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Terrible Opinions posted:What did the Galactic Civ people do? In addition to all the things people pointed out about Brad Wardell, I have my own personal beef with the dude. When he came out swinging in favor of Gamergate, I told him I wouldn't be buying any of his games anymore. Which prompted this free-market loving libertarian to tell me that boycotting him was the financial equivalent of assault, and decided to bring his Twitter followers down on me. I had about three days of people howling at me to the point where Twitter became unusable. So yeah, gently caress Brad Wardell and all his sociopathic bullshit. gradenko_2000 posted:It's also rather disappointing that you've got people like Monte Cook and China Mieville dropping back-of-the-book endorsement quotes for his work. drat. Even China Mieville?
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Jul 27, 2016 10:39
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Dude probably isn't up to date on online politics.
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Jul 27, 2016 10:41
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Probably worth noting that guys like John Wick and Kenneth Hite haven't seen any sort of problem with interviewing or working with Zak. gently caress 'em.
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Jul 27, 2016 10:44
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Serf posted:drat. Even China Mieville? Okay, I dug a bit deeper, and I am sorely mistaken: China Mieville had good things to say about one Patrick Stuart, who was Zak S's collaborator on Maze of the Blue Medusa. It was Cook that complimented Zak S directly.
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Jul 27, 2016 10:45
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I can't hold complimenting the work of someone bad against them too harshly - it's very easy to miss that a serial harasser is a serial harasser precisely because skilled serial harassers know how to hide and fake so they never appear guilty. If you're not digging yourself deeply into the issue, well, some people accused Zak of being a transphobic harasser but there was no clear link and he keeps gaming with this trans friend of his who said that it's ridiculous to say that Zak is transphobic, so, eh, you can probably compliment Zak's game on its merits as a game, right? I'd much rather go harshly out against the people who are actually defending serial harassers than the people who have shook hands, metaphorically speaking, with a serial harasser. I may be writing all this because I just acquired a copy of The Dracula Dossier... >_>
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Jul 27, 2016 11:34
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Did Pelgrane Press do something recently or did Zak work on Dracula Dossier?
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Jul 27, 2016 11:44
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Terrible Opinions posted:Did Pelgrane Press do something recently or did Zak work on Dracula Dossier? Kenneth Hite, who complimented one of Zak's games or something, co-authored The Dracula Dossier.
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Jul 27, 2016 11:46
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gradenko_2000 posted:Okay, I dug a bit deeper, and I am sorely mistaken: China Mieville had good things to say about one Patrick Stuart, who was Zak S's collaborator on Maze of the Blue Medusa. It was Cook that complimented Zak S directly. Mieville did say this, about Red and Pleasant Land, though: Its inadequate to call A Red & Pleasant Land brilliant. With alchemist swagger, Zak takes the base matter of well-worn fantasy standards and our cheerful nerd hobbies, and makes the strangest gold.
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Jul 27, 2016 14:17
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Looking forward to Zak dragging this thread out of the archives in five years as evidence of what a poor, persecuted baby he is. "When will the internet stop being mean to widdle old me?!" Honestly it's a page right out of the Rove book: Accuse people of doing what you do, leaving them with nothing else to say but "no, you are!"
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Jul 27, 2016 14:30
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paradoxGentleman posted:A big problem is that, since a lot of victims get silenced under a barrage of doxxing, Zak isn't really as well known as a shithead of his caliber should. I am pretty out of the industry as a whole, but it took me a long while to pierce together what did he do from the grognards thread. This isn't the only kind of situation where someone is a known douchebag but no one who knows wants to speak. Experienced writers know what companies pay out late or not at all. Ken Whitman spent many years earning his reputation as a scammer, and Jolly Blackburn decided to "give him another chance." What do you know, he got hosed.
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Jul 27, 2016 14:32
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One of the general problems with the RPG... "industry"... is that it's so small that publicly condemning somebody has the effect of going into conflict with a significant chunk of the hobby, and if you're a freelancer, you end up with a vested interest in not rocking the boat. (And with the lifespan of most projects and companies, just about anybody who isn't a pal of Jackson or Siembieda or Cook or Stevens may as well be a freelancer.) Add in geek social fallacies and the tendency for fans to put anybody published on a pedestal, and you have an explanation why your Smiths or Whitmans or Michael-Sjarka's don't get run out on a rail. And we aren't immune. I'd welcome Mikan back, and you can repeat that ten times for emphasis before I speak further. But at the same time my pledge for Last Stand: Reinforcement is gone on butterfly wings and I'd like an explanation. I don't expect to see it or get my money back, but basic communication would go a long way about it. I've never really understood why somebody like Gau becomes a pariah (I, for one, have never cared) while Mikan gets a pass. Maybe it has to do with private poo poo I don't need to know about, but from a backer perspective it's inexcusable. But on a personal level... meh? Meh. That's not to say Mikan's kickstarter foibles are anything compared to the Real Internet Asshats of traditional games, but there's a real pressure in small communities not to bring issues up and to not rock the boat. I'm kind of worried to even bring this up, but that worry is what's convincing me to go ahead and hit post.
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Jul 27, 2016 14:34
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Halloween Jack posted:Ken Whitman spent many years earning his reputation as a scammer, and Jolly Blackburn decided to "give him another chance." What do you know, he got hosed. Changing the subject a bit, what did happen to Ken Whitman? RPPR did a segment on him a while back that gave me the impression he was ... on the lam, but I think my image of him making like Harrison Ford in The Fugitive is a bit overblown. Or is it?
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Jul 27, 2016 14:37
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I mean Mikan was legit run off of the Internet by Zak S and associated scum. As far as excuses go, that's a pretty good one.
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Jul 27, 2016 14:43
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LatwPIAT posted:Kenneth Hite, who complimented one of Zak's games or something, co-authored The Dracula Dossier. Ken Hite to my knowledge has not worked with Zak and his endorsement of Zak has been anything but professional courtesy. It was the equivalent to a book jacket line. On Ken and Robin they seemed to be nonplussed by A Red Pleasant Land. They generally think OSR isn't that great because it's 2016 and they want story games. Hite did author a Lamentations book but it pretty much came down to Raggi pays well and on time and Ken Hite is a full time game writer with no other source of personal income. Qelong was also an early book and written before Raggi leaned in on his persona.
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Jul 27, 2016 14:58
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Ok, reading the thread I think I have a pretty good idea of Zak's misdeeds as a harasser and demagogue, but I don't have a good feel for what his works are like. Someone want to give an executive overview (or link an article that does)?
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Jul 27, 2016 15:51
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Kai Tave posted:I mean to be fair Exploding Kittens made like eight million dollars, and there are plenty of other board games out there which are as vapid and bad as the shoddiest RPGs. TIME Stories for example is considered by many to be a hot new board game but it's actually really bad, it's like a poorly-written Choose Your Own Adventure you pay $60 to play once, actions often have pointless consequences, the actual gameplay is nothing, it's a Bad Game. There's just as much room in designer board gaming for glossy games with plenty of pretty art and hype behind them that turn out to be garbage under the hood as there is in the RPG hobby. time stories is actually really goddamn good you philistine
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Jul 27, 2016 15:59
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Alien Rope Burn posted:One of the general problems with the RPG... "industry"... is that it's so small that publicly condemning somebody has the effect of going into conflict with a significant chunk of the hobby, and if you're a freelancer, you end up with a vested interest in not rocking the boat. (And with the lifespan of most projects and companies, just about anybody who isn't a pal of Jackson or Siembieda or Cook or Stevens may as well be a freelancer.) Add in geek social fallacies and the tendency for fans to put anybody published on a pedestal, and you have an explanation why your Smiths or Whitmans or Michael-Sjarka's don't get run out on a rail. The whole "small industry" doesn't really ring true for me given how this repeats even in much much larger social circles. Exhibit A being the vast majority of senior British politicians either being pedophiles or complicit in pedophilia related crimes. It is the nature of human groups to close ranks to defend their own regardless of circumstance. Hence the story gamer/crunchy gamer divide. If you see one of them as the other any crimes against them don't really count.
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Jul 27, 2016 16:01
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Currently watching the entire RPG industry go ''Lalalalala can't hear anything but also can we just get along, I'm just here for the games,'' so yeah. gently caress your games.
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Jul 27, 2016 16:03
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The fact that he closed comments on his G+ thread when they ended up being filled with women speaking up about how scared they are of S without ever actually responding to their fears kinda indicates what a loving coward this guy is.Alien Rope Burn posted:And we aren't immune. I'd welcome Mikan back, and you can repeat that ten times for emphasis before I speak further. But at the same time my pledge for Last Stand: Reinforcement is gone on butterfly wings and I'd like an explanation. I don't expect to see it or get my money back, but basic communication would go a long way about it. I've never really understood why somebody like Gau becomes a pariah (I, for one, have never cared) while Mikan gets a pass. Maybe it has to do with private poo poo I don't need to know about, but from a backer perspective it's inexcusable. But on a personal level... meh? Meh. Mikan was literally harassed and attacked to the point where she self-banned and left the internet in it's entirety. She cut off all social media, everything. Because S didn't like her. So there's your explanation.
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Jul 27, 2016 16:27
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Haystack posted:Ok, reading the thread I think I have a pretty good idea of Zak's misdeeds as a harasser and demagogue, but I don't have a good feel for what his works are like. Someone want to give an executive overview (or link an article that does)? After reading about the kind of person he is, I can't imagine why you would want to know anything about his work.
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Jul 27, 2016 16:31
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As a result of this recent stuff with Magpie Games, I requested a refund of my Masks pledge last night. Checking today, it's come through. While Mark might be wrongheaded, he assuming that's who handles the "info" email address was very responsive and seemed otherwise professional from my brief interaction with him. So if other people are upset enough about this to consider a refund, I'd encourage them to get in contact with the company, since the process was completely painless. Unfortunately, after looking at the rest of their catalog, it seems like Masks might be the only Magpie-published kickstarter where a refund's still possible.
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Jul 27, 2016 16:47
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Alien Rope Burn posted:And we aren't immune. I'd welcome Mikan back, and you can repeat that ten times for emphasis before I speak further. But at the same time my pledge for Last Stand: Reinforcement is gone on butterfly wings and I'd like an explanation. I don't expect to see it or get my money back, but basic communication would go a long way about it. I've never really understood why somebody like Gau becomes a pariah (I, for one, have never cared) while Mikan gets a pass. Maybe it has to do with private poo poo I don't need to know about, but from a backer perspective it's inexcusable. But on a personal level... meh? Meh. Gau wasn't getting harassing phone calls to his place of employment or to his family, so that's where the pass comes from. Mikan also got non Zak harassment for taking over that Gau Kickstarter because this hobby is poison.
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Jul 27, 2016 16:54
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ProfessorCirno posted:The fact that he closed comments on his G+ thread when they ended up being filled with women speaking up about how scared they are of S without ever actually responding to their fears kinda indicates what a loving coward this guy is. It's very much the classic example of someone seeing two groups fight, go "can't we all just get along?" and that, when presented evidence and voices of the victims proclaiming that no, they can't get along because someone is being a humongous shitlord, promptly sticks his head in the sand and stops listening.
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Jul 27, 2016 17:11
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I just wanted to apologize again for how I acted yesterday. Especially to homullus.
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Jul 27, 2016 17:20
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I think the fundamental problem is dealing with Zak is that the only real way to remove him from the hobby would be an organized harassment campaign. Get a bunch of people together who can torpedo any attempt by him to be involved in community events, get a job anywhere in the industry, and convince digital/retail outlets to not carry his product. Given that he's seemingly immune to shame and doesn't really care about being told to kill himself, you're going to need an actual organized group of blackballers. This naturally leaves a sour taste in some people's mouth. They'd just prefer to live in a world where there's a solution that doesn't involve purposely ruining someone's career.
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Jul 27, 2016 17:22
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Exposure isn't harassment, though. He's free to be a toxic poo poo, but there's no reason to be complicit in shielding him from the consequences of his detestable behaviour.
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Jul 27, 2016 17:28
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Terrible Opinions posted:I think the fundamental problem is dealing with Zak is that the only real way to remove him from the hobby would be an organized harassment campaign. Get a bunch of people together who can torpedo any attempt by him to be involved in community events, get a job anywhere in the industry, and convince digital/retail outlets to not carry his product. Given that he's seemingly immune to shame and doesn't really care about being told to kill himself, you're going to need an actual organized group of blackballers. And yet we live in a world where he did just that and got away with it.
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Jul 27, 2016 17:28
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moths posted:Exposure isn't harassment, though. He's free to be a toxic poo poo, but there's no reason to be complicit in shielding him from the consequences of his detestable behaviour. Serf posted:And yet we live in a world where he did just that and got away with it.
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Jul 27, 2016 17:31
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Terrible Opinions posted:Yes but exposure alone isn't going to "get rid" of him. It's just going to make certain segments of the population getting mad at him. You need to follow him everywhere and block every attempt he makes to do anything in the industry by drowning it out with information about his past. You'd have to figure out when he's going to do an interview/attend an event/launch a product and crash the place preemptively. I don't think anyone believes that driving Zak S out of tabletop games is a viable option. I stick with shunning him and anyone who chooses to associate with him. Consistent reminders of why people shouldn't do business with him help with getting people onboard.
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Jul 27, 2016 17:37
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Serf posted:I mean Mikan was legit run off of the Internet by Zak S and associated scum. As far as excuses go, that's a pretty good one. It's really loving awful, of that I have no doubt, and she made the choices she felt were best for herself. However, Mikan repeatedly said the kickstarter would be continuing on and has posted on it since, if not for quite some time at this point. If that's not going to be completed, she needs to address that. I have every confidence she can do the right thing to the best her situation allows. Hopefully she'll speak for herself at some point. Mr. Maltose posted:Mikan also got non Zak harassment for taking over that Gau Kickstarter because this hobby is poison. Ugggghughghgh
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Jul 27, 2016 17:44
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Serf posted:After reading about the kind of person he is, I can't imagine why you would want to know anything about his work. A combination of morbid curiosity and know-thy-enemy, mostly. I'm mostly curious what his particular brand of awful is, and how it presents itself in his works.
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Jul 27, 2016 17:44
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Slimnoid posted:It's very much the classic example of someone seeing two groups fight, go "can't we all just get along?" and that, when presented evidence and voices of the victims proclaiming that no, they can't get along because someone is being a humongous shitlord, promptly sticks his head in the sand and stops listening. I don't know. If I was the public-facing side of a company, I'd see this and go "well, gently caress, I really screwed up" and shut it all down in preparation for a "I'm sorry, I didn't realize how bad Zak S was" post. I'd say the same thing about making a rambling, good-hearted but ultimately naive, knee-jerk blog post where you mention the toxicity-bomb that is Zak S on your company website, which I'd have the good sense of never posting, so who knows what will happen next?
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Jul 27, 2016 17:47
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Alien Rope Burn posted:It's really loving awful, of that I have no doubt, and she made the choices she felt were best for herself. However, Mikan repeatedly said the kickstarter would be continuing on and has posted on it since, if not for quite some time at this point. If that's not going to be completed, she needs to address that. Seems pretty easy to ask for this kind of thing when you aren't the one who was getting death threats. It's a matter of personal safety. Elfgames aren't worth risking your rear end over.
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Jul 27, 2016 17:50
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thelazyblank posted:I don't know. If I was the public-facing side of a company, I'd see this and go "well, gently caress, I really screwed up" and shut it all down in preparation for a "I'm sorry, I didn't realize how bad Zak S was" post. I'd say the same thing about making a rambling, good-hearted but ultimately naive, knee-jerk blog post where you mention the toxicity-bomb that is Zak S on your company website, which I'd have the good sense of never posting, so who knows what will happen next? Interestingly, he hasn't seemed to have replied to the dozens of people who had very serious, legit issues about his article.
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Jul 27, 2016 17:53
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Literally The Worst posted:time stories is actually really goddamn good you philistine Wow, welcome to last month apparently. Also no, TIME Stories is hot garbage and nobody should waste their money on an overblown Choose Your Own Adventure in board game form. If you want an actually good board game that deals with choices and consequences and that has actual replay value buy Pandemic Legacy.
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Jul 27, 2016 18:31
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Serf posted:Elfgames aren't worth risking your rear end over. 
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Jul 27, 2016 18:38
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Kai Tave posted:Wow, welcome to last month apparently. Also no, TIME Stories is hot garbage and nobody should waste their money on an overblown Choose Your Own Adventure in board game form. If you want an actually good board game that deals with choices and consequences and that has actual replay value buy Pandemic Legacy. what is your opinion on the storygame menace, friend
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Jul 27, 2016 18:38
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Literally The Worst posted:what is your opinion on the storygame menace, friend I'm not really sure what hot take you're driving at here but I'm sure it sounded a lot cleverer in your head.
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Jul 27, 2016 18:43
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Kai Tave posted:I'm not really sure what hot take you're driving at here but I'm sure it sounded a lot cleverer in your head. i mean its a mechanically light narrative driven game and your response is "ugh its a mechanically light narrative driven game" so i'm wondering what your opinion is on other games like that because personally i like games where most of the gameplay is discussing and interacting with the other players, instead of constantly checking the rules to see what i can do next, but i can see why goons might not want to socialize
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Jul 27, 2016 18:45
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Literally The Worst posted:i mean its a mechanically light narrative driven game and your response is "ugh its a mechanically light narrative driven game" so i'm wondering what your opinion is on other games like that You should check out a game called Tragedy Looper, no joke. edit; because this is Something Awful I know your first reaction on seeing the box art will be "ew anime no" but no, seriously, if you want a game centered around discussion and interaction and looping back through time trying to piece a mystery together, you want to check out Tragedy Looper. Also I wouldn't exactly say that Pandemic Legacy is like super crunchy as far as board games go either, but that may just be me.
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Jul 27, 2016 18:48
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