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yeah they should, for instance, add an area of the game you can go to only if you are a specific race. perhaps with a whole tribe of people who are functionally the same race as what you are as the player, but they're called something different because it's a different culture. perchance a place where roegadyn are called bigguys and you can only go in their houses by standing on weighted buttons that only open doors if you're heavy enough. missed opportunity that absolutely nothing is like this in the game, anywhere
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Aug 1, 2021 22:14
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Considering they were once full monarchist, we are pretty sure they are not genuine and arguing with them is giving them exactly what they wanted out of this exchange.
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Aug 1, 2021 22:17
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I honestly forgot about the dwarf houses. There is nothing to do inside them. Maybe if there were NPCs you could talk to or vendors inside, it'd be more than a forgotten gimmick.
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Aug 1, 2021 22:17
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Moofia Boss Val posted:I honestly forgot about the dwarf houses. There is nothing to do inside them. Maybe if there were NPCs you could talk to or vendors inside, it'd be more than a forgotten gimmick. You can't remember core plot points that were the pivotal scenes in an expansion, I'm not sure you remembering something or not is the ultimate mark of its quality.
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Aug 1, 2021 22:22
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Most of the parts where WoW brings up your race are the racial starting zones and minor dialogue changes that don't really matter, just like FFXIV.
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Aug 1, 2021 22:26
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:You can't remember core plot points that were the pivotal scenes in an expansion, I'm not sure you remembering something or not is the ultimate mark of its quality. Love to give my many genuine and honest opinions, every single one of which is very controversial for some reason, on a story I remember approximately 0% of
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Aug 1, 2021 22:26
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Hellioning posted:Most of the parts where WoW brings up your race are the racial starting zones and minor dialogue changes that don't really matter, just like FFXIV. Yeah those dialogue changes happen here and there through-out the whole game which is about as much as you get in WoW besides racial abilities that are either dog poo poo or cute but pointless. Chillgamesh posted:Love to give my many genuine and honest opinions, every single one of which is very controversial for some reason, on a story I remember approximately 0% of I just need him to explain how Viera becoming playable is a retcon. Because when pushed on it he just started crying that race isn't a major thing in game. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Aug 1, 2021 |
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Aug 1, 2021 22:33
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If you're a monarchist in 2021 you're either a troll or a huge moron so I don't think you'll get a satisfying answer either way
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Aug 1, 2021 22:34
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Also really want them to explain how they missed the primal lore poo poo. That one still stuck with me I'm sorry.
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Aug 1, 2021 22:37
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:I just need him to explain how Viera becoming playable is a retcon. Because when pushed on it he just started crying that race isn't a major thing in game. Viera should have been heard about in ARR in Eorzea. "I hear that there are alchemists in Thavnair! And ninjas in Doma fought against the Garleans! And that one of the generals of one of the wealthiest kingdoms in the Far East has bunny ears!" The Veena also appear to live in less remote regions than the Rava did in Golmore (the Skatay range isn't in Eorzea or Othard so it's Ilsabard, which is the center of the Garlean Empire and would have lots of roads along which information can be distributed), so there should have been talked about women with bunny ears.
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Aug 1, 2021 22:42
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:The primal thing really gets me because it's a huge plot point that gets like 2 separate 10 minute cut-scenes where people talk about it in Heavensward and it's the major turning point for one of the major cast members of the expansion and the truth of it and her not being able to live with it is the major reasoning behind her eventual self sacrifice. ZenMasterBullshit posted:Also really want them to explain how they missed the primal lore poo poo. That one still stuck with me I'm sorry. I don't remember the entire MSQ line for line. I just remember that in ARR, all of the different Ifrits and Titans you fight are the same Ifrits and Titans and that their souls hung around in the Lifestream waiting to be resummoned back into material reality. I forgot about Shiva. I suppose in retrospect that it could have been a Heavensward retcon, not an ShB one. Then again, the original Shiva was never a Primal, so I suppose it's not like there was an original Shiva soul hanging around in the Lifestream waiting to be resummoned. So... Yslaye was the first Shiva primal soul? Under the old lore, could that exact same being have been resummoned into physical reality? Anyway, by the time of ShB that's no longer the case, as in Eden the WoL isn't resummoning the Primals he fought in ARR, but is instead just using creation magick to create new familiars to fight and then disperse their aether. And if the old lore was still in effect, then I'd imagine that Bahamut and Ravana would have recognized the WoL in 5.5 EDIT: can't delete to merge this post into the above one, sorry for the doublepost
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Aug 1, 2021 22:49
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Whatever bullshit Fandaniel is doing is probably borrowing from different wells in some way than just "well, some Amaljaa guys decided to summon Ifrit again." Shiva seems to make sense because she is only summoned by Ysayle, in terms of the actual individual that we encounter. Ryne tries to do the same thing but it does not quite work out because, well, it was honestly a pretty bad idea, and fortunately her girlfriend was on hand to help out. This might mean that an attempt to summon Shiva on the First would get 'the Ryne version,' but they're probably distinct entities, kind of like how Ramuh is said to be probably based on Rhalgr but meaningfully distinct from the actual member of the Twelve.
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Aug 1, 2021 22:52
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Moofia Boss Val posted:Viera should have been heard about in ARR in Eorzea. "I hear that there are alchemists in Thavnair! And ninjas in Doma fought against the Garleans! And that one of the generals of one of the wealthiest kingdoms in the Far East has bunny ears!" The Veena also appear to live in less remote regions than the Rava did in Golmore (the Skatay range isn't in Eorzea or Othard so it's Ilsabard, which is the center of the Garlean Empire and would have lots of roads along which information can be distributed), so there should have been talked about women with bunny ears. Dalmasca gets mentioned in 2.0 as a conquered nation which can easily lead someone to infer that all of Ivalice is part of the setting, which ends up true. Your own standards aren't even applying
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Aug 1, 2021 23:00
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It's still not a retcon in HW it's expansion on a plot point that the main cast of the story don't know 100% about. WE're told repeatedly throughout ARR that no we don't know everything about primals or summoning or tempering but we know we gotta deal with them. It's not 'old lore' that is written away it's assumptions being tested and changed. Not every bit of new information that refocuses how things are perceived is a retcon. And no because Ysalye used herself as the focus so even if someone else had the same intentions and believed themselves to be Shiva Reborn it would not be the same entity. Because another person with a different mind summoned it. It might believe it is if they do but the poo poo with Ga Bu proves the primals' mind is made by the summoner. None of this requires you to remember the story line for line, but the parts that talk about this are incredibly heavy handed and laboring in these points and they linger in those scenes and build them up as big important bits. The poo poo with Ysalye and Hreasvelgar is built up over 3 zones of plot pacing and rising importance and the poo poo with tiamat is the last bit of building before you head to the ARF to finish the expansion. This isn't forgetting small details this is just not paying attention. Edit: Which is fine just don't bumble into the lore/spoiler thread talking like you know the correct interpretation of poo poo when you don't remember anything. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Aug 1, 2021 |
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Aug 1, 2021 23:06
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Mister Olympus posted:Dalmasca gets mentioned in 2.0 as a conquered nation which can easily lead someone to infer that all of Ivalice is part of the setting, which ends up true. Your own standards aren't even applying yea we knew Dalmasca existed in FF14 since ARR, and if you're a Certified Viera Fan who'd care about how elegantly they're revealed to the world you'd know 'oh the major hub of Ivalice was conquered? Bet that means Ivalice is in some bad straights right now'. But yea the 'they retconned primals' thing is also bugging me, primals indeed not being the same is literally a major plot point of multiple expansions, it's in fact core to how they work. Also the gunblade 'retcon' is genuinely good writing, because you see the entire loving point is that this imperial power we see using these tools actually didn't create them and instead was making a poor imitation of a conquered culture's tools. It's an example of Garlemald's stagnation since it began to expand into an empire, much like how it's spiritual predecessor in Allag was the pinnacle of technology until it began going full on imperial/primal pokemon capture mode and fell. That's not a retcon that's...the entire narrative beat of a major chunk of the game, that Garlemald is going down the same path as other empires (and as we found out, that's by design), so when the story shifts to 'oh gently caress the Garlean Empire is just kinda gone, it cannibalized itself' it's not a sudden tone shift but rather 'looks like they fell down the same path as the others we've seen like the ones in the War of the Magi and the Allagans.' You can't call advancement of a central theme of the game story a retcon, that's not what that means!
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Aug 1, 2021 23:22
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I thought retcons fought the autobots
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Aug 1, 2021 23:27
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Optimus Prime dying in the movie is a retcon of him being alive in the show.
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Aug 1, 2021 23:30
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The Warriors of darkness being a thing that exists? Baby, you got yourself a retcon
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Aug 1, 2021 23:36
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Can someone tell me the quests where we kill refugees gets better?
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Aug 1, 2021 23:39
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People talking on the moon where there is no atmosphere? Retcon we would have heard about air on the moon
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Aug 1, 2021 23:39
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Sexual Aluminum posted:Can someone tell me the quests where we kill refugees gets better? If it's the quest I'm thinking of, I don't think you actually kill them, you just beat them up so they don't think they have the strength to rebel. As to your actual question...not really.
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Aug 1, 2021 23:47
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Yeah turns out I didn’t kill them just beat them. Is this a long chain? I think it’s a main quest? I just wanna kill primals. Edit: yay off to kill Ramuh Sexual Aluminum fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Aug 1, 2021 |
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Aug 1, 2021 23:49
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Also by now there's enough player Au Ra/Viera/Hrothgar around that it wouldn't make sense for NPCs to be surprised by it.
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Aug 1, 2021 23:52
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Sorry the game is exclusively about beating up refugees, the poor, and other disadvantaged groups from that point forward. Weird turn, IMHO.
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Aug 1, 2021 23:53
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Countblanc posted:Sorry the game is exclusively about beating up refugees, the poor, and other disadvantaged groups from that point forward. Weird turn, IMHO. I think when Nanamo said 'let them eat cake' it was clear the bias the writers had
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Aug 2, 2021 00:05
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Countblanc posted:Sorry the game is exclusively about beating up refugees, the poor, and other disadvantaged groups from that point forward. Weird turn, IMHO.
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Aug 2, 2021 00:12
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edit: nm meant to post this in the other thread
BabyRyoga fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Aug 2, 2021 |
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Aug 2, 2021 00:42
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Moofia, you need to stop using the term 'retcon', because you clearly do not understand the actual definition of the word. FFXIV is full of things where we don't have full information at first, and so we come to potentially incorrect conclusions (usually as players, there's surprisingly few times where the central characters get things wrong). This is not the same as 'retconning', and if you actually go back to review the facts on something you're convinced is a retcon, you'll actually find that nothing contradicts it; you just weren't given the full picture until later. Like I said, I've been looking back at the Ascians, and it's surprising how consistent they are, even going as far back as 1.0. The only thing about them that debatably is 'retconned' is that they dropped the idea that they don't have shadows as a big hanging sign of an Ascian, which apparently they wanted to make a big deal in 1.0. Even that isn't actually gone, though; it's just that in ARR and onwards, the Ascians are much more overt to the point where you don't have to look for a sign like 'no shadow' to identify them. Which also isn't a retcon, because there's in-universe reason for their change in M.O., largely stemming from the fact that they're not used to getting the Calamity-wheeling started again so soon after the last one, so they have to be a tad less subtle and more forceful. ...and also that Lahabrea is just kind of a dick. Seriously, a lot of ARR actually makes a lot more sense when you realize that Lahabrea is basically just bullying you to kill time while the Ultima Weapon plan comes to fruition. He's not achieving anything, he doesn't need to, he's just causing you problems because he doesn't have anything better to do.
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Aug 2, 2021 00:55
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Smarter Ascians log off.
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Aug 2, 2021 00:58
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Yea it's not that Laha has no agenda, it's that he has ONE very specific and time based agenda, and spends most of ARR waiting for it to finish, so he's just kinda loving around.
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Aug 2, 2021 00:59
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Louisoix did some permanent psychic damage on the Ascians by simply preventing Bahamut from destroying the world too hard and presenting them the irresistible prospect of finishing their millennia-spanning goal sooner than planned. "I mean, there's only one Warrior of Light, how bad could it be?"
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Aug 2, 2021 01:36
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Hogama posted:Louisoix did some permanent psychic damage on the Ascians by simply preventing Bahamut from destroying the world too hard and presenting them the irresistible prospect of finishing their millennia-spanning goal sooner than planned. Emet-selch really had the right idea to just kill off his emperor character and take a hundred year nap.
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Aug 2, 2021 02:09
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Cleretic posted:Moofia, you need to stop using the term 'retcon', because you clearly do not understand the actual definition of the word. It's just Lahabrea telling you poo poo you have no loving clue about and then not stopping to answer questions before his next speech and then leaving you with a big monster to fight over and over and over. Dude's just fuckin with you and it's pretty fun. And yeah that's something kind of fun in retrospect. Basically everything any ascian told you is mostly true, just framed a little wonky by their position. Remember when you first meet Elidi and he says truly mastering your Echo would make you no different than him? He's 100% true in that fact. Echo is just bits and pieces of the Ancients' abilities so if we had all of them we'd effectively be an unsundered being. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Aug 2, 2021 |
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Aug 2, 2021 02:17
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:It's just Lahabrea telling you poo poo you have no loving clue about and then not stopping to answer questions before his next speech and then leaving you with a big monster to fight over and over and over. Dude's just fuckin with you and it's pretty fun. It makes you understand why Emet Selch was taking century long naps because he was tired of Lahabrea’s poo poo.
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Aug 2, 2021 02:19
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I assume this is explained somewhere and I'm just forgetful, but lahabrea's plan was to cause a calamity with ultima, right? There's no way that can match up with a light-aligned calamity, is there? Doesn't that mean another shard must be on the brink of disaster. Unless I'm forgetting something important
cheetah7071 fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Aug 2, 2021 |
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Aug 2, 2021 02:21
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cheetah7071 posted:I assume this is explained somewhere and I'm just forgetful, but lahabrea's plan was to cause a calamity with ultima, right? There's no way that can match up with a light-aligned calamity, is there? Does that mean another shard must be on the brink of disaster. Unless I'm forgetting something important Ooo good question actually, I don't remember myself, would also like to know
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Aug 2, 2021 02:30
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cheetah7071 posted:I assume this is explained somewhere and I'm just forgetful, but lahabrea's plan was to cause a calamity with ultima, right? There's no way that can match up with a light-aligned calamity, is there? Does that mean another shard must be on the brink of disaster. Unless I'm forgetting something important Remember that during ARR, the First was probably in the early 'Ardbert and Friends get together and have adventures' stage, if not even earlier, so it probably hadn't become the clear 'next shard to be rejoined' yet. No other shards are 'on the brink' to the point where things are leaking through like they were from the First in late 4.x, but there were contenders. Especially since, if Ultima was going to be the Calamity, it was one with very controllable timing. It's a machine, once it's ready they could just turn it off until the time was right.
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Aug 2, 2021 02:32
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cheetah7071 posted:I assume this is explained somewhere and I'm just forgetful, but lahabrea's plan was to cause a calamity with ultima, right? There's no way that can match up with a light-aligned calamity, is there? Doesn't that mean another shard must be on the brink of disaster. Unless I'm forgetting something important Ultima kept the primals inside alive and draining aether and honestly a big Giant Ulitma (the spell) as a light based nuke that wrecks a continent could work. And after that failed you would have King Thordan's Light Empire taking over the world.
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Aug 2, 2021 02:37
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There's no real explanation and they may not have intended the one they did arrive it at the time they were writing 2.0. It's entirely possible Ultima was just Phase 1 of a multi-part plan, or them just working to introduce sources of havoc they might hope to capitalize on later; most of their plans haven't seemed to be incredibly intricate, just them causing or creating sources of problems and waiting until they can maybe make use of them.
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Aug 2, 2021 02:40
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If Black Rose, which drained the land of aether, qualified as a Light calamity then Ultima Weapon unchecked probably would as well for the same reason. Shadowbringers establishing Light as "stagnation" goes a long way for that.
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Aug 2, 2021 02:40
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