh Matthews tells me that he's going to be interviewing Kenny Omega later. The interview. Kenny in full Cleaner mode. The nameplate spot is cute, as was "you were close with Ambrose right?". Don monologues very well. This is very convincing as a speech. The amount to which Callis hates Matthews is enough to make Callis face. gently caress, Kenny is so good as the Cleaner. I like the "because we can" attitude. Intrigued by the idea of Kenny as belt collector. This was an awesome fun ending to a show that had moments of real quality.
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Dec 9, 2020 08:48
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I’ll throw some quick comments in here too as I always enjoy Lamuella’s takes. I watched all of Impact tonight for the first time. I admit I watch recaps every week though but I watched this all the way through. Here goes: 1) Josh Alexander will always be the truth. His singles push is coming soon once Page leaves and signs with AEW. Yeah, that’s happening as his contract is up Jan 1 and he said he isn’t re-signing. Rezinning. Resinngnong. 2) Chris Bey is a star in the making. Cody whiffed hard on signing him. Glad he gets love in Impact though. 3) Rosemary remains incredible. She’s kinda like the first Abadon really. She will always rock and her theme music rules. Taya is always amazing too and is a star. Taya keeps getting rejected by WWE but maybe that’ll change one day. Both women are solid in the ring. I hate to say this because Deonna is skilled as well as Kimber Lee but they are minor league here against their opponents. For new viewers, it’s not indicative of their skills but tonight it is what it is. 4) Eric Young and Cody Deaner. Not my bag. The Deaner promo was horrendous and felt like somebody who doesn’t know what it actually means to show emotion. Eric Young’s mask was Retribution style and just not my kind of look. Wasn’t feeling this match at all. 5) Tenille with Kaleb Konley...just felt like two talents in the wrong place. Nope. 6) Bey and Mack and Swann and Moose match: Good match. I’m a big Bey fan. Thought everybody did their part. Swann as champ with that music is just absolutely bush league though. It’s low mid card. Just my opinion. 7) Kenny and Callis: What. A. Promo. Kenny us unhinged and you can see it how he gathers his thoughts. He’s coming unglued. Callis will forever be one of the best on the mic. It all felt real. This was near perfect and a moment I’ll see myself rewatching again and again to capture a turning point in wrestling. That’s real talk. Here’s the deal with Impact: it’s the #3 NA promotion. You’re simply not going to get top tier production here. If you know that going in, it’s enjoyable. This place is the minors. And that’s OK. For talent who want to move up, it’s not just skill but presentation that I look at. Some of the gear choices are really, really bad. Josh Alexander has the look and the skill. Bey does too. Taya and Rosemary...yes please! The rest just need some coaching here. Some need new music. Some need better direction in the ring. But it’s fun to watch them grow, even the vets. Josh Matthews gets all the bad press and while he isn’t good, one of his biggest hang ups HE NEEDS COACHING ON is that you don’t have to talk to hide silence. Just like a business meeting, in a professional setting, you can remain quiet here and there and let the ring work do the talking. There’s other nitpicks too but this is the first thing he needs to correct. And I highly doubt anybody is telling him this from an authority position and coming from a place of improvement out of love. Lastly, I’m going to bold this because it’s historical: Sami Callihan cut one of the worst promos of 2020 tonight. Oh, and bringing Kenny and Callis together on the program highlighted something I hope every wrestler in Impact realizes so they can get better: Kenny and Callis spoke, acted and carried themselves like they’re the god drat CEOs of Wrestling. They looked out of place in a good way. Bring that big league energy for next Tuesday, Impact.
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Dec 9, 2020 09:17
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That Sami promo was one of the worst promos I’ve ever seen.
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Dec 9, 2020 09:52
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Thank you for your recaps since it's easier for me to watch MLW these days than Impact.
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Dec 9, 2020 09:59
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dromal phrenia posted:kenny omega, bigtiming douche that pisses off every single promotion could be a fun angle It really genius that he runs off with one promotion's world title in a big gently caress you and then goes to another promotion and basically says gently caress You too! I'm gonna get your title too! Gotta catch em all! Kenny Omega 2021: Buries EVERYONE!
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Dec 9, 2020 17:48
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mooseinfants posted:After hearing how great the knockouts division was, am I the only one who wasn't overly impressed by that tag match?
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Dec 9, 2020 18:10
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