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cheetah7071 posted:Emet-Selch wanted to be proven wrong but there's no way any living being could measure up to the memories in his head. So he hoped and dreamed of finally being able to rest while casting aside any real opportunities to re-evaluate his preconceptions. When finally a sundered being overcomes one of his meaningless and intentionally impossible tests of worthiness, his immediate response is anger which only fades when he's delivering his final words and has no choice but to entrust the world to you, because he's loving dead yea this is where I land on it, there probably really was a part of him that would have loved to be proven wrong, he's genuinely shocked when he gets a glimpse of the WoL's Ascian form and all, but he'd spent so long in a literal dream world there's just no way ANYONE could live up to it. You even see a glimpse of this in the city, one of the first things you say is pointing out he's going to give life to simulations rather than actual people and he kinda just goes 'yea I may have gotten a little dramatic with my details'. Even his ideal home wasn't a 1:1 recreation, there's 100% a reality where Emet gets his wish and resents the reborn Ascians as 'not like he remembered them' because he...kinda doesn't remember them, he remembers his emotions and longing. The anger comes out when the WoL begins to really beat him because he has to know somewhat that he's being proven wrong and he's getting angry because it's not how he wanted it to be. The WoL and a bunch of fuckin nerds standing up to him does prove him wrong but it doesn't magically make the pain he felt go away, or heal the memories of his people and loved ones dying around him, so he lashes out and insists that actually gently caress you you didn't REALLY prove him wrong because now you have to do ANOTHER thing to do it FOR REALLY REAL. It all climaxes in 'gently caress it, FIGHT ME YOU SCRUB' because he's out of options, we passed all the tests, he never even manages to kill our Scion buddies in his big tantrum (plot armor helps, yea, but still) and all he's left with is 'either I'm going to kill you and not have to think about this poo poo anymore or you're going to kill me and I can just loving rest finally'.
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Aug 3, 2021 03:06
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Double post but I was watching yet another 'watch this streamer react to the SHB ending' vid and finally noticed something that a lot have likely already seen. When Emet does his big 'let's cast off our titles' thing he says 'the one to awaken OUR brothers'. Everyone else but Elidibus is dead and ol Eli's gone purpose-crazy so there's no way that's anything but him in his own weird 'gently caress it one of us is gonna die here anyway' way acknowledging the WoL is indeed his peer after all, isn't it?
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Aug 5, 2021 01:11
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sexpig by night posted:Double post but I was watching yet another 'watch this streamer react to the SHB ending' vid and finally noticed something that a lot have likely already seen. When Emet does his big 'let's cast off our titles' thing he says 'the one to awaken OUR brothers'. Everyone else but Elidibus is dead and ol Eli's gone purpose-crazy so there's no way that's anything but him in his own weird 'gently caress it one of us is gonna die here anyway' way acknowledging the WoL is indeed his peer after all, isn't it? I'm up to Mt. Gulg in my replaythrough and it is...extremely vague whether he recognizes you or not. Some of the little things he says are just very curious.
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Aug 5, 2021 01:44
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TheWorldsaStage posted:I'm up to Mt. Gulg in my replaythrough and it is...extremely vague whether he recognizes you or not. Some of the little things he says are just very curious. He sees flashes of Azem in you, but he's torn between whether he wants to accept it or not. Kind of a "Dare I get my hopes up?" sort of thing. He's trying to get you to step up to the plate and possibly see if you're worth Awakening as an Ascian.
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Aug 5, 2021 03:06
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I choose to think of it this way. Imagine you keep seeing the back of someone's head, 20 feet away, in a crowd that you might have gone to elementary school with, and were friends with, but you haven't seen in decades. That's the same sort of feel Emet-Selch gets whenever he looks at the WoL throughout that section of ShB. And then when you're about to fight him and he perceives your Ancient soul, after you Rejoin with Ardbert, it's like he finally got to see you face-on and yeah, you are the person he remembers, and you're about to kick his rear end. Edit: Hythlodaeus recognizes you straight away though because that dude was like, your real good friend.
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Aug 5, 2021 03:21
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Also Emet-Selch's stray "Hythlodaeus will realise the truth" thought probably allowed him to see through his self-deception.
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Aug 5, 2021 03:24
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so the consensus is that the robed figure that brings you back out of the rift in the Elidibus fight is basically Azem's memory of Emet?
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Aug 5, 2021 04:07
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FAUXTON posted:so the consensus is that the robed figure that brings you back out of the rift in the Elidibus fight is basically Azem's memory of Emet? More like a fragment Emet left behind I think?
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Aug 5, 2021 04:12
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It is Emet-Selch, there's a short story on the Shadowbringers site that describes the event from his perspective, but the narrative was also implying this was possible because of that little gift Hythlodeus mentioned. What that means as regards to his state of being or the nature of the lifestream or whatever is unknown, but he is very much dead.
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Aug 5, 2021 04:14
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FAUXTON posted:so the consensus is that the robed figure that brings you back out of the rift in the Elidibus fight is basically Azem's memory of Emet? It doesn't appear that Azem's crystal actually had memories in it, at least from what I can tell. It seemed to be more of a premade spell to bring in a shade of The Sad Genocide-Committer or something. Emet made that in secret, which suggests it was made after Azem left the Convocation. And all evidence suggests that the two actually were NOT on good terms afterwards. Remember that in the 'Azem Versus the Volcano' short story (set post-Zodiark and post-Elidibus return, but pre-Hydaelyn), Emet is hearing all about it from Elidibus second-or-third-hand. It didn't sound like that was just a momentary lapse in keeping in touch, either, it seemed like they genuinely don't talk anymore, and that was Azem's decision.
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Aug 5, 2021 04:19
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I just reread the short story and nothing indicates there was a falling out between Azem and Emet-Selch, just that Azem went charging off without telling Emet-Selch.
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Aug 5, 2021 04:21
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Cleretic posted:
This is entirely projection on your part. The whole bit as written is Azem is going on another surprise adventure doing something without the consent of the council to take action on her own, with Hydro's help which seems to be something that happens often given how Emet speaks of her and how Elidi notes Azem's habit of adventuring. This isn't 'They had a falling out' it's 'Grumpy by the books fuddy duddy annoyed by Goof Ball Antics of his two best friends.' ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Aug 5, 2021 |
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Aug 5, 2021 04:26
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Ironslave posted:It is Emet-Selch, there's a short story on the Shadowbringers site that describes the event from his perspective, but the narrative was also implying this was possible because of that little gift Hythlodeus mentioned. What that means as regards to his state of being or the nature of the lifestream or whatever is unknown, but he is very much dead. A “complete” soul in the life stream could be an interesting plot point.
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Aug 5, 2021 04:56
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hobbesmaster posted:A “complete” soul in the life stream could be an interesting plot point. I've been left wondering how they'd treat it if it ever comes up again with Emet-Selch and Lahabrea. Do they remain complete when reincarnated? Can they be reincarnated? Does dying fracture their soul like every other being in existence? Part of me hopes it might get brought up in the 6.X raid series, since we know Lahabrea is somehow connected to it.
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Aug 5, 2021 05:05
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Lahabrea was absorbed by a giant sword so I think his soul is gone.
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Aug 5, 2021 05:07
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hobbesmaster posted:Lahabrea was absorbed by a giant sword so I think his soul is gone. Your soul and your aether are different things, as per the Pixies and other sources. Despite your soul being dense aether, and the words being used interchangeably in many parts of the game. His aether was consumed but whether or not his soul got et a big shrug, especially in light of them extrapolating further on these things recently--even the souls of the people sacrificed to Zodiark could supposedly be returned to life. I'd suspect not because the game's worked at being more hopeful and the idea of someone being extinguished in sum totality forever is bleak, and because it introduces more potential future story options.
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Aug 5, 2021 05:12
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I'm not entirely sure about aether thermodynamics but I think Lahabrea getting absorbed into a primal, and then the primal getting killed and releasing it's absorbed aether back into the world, would probably release Lahabrea back into the lifestream?
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Aug 5, 2021 05:18
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Gruckles posted:I'm not entirely sure about aether thermodynamics but I think Lahabrea getting absorbed into a primal, and then the primal getting killed and releasing it's absorbed aether back into the world, would probably release Lahabrea back into the lifestream? Don't forget that the item the primal used to absorb his aether was then used to power a dragon, and then another primal, and then got skewered by Estinien. The thing Lahabrea was in basically got aetherically digested three times between his absorption and destruction. There is zero chance that Lahabrea's aether was just fine by the end. However he's coming back in Pandaemonium it's not by natural reincarnation cycles, given that his memories of being Lahabrea wouldn't even be included. The only Ascian that might be in the natural reincarnation cycle now is Mitron. And... well, I don't see Mitron coming back, since I'm pretty sure nobody wants him around anymore.
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Aug 5, 2021 05:44
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FFXIV 7.0: Boss Baby.
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Aug 5, 2021 06:14
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Weird character interaction that I want to see: Midgardsomr and Feo Ul. I know Middy is currently sleeping now that Omega's dealt with. But are you telling me that the WoL has entered a pact with two powerful entities, who both have small fragment forms of themselves show up to interact with them, and we'll never see them interact? Think of the comedic potential!
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Aug 5, 2021 06:44
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"Oh look, a new roommate!"
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Aug 5, 2021 07:03
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we're one character off from having an entire F.R.I.E.N.D.S. situation up in wol head fray ardbert midgardsormr feo ul reaper demon who's next???
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Aug 5, 2021 07:16
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Mister Olympus posted:we're one character off from having an entire F.R.I.E.N.D.S. situation up in wol head We have Myste, too.
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Aug 5, 2021 07:58
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I really wanted to see all our new The First friends interact with Hildibrand  He literally gets sucked through a portal!! Come on!!!
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Aug 5, 2021 12:47
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Jetrauben posted:Yeah, Emet was stuck. If he ever simply conceded the world as it was truly deserved to exist then he would be letting everyone he loved down. Turns out being enough of a megalomaniac to go "yep, gonna genocide all this life we just created because it's not Amaurotine" has consequences. 
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Aug 5, 2021 12:57
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sexpig by night posted:Yea it's not that Laha has no agenda, it's that he has ONE very specific and time based agenda, and spends most of ARR waiting for it to finish, so he's just kinda loving around. When I was watching streamers going through ARR it always stuck out as weird that these super endgame bad guys are out here siccing gobbues and whatnot on random citizens, but it makes sense in retrospect. The ascians are playing a long game and constantly causing problems to destabilize everything, same way they built these giant empires to crumble. Lots of people probably die due to ascian bullying that we don't see, we just happened to survive everything because our character is the protagonist.
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Aug 5, 2021 14:03
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Ascians, "today I will cause problems on purpose" incarnate
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Aug 5, 2021 14:28
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Mister Olympus posted:we're one character off from having an entire F.R.I.E.N.D.S. situation up in wol head Yep https://twitter.com/surfacage/status/1406692851296075776?s=20 there's a couple follow-up comics in the replies too
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Aug 5, 2021 15:18
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a kitten posted:Yep Ahh I'm so happy someone posted one of those. They're really good!
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Aug 5, 2021 16:35
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Mister Olympus posted:we're one character off from having an entire F.R.I.E.N.D.S. situation up in wol head god I can't wait until we summon ourselves in the endwalker msq
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Aug 6, 2021 05:50
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Azem isn't us though, just a person who we inherited our soul from.
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Aug 6, 2021 07:50
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Our relation to Azem right now is super unclear, and basically exists as 'definitely some nebulous kind of thing' until Endwalker puts its foot down. There's definitely a connecting line, but there's enough vague gray area for people to make whatever claims they want, and for the developers to define it as whatever they want whenever it inevitably comes back up. The only information we really have is that Azem's gender matches the WoL's, but everything could quite easily be instead interpreted as 'you embody the same spirit of altruism so rare in people' or something, and it would only be 'retconning' by Moofia's definition. Of course, now someone's gonna get mad at me for not having come to the same conclusions as them. But I'm saying it like it is: there's enough left unsaid for them to go in a different direction.
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Aug 6, 2021 08:28
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No it's not ambiguous at all, we're their reincarnation. If anyone gets mad at you it'll be because you ignored the story and made up your own version of events again
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Aug 6, 2021 08:41
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multijoe posted:No it's not ambiguous at all, we're their reincarnation. If anyone gets mad at you it'll be because you ignored the story and made up your own version of events again I literally watched the Etched in the Stars cutscene that talks about Azem while writing that post. If you have other evidence, please put it forward, because that one scene is entirely composed of hints without admissions.
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Aug 6, 2021 09:08
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If being someone's reincarnation made you that person, the game would not have Seto state explicitly that you are not defined by the soul you bear. edit Cleretic you may be forgetting about the cutscene in which Hythlodaeus states that surely Emet can see the hint or [him/her] in you and the short story which refers to [him/her] using your WoL's gender. SirSamVimes fucked around with this message at 09:15 on Aug 6, 2021 |
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Aug 6, 2021 09:13
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We're as much Azem as we are Ardbert. We are, but we're not.
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Aug 6, 2021 09:23
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SirSamVimes posted:If being someone's reincarnation made you that person, the game would not have Seto state explicitly that you are not defined by the soul you bear. I wasn't forgetting about either, but again, we're not in the 'surefire evidence' category yet. They're certainly hinting it very loudly, but I'd put it at, like, 80% chance of being right. And that 20% chance obviously isn't 'no, that's not true, don't be ridiculous', they'd clearly be playing on the assumption they set up. I'm not slapping it all down. I'm saying there's room for them to surprise us on that, and we shouldn't be tying ourselves to that interpretation. Terper posted:We're as much Azem as we are Ardbert. We are, but we're not. And of course we're not Ardbert. We actually succeed at things.
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Aug 6, 2021 09:32
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We are Azem about as much as we are the countless other number of people our soul has been recycled through.
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Aug 6, 2021 10:10
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Cleretic posted:And of course we're not Ardbert. We actually succeed at things. Harsh
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Aug 6, 2021 11:56
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Cleretic posted:
Hey that's not fair! Adbert's issues stem from the fact that he succeded too much.
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Aug 6, 2021 13:51
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