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Well Vader's problem with Admiral Ozzel was "he came out of lightspeed too soon." I was always under the impression that Vader wanted to basically drop out of hyperspace in orbit above the rebel base and pound it with turbolasers, shock and awe style. Element of surprise and all that.
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Jul 9, 2011 21:20
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^^^^ That it what I always thought but then I am now confused by quotes from TESBquote:INTERIOR: HOTH -- REBEL BASE -- COMMAND CENTER Reading it I don't know what the plan was. I suppose Vader wanted to come out of lightspeed very far away so as not to be detected. But then how would they attack? euphronius fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Jul 9, 2011 |
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Jul 9, 2011 21:22
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euphronius posted:^^^^ That it what I always thought but then I am now confused by quotes from TESB Maybe if they weren't detected, they could pinpoint the generators and launch a lightning strike to take out the shields. You could probably sneak a wing of TIEs under the perimeter of the shield before they're detected and they could overwhelm the Rebel Starfighters and take out the generator
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Jul 9, 2011 21:35
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I've always just assumed that the plan was to jump out to the outskirts of the system, scan Hoth to find the base, then jump in closer and smash it before it could get any defenses online. Ozzel jumped in too close, and because he wasn't in the right position to immediately attack it gave the Rebels time to prepare.
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Jul 10, 2011 00:50
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I just rewatched the initial scenes of ESB, and General Rieekan says something to the effect of "with all the meteor activity in the system, it's going to be difficult to spot approaching ships". So it makes sense that the fleet would have approached via the asteroid field and scout Hoth with impunity.
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Jul 10, 2011 03:11
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Star Wars Episode 1: What if Qui-Gon lived? I'm on summer vacation, and I have a bit of time to draw a bit more. I was thinking about an old (yes...) fanfic idea in the vein of Infinities, using the Prequels as fodder for new storyline branches. Drawn as a comic, obviously. Would anyone actually be interested in reading this, or is the fandom far too saturated and it would be a waste of time?
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Jul 11, 2011 14:43
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Give it a comedy slant and just bomb head long into parody with Qui-Gon calling out everything retarded so far now with Star Wars. Starting with Jar-Jar being given political power.
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Jul 11, 2011 15:18
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SeanBeansShako posted:Give it a comedy slant and just bomb head long into parody with Qui-Gon calling out everything retarded so far now with Star Wars. "What if Jar-Jar was Sith Lord?"
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Jul 11, 2011 15:37
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Mahoshonen posted:Maybe if they weren't detected, they could pinpoint the generators and launch a lightning strike to take out the shields. You could probably sneak a wing of TIEs under the perimeter of the shield before they're detected and they could overwhelm the Rebel Starfighters and take out the generator Tactics and strategy don't exist in the Star Wars movie universe. Everything in the movie (especially in ROTJ) falls apart under any scrutiny: 1) Rescue Han plan makes no sense 2) Throw the entire rebel fleet against the entire Imperial fleet and hope for the best 3) The Emperor seducing Luke through ... nothing ...? 4) Ewoks armed with sticks defeat an entire garrison of the Empire's best troops? It's a good movie because all that doesn't matter because we love the characters so much.
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Jul 11, 2011 16:36
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The rebels didn't expect to see such a large imperial fleet at Endor though. It was, as Admiral Akbar said, a...
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Jul 11, 2011 16:42
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Slantedfloors posted:I've always just assumed that the plan was to jump out to the outskirts of the system, scan Hoth to find the base, then jump in closer and smash it before it could get any defenses online. In the final analysis it made no difference. The rebels already knew the empire was coming and had begun preparation for evacuation before the fleet even got there.
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Jul 11, 2011 16:44
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:The rebels didn't expect to see such a large imperial fleet at Endor though. It was, as Admiral Akbar said, a... You send the entire fleet to a battle with out any recon? Ok.
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Jul 11, 2011 16:45
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Didn't they mention causing some sort of distraction with a big Rebel fleet elsewhere?
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Jul 11, 2011 16:47
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I'm sure that the Battle of Endor wookiepedia page will go into every known detail.
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Jul 11, 2011 17:50
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Jerk McJerkface posted:You send the entire fleet to a battle with out any recon? Han did a flyby on his way to Endor and presumably had to've seen Vader's ludicrous flagship, but, as ever, it's best not to think about military logic in a movie that has a commando team in jungle fatigues bring along an unmodified largely kneeless golden reflective butler droid for a sneak attack.
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Jul 11, 2011 19:25
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Karma Tornado posted:Han did a flyby on his way to Endor and presumably had to've seen Vader's ludicrous flagship, but, as ever, it's best not to think about military logic in a movie that has a commando team in jungle fatigues bring along an unmodified largely kneeless golden reflective butler droid for a sneak attack. Protocol droids versed in over 6 million languages have some tactical use on foreign worlds!
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Jul 11, 2011 19:29
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Amrosorma posted:Protocol droids versed in over 6 million languages have some tactical use on foreign worlds! Especially ones that are bright gold...
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Jul 11, 2011 19:46
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Jerk McJerkface posted:Especially ones that are bright gold... Easiest way to figure out where the sharpshooters are 
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Jul 11, 2011 19:49
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The funniest part of ROTJ is that nothing that happens on the Death Star with the Emperor, Luke and Vader means a drat thing. Even if Luke falls to the dark side, gets killed by Vader or whatever, they're still probably going to die and the Empire will lose the battle because Lando Calrissian is the only dude in the universe who gets poo poo done.
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Jul 11, 2011 19:55
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Kemper Boyd posted:The funniest part of ROTJ is that nothing that happens on the Death Star with the Emperor, Luke and Vader means a drat thing. Even if Luke falls to the dark side, gets killed by Vader or whatever, they're still probably going to die and the Empire will lose the battle because Lando Calrissian is the only dude in the universe who gets poo poo done. Wedge Antilles is a stone cold motherfucking operator that entire sequence. Also Luke literally says what you're saying out loud and the Emperor's like "gently caress your stupid friends I have a giant British space navy haw haw haw."
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Jul 11, 2011 20:00
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I'm sure that the Battle of Endor wookiepedia page will go into every known detail. Has the 'Die dickheads' guy got his own over the top back story yet?
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Jul 11, 2011 20:01
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Kemper Boyd posted:The funniest part of ROTJ is that nothing that happens on the Death Star with the Emperor, Luke and Vader means a drat thing. Even if Luke falls to the dark side, gets killed by Vader or whatever, they're still probably going to die and the Empire will lose the battle because Lando Calrissian is the only dude in the universe who gets poo poo done. Lando is also the only major person of color in the trilogy :hmm:
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Jul 11, 2011 20:02
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Kemper Boyd posted:The funniest part of ROTJ is that nothing that happens on the Death Star with the Emperor, Luke and Vader means a drat thing. Even if Luke falls to the dark side, gets killed by Vader or whatever, they're still probably going to die and the Empire will lose the battle because Lando Calrissian is the only dude in the universe who gets poo poo done. Seconding Karma Tornado here: Wedge motherfucking Antilles would like a word with you. 
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Jul 11, 2011 20:07
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Aciid c0d3r posted:Does anyone have that picture of all the different types of TIE fighters? I thought I saw it here, but I can't seem to find it. 
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Jul 11, 2011 20:19
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Last one on the bottom right just looks obscene.
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Jul 11, 2011 20:26
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I always thought it was really stupid to design a spacecraft that has two huge (proportionally) wings on the sides of the cockpit, obscuring a tremendous amount of the pilot's field of vision. Watching Empire for the first time I felt vindicated when the asteroids smashed the hell out of the TIE fighters.
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Jul 11, 2011 21:02
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Jerk McJerkface posted:Tactics and strategy don't exist in the Star Wars movie universe. Everything in the movie (especially in ROTJ) falls apart under any scrutiny: Oh god I can't believe I'm going to do this. 1. From what I can figure, it actually went according to plan. Why else would Luke put his saber in R2D2. It sorta makes sense in a bizarre 'thinking 10 steps ahead' way. 2. The entire Imperial fleet wasn't supposed to be there (It's a trap). The rebels threw everything they had at the Death Star because they knew it was all or nothing this time. The Death Star was minimally guarded because of the shield. The plan was to disable the shield, jump in, and quickly take out the now unprotected Death Star. Of course the shield was up longer than they wanted, the massive Imperial fleet jumped in, and the Death Star's super laser was fully operational. 3) The Emperor wasn't so much seducing Luke as we was goading him into giving into the dark side. It almost worked. 4) You got me there man.
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Jul 11, 2011 21:24
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I'm still partial to the Endor holocaust theory to make me feel better about #4.
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Jul 11, 2011 21:29
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LLJKSiLk posted:I'm still partial to the Endor holocaust theory to make me feel better about #4. I come bearing science! Or its Star Wars nearest equivalent.
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Jul 11, 2011 21:34
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Amrosorma posted:Lando is also the only major person of color in the trilogy :hmm: Admiral Ackbar is clearly brown/orange.
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Jul 11, 2011 21:39
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Joe Don Baker posted:Oh god I can't believe I'm going to do this. They had three years to come up with the plan. The only person involved that they didn't tell gently caress all to was C-3P0, as he is a giant metal liability. Since he's presented as the point of view character, it comes off as a surprising series of events instead of a caper in a heist movie.
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Jul 11, 2011 21:40
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Jerk McJerkface posted:4) Ewoks armed with sticks defeat an entire garrison of the Empire's best troops? I remember that someone in here tried to explain away the stick thing by saying that armour that is bullet/laser proof isn't necessarily stab proof and seeing as Stormtroopers probably spend more time being shot than stabbed they may not have known that their armour might not have been as effective as they would hope. Of course that doesn't explain how the army small bears that were using sharp sticks were able to turn this small, potential element of surprise into a victory.
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Jul 11, 2011 21:40
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I think it's worth noting that the Ewoks were getting hammered pretty hard for a decent portion of that battle. They won because they were able to use some traps to their advantage (which were only useful in one specific location), had Han and Leia taking potshots at any trooper near them from cover, and Chewie hijacked an AT-ST and started kicking rear end. As for the Rebels jumping their entire fleet to the DS2 and into an ambush, I recall Mon Mothma saying something along the lines of 'The Imperial fleet is spread throughout the Galaxy trying to engage us and the Emperor is on board the DS2. This is the best possible chance we have.' It all ties into the Emperor's reveal that the superlaser is working. It all shows what a scheming genius he is beautifully and makes it all the more amazing when the good guys win in the end.
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Jul 11, 2011 21:58
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Karma Tornado posted:They had three years to come up with the plan. The only person involved that they didn't tell gently caress all to was C-3P0, as he is a giant metal liability. Since he's presented as the point of view character, it comes off as a surprising series of events instead of a caper in a heist movie. One year, but your point still stands. There's three years between ANH and ESB, but only one year between ESB and ROTJ.
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Jul 11, 2011 22:03
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Joe Don Baker posted:1. From what I can figure, it actually went according to plan. Why else would Luke put his saber in R2D2. It sorta makes sense in a bizarre 'thinking 10 steps ahead' way. Break down the plan: 1) Lando goes in ahead of time to become one of Jabba's guards (he does nothing until after Luke already has his saber and is killing everyone. 2) Get Leia (and Chewbacca) captured to get Han thawed out 3) Get 3PO and R2 captured 4) Get Luke captured. What would have happened if he put Leia and Chewie into the Rancor pit (like he did to EVERYONE we see displeasing Jabba), or what if he threw the thawed Han in there? What would have happened if R2 hadn't been on the deck? What did 3P0 do? What did Lando do? Nothing. It's really such a bizarre plan. It basically only exists to get all three characters back together, which it does accomplish but it's just never made sense. Why didn't the rebels (or just Luke) show up and kill everyone. It's exactly what happened anyways. It seems that Luke was planning on trying to use Jedi mind trick on Jabba, which failed, so on to plan B: MURDER EVERYONE. Karma Tornado posted:They had three years to come up with the plan. The only person involved that they didn't tell gently caress all to was C-3P0, as he is a giant metal liability. Since he's presented as the point of view character, it comes off as a surprising series of events instead of a caper in a heist movie. I honestly don't think it was written that cleverly, like The Sting or Oceans 11. It's just lazy writing, honestly: 1) Get them together 2) Kill everyone 3) Escape Super-NintendoUser fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Jul 11, 2011 |
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Jul 11, 2011 22:13
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It takes a special kind of blind fanboyism to think that the "plan" to rescue Han makes any sort of sense at all.
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Jul 11, 2011 22:23
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I think the "lando does nothing" part of the plan makes sense if you think of it as a "keep an eye on frozen han, step in and kick rear end if he throws him to the rancor. Dont do anything drastic untill we come up with a plan".
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Jul 11, 2011 22:42
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that awful man posted:Excellent! You are awesome! Thank you!
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Jul 12, 2011 04:01
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We seriously need a PYF Star Wars image thread. All of these are canon.       http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Santa_Claus 
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Jul 12, 2011 06:36
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Jerk McJerkface posted:Break down the plan: I always thought it was full of redundancies. The primary plan was for Leia to get out with Han. I assume Lando was going to get Chewbacca out but this was thwarted when Jabba got wise. If that didn't work, Luke would try his Jedi powers. If that failed and things got ugly, his lightsaber had been smuggled in. He actually tried to pull off the assassination with a blaster but was surprised by the trapdoor. The one thing I don't really understand is why the lightsaber had to be smuggled in since Luke easily handled the guards. Maybe Boba Fett would have taken it away because MANDALORIANS or something. Basically, it actually was pretty messy from the standpoint of the characters as well.
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Jul 12, 2011 06:47
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