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credburn posted:The only time I've ever seen a game pull a dead character out from death in a satisfactory way was Final Fantasy VII: Remake. okay but what about 8 bringing back gilgamesh
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Jul 11, 2022 07:41
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i think about this tweet constantly w/r/t ffxiv story https://twitter.com/elfwifecity/status/1469806915307798528
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Jul 11, 2022 08:46
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moonmazed posted:i'm not really sure why people think the story is so great, it seems like the usual crystals and empires bullshit As opposed to what else? I have no idea what happens in 12, maybe it has nothing to do with crystals and empires, but what else would a Final Fantasy plot be about otherwise?
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Jul 11, 2022 08:50
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Kaubocks posted:i think about this tweet constantly w/r/t ffxiv story I tried to "rush" through Realm Reborn, and even then it still took like 60 hours  It still was a fun enough time since I was playing with friends, but after that I was absolutely done with the game and could not bring myself to give a poo poo about the story from there on out. gently caress you, FFXIV, you did that to yourself, especially with the loving Grand Company quest.
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Jul 11, 2022 09:18
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the_steve posted:Yeah, that's the biggest thing about XIV; It is, first and foremost, a Final Fantasy game, the MMORPG aspect is secondary. People always say this but I don't really get it. Gameplay-wise it's just a WoW clone, and if anything it forces you to party up significantly more than WoW. To be fair I haven't played either in over a decade, maybe they have npc parties or something now.
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Jul 11, 2022 09:51
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I downloaded the FFXIV trial a few years ago and without exaggeration spent about 2 hours delivering boxes around town before uninstalling.
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Jul 11, 2022 10:30
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I'm too old for jrpgs anymore. I tried playing ff12 again which I remember enjoying a lot, and it was a blast right up to the point where I got hit with a flashback of "oh I need to grind a few levels here, right?" And I was right, and the grinding was super boring, and I asked myself what I was doing with my life
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Jul 11, 2022 11:04
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Maybe I’m missing something but if the problem was “I was having a blast until it got grindy” then maybe the problem is just the type of JRPG you’re playing.
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Jul 11, 2022 11:29
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sephiRoth IRA posted:I'm too old for jrpgs anymore. I tried playing ff12 again which I remember enjoying a lot, and it was a blast right up to the point where I got hit with a flashback of "oh I need to grind a few levels here, right?" And I was right, and the grinding was super boring, and I asked myself what I was doing with my life So there's a broad rule with JRPGs that I've found to be true across the board past, like, the SNES: if you think you need to grind, you've hosed something up. I don't even mean that in the sense of 'if you play absolutely optimally you don't need extra levels', I mean that since around the time JRPGs went 3D (excepting stuff like deliberately overtuned Working Designs poo poo), they have broadly been designed in such a way that you can get all the way through without ever having to stop and grind. A bunch of them have optional fights intended for people who probably did grind, and it's possible that you could either spend so much time avoiding fights or gently caress up your character progression so bad that you have to do make-up work, but I can't even remember the last JRPG I played where the main progression of the game was such that you actually have to stop and grind.
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Jul 11, 2022 11:32
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Cleretic posted:So there's a broad rule with JRPGs that I've found to be true across the board past, like, the SNES: if you think you need to grind, you've hosed something up. FF12 is in a bit of an odd position for that which is that this is true if you're doing all the optional sidequests and hunts as you go. If you just want to follow through the main story you'll fall behind unless you're limiting yourself to the same party of three and letting the other three characters fall behind in levels.
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Jul 11, 2022 11:40
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RareAcumen posted:As opposed to what else? I have no idea what happens in 12, maybe it has nothing to do with crystals and empires, but what else would a Final Fantasy plot be about otherwise?  it's supposed to be a groundbreaking tour de force or some poo poo, i was expecting something other than the previous 13 games
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Jul 11, 2022 12:25
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Cleretic posted:So there's a broad rule with JRPGs that I've found to be true across the board past, like, the SNES: if you think you need to grind, you've hosed something up. In yakuza 7 there’s a wall you hit around chapter 12 that necessitates some grinding. All you really need to do is clear the battle arena that opens up around that time but the battle arena is just a series of battles one after another so it isn’t really that much different from just grinding. But yes many modern jrpgs just require that you don’t avoid every fight, and some games expect you to do sidequests. It’s not as common that you have to just go into the fields and kill monsters over and over these days.
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Jul 11, 2022 12:25
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My FF14 story was trying to get into it with a Monk and thinking well they have combos and stance dancing type poo poo so the gameplay will be a bit more active. And then it turned out they get a single combo (literally "press 1, 2, and 3 in that order, forever") and a single stance and nothing about their gameplay changes until the game deigns to dole out more options for both of those. I quickly got fed up with how completely mindless it was and dropped it.
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Jul 11, 2022 12:30
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Yeah, the crafting was more interesting than the combat in FF14
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Jul 11, 2022 12:32
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moonmazed posted:why are you continuing to play a game you clearly don't enjoy I greatly enjoy about 95% of it. Certain bosses not so much.
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Jul 11, 2022 12:40
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Cleretic posted:So there's a broad rule with JRPGs that I've found to be true across the board past, like, the SNES: if you think you need to grind, you've hosed something up. Oh for sure, I never did any grinding in other ff games (they are still too long generally) but Tenebrais posted:FF12 is in a bit of an odd position for that which is that this is true if you're doing all the optional sidequests and hunts as you go. If you just want to follow through the main story you'll fall behind unless you're limiting yourself to the same party of three and letting the other three characters fall behind in levels. This was the issue. I had my main party but if you want to make sure the others don't fall way behind without having to do a bunch of side stuff you need to grind. I had several party members like 6 levels behind Unrelated peeve: I wish games were less horny. Mostly this is related to portrayals of women. I picked up mortal kombat and while yeah, it's a game about glorification of gore and violence, that's what I bought into. I don't need every lady in the game to have her rear end and boobs out. Also Liu Kang has like a 20 pack and it's a bit overkill sephiRoth IRA has a new favorite as of 13:58 on Jul 11, 2022 |
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Jul 11, 2022 13:51
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FF12 has a looot of optional content that's not even sidequest-related per se, it can be as simple as "oh cool a cave, let's see what's in there". Like, later there'll be a big monster to hunt in there, but before you even get that Hunt, you can poke in, kill a few things, get a few items, and get out, and that's a few free levels and lots of money. That's not "grinding" per se. If you ignore all of that, you might be a bit low level, but the game also has a lot of ways to mitigate low levels - keeping up with equipment, using the Bubble, Lure and Reverse spells, and so on. Hell, there's ways to win with the 1,1,1,2,2,3 (or somesuch) challenge, which is the minimum levels of the six party members.BiggerBoat posted:I greatly enjoy about 95% of it. Certain bosses not so much. - maybe your health is just too low. They do a lot of damage, but there's still a massive difference between dying in three hits vs. four, or being able to tank a bad roll. Endgame DS3 it's no shame to have 40 Vigor - a lot of their attacks are super delayed. From loves doing that with their more recent boss designs, even the DS2 DLC bosses had that a lot, and it's suuuper noticeable in Elden Ring. You basically should never roll when you see the enemy start doing something, you want to always roll when they actually swing. It takes a bit to get into a state of mind where your first instinct isn't "boss twitches, I move" - I struggle a lot with it! But that's what you need to do to dodge everything - try to not lock on. Especially with the constant teleporting, it can be really disorienting when they break lock-on OR swing the camera around. In the second phase, there's a lot of projectiles flying around while they also attack at the same time - it can be a great idea to just run away and wait for the storm to subside, which you can do much more easily when the camera isn't locked to a point in the room
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Jul 11, 2022 14:55
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I had huge problems with that boss too and I have no idea why. I had less of an issue with Midir than those two doofuses.
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Jul 11, 2022 15:05
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Simply Simon posted:
Thanks! My health bar seems OK. I pump it up since I suck at DS pretty bad. And, strangely, I usually feel like I'm rolling too LATE. I'll try the non lock on method and try to stay behind him. And I do really love the game(s). Some of the bullshit boss fights just drag them down for me.
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Jul 11, 2022 15:12
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John Murdoch posted:My FF14 story was trying to get into it with a Monk and thinking well they have combos and stance dancing type poo poo so the gameplay will be a bit more active. And then it turned out they get a single combo (literally "press 1, 2, and 3 in that order, forever") and a single stance and nothing about their gameplay changes until the game deigns to dole out more options for both of those. I quickly got fed up with how completely mindless it was and dropped it. Wow, way to neglect to mention that you have to stand behind the enemy when you press 1 but to the side of the enemy when you press 2, you're really underselling the depth 
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Jul 11, 2022 16:23
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Tunicate posted:okay but what about 8 bringing back gilgamesh I still want PlatinumGames to make a game where you play as Gilgamesh and the entire plot is you traveling to other dimensions to beat up the heroes from those worlds so you can steal their cool magical swords
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Jul 11, 2022 16:53
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Honestly the standing still is what broke me off of most MMOs. It probably sounds petty but I just can't get over the animation making no difference in whether you or the enemy connect with a given attack. You can't for example bait out an attack and then back up and it'll miss. If you can target, you can hit, so there's no point in sidestepping around the enemy attacks and stuff, just stand still. It's better for the developers that way for sure and I get why gameplay would be impossible with dozens of players present, but it makes every fight look like this to me: edit: The coolest MMO footage I've seen was from FF14 I think, it was a gif of one of those huge dozen-some player raids. The boss did a ground attack that swept from one side to the other and so from above there was this smooth wave of the players jumping and it was very neat. I wish more MMOs did stuff like that regularly, instead of confining it to boss fights and special encounters. CJacobs has a new favorite as of 17:13 on Jul 11, 2022 |
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Jul 11, 2022 17:04
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i want to say in Tera Online you could dodge and stuff like that
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Jul 11, 2022 17:09
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CJacobs posted:edit: The coolest MMO footage I've seen was from FF14 I think, it was a gif of one of those huge dozen-some player raids. The boss did a ground attack that swept from one side to the other and so from above there was this smooth wave of the players jumping and it was very neat. I wish more MMOs did stuff like that regularly, instead of confining it to boss fights and special encounters. FF14 leans really hard into positioning in boss fights, sometimes a bit too much. Even boss fights in dungeons can have multiple different movement gimmicks to deal with. I just did the Tower of Zot, and the final battle is the previous 2 bosses added onto a new boss, so now you have 3 different things firing off at the same time.
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Jul 11, 2022 17:37
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CJacobs posted:edit: The coolest MMO footage I've seen was from FF14 I think, it was a gif of one of those huge dozen-some player raids. The boss did a ground attack that swept from one side to the other and so from above there was this smooth wave of the players jumping and it was very neat. I wish more MMOs did stuff like that regularly, instead of confining it to boss fights and special encounters. FF14 doesn't have jumping over mechanics like that, at least none that I've ever heard of. Was the fight a big dragon fought on a shoreline? If so, you're thinking of Guild Wars 2.
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Jul 11, 2022 18:12
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I know exactly what fight he's talking about. It's Sephirot from Heavensward; there's a mechanic where you use an updraft to fly above an arena-wide sweep.
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Jul 11, 2022 18:29
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Cleretic posted:I know exactly what fight he's talking about. It's Sephirot from Heavensward; there's a mechanic where you use an updraft to fly above an arena-wide sweep. I looked it up and it was this move, yeah, great recollection for a game so big: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdV_bzJgRxE&t=89s Was just unexpected and cool to see an attack you had to physically get out of the way of, although looking at it now I guess the jumping's not really something you choose to do so much as you are being jump-ed so to speak. I also like the warning markers on the ground which you juke semi-regularly, would be cool if more regular enemies did it more often but I get the game would be very different if you had every class moving around all the time. CJacobs has a new favorite as of 19:25 on Jul 11, 2022 |
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Jul 11, 2022 19:21
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Per Aspera is the first time I've seen an interface that makes all the stupid boops and bips and beeps and trdrdrdrdrdrs that computers in movies do. It's always been kind of a pet peeve of mine how in movies, computers are constantly making sounds. Like, text can't appear on screen without an accompanying electric sound. You can't scroll without a little twitter to go with it. It's maddening. And it's almost killing whatever calm, low-key experience I'm supposed to be having in this game. I've never seen a game make so much loving noise just by my mouse being moved. There must be 19 different sound effects depending on what your mouse cursor happens to fly over.
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Jul 11, 2022 19:35
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Kit Walker posted:I still want PlatinumGames to make a game where you play as Gilgamesh and the entire plot is you traveling to other dimensions to beat up the heroes from those worlds so you can steal their cool magical swords This is pretty much what the Soulsborne games are to me, so the premise is solid at least.
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Jul 11, 2022 21:03
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The real reason you can't speed run the ARR story is so they can sell you story skips. Square is well aware that no one likes ARR's story and that it sucks to play.
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Jul 12, 2022 01:41
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ARR's base story is padded because they were still in the hellish development marathon at that point and were scrambling to get the postgame content and Heavensward done, and were worried about players getting to the end too fast and running out of stuff to do. (Not to mention the writing is all basically a first draft because the scramble meant there was literally no time whatsoever for revisions.) The work they've done since then has helped make the content flow better (most recently, splitting up the climactic dungeon) but they've not, as far as I know, actively taken out anything.
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Jul 12, 2022 01:50
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Crowetron posted:This is pretty much what the Soulsborne games are to me, so the premise is solid at least. I never thought of it that way but you're 100% correct
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Jul 12, 2022 01:50
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Maxwell Lord posted:ARR's base story is padded because they were still in the hellish development marathon at that point and were scrambling to get the postgame content and Heavensward done, and were worried about players getting to the end too fast and running out of stuff to do. (Not to mention the writing is all basically a first draft because the scramble meant there was literally no time whatsoever for revisions.) Wasn't the big thing a year or two ago "we're trimming ARR and making it shorter?" Edit: yes they have taken things out https://www.vg247.com/final-fantasy-14-patch-53-remove-quests-flying
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Jul 12, 2022 02:11
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Yeah, the ARR stort got pruned recently, removing all the quests that were actual outright busywork rather than introducing new places/ideas/people. It's still not fast, it doesn't hit the heights of later expansions, and it left a lot of quests that feel like busywork but are subtly introducung important stuff, but it's not actually bad, it's just not the part people actually talk about when the laud FFXIV. Hell, I think some of the ARR patch content is outright better than parts of Heavensward.
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Jul 12, 2022 02:29
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Honestly the first time I got through (which was well before Endwalker) my thought was "Well, if that's the worst of it then I'm sold." There are a lot of things in ARR's story that I like, the way it incorporates the calamity, the degree to which it already starts to center the player as genuinely important, the basic character dynamics (which would get developed much further, obviously)- it's sorta the big dumb action movie plot where you save the realm from the evil invaders but despite the padding I found that enough to march through. And then the end of 2.55 happened and I was like "okay now I gotta see what happens next" and the hooks were in.
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Jul 12, 2022 02:41
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I think what it comes down to is, while FFXIV does get much better later on, if you're not enjoying ARR at least a little bit it's probably not worth sticking around for the rest. Like, if during ARR you're thinking "this is kind of dull but I'm having some fun I guess" there's still a good chance you'll love the later stuff, but if you're thinking "I hate single every moment of this" the later stuff probably won't be enough to make up for it. On topic, thing dragging a game down - the Cuphead DLC is very well animated but there's a lot of little projectiles or obstacles all over the screen and my dumb eyes can't keep track of it all. I'd almost wish for a smaller monitor so I could keep track of everything going on more easily, but that'd probably just make my tendency to not notice things until they hit me even worse.
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Jul 12, 2022 02:47
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Yeah ARR I enjoyed simply because I liked learning the mechanics and doing gathering and crafting stuff, and if the core gameplay loops aren't working for ya then you're not gonna enjoy much going forward.
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Jul 12, 2022 02:50
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Nuebot posted:The real reason you can't speed run the ARR story is so they can sell you story skips. Wait, what? You can buy... I assume with real money... the ability to skip the story parts? This feels so gross. It's like winking at the player winking at the developer.
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Jul 12, 2022 03:18
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A lot of MMOs offer that these days. For games that really are all about the end content I get it.
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Jul 12, 2022 03:32
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credburn posted:Wait, what? You can buy... I assume with real money... the ability to skip the story parts? There are two skips, one is a job skip, that brings your player up to the max level on that job. They are generally intended for an alternate job. FF14 lets you change jobs at will, so you can level up to max in one job, but if you don't feel like going through the entire process on a second one, there you go. But there are weirdos who don't do that, so there are story skips.
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Jul 12, 2022 03:41
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