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Unormal posted:[CoQ Steam 3-25-2015] All three keys are gone. Edit: Well that's what I get for not refreshing more frequently.
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Mar 26, 2015 05:31
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Lurkers are the worst, obviously. Not that I checked this thread in even remotely enough time. Ah well, I'd like to buy CoQ anyway.
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Mar 26, 2015 16:24
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I actually just used an old batch. Here's 3 keys that will actually work. W̶Z̶L̶T̶5̶-̶0̶5̶F̶J̶X̶-̶G̶R̶8̶0̶9̶ taken F̶6̶E̶Q̶T̶-̶X̶N̶0̶8̶E̶-̶W̶L̶L̶5̶0̶ taken V̶E̶L̶H̶V̶-̶Z̶W̶0̶X̶X̶-̶Z̶I̶0̶9̶H̶ taken Unormal fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Mar 26, 2015 |
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Mar 26, 2015 16:30
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Unormal posted:VELHV-ZW0XX-ZI09H Took this one.
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Mar 26, 2015 16:31
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Unormal posted:F6EQT-XN08E-WLL50 Thanks, got this one.
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Mar 26, 2015 16:35
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Took the last one - WZLT5-05FJX-GR809
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Mar 26, 2015 16:38
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Missed my chance again  . Is there an ETA when COQ will be available for purchase on Steam? I can't handle ascii at all anymore (big reason why I've not played ADOM again either after the relaunch).
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Mar 26, 2015 16:42
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My battleaxe chimera build normally gets really far but i just got clowned in like the first fight. I forgot how much of a liability Carapace is until you've leveled it up a few times
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Mar 26, 2015 16:43
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alansmithee posted:Missed my chance again It'll go up in early access next month, late in the month.
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Mar 26, 2015 16:48
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Clever Spambot posted:My battleaxe chimera build normally gets really far but i just got clowned in like the first fight. Axe turtles are just as alarmingly fragile as everyone else in the first couple of levels, but it becomes a lot worse when there are a bunch of ranged enemies around, since your abysmal dodge value will get you smashed to poo poo in short order. I feel like full-sized shields should be able to "block" ranged attacks, if they can't already. Advancing behind your riot shield to hit a gun-wielding enemy with your axe is post-apocalyptic as gently caress, and it'd hardly unbalance players since a) guns have really high penetration anyway and b) shields tank your DV so you'll just be eating all those partially-mitigated bullet wounds regardless. Might make certain specific enemies more bullet-resistant than they're intended to be, though.
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Mar 26, 2015 19:08
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alansmithee posted:Missed my chance again Wasn't a big part of the ADOM relaunch adding tiles?
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Mar 26, 2015 19:21
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Angry Diplomat posted:Axe turtles are just as alarmingly fragile as everyone else in the first couple of levels, but it becomes a lot worse when there are a bunch of ranged enemies around, since your abysmal dodge value will get you smashed to poo poo in short order. I'd probably want to make it an activated skill anyway, so it'd be controllable which mobs tanked up as a result.
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Mar 26, 2015 20:57
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:Wasn't a big part of the ADOM relaunch adding tiles? I thought that was only for the backer thing from kickstarter or whatever? I was waiting for the steam release for that reason. I saw some streams with the tiles and I think they look decent enough, although not a fan of the sound effects.
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Mar 27, 2015 19:53
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alansmithee posted:I thought that was only for the backer thing from kickstarter or whatever? I was waiting for the steam release for that reason. I saw some streams with the tiles and I think they look decent enough, although not a fan of the sound effects. Backing gets you access to the most recent version, but the last non-backer version (Prerelease 23, from May 2014) still has tiles. You can get it from the website's download page.
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Mar 28, 2015 04:20
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Hey there, just posting a thing for a couple of reasons. First off since people following this thread are probably (I can't be totally sure) fans of roguelikes I figured it would be a good place to talk about one I'm working on. Right now it's an honors project for this fancy college thing I'm doing but if there's enough interest in it I'd honestly quite like to make it a longer-term project and actually make a fully-featured roguelike out of it. That is a bit of a ways off but the basics are in and from here a lot of it is adding features and better algorithms for stuff like map generation. Anyway, here's a screenshot.  It's made in Unity and is in fact 3D. Far as I could tell there hasn't been much going on for roguelikes that don't use text or sprite graphics. I decided that needed to happen. Other stuff I've been adding is more advanced computational things. I obviously don't have access to the source code of stuff like Dungeons of Dredmore but far as I can tell (especially considering that a lot of roguelikes are quite old and predate home computers with things like dual cores) there hasn't been much on the topic of multithreading in the genre either. I also find that the AI in roguelikes is often wanting. It's extremely predictable and doesn't adapt to stuff all that well. What I set out to do on top of 3D graphics was utilize more modern approaches to such things. What I've been working on is AI based on neural networks that can analyze its surroundings and respond more appropriately as well as give different creatures quite different personalities. They will, for example, react differently to a player they know is powerful than to one they know nothing about and act more aggressively if they see that the player is very injured. I'm also working on making less awful UIs. Don't get me wrong; if it sounds like I'm tearing them apart I do adore roguelike games. I've been playing ADOM for like 15 years (still haven't beaten it) and think Dungeons of Dredmore is pretty great. I just think the genre lacks a few things and could be better. The second thing is I want to know what people want from the genre. As I'm working on improving things I'd like to know what needs to be improved. What games did something you liked? What ones did something you hated? What are some UI things that just really do need to be improved? What are some things that a roguelike hasn't done yet that you'd like to see done? If you could have your perfect roguelike what would it be like? Which ones were your favorites and why?
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Mar 29, 2015 20:15
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Hey there, just posting a thing for a couple of reasons. First off since people following this thread are probably (I can't be totally sure) fans of roguelikes I figured it would be a good place to talk about one I'm working on. Right now it's an honors project for this fancy college thing I'm doing but if there's enough interest in it I'd honestly quite like to make it a longer-term project and actually make a fully-featured roguelike out of it. That is a bit of a ways off but the basics are in and from here a lot of it is adding features and better algorithms for stuff like map generation. Personally, I find rogue likes that are set in an open world ala Qud, Tome to be much more enjoyable exploration and setting wise than for example Crawl where even in other areas it's still a linear descent of floors in a dungeon. Obviously dungeons are integral but having a town you can sell things at, try and rob things maybe or access to quests goes a long way, obviously this would be much more difficult in 3D than tiles or sprites. Less inventory management fuckery is always welcome, although a certain amount is almost necessary for a rogue like.
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Mar 29, 2015 20:40
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I think being able to sell things sucks because it incentivizes you to pick up items you don't want. If you want the player to have roughly a certain amount of gold at a certain point in the game, make the game drop that much gold. In my eyes it leads to way more inventory management than "pick up the items you will use and only those items" does. I think the simplistic AI is generally by design - predictability allows a good player who understands how monsters will behave to plan accordingly. Monsters being more aggressive when you are injured does sound cool, but are cautious monsters who run away scared actually engaging to fight, or will it just make tracking them down take longer? Maybe I'm a hyper-nerd but I tend to view these games as something more abstract, more like chess than final fantasy, so monsters behaving realistically isn't really something of value to me compared to them creating interesting tactical situations. You could definitely do cool things where a monster acts scared (like other monsters you've seen) and leads you into an ambush when chased, but I think it'd be hard for those things not to feel canned after seeing them enough.
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Mar 29, 2015 20:48
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Anyone thinking of making roguelike AI smarter should play a few rounds of Smart Kobold as background research.
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Mar 29, 2015 21:11
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Bob NewSCART posted:Personally, I find rogue likes that are set in an open world ala Qud, Tome to be much more enjoyable exploration and setting wise than for example Crawl where even in other areas it's still a linear descent of floors in a dungeon. Obviously dungeons are integral but having a town you can sell things at, try and rob things maybe or access to quests goes a long way, obviously this would be much more difficult in 3D than tiles or sprites. Less inventory management fuckery is always welcome, although a certain amount is almost necessary for a rogue like. I had considered that but decided to restrict this one in particular to a dungeon because of time constraints. However, the way I display the map actually can expand indefinitely depending on the data structures used to store the levels. I won't go into all the technical details but as it stands every level right now is 75x75 which is way bigger than the levels constrained to only what a console can display. Some games have expanded beyond a console window of course but that was actually one thing I kept in mind. I started with 150x150 but cut it in half (well more like 1/4 technically) because the AI became too cumbersome when the levels were that big. With simpler AI, or just not running calculations for stuff beyond a certain range, it could fairly easily be expanded into an open world. Using chunks could do that too and that wouldn't be too hard to do. More open worlds could certainly be done but this dungeon is a lot bigger than other roguelikes so far. To be honest sometimes I feel like it's just too huge currently. But then if people say "there is no such thing as too huge" I'll quit thinking about that. Yeah I'm having a poo poo load of trouble making a clean, non-cluttery inventory. To be honest I'm probably just going to give up on reducing inventory fuckery just because of how much stuff there ends up being in a roguelike. I figure a mouse-driven interface (I did not like how DoD handled this to be honest) is probably one of the better parts but again it's hard to make it easy to manage like 300 items. Or at least I can't think of a way and who doesn't like having like 90 wands? Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:I think being able to sell things sucks because it incentivizes you to pick up items you don't want. If you want the player to have roughly a certain amount of gold at a certain point in the game, make the game drop that much gold. In my eyes it leads to way more inventory management than "pick up the items you will use and only those items" does. That's another thing I'm wrestling with; I'm planning on maybe a store or two somewhere but I've been debating just chucking the idea of stores and money entirely, partly due to the premise. I was kind of debating having a small settlement of people that found themselves there but couldn't figure out how to escape and just made the best of it but then that basically mandates trading at the very least and possibly gold. You're right though; selling items leads to some issues. Granted then you have games like ADOM that made gold drat near useless. What bothered me the most was how utterly suicidal and binary stuff was. For the most part creatures were either just kind of ambling about randomly or charging at the player and trying to beat the crap out of him. I wanted the AI to look more alive and move non-randomly if it had a reason to. It's still fairly abstracted and there are still monsters that are fearless and fight to the death but I was always bothered by the fact that monsters would tend to run over traps multiple times. The way I coded it they can avoid traps they have seen or sprung themselves. They prefer to retreat over tiles that they know are safe and have ways to sort nearby tiles by desirability. They also actively seek out items to try to grab them. I started working on a relationship system where they prefer to be around creatures they are friendly to, especially if they're hurt, so drawing the player into an ambush is a possibility, as is ultimately luring the player over a trap given that the creatures will avoid dangerous tiles deliberately. Acting more cautiously isn't just a matter of running away. Injured things that know the player is powerful are less likely to become hostile and will fight more defensively. Unhurt creatures that see a badly injured player take a more aggressive approach and are not only more likely to become hostile and fight less carefully. Most things are ultimately still hostile and there's a lot of creatures whose personality is summed up as "the player must die painfully" I just wanted there to be more complexity to it. There's also a variable amount of randomness to it. I wanted things that were described as "spawn of chaos" to act like it. The advantage of using neural network-based concepts is that it makes the way creatures respond to things fuzzier. It's more computationally expensive (part of the reason that some games have very simple AI is that they were mostly programmed like 20 years ago) but that's part of why I'm experimenting with that. Computers are not Pentium 200s anymore. ToxicSlurpee fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Mar 29, 2015 |
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Mar 29, 2015 21:28
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I tried out Sproggiwood savage mode for the first time tonight. Was doing alright. Then my prayers were answered with jelly companionship. A few cleaves later...
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Mar 30, 2015 04:53
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Hey there, just posting a thing for a couple of reasons. First off since people following this thread are probably (I can't be totally sure) fans of roguelikes I figured it would be a good place to talk about one I'm working on. Right now it's an honors project for this fancy college thing I'm doing but if there's enough interest in it I'd honestly quite like to make it a longer-term project and actually make a fully-featured roguelike out of it. That is a bit of a ways off but the basics are in and from here a lot of it is adding features and better algorithms for stuff like map generation. Ahah I like dismal looking gameworlds like that, all rocks and grey things. Add a few broken barrels and skulls and stuff, maybe some grimacing faces embedded in the walls. Roll with that look. To answer your question I like roguelikes where you have some measure of permanence in the world, rather than just being one guy, meaning you get a build a base or a camp. A lot of games have tried this but none of them have done this really well yet. It's fun to build a little island of civilization in a world of horrible random deaths and monsters. Right now I'm playing Toejam & Earl, I never played Sega as a kid but I'm really loving it. You get to open presents, but you never know what's inside until you open a present of a certain type (or pay to have them identified), and some of them are horrible. It forces you to gamble a bit while still retaining control over exactly how much risk you're willing to take at a given moment. Good roguelikes have that balance down right.
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Mar 30, 2015 11:01
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Mr. Wednesday posted:I tried out Sproggiwood savage mode for the first time tonight. Was doing alright. Then my prayers were answered with jelly companionship. A few cleaves later... ...and I love it 
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Mar 30, 2015 12:51
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Shibawanko posted:Ahah I like dismal looking gameworlds like that, all rocks and grey things. Add a few broken barrels and skulls and stuff, maybe some grimacing faces embedded in the walls. Roll with that look. Oh hell yeah. I was thinking like gigantic skulls with like 20 pairs of horns and five sets of fangs instead of walls. Instead of floors it could be like the screaming souls of murdered children or something. Gotta go full dismal! Actually in retrospect that was a dumb shot to use. I've been fiddling around with stuff and just throwing it all in a test level that's all stone everything. I have dirt put in and bricks kind of implemented. Been working on other ideas for terrain but that just isn't as important as getting the moving parts all moving together. Have you played Unreal World at all? It actually does that. You can build cabins and smokehouses and stuff though. I actually thought that one way to "win" this particular one (the premise is you get shoved into a dangerous dungeon and need to escape - there are more ways than just fighting your way out the front door) was to just say "gently caress it, I live here now." As in if you build a big enough house, have X amount of resources, and have everything you need to survive indefinitely chugging along you've "won" because you aren't struggling to not die anymore. Does that strike your fancy? Toejam & Earl is definitely one of my favorite games ever. I had a cartridge of it forever ago but have no idea what happened to it. I have a working Sega still but not that game in particular. Makes me want to implement rocket shoes now...
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Mar 30, 2015 22:15
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gaijin shouldve set norway and spain to appear 3x as often as the other rb maps to spite the mongs complaining about AB maps
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Mar 30, 2015 22:43
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ToxicSlurpee posted:The advantage of using neural network-based concepts is that it makes the way creatures respond to things fuzzier. It's more computationally expensive (part of the reason that some games have very simple AI is that they were mostly programmed like 20 years ago) but that's part of why I'm experimenting with that. Computers are not Pentium 200s anymore. I've been thinking about roguelike AI recently. In my opinion, though neural networks/goal systems are often the first place that newish AI programmers go, approaches like that tend to be both uncontrollable *and* often don't actually produce the surprising results that people expect, instead responding in similar ways to similar situations time after time. I think fairly standard 'traditional' game AI (think chess), performing a deep search of future play space, picking the branch that most likely turns into the best outcome many turns out, is actually most likely to produce surprising, emergent results. However, the big challenge with it in the roguelike space is massvie amount of options that the AI has available to it. If you were to create an engine that allowed you to 1. prune the decision tree quickly and wisely for moves and 2. represent game-state in a way that's 'scoreable', I think you'd actually have a really solid basis for something someone would call 'the best AI I've ever seen in a roguelike'.
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Mar 31, 2015 02:09
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Mr. Wednesday posted:I tried out Sproggiwood savage mode for the first time tonight. Was doing alright. Then my prayers were answered with jelly companionship. A few cleaves later... This is the chilling thing about Sproggiwood. The cute Fisher Price graphics and Saturday morning cartoon sound effects belie how badly you are going to get your poo poo wrecked. It is the trapdoor spider of roguelikes. ------ Speaking of base building roguelikes have you guys seen this on kickstarter? Six days to go to unlock all the things! Halycon-6 https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/kenseto/halcyon-6-starbase-commander quote:In the midst of a disastrous war, you and your ragtag group of Terran officers discover an ancient, derelict space station, and attempt to harness its mysterious power to turn the war's tides in a grand, desperate campaign to save the human race from extinction. Gameplay: quote:--Base Building: Spend resources to build station facilities (modules) to enhance your production and technological capabilities, or build ships to help you control more territory.     RPS:http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/03/11/halycon-6-is-deep-space-nine-to-ftls-voyager/ Pocket Tactics: http://www.pockettactics.com/news/ios-news/dream-space-nine-halcyon-6-starbase-commander-a-tablet-possibility/
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Mar 31, 2015 02:47
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Unormal posted:I've been thinking about roguelike AI recently. I'm actually writing a big paper on it for the honors project side of things. It won't be done until May but if you want I could post it if you want to see how I approached it and how I got it to work. To be honest I actually decided to work on a neural network sort of thing before I decided on what type. Then I thought "well I like roguelikes!" and pitched the idea to my adviser and he was like "sounds neat. Go for it!"
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Mar 31, 2015 03:32
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ToxicSlurpee posted:I'm actually writing a big paper on it for the honors project side of things. It won't be done until May but if you want I could post it if you want to see how I approached it and how I got it to work. To be honest I actually decided to work on a neural network sort of thing before I decided on what type. Then I thought "well I like roguelikes!" and pitched the idea to my adviser and he was like "sounds neat. Go for it!" Yeah, I'd love to read it! Not that neutral networks or goal systems or whatever are bad, they can produce pretty good results. I've just been thinking about the practicalities of building truly surprising AI, and I keep coming back to just space-searching producing the widest range of behaviors the most often.
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Mar 31, 2015 03:50
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Helical Nightmares posted:The cute Fisher Price graphics and Saturday morning cartoon sound effects belie how badly you are going to get your poo poo wrecked. I just saw this quoted by someone (I think it was Unormal) on twitter being re tweeted by someone I follow (A let's player I've watched for ages) like an hour ago then I came in here and saw it here too. Weirded me out to see that connection happen out of nowhere, although he does do a lot of roguelike gameplay stuff. Robot Randy posted:gaijin shouldve set norway and spain to appear 3x as often as the other rb maps to spite the mongs complaining about AB maps I think you meant to be over here
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Mar 31, 2015 06:08
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Skwee posted:I just saw this quoted by someone (I think it was Unormal) on twitter being re tweeted by someone I follow (A let's player I've watched for ages) like an hour ago then I came in here and saw it here too. Weirded me out to see that connection happen out of nowhere, although he does do a lot of roguelike gameplay stuff. Jef was one of the first two big streamers we ever had for Caves of Qud, and really helped the game break out (Plumphelmetpunk was the other). They're both amazing storytellers, it's really a joy to watch them play stuff. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKk9eSTLisQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06f_myilcu8
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Mar 31, 2015 06:21
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I don't really give a crap about the AI in roguelikes I play. I'm competing with randomness and the game systems as a whole rather than the enemies being intelligent.
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Mar 31, 2015 08:32
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You guys talking about AI should really check out Sil. While the AI is still fairly dumb and exploitable, it's far ahead of most "just move toward the player" systems, and even has a concrete implementation of the confidence/social behaviour suggested by one poster.
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Mar 31, 2015 08:48
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TOOT BOOT posted:I don't really give a crap about the AI in roguelikes I play. I'm competing with randomness and the game systems as a whole rather than the enemies being intelligent. If you are going to have good AI, developers need to not have "trash" encounters.
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Mar 31, 2015 14:43
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But trash encounters are actually good and cool, because otherwise what are you going to use room-sweeping AoE on?
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Mar 31, 2015 14:46
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..btt posted:You guys talking about AI should really check out Sil. While the AI is still fairly dumb and exploitable, it's far ahead of most "just move toward the player" systems, and even has a concrete implementation of the confidence/social behaviour suggested by one poster. Yeah, the AI isn't really smart, but orc war parties act different than shadow spiders act different than dragons guarding a horde.
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Mar 31, 2015 14:52
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:But trash encounters are actually good and cool, because otherwise what are you going to use room-sweeping AoE on? Trash is good depending on what it does for the game. ToME trash, for instance, is rather boring, but that's mostly a function of the combat system. In ToME, non-fixed boss fights tend to be a one-sided fight one way or the other. Also, because the enemies scale up to your level, there's never really a feel that you're getting stronger and stomping threats that used to make you panic. Crawl does trash much more effectively, as basic trash can be a relief, a food source, and enemies become trash over time. Take adders, for example. At level 1, they're a huge threat, and they remain a threat for a few levels to certain character builds due to being fast and having poison. Shortly thereafter, they become a non-issue. Orcs are the same way - they start out scary (especially priests and mages) and then quickly become outclassed. It gives you a good sense of just how powerful your character is becoming. Necrodancer doesn't really have trash enemies since nearly every enemy can be a threat. Some enemies are certainly more threatening than others, but all of them make you move and all of them make you change your strategy (with the exception of some of the first enemies in the game).
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Mar 31, 2015 15:12
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I think you're overstating the effects of ToME's level-scaling. Try any given dungeon out of tier order and you'll feel the difference in power immediately. e: Which is to say, you might never get to a point where a Giant Boulder-Thrower ceases to be a relevant threat the way a Centaur does in Crawl, but all that means is you've shifted the progression from specific enemies (which don't have that much overlap from zone to zone anyways) to the zones themselves. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Mar 31, 2015 |
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Mar 31, 2015 15:28
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Level scaling isn't really a bad thing in my opinion unless it affects paltry targets as well such as rats or snakes or small animals like that. The player should be skillful enough or big enough to easily destroy or step on little creatures. When it comes to intelligent creatures with weaponry, and armor, and combat knowledge, it is something to think about. Like do you want the player to become a simulated "skillful" combatant against creatures as you gain experience, or do you want the player to experience the sort of combat a common "regular" person would experience, which is having a great struggle where it is not a simple matter of just stabbing your opponent and moving on. Real things fight for their lives, and if they are smart they wouldn't just let you stab them. Leveling and progression is nice since it allows you to have more tools at your disposal, but should it affect the "simple" attack sort of damage as much as a weapon would for example? It's like in some games your character is the skillful one, and in other games the player is the one who has to be skillful. There's a lot to consider I think, and it is nice that different games have different takes on it. It is a pretty complicated thing though, I've not even really scratched the surface, just wanted to throw in my 2 cents.
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Mar 31, 2015 15:45
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It's possible to implement "trash" enemies in interesting ways. Caves of Qud's Snapjaws are a simple example - individually, they tend to be hilariously lovely and worthless beyond the first couple of levels (where they're scary as poo poo because you are made of tissue paper and cracked crystal glass), but they have a Swarmer trait that makes them more dangerous when they attack in groups, and the stronger Snapjaw variants have an upgraded Alpha version of that trait. It's easy to underestimate a bunch of random loser Snapjaws until you wade in to axe them a question and holy poo poo that Alpha is actually smashing through your armour. At high levels you can steamroll mobs of them, but there's a good period of the early game during which they're a major tactical concern if one of the tough variants rolls up to you with a bunch of cackling hyena minions at his back. As long as a monster has a way to punch above its weight in a specific kind of situation (one which can usually be avoided or mitigated with careful/skilled play, thus applying pressure to the player to prioritize threats and think a few moves ahead), it's never really a meaningless "trash" enemy. You do have to be kind of careful about corner cases arising from special monster behaviour, however - for instance, the Chute Crabs in Qud are the most powerful thing in the universe if you spend a while avoiding them, because infinite numbers of them will ride the conveyor belt to the bottom level and when you get there and then take a step you'll get hit 25,000 times for 1-2 armour-ignoring damage each by the vast singularity of lovely crabs you didn't know were beneath your feet. Even so, weird corner cases like that are an example of how you can make enemies dangerous in unique ways (you just have to be careful not to let them become way more dangerous than you intended them to be). Also, thematic - I was pissed about losing that Qud character, but in retrospect that death was some The Mummy scarab-swarm poo poo, which is pretty rad in spite of how frustrating it was. Sproggiwood has great examples of enemies that are "trash" but really absolutely not trash if you're playing intelligently. Most of the slimes are quite easy to handle when you know their gimmick, but they still force you to dink around avoiding specific tiles or rushing to pass over them when you'd rather be fighting other stuff. Groups of weak enemies are also still a threat because they inflict small amounts of damage which produce a drain on resources and add up to a major risk if allowed to accumulate. It's fine to have enemies that are weak and die easily. As long as they do something meaningful and aren't just swarms of chaff meant to consume time and nothing else (I like ToME but it is extremely bad for this), they still have the potential to contribute to unique and challenging situations. Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Mar 31, 2015 |
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Mar 31, 2015 16:10
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Endless chaff was actually one of the things I've been trying to avoid. ADOM in particular is the one I think was the worst for this, partly because of how the chaff scales. For those that haven't played it some things in the game can summon a horde of monsters every turn for several turns in a row and I do mean a horde. Jackalwares will tend to immediately summon like 30 of the drat things immediately after being stabbed once. Jackals individually aren't tough at all and by the time you're like level 10 they can't even hurt you. The problem is that every time you kill a jackal it makes all future jackals more powerful. Most monsters work like this but there are very common summoning monsters that summon a gently caress load of one specific type of monster. You can end up with stupid bullshit like spiders with 900 hit points or jackals that can no longer miss and God help you if you run into something that summons 30 of something that also summons monsters. The challenge then is dealing with these massive hordes of monsters and how tough they can become but for the most part they just become damage sponges. It's incredibly tedious especially considering that the AI is of the "run at player -> attack player" variety for the most part. It gets even worse if you can't carve through the gigantic blob of sponges to get to the drat thing summoning them before it just summons more. Granted this kind of sort of works as the intent of ADOM is that it's kind of a race against a (mostly hidden) clock but most of the time restrictions in the game are relatively easy to deal with. Super jackals are nothing but a gigantic pain in the rear end.
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Mar 31, 2015 16:50
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