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noice. It's out in the UK?
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Feb 23, 2016 04:44
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Yeah, I ordered it from a site called AbeBooks about a week ago and it arrived here in California today.
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Feb 23, 2016 04:53
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Alright, so some Forge of Darkness theories from someone like 15% into it. So I'm thinking the Tiste Andii, Edur, and Liosan all have their roots in the Tiste of Kurald Galain. The highborn Sons/Daughters of Darkness and their followers become the Andii, Urusander somehow becomes Father Light since his son is Osserc and his Legion becomes the Liosan, and not sure who becomes the Edur. Maybe the Wardens, except for Spinnock? I've already encountered Scabandari and he was out in that region. Somehow the Tiste Civil War results in their appearances changing and each groups demeanor or whatever you call it is based on the group they originated from. Plus Anomander is described as having golden hued skin rather than ebony with silver hair plus other Tiste we know of not matching their descriptions in the Book of the Fallen. I'm thinking Kurald Galain was actually a part of the Malazan world at one point until it somehow split away and became warrens/holds for each respective Tiste group. Something to do with gates being found? It was mentioned the pre Mother Dark Mother Dark found one. The Tiste are referred to as one of the founding races after all and that wouldn't make any sense if they're aliens. Plus there's Thel Akai, Jheck, and Jaghut outside their borders which are all known to have lived in the Malazan world. Kurald Galain in the Book of the Fallen I always pictured as always cloaked in darkness but the Kurald Galain of Forge of Darkness is bright and sunny and some characters actually love the sunlight. So anyways thats my theory so far. On a side note I really hope Arathan makes his father really proud at some point in the book.
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Feb 23, 2016 05:15
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The Ninth Layer posted:You were paying better attention at this point in the series than I was. But keep reading, you won't have to wait for too much longer. Well, I figure that I should do something with my English Lit degree while I hunt for a job in an unrelated field.
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Feb 23, 2016 05:23
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The Ninth Layer posted:Got this in the mail today: Post your thoughts on it when you're done! I've stopped following ICE's stuff after Stonewielder (looked up summaries of his other books), but I'm really hoping this new trilogy lives up to the expectations Erikson set up for us in the main series.
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Feb 23, 2016 05:55
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TGG posted:Karsa's whole arc as a character is really one of the best bits of fantasy I think I've read. Damned entertaining and shockingly affecting, I'd love to be able to relive my first read of the series and I always read this thread and get jealous of the first timers. For real, Karsa owns. When he was first truly introduced, I'd have never have guessed that his last section in the series would be defined by being with and comforting a complete stranger as he dies, and yet at the point it happened it felt so very right 
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Feb 23, 2016 06:02
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cptn_dr posted:One chapter in to House of Chains. I'm finding Karsa very difficult to like so far, but I can tell he's going to be very interesting, potentially super cool and a lot deeper than he seems at first glance. I think it's pretty drat spoilt by this point; But as unbelievable as it sounds, you will think Karsa Owns Bones before too long. And you will then join the growing number of people who watch other people start HoC and say the exact same thing you did. It's a little marvel, it really is.
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Feb 23, 2016 10:51
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Tokelau All Star posted:I'm in the middle of The Bonehunters in my reread, and I gotta say this probably the weakest book in the series. I enjoy the wild adventures of the Master of the Deck, and anything with Corabb but it feels like nothing really happens in this one. I'm slogging to get to Reaper's Gale, which was probably my favorite the first time around. Interesting how opinions are different. For a very long time The Bonehunters was one of the least appreciated (because it's not self-contained as the others, and bridges the story onward). Then at some point after the series ended it became one of the best books, according to internet "consensus". One that is frequently picked as favorite after Memories of Ice. I'm also reading it and finding one of the very best in the series. But what's interesting is that I actually consider every scene with Paran the weakest aspect of the book. So it's like I have a polar opposite impression. Also about "nothing really happens", too much happens, so quickly that it suffer for lacking impact and description. Erikson tosses away too much. This book is like three books crammed into one, and it's actually weak BECAUSE it compresses too many estranged scenes together. It's like a washing machine. It gives the impression that it moves slowly because it's extremely fragmentary, with a scene only lasting 3-4-5 pages and then switching to something else. Sanderson or Jordan could have made a SERIES out of this single book (and it would have been very good). Abalieno fucked around with this message at 11:01 on Feb 23, 2016 |
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Feb 23, 2016 10:58
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The second three (that sounds weird, but is accurate) will always be my favourite. Nothing has beaten DG/MoI/MT for me.
Shockeh fucked around with this message at 11:08 on Feb 23, 2016 |
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Feb 23, 2016 11:01
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Well, my "ladder" currently is: Forge of Darkness House of Chains (novellas) Memories of Ice Deadhouse Gates Midnight Tides Gardens of the Moon But honestly there aren't really "gaps" in there, beside the first book and the rest. Memories of Ice is ballsy and excessive, but for me the real Malazan begins with House of Chains, coalesces with Midnight Tides, and then it's rock solid Malazan all the way (to the apex that is Forge of Darkness). Also, on a very general level, to describe the internal ebbs and flows of the series as I perceive it: there's a significant leap in writing quality and control of story and characters between GotM (whose qualities exist but are hidden) and Deadhouse Gates, that second book has an incredible story, but still a number of flaws. MoI has actually MORE flaws than the second book, but it SOARS just due to sheer momentum, constant rise and overflow of the stakes and paradigm shifts. It's just insane and relentless to the point it annihilates its many flaws. House of Chains has fewer flaws that DG, but they are more significant, but everything else is just more solid overall. It's such an amazing sequel that is so good that it enhances DG itself as its direct sequel. From HoC onward Erikson has already fully found his voice and themes, so the writing has finally the focus it lacked before. Midnight Tides is low on my list because it's wasteful of its ideas, lacks description and impact. It's a bit tossed away instead of made to shine, but it's fully "Malazan" in ways that the first three books weren't (it could even be considered an entry point for those who want to see what Malazan is without fully committing to the whole series, but in this case Forge of Darkness is even better). The Bonehunters is much better because well written and because it's just fun. It's Erikson fully in control, who's having the best of times writing. It has creativity, playfulness, inventiveness at the same time of control, something that was lacking before. The actual flaw of the Bonehunters is that it's fragmentary and "scattered", but Erikson is completely aware of this and does all he can to tame it, making it more into a reader preference than an actual objective flaw. Abalieno fucked around with this message at 11:30 on Feb 23, 2016 |
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Feb 23, 2016 11:05
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Okay, by the end of chapter two, I'm pretty convinced the Teblor are either Toblokai or Trell, and I'm not super convinced that they are different things anyway. The name, the wooden sword and the Icarium connection are what have me convinced.
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Feb 23, 2016 11:18
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Cuntpunch posted:Toll has one of my favorite badass-on-badass scenes, though: My favorite scene is Kallor and Spinnock. "And.... may you one day show your true self. May you, one day, be redeemed in the eyes of the world."
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Feb 23, 2016 11:47
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The problem with TtH is that the one good plotline it has (Kallor/Nimander's traveling therapy group) is surrounded by hundreds of pages of Darujhistan tripe. I don't know what it is with that place but I really dislike any part of the books that takes place there.
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Feb 23, 2016 12:07
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Which was the one with the Hetan snuff scene poo poo? That was the worst book by far, I think I quit after that.
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Feb 23, 2016 17:26
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Drogue Chronicle posted:Which was the one with the Hetan snuff scene poo poo? That was the worst book by far, I think I quit after that. Dust of Dreams. There's only one book after that and it (The Crippled God) is much more a continuation of Dust of Dreams rather than a separate story, so no reason just to finish the series at that point. Feel free to skip whatever viewpoints you're sick of by that time.
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Feb 24, 2016 02:30
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anilEhilated posted:The problem with TtH is that the one good plotline it has (Kallor/Nimander's traveling therapy group) is surrounded by hundreds of pages of Darujhistan tripe. The problem I had with Darujhistan is that it's one of the corners of the world I feel like Ericksen *set up* but then is leaving to ICE to *do something with* - having not forced myself through the ICE novels yet, hey maybe I'm right? Like this big epic "THERE IS A GREAT STORY HERE" and then we go dance off to other corners of the world.
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Feb 24, 2016 02:38
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Reached the end of the first part of House of Chains, and had it revealed that a) Karsa is Toblakai (yay I was right!) and b) he's the Toblakai from Deadhouse Gates. I feel like I'm starting to get a grip on how Erikson does things, and I'm really enjoying seeing my theories turn out, whether they're correct or incorrect. gently caress, these books are so good. And Karsa is great.
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Feb 24, 2016 05:42
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cptn_dr posted:I'm finding Karsa very difficult to like so far cptn_dr posted:Karsa is great. Basically.
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Feb 24, 2016 06:17
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Cuntpunch posted:The problem I had with Darujhistan is that it's one of the corners of the world I feel like Ericksen *set up* but then is leaving to ICE to *do something with* - having not forced myself through the ICE novels yet, hey maybe I'm right? Like this big epic "THERE IS A GREAT STORY HERE" and then we go dance off to other corners of the world. The endless sexy parties don't help either.
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Feb 24, 2016 12:00
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Can you spoil it or should I just look for some ICE summaries?
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Feb 24, 2016 13:35
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anilEhilated posted:The endless sexy parties don't help either. Hand Row posted:Can you spoil it or should I just look for some ICE summaries? Picker and Blend get really hosed up on some wine and gently caress a retard. Edit: Oh, you probably meant the whole book. I stand by my statement.
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Feb 24, 2016 14:11
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I meant ICE and how he wraps up the city plot in orb sceptor butts. I am doing a reread and while Forge helps with Toll the Hounds, it is still the blah book of the series. Kallor scenes are great though. Interested to see how the last two books are because I feel like Toll burned me out the first time through.
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Feb 24, 2016 17:29
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Having just done my DoD reread I can attest that it's better the second time around, a lot of interesting tidbits are dropped that I missed the first time through and I appreciated the side-plots more knowing what their payoff would be. Anyway, I finished Dancer's Lament. It was pretty good, up there with ICE's later works. I might even say it was the best he's written, except I happen to like Blood and Bone's atmosphere a lot. The book is very focused compared to his other works, there are only three POV characters and they're all in the same setting, so every plot felt relevant and the story didn't devolve into a convoluted mess. It definitely felt like a setup book for whatever ICE is gonna follow it up with, nothing too ambitious or shocking but just a good solid story. My biggest concern going in was that Esslemont would gently caress up Dancer and Kellanved, fortunately they hold up well to Erikson's versions. Some light spoilers here: Lots of Dancer and Kellanved throughout. They're a lot younger and are known in this book as Dorin and Wu, respectively. The book takes place in Li Heng and there are a lot of references to Return of the Crimson Guard. In fact, a pre-Oath Crimson Guard even shows up in the book and there are a few Guardsmen we meet that are present in the series, mostly Esslemont's additions. If you thought the timeline for the main series was murky, this book definitely muddies the waters. With some of the characters that appear, it doesn't seem possible that Kellanved could have ruled for 100 years since even with Azath fuckery there are definitely some characters in this book that shouldn't be alive by ROTCG. Overall I would recommend it, there's nothing earth-shattering here but I think the story is stronger for it.
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Feb 25, 2016 04:45
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The Ninth Layer posted:Anyway, I finished Dancer's Lament. It was pretty good, up there with ICE's later works. I might even say it was the best he's written, except I happen to like Blood and Bone's atmosphere a lot. e: Please tell me there's no Kyle.
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Feb 25, 2016 12:03
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It predates the entire Malazan Book of the Fallen so no Kyle and Kiska (I hope).
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Feb 25, 2016 13:02
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Toll the Hounds is the best book in the series.
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Feb 25, 2016 13:36
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Almost done with Forge of Darkness. Pre Dragnipur imprisonment Draconus isn't anything like I thought he would be with the way characters in The Book of the Fallen remembered him as this terrifying evil dude. Though it makes me wonder what Anomander did to get him in the sword in the first place considering even other Elder Gods were intimidated and fearful of angering Draconus. He even made short work of taking out Kilmandaros and Sechul Lath. I'd like to see him finally hunt down Erastas in a future book. Personally I think Draconus' intro in Dust of Dreams is the most badass intro in the series.
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Feb 25, 2016 16:05
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anilEhilated posted:Uh, "later work" being BnB and Assail?
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Feb 25, 2016 16:41
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On cpt_dr's urging, I started reading Gardens of the Moon the day he finished it. I'm now nearly halfway through Memories of Ice and I can't remember the last time I was this engrossed by a series. The Bridgeburners are the best, everything is terrible and I don't know what's going on half the time. I love it.
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Feb 26, 2016 23:33
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The Ninth Layer posted:
I was prepared to be dissapointed when I bought the book, but I was pleasantly surprised. The characters were well written and the plot was ok. Certainly much better than Assail. I wonder how many books the series is supposed to get?
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Feb 28, 2016 21:37
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I assumed it would be a trilogy, but Dancer's Lament was slow enough that I think ICE will take his time getting through events. Wouldn't expect to see the Aren siege in book 3 for example.
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Feb 28, 2016 23:02
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One of my first posts in this thread, way back at the start of DG, was something along the lines of "Holy gently caress, Fiddler". I'm just reading the Scorpion Fight bit of HoC, and I want to reiterate "Holy gently caress, Fiddler". He's so great. Speaking of great characters, I met Traveller a few chapters back. I'm not certain, but I'm pretty confident that he's Dassem Ultor , and is already exceedingly cool, even after only one scene. I've gotten out of the habit of following the reread on Tor.com chapter by chapter. Do you think it would be worth picking it up again? I do get the feeling that there's a bunch of stuff I'm missing, but that might just be a good way to read the series for the first time. Opinions?
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Feb 29, 2016 02:08
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I'd say read it the first time on your own. It makes reading the whole drat thing a second time even more rewarding.
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Feb 29, 2016 03:08
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 it is mine 
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Feb 29, 2016 05:15
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Mustang posted:Almost done with Forge of Darkness. Pre Dragnipur imprisonment Draconus isn't anything like I thought he would be with the way characters in The Book of the Fallen remembered him as this terrifying evil dude. I never got the impression that he was evil per se, just incredibly powerful, and with the sort of amorality that usually accompanies such power.
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Feb 29, 2016 10:22
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Finished House of Chains. Really, what more is there to say than "Man, Karsa owns"? Well, other than, goddammit, how does Erikson make me cry at the end of every drat book? FE: Oh, while I feel like I'm getting pretty good at picking up hints and foreshadowing, I was completely blindsided by Sha'ik being Onrack's wife. One more edit: The Liosan getting Sapper'd is the most satisfying thing in the world. cptn_dr fucked around with this message at 11:04 on Feb 29, 2016 |
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Feb 29, 2016 10:47
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cptn_dr posted:One more edit: The Liosan getting Sapper'd is the most satisfying thing in the world. Isn't it, though? 
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Feb 29, 2016 12:07
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:
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Feb 29, 2016 12:49
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Joke is on you. Now you have an even longer wait for the third book than the rest of us plebs.
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Feb 29, 2016 13:22
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So I started thinking of this series again the other day. And the thought just keeps growing because the whole thing is just this blur in my memory. It doesn't help that I listened to the last 3 as audiobooks after reading the rest. I feel like theres a lot I missed in retrospect.
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Mar 1, 2016 06:18
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