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I hope the conservatives run someone better than Hudak next time because I'm voting for them either way.
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Jan 20, 2016 17:04
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They have Brown, he is trying REALLY HARD to be personable and electable.
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Jan 20, 2016 17:05
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Here's my main problem. I cannot hold my nose and vote OLP next election. I cannot do it (Yes, I know shock) but by the same token there is no way in gently caress I'll ever vote OPC, and let's be honest, ONDP hasn't made me want to vote for them either. Maybe I can move to another province?
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Jan 20, 2016 17:06
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The Gunslinger posted:Ontario governments promise to cut insurance rates was just a "stretch goal". I've seen some pretty patronizing PR bullshit from politicians but this is pretty hilarious. As if they're running a loving Kickstarter campaign and not the provincial government. The conservatives had a chance with Christine Eliott but she assumed she was the heir apparent and got flanked by Brown during the leadership run. So we're left with this crap.
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Jan 20, 2016 17:07
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bunnyofdoom posted:Here's my main problem. I cannot hold my nose and vote OLP next election. I cannot do it (Yes, I know shock) but by the same token there is no way in gently caress I'll ever vote OPC, and let's be honest, ONDP hasn't made me want to vote for them either. Maybe I can move to another province? That's all of us.
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Jan 20, 2016 17:10
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Ikantski posted:Hudak wanted to make the business environment slightly better for all businesses You know what, any time a politician says 'Ill make it easier to do business' I pretty much automatically dismiss them. gently caress business. Business has been far too easy to conduct for far too long. It's why so much poo poo got concentrated at the top and so much of the benefits of increased per capita productivity was allowed to remain in the hands of the few. It's so loving easy to do business now that other businesses can't compete in this market because the free market has reached the end game of taking so much of the pie that unless you were winning the game fourty years ago every time you lap the big Monopoly board you're getting less. Now even loving Ikea is having to revamp their business because they've admitted that people just aren't buying stuff at the rate we used to.
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Jan 20, 2016 17:13
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Dreylad posted:The conservatives had a chance with Christine Eliott but she assumed she was the heir apparent and got flanked by Brown during the leadership run. So we're left with this crap. Ug, I voted so hard for her. That leadership race was so crazy though, Brown didn't campaign or swing voters, there just weren't many OPC members left to vote. The memberships were down to about 10k, he went out and sold 30k. He literally door to door salesman-ed his way to the leadership, it's borderline admirable. The guy is smart, works hard and hopefully he can repress his socon aspects to work on more important issues. EvilJoven posted:You know what, any time a politician says 'Ill make it easier to do business' I pretty much automatically dismiss them. That's every politician though. Wynne and Hudak were both going to do it just with different strategies. Hudak stabilizes electricity prices which helps every company, Wynne gives millions to handpicked businesses to help them be competitive and creates a carbon cap and trade but says "To curb an exodus of Ontario industries to places like Mexico, the plan suggests some 'emissions-intensive' businesses be given pollution credits free of charge." Postess with the Mostest fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Jan 20, 2016 |
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Jan 20, 2016 17:14
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Ikantski posted:Ug, I voted so hard for her. That leadership race was so crazy though, Brown didn't campaign or swing voters, there just weren't many OPC members left to vote. The memberships were down to about 10k, he went out and sold 30k. He literally door to door salesman-ed his way to the leadership, it's borderline admirable. The guy is smart, works hard and hopefully he can repress his socon aspects to work on more important issues. Yeah I mean it came down to the simple matter of him wanting it more. Can't argue with that, but Eliott had a much broader appeal, and Brown is going to have to work very hard to emulate that.
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Jan 20, 2016 17:18
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bunnyofdoom posted:Here's my main problem. I cannot hold my nose and vote OLP next election. I cannot do it (Yes, I know shock) but by the same token there is no way in gently caress I'll ever vote OPC, and let's be honest, ONDP hasn't made me want to vote for them either. Maybe I can move to another province? run as an independent
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Jan 20, 2016 17:19
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jm20 posted:OPPA != OPP. Frankly, Ontario doesn't need to rein in public spending. Ontario already has some of the lowest per capita program spending of any Canadian province:  As a percentage of GDP rather than by absolute numbers, Ontario has some of the lowest spending of all the provinces:  Yes, OLP corruption is a bad thing and costs us money. But "reining in costs on a much larger scale" is not actually necessary when our provincial governments, Liberal and Conservative, have been cutting the size of the state for the last two decades. The biggest actual problem Ontario has when it comes to a budget shortfall is a lack of revenue:  Ontario doesn't have a (former) huge natural resource boom to bring in provincial funds like Alberta, Saskatchewan, or Newfoundland, doesn't have an aging economy to bring in federal funds like the Maritimes, and doesn't have (anymore) a thriving industrial base to bring in income and corporate taxation. Ontario's fiscal problem is not a problem of overspending, that is actually 100% a narrative made up by our right wing political parties and media. Ontario's problem is a consistent shortfall in revenue: the province simply does not bring in enough money to pay for the things that Ontarians want their government to do, which means we end up deficit spending instead. Unfortunately, our years of deficit spending don't seem to actually be improving the problem--they're not making sound investments in things that will grow the long-term economic prosperity of the province and therefore generate more revenue in the future. Instead they're being made in corrupt projects, poorly targeted corporate welfare, and handouts to friends of our politicians, and this is true under both the Conservative and Liberal governments of the last 21 years. The solution is not to cut the size of the state as Hudak wanted and the OPCP still wants. Per capita, we already have one of the smallest provincial governments, we're just fooled into thinking that's not the case by the fact that Ontario is the largest province and spends the most money, so the absolute numbers are much larger than the figures for other provinces in terms of spending, debt, number of public employees, etc. The solution is to grow Ontario's revenue base (in a way that encourages economic growth, not necessarily by raising taxes in the middle of an economic downturn) so that future governments don't face these same problems, and frankly speaking the only realistic means we have at the moment to grow our revenue base is deficit spending, given the state of our economy and record low interest rates. Our biggest problem at the moment is that our government is absolute poo poo at investing deficits in good ways that don't lead to $9B Samsung deals and new bridges that don't even work. vyelkin fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Jan 20, 2016 |
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Jan 20, 2016 17:20
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bunnyofdoom posted:Here's my main problem. I cannot hold my nose and vote OLP next election. I cannot do it (Yes, I know shock) but by the same token there is no way in gently caress I'll ever vote OPC, and let's be honest, ONDP hasn't made me want to vote for them either. Maybe I can move to another province? Move out of this stupid loving country you shitheads. I loving hate Canadians. best CI impression I could manage
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Jan 20, 2016 17:20
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bunnyofdoom posted:Here's my main problem. I cannot hold my nose and vote OLP next election. I cannot do it (Yes, I know shock) but by the same token there is no way in gently caress I'll ever vote OPC, and let's be honest, ONDP hasn't made me want to vote for them either. Maybe I can move to another province? There's a club for people in Ontario with this problem; we meet everyday at the bar. CBC Ottawa posted:NCC rescinds land use for victims of communism monument 
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Jan 20, 2016 17:25
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Great! Now kill that awful Mother Canada statue and we're back to status quo on monuments, more or less.
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Jan 20, 2016 17:26
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bunnyofdoom posted:Here's my main problem. I cannot hold my nose and vote OLP next election. I cannot do it (Yes, I know shock) but by the same token there is no way in gently caress I'll ever vote OPC, and let's be honest, ONDP hasn't made me want to vote for them either. Maybe I can move to another province? I don't know, I've voted both Liberal and Conservative in the past. It really depends on the performance of my local MPPs, the costing plans presented and so on. I try not to subscribe to the sort of polarizing antics we see in the US or get caught up in the silly sports team type personal investment people seem to bring to politics. I think for the PCs the last election was a big wake up call. There is a big shift to marginalize the outdated bible thumpers who keep hammering on the gong about abortion/gay rights and to start working with unions instead of defining that party as inherently anti-union. I think we'll see a lot more centrist a party next go around. I have no idea how I will vote but I won't rule anyone out but I would like to see the NDP get rid of sleazy Mulcair. The current government is not something I can support though just based on its performance and messaging.
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Jan 20, 2016 17:27
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Don't worry the olp messaging will change in advance of the next election.
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Jan 20, 2016 17:31
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The Gunslinger posted:I don't know, I've voted both Liberal and Conservative in the past. It really depends on the performance of my local MPPs, the costing plans presented and so on. I try not to subscribe to the sort of polarizing antics we see in the US or get caught up in the silly sports team type personal investment people seem to bring to politics. See, you started talking provincial then switched to federal by talking about Mulcair? Did you mean Horwath? Arabian Jesus posted:There's a club for people in Ontario with this problem; we meet everyday at the bar. Dreylad posted:Move out of this stupid loving country you shitheads. I loving hate Canadians. Keep at it Besides, I love the federal Government.
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Jan 20, 2016 17:36
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bunnyofdoom posted:Keep at it Besides, I love the federal Government. Just move across the river. Then you can vote in Quebec but still keep your federal government job.
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Jan 20, 2016 17:38
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bunnyofdoom posted:See, you started talking provincial then switched to federal by talking about Mulcair? Did you mean Horwath? No I was just tossing out random thoughts, sorry if it was a bit muddled.
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Jan 20, 2016 17:39
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vyelkin posted:Just move across the river. Then you can vote in Quebec but still keep your federal government job. Although Quebec corruption and lack of electoral choice makes Ontario look like the land of transparency and honesty. On the other hand you can just swing by the Dep for booze.
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Jan 20, 2016 17:40
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Dreylad posted:Although Quebec corruption and lack of electoral choice makes Ontario look like the land of transparency and honesty. Yeah but it solves the voting dilemma because then you can just vote for Quebec Solidaire every time.
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Jan 20, 2016 17:44
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Anyone that thinks Brown will be any different than Hudak is living in a delusional world. The only thing he is better at is hiding his boner for business and the reacharound before the loving.
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Jan 20, 2016 17:46
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Come to BC, we have the most inspiring provincial parties. Then move back to Ontario and you'll probably get the stomach to vote for someone there.
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Jan 20, 2016 17:48
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vyelkin posted:Just move across the river. Then you can vote in Quebec but still keep your federal government job. I don't work for the government per say. But, yeah, I'd rather Ontario than Quebec.
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Jan 20, 2016 17:50
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bunnyofdoom posted:Here's my main problem. I cannot hold my nose and vote OLP next election. I cannot do it (Yes, I know shock) but by the same token there is no way in gently caress I'll ever vote OPC, and let's be honest, ONDP hasn't made me want to vote for them either. Maybe I can move to another province? Come to BC oh wait.. no.. that's not going to solve your problem.
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Jan 20, 2016 18:04
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vyelkin posted:Our biggest problem at the moment is that our government is absolute poo poo at investing deficits in good ways that don't lead to $9B Samsung deals and new bridges that don't even work. That's ultimately my problem with them as well. You could shift every single nurse and doctor dollar into a LHIN management job and say that you're spending the same on healthcare program spending but it's not the same. I don't think it's fair to compare Ontario program spending to the smaller provinces. We're supposed to be more efficient, there's 50% more people in the GTA than there are in all of the 4th most populated province, when we plow the 401 there, we're plowing it for 450,000 people at once. Anyway, here's the updated chart for where 85% of Canadians live. Whether we have a spending problem or revenue problem, we have a debt problem.  Edit: Suck it greedy hospitals, we have more important stuff to spend money on http://www.torontosun.com/2016/01/19/wynne-defends-140gs-for-pan-am-salon posted:Premier Kathleen Wynne says she’s OK that $140,000-plus was spent on haircuts and nail art for Pan Am athletes. Postess with the Mostest fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Jan 20, 2016 |
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Jan 20, 2016 18:07
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Melian Dialogue fucked around with this message at 05:35 on Feb 2, 2016 |
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Jan 20, 2016 18:36
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vyelkin posted:Just move across the river. Then you can vote in Quebec but still keep your federal government job. I recommend this to anyone if you're situation allows for it. Affordable hydro rates and beer in the corner stores; I had a pleasant time living in Gatineau. bunnyofdoom posted:Which bar? I'm down. Depends which way you lean
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Jan 20, 2016 19:03
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Arabian Jesus posted:I recommend this to anyone if you're situation allows for it. Affordable hydro rates and beer in the corner stores; I had a pleasant time living in Gatineau. I love the welcome tax, especially the way it's assessed to servicemembers who are coming back from overseas postings.
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Jan 20, 2016 19:05
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flakeloaf posted:I love the welcome tax, especially the way it's assessed to servicemembers who are coming back from overseas postings. I haven't lived in Quebec so perhaps I don't know all of the familiars but isn't this just a land transfer tax like several others provinces have?
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Jan 20, 2016 19:07
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Melian Dialogue posted:The amount of times Ikantski ducks and dodges and tries to seem like "Hey guys, I'm on your side here" even though he casually drops the standard Conservative tropes is amazing. Even when Vyelkin here calls him out for his crappy premises ("We're overspending!! Balance the budget! Austerity!"), he just replies with "Oh no no, see I agree with you, the problem is definitely these corporate handouts and by corporate handouts I mean big government" A swagger post that is both sane and accurate. Truly the end times are upon us. Personally I love how up front, and yet so subtle, ikantski is about his FYGM self-serving political leanings. The guy does not once shy away from the fact that he gains more from Conservative leadership because he falls under the "Small Business Owner" flag and gets more handouts than the poor people our society is increasingly leaving behind. He never argues that he is short on money, he just wants more of it and theres nothing wrong with that. Even if it means stepping on a few necks. Thats life after all! Oh and its OK for At least I can agree with him on how much the mismanagement of Ontario's hydro is costing the province and hampering any kind of recovery. 
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Jan 20, 2016 19:13
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Melian Dialogue posted:The amount of times Ikantski ducks and dodges and tries to seem like "Hey guys, I'm on your side here" even though he casually drops the standard Conservative tropes is amazing. Even when Vyelkin here calls him out for his crappy premises ("We're overspending!! Balance the budget! Austerity!"), he just replies with "Oh no no, see I agree with you, the problem is definitely these corporate handouts and by corporate handouts I mean big government" Yeah, this 
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Jan 20, 2016 19:22
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Furnaceface posted:At least I can agree with him on how much the mismanagement of Ontario's hydro is costing the province and hampering any kind of recovery. Do you mean in terms of how its affecting capital investment? Yeah I think this gets overlooked a lot when people talk about power and how much it costs consumers. I have a few clients with small plant operations and both are actively looking at shifting everything elsewhere.
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Jan 20, 2016 19:22
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The Gunslinger posted:I haven't lived in Quebec so perhaps I don't know all of the familiars but isn't this just a land transfer tax like several others provinces have? Yeah. The rate is lower than Ontario and BC, too.
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Jan 20, 2016 19:25
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The Gunslinger posted:I haven't lived in Quebec so perhaps I don't know all of the familiars but isn't this just a land transfer tax like several others provinces have? Quebec is the only one that assesses it from the day you leave your home province. So if you're posted out of Edmonton and spend four years living in Paris, and then you're posted directly to Quebec, guess what there'll be four years worth of waiting for you when you get back?
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Jan 20, 2016 19:30
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flakeloaf posted:Quebec is the only one that assesses it from the day you leave your home province. So if you're posted out of Edmonton and spend four years living in Paris, and then you're posted directly to Quebec, guess what there'll be four years worth of waiting for you when you get back? As I understand it, the land transfer tax is assessed once, when the property is purchased. What do you mean here?
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Jan 20, 2016 19:35
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Vyelkin it doesn't matter that we spend less, we aren't creating revenue so either we increase revenue or cut services (ughguhguhg). Being a rust belt province doesn't help our GDP numbers, and we need to drastically overhaul the types of jobs we want Ontarians to have. I hate to say it, but we need to attract some big business (manufacturing) that will have trickle down jobs for the rest of the province. Ontario is in a death spiral, and if we don't right this ship we will be reboarding the Mike Harris Express very soon.
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Jan 20, 2016 19:42
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Pinterest Mom posted:As I understand it, the land transfer tax is assessed once, when the property is purchased. What do you mean here? It's assessed once, but if you leave Edmonton in 2002, go to Tokyo until 2006, then get posted to Valcartier, they'll declare that you've been a resident of Quebec since you left Edmonton and hit you with a very large bill that you can do basically nothing about - but I may be misremembering what allows them to do that, and if the welcome tax is just LTT then it's probably under some other authority. Regardless, it really sucks and a good career manager will try to avoid doing this to a guy if (s)he can.
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Jan 20, 2016 19:50
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It's not going to solve all of Ontario's woes but I think we need to stop treating farmland and farmers as placeholders until developers can move in and build suburbs, especially in South-Western Ontario. Of course for a lot of municipalities, it's too late.
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Jan 20, 2016 19:50
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Didn't Patrick Brown say some horrible loving poo poo about gay people at one point?
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Jan 20, 2016 20:59
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sbaldrick posted:Didn't Patrick Brown say some horrible loving poo poo about gay people at one point? He voted against same sex marriage and to support some bill that would've restricted abortion. He's also since marched in the Pride parade and promised (hopefully not as a stretch goal) that as an elected leader he would not interfere in a woman's right to choose. I'm sure his personal views are a different story but he seems reasonably self-aware. Elliot was probably more electable but Brown isn't awful considering the winners they've tried in the past.
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Jan 20, 2016 21:08
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