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Games > CoQ Talk (the roguelikes thread (so glad to hear I can finally get some CoQ into my steam library soon, I've been jonesing so loving hard)
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Apr 4, 2015 02:31
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Mr. Wednesday posted:There was a study I read, though annoyingly I can't find it at the moment, where players were asked to rate the AI in a FPS game. One AI was rated much higher than the other - the difference between them was that the agent of the highly-rated AI had significantly more HP than the other one. There was no difference in the actual behavior, but the perceived difference in intelligence was quite large. This is a great example of the conflicting goals that often come up between game designers and game players. Game players think they want to play against 'intelligent' opponents, but in reality they often don't, check out Smart Kobolds for a case study in this, as others have pointed out. What they really want is the illusion of intelligent AI. I'd go on about the implications for game developers but I'm a bit too drunk to pull that off at the moment I'd totally play a horrible ball-crushing expanded version of Smart Kobolds.
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Apr 4, 2015 04:00
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Mr. Wednesday posted:There was a study I read, though annoyingly I can't find it at the moment, where players were asked to rate the AI in a FPS game. One AI was rated much higher than the other - the difference between them was that the agent of the highly-rated AI had significantly more HP than the other one. There was no difference in the actual behavior, but the perceived difference in intelligence was quite large. This is a great example of the conflicting goals that often come up between game designers and game players. Game players think they want to play against 'intelligent' opponents, but in reality they often don't, check out Smart Kobolds for a case study in this, as others have pointed out. What they really want is the illusion of intelligent AI. I'd go on about the implications for game developers but I'm a bit too drunk to pull that off at the moment Another great example of this, although it's not AI specifically, is Hydra Slayer. It's a good example of how you ACTUALLY want heuristic-driven combat where you feel "intelligent" by going down the heuristic tree, not actual, pure, brainmelting tactical combat. Which is not to say that Hydra Slayer is bad - it's super interesting and fun in small doses. But it sure makes the point that you don't want a game that's smarter than you! (To the point when there's literally an item to tell you "how do I optimally kill each enemy in sight" as a powerup.)
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Apr 4, 2015 05:13
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What might be interesting is not training an AI behind the monsters (which is often more subjectively fun if it's dumb enough to 'beat'), but training the AI that creates and manages the levels. Super smart AI for the "dungeon master" even if the monsters are dumb sounds like a far more fascinating (and unexplored) tack.
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Apr 4, 2015 05:20
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i don't necessarily need tiles to play a roguelike but the ones for caves of qud look amazing and make me even more excited to get it. also means it'll be easier to get others into it, as long as it has more of a concrete 'end' set up at some point for them to aim for.
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Apr 4, 2015 05:41
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Agent Kool-Aid posted:i don't necessarily need tiles to play a roguelike but the ones for caves of qud look amazing and make me even more excited to get it. also means it'll be easier to get others into it, as long as it has more of a concrete 'end' set up at some point for them to aim for. Hand of like has the full outline for the main story arc laid out, so we'll start coloring it in once basic tiled early access is out.
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Apr 4, 2015 05:47
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Unormal posted:What might be interesting is not training an AI behind the monsters (which is often more subjectively fun if it's dumb enough to 'beat'), but training the AI that creates and manages the levels. Super smart AI for the "dungeon master" even if the monsters are dumb sounds like a far more fascinating (and unexplored) tack. Left 4 Dead had something kind of like that in the Director; the idea was that it would pay attention to how the players played the game and how well they did then adjust accordingly. I do like that idea though and am kind of thinking about working on that after I get this thing done.
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Apr 4, 2015 09:17
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I'm two pages late for this, but I really think the "distinct pattern for each enemy type's movement" thing that Necrodancer has is really cool. Both in an AI sense and a trash mob sense. You get emergent behavior and meta like the Red Dragon Dance, which trivializes previously unbeatable enemies. And for all my fellow Necrodancer players, as a great example, just think about how hard a time you used to have with skeletons (especially black skeletons) and bats.
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Apr 4, 2015 15:41
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Skwee posted:I just saw this quoted by someone (I think it was Unormal) on twitter being re tweeted by someone I follow (A let's player I've watched for ages) like an hour ago then I came in here and saw it here too. Weirded me out to see that connection happen out of nowhere, although he does do a lot of roguelike gameplay stuff. Hey cool! Thanks Unormal. First time I was retweeted. Looking forwards to the release of the CoQ. I mean
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Apr 4, 2015 16:01
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I think it's probably fair to say we're all craving the CoQ
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Apr 4, 2015 20:15
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I gotta have my CoQ.
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Apr 4, 2015 20:36
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Every time somebody has written CoQ in this thread I've read it as Coke but this will never be the case again.
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Apr 4, 2015 21:20
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It's pronounced Cock.
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Apr 4, 2015 21:25
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Killer-of-Lawyers posted:It's pronounced Cock. 
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Apr 4, 2015 23:22
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I hear it as coq, which is to say, "cock" with a French accent and a delicious connotation.
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Apr 5, 2015 00:02
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Angry Diplomat posted:I hear it as coq, which is to say, "cock" with a French accent and a delicious connotation. It occurs to me that I don't think I've ever seen any chickens in CoQ, which means that you can't have coq au vin in CoQ, and that makes me sad 
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Apr 5, 2015 02:31
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:It occurs to me that I don't think I've ever seen any chickens in CoQ, which means that you can't have coq au vin in CoQ, and that makes me sad I don't think there are any recognizable animals in coq, except crocs i guess. It occurs to me that i actually haven't looked at a croc's description though so it might be some terrifying mutant reptile with an innocuous name.
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Apr 5, 2015 02:42
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andrew smash posted:I don't think there are any recognizable animals in coq, except crocs i guess. It occurs to me that i actually haven't looked at a croc's description though so it might be some terrifying mutant reptile with an innocuous name. So far as I recall, the bears are normal bears. I mean, except for the talking smart bears and the Sky-Bear, but those are different bears.
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Apr 5, 2015 02:48
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:So far as I recall, the bears are normal bears. I mean, except for the talking smart bears and the Sky-Bear, but those are beary different. 
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Apr 5, 2015 03:18
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I appreciate your concern, citizen, but this work is meant for qualified bear experts! (thankfully I still have this av/title from making a bear joke in the Kickstarter thread like a year ago)
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Apr 5, 2015 03:57
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I have waited years for some new CoQ. The old version is just so short and quick to play through.
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Apr 5, 2015 10:03
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Michael Jackson posted:I have waited years for some new CoQ. 
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Apr 5, 2015 23:23
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Don't listen to him. Your CoQ is as long and hard as it's ever been.
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Apr 6, 2015 02:52
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Has anyone tried KeeperRL? It looks like an interesting mix of your standard-issue roguelike and Dungeon Keeper.
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Apr 6, 2015 03:02
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I still like adom.
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Apr 6, 2015 03:07
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Lawman 0 posted:I still like adom. *nods sagely*
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Apr 6, 2015 03:13
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Lawman 0 posted:I still like adom. me too, but it is more of a nostalgia thing. I can still vividly remember grinding for seven league boots in the big room and fighting off hordes of summoned spiders ever increasingly deadly.
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Apr 6, 2015 08:35
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IVAN is my jam
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Apr 6, 2015 12:17
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Lawman 0 posted:I still like adom. I don't think I've ever played a game that was quite as insane in all the best ways as ADOM. I've been playing it since like 1998 or 1999 or so and the drat thing still manages to surprise me. There are class/race combinations I've still never tried and nostalgia or not it's unique and still pretty fun. The grinding is a bit annoying at times and some parts were very poorly designed but wow does it get roguelikes right.
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Apr 6, 2015 12:29
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I agree with all of the criticisms about ToME in this thread but god drat do I love that game. For all of its flaws, it scratches the character design / item finding itch so well. And the new Paradox Mages are awesome. These days I only play crawl during the tournament. After finishing a tome dox mage I think it'll be just in time for me to learn how to play CoQ.
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Apr 6, 2015 13:29
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Happylisk posted:After finishing a tome dox mage I think it'll be just in time for me to learn how to play CoQ. *Insert Cock Pun/Masturbation Joke here.*
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Apr 6, 2015 14:06
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Babe Magnet posted:IVAN is my jam Happylisk posted:I agree with all of the criticisms about ToME in this thread but god drat do I love that game. Agreed on both counts. IVAN is fantastic as a goofy voluntary foray into Unfair Roguelikes, and its insane material/limb mechanics and maliciously demented internal logic are endlessly funny. ToME has its flaws - particularly its pacing and propensity for level after level crammed with enemies that are mostly harmless chaff - but on the whole it's a really well-designed, polished, highly enjoyable roguelike. I kinda got back into Crawl after the latest tourney but I don't play it that much anymore. It's a really good, really tightly-designed game, though.
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Apr 6, 2015 14:53
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I wish more roguelikes had material and damage systems akin to IVAN and Dwarf Fortress.
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Apr 6, 2015 14:56
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Jack Trades posted:I wish more roguelikes had material and damage systems akin to IVAN and Dwarf Fortress. I would sacrifice goats to forgotten gods for a roguelike that combined DoomRL's gunplay with Ivan's damage and material systems. Give me granite miniguns and arms made of stainless steel. Let me accidentally turn my leg into margarine and then despair when it melts as soon as I fire my bronze rocket launcher at something a little too close.
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Apr 6, 2015 15:09
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My favorite thing about IVAN is the Artifact weapon Turox. It's a mace that sometimes causes powerful explosions when you hit stuff with it. Explosions that you, the wielder, are not immune to.
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Apr 7, 2015 13:07
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Babe Magnet posted:My favorite thing about IVAN is the Artifact weapon Turox. It's a mace that sometimes causes powerful explosions when you hit stuff with it. Explosions that you, the wielder, are not immune to. Or the lightning hammer, which fires ricocheting bolts of electricity. You are not immune to these, which is unfortunate, as your own lightning ricochets will almost always hit you in the groin. This means that using the lightning hammer will rapidly kill you via crotch electrocution.
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Apr 7, 2015 14:10
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Because lightning, after all, is naturally attracted to the most erect point of a structure!  Bonuses in IVAN are typically never in your favour. It's the best unfair rogue-like I've played.
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Apr 7, 2015 14:23
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Are there any good/funny LPs of IVAN?
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Apr 7, 2015 15:16
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Sage Grimm posted:Because lightning, after all, is naturally attracted to the most erect point of a structure! Enemy spawns are based entirely off your max health. More health = stronger more That pretty much tells you everything you need to know about the difficulty curve of the game.
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Apr 7, 2015 17:22
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| # ? Jun 13, 2024 07:12 |
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Nevermind
Jesto fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Jun 20, 2021 |
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Apr 7, 2015 18:19
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