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Reiterpallasch posted:don't listen to the parts where i tell you not to go for the platinum trophy cmon, filling out the sphere grid isn't that haaaaard 
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Dec 31, 2016 09:06
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Reiterpallasch posted:your summons are disgustingly broken if you take yuna down a physical fighter's path, like "solo game with ease" broken Alternate take: go for the platinum trophy 
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Dec 31, 2016 11:23
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Fister Roboto posted:You should do like I did when I first got into the series and play them all in order because you thought that they had a sequential plot. How would this make any sense? You go from time travel to space travel on a giant whale to the destruction and fusing of two worlds to the end of the world to climate change and human's impact on their environment whilst dealing with a crazy katana man to a colorful and heavily theocratic culture based on death to robo gods and best waifus and a thinly veiled company politics simulator revolving around the shifting of the paradigms to a gay boyband trying to get their main squeeze to his beard so they can gently caress a porn star who wipes down their car every time you fill the gas tank.
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Dec 31, 2016 12:41
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Gologle posted:How would this make any sense? You go from time travel to space travel on a giant whale to the destruction and fusing of two worlds to the end of the world to climate change and human's impact on their environment whilst dealing with a crazy katana man to a colorful and heavily theocratic culture based on death to robo gods and best waifus and a thinly veiled company politics simulator revolving around the shifting of the paradigms to a gay boyband trying to get their main squeeze to his beard so they can gently caress a porn star who wipes down their car every time you fill the gas tank.
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Dec 31, 2016 13:16
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Raxivace posted:Well, there's Dissidia. I just realized Noctis is gonna be hilariously outclassed when he gets added to Dissidia. It's already a take on Final Fantasy where everyone's a Dragon Ball Z character; his Thing is mobility, but everyone's already got his tricks. Beyond that he's got, what, a multitude of weapons, which is already covered by Firion and (when he comes back) Gilgamesh?
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Dec 31, 2016 13:56
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Cleretic posted:I just realized Noctis is gonna be hilariously outclassed when he gets added to Dissidia. It's already a take on Final Fantasy where everyone's a Dragon Ball Z character; his Thing is mobility, but everyone's already got his tricks. Beyond that he's got, what, a multitude of weapons, which is already covered by Firion and (when he comes back) Gilgamesh? Can those other guys fish though?
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Dec 31, 2016 13:58
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He'll run them over with the Regalia.
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Dec 31, 2016 14:50
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Cleretic posted:I just realized Noctis is gonna be hilariously outclassed when he gets added to Dissidia. It's already a take on Final Fantasy where everyone's a Dragon Ball Z character; his Thing is mobility, but everyone's already got his tricks. Beyond that he's got, what, a multitude of weapons, which is already covered by Firion and (when he comes back) Gilgamesh? He's got his magic ring and elemental blasts. And he's used some weapons that neither Firion or Gilgamesh have used - shields, greatswords, machinery, giant shuriken, etc. Enough to give him plenty of variety.
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Dec 31, 2016 15:41
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Cape Cod Crab Chip posted:At this point, I really just want to know one thing: gigglefeimer, why is your dog in this fight "FFT 1.3 is not hard you just need to pay basic attention to Very Simple Things" and why do you seemingly refuse to accept that it's widely considered punishingly (and, in many circles, tediously) difficult? Why not take the fact that you apparently mastered it with ease as a badge of honor? I don't really agree with all your assumptions, but that's besides the point, now. I think I was just surprised to find out how little most people pay attention to the game they're playing. Like I thought it was basic knowledge of the game that dead characters continue to accrue CT and after a few turns dead they turn into boxes or crystals. I didn't think it was a hidden mechanic that only hardcore players who look up info on the internet know.
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Dec 31, 2016 16:20
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I also don't get how people missed Etro's Gate, I mean it's right in the background and all.
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Dec 31, 2016 17:43
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Expert gamer protip #9: You can in fact field more units than just Ramza in battle. Having this advantage will prove invaluable when playing challenge mods. Nobody knows exactly how this mysterious mechanic works or how to reproduce it, but the top FFT experts are working on it as we speak.
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Dec 31, 2016 18:10
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gigglefeimer posted:Expert gamer protip #9: You can in fact field more units than just Ramza in battle. Having this advantage will prove invaluable when playing challenge mods. Nobody knows exactly how this mysterious mechanic works or how to reproduce it, but the top FFT experts are working on it as we speak. See you're doing that to be smarmy but yes, many first time players of FFT actually had no idea how to deploy units. Also your favorite hack is poo poo and unfun and made by a sperg.
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Dec 31, 2016 18:15
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Onmi posted:your favorite hack is poo poo and unfun and made by a sperg.
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Dec 31, 2016 18:17
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Boy, capturing the Flan Princess and her spectacular tentacular buddy in WoFF is a bit of a chore, huh? I managed it after an hour or so, but that was way more dice rolls than I'm comfortable with for a single fight. Do those two respawn after being caught? They coughed up a lot of EXP.
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Dec 31, 2016 18:17
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Oxxidation posted:Boy, capturing the Flan Princess and her spectacular tentacular buddy in WoFF is a bit of a chore, huh? I managed it after an hour or so, but that was way more dice rolls than I'm comfortable with for a single fight. They do respawn. All those special encounter do. The Flan princess is also a really good monster.
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Dec 31, 2016 18:19
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gigglefeimer posted:I don't really agree with all your assumptions, but that's besides the point, now. I think I was just surprised to find out how little most people pay attention to the game they're playing. Like I thought it was basic knowledge of the game that dead characters continue to accrue CT and after a few turns dead they turn into boxes or crystals. I didn't think it was a hidden mechanic that only hardcore players who look up info on the internet know. People tend to know the what, but FFT does an amazing job of obfuscating the why and how behind obtuse one-line descriptions and one of the most boring, driest tutorials that was also translated so poorly as to be borderline illegible. It's not the lack of information but the supremely horrific presentation of that information that is the biggest challenge to most trying to learn. Like, when I first played it I got to the fourth tutorial entry and went 'nope, I'll learn it in the game' because each entry had me second-guessing what I thought I knew. Thankfully, I also had played Tactics Ogre and the D&D Gold Box games, so it wasn't my first SRPG rodeo and I worked stuff out before the hell march at the end of Chapter 2. I can only imagine how much worse it was for someone who got the game because it was Final Fantasy and had little idea what else was going on.
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Dec 31, 2016 18:24
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Onmi posted:See you're doing that to be smarmy but yes, many first time players of FFT actually had no idea how to deploy units. Also your favorite hack is poo poo and unfun and made by a sperg. I'd rather a game leave you to figure out basic stuff like deploying units than throwing endless unskippable tutorials at you. If you can't be bothered to mess around with the systems you're given and figure that out then you're better off sticking to Mario.
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Dec 31, 2016 18:28
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Shoren posted:I'd rather a game leave you to figure out basic stuff like deploying units than throwing endless unskippable tutorials at you. If you can't be bothered to mess around with the systems you're given and figure that out then you're better off sticking to Mario. Sure, but if you're going to start with an unskippable tutorial, then move into an unskippable tutorial, during either of those, you could devote a textbox to "Here's how you actually deploy your units." But skipping that, here's why 1.3 is actually an incredibly poor hack. Because it breaks design philosophy, I personally subscribe to the philosophy that every video game is someone first, And when you design a game, you are designing it with the idea that you would like people to buy it. This is even with Romhacks, hell, even with Hard-Type Romhacks, they should never be developed under the assumption that everyone who's playing it already knows everything. That doesn't mean you make it for the lowest common denominator, but you definitely shouldn't for example, make a random encounter that's an unbeatable boss because of a meme video someone made in your isolated community. 1.3 breaks flow, and let me explain what I mean by that. 1.3 is not a game where, with proper positioning and tactical application someone who is skilled enough can get through the story chapters without having to devote themselves to grinding in a very specific way. Of course as a hard-type hack, its focus is to create a more challenging experience than the original, but said challenge is poorly paced and completely wonky on curve. The early game is far more difficult than the late game because you just have so few options. Eliminating the concept of it being a 'hard' hack. The example I'll give in other romhacks is a Pokemon hack where the first gym leader has a team of 6 Pokemon all higher than the curve at that point of the game. The type of Romhack where each trainer is such a vicious bruiser that the player is sent scurrying back to the Pokemon Center after each encounter just to be prepared. Absolutely more difficult, but it completely breaks flow. Let's compare this to "actually designed to be hard" Video Game, Dark Souls. In Dark Souls, the game will actively punish you for not paying attention, and it teaches you that you will die a lot. But nothing in the game, with actual careful observation, is so difficult that you absolutely cannot get through it, and if you in fact, hit a wall that you the player cannot pass, due to the sprawling nature of the game, you can simply leave and go explore other parts of the game. 1.3 uses scaling equipment to 'keep the difficulty' but lets explain why that's loving stupid. The players equipment does not in fact, scale, and better equipment is far more important than more levels. If the player, got loving forbid, doesn't know "the exact proper method of levelling." and after encountering a difficult part of the game, attempted to even the odds with a few more levels like a traditional RPG, they would then find themselves buttfucked by the AI now having far better equipment and their level advantage meaning poo poo and all. Now this obviously stops the player from Over-levelling, but the game, in fact, then makes itself basically unwinnable, since tactical placement can only account for so much. This can happen as early as chapter 1. If you have designed a video game in which the player can utterly gently caress themselves through regular gameplay mechanics of actually being able to proceed through the game, then you have hosed up and designed a bad game. FFT 1.3 is certainly a more difficult game that the original, it's just also a worse game. If you have designed a hack of any kind in which the optimal way to play is to use an online guide, you've hosed up. If you've designed a game that requires the player to level in a very specific way and if they don't then they will screw themselves of managing to make it through the game, you've hosed up. If you make stupid, horseshit encounters, because you think it's funny, and then leave them in the game in completely inappropriate moments for the player to encounter them because you think it's funny. You have hosed up. Maybe things have changed in like the.. 4 or so years since I played 1.3, I don't know. But I do know that the hack I played and beat was a broken mess. Made by a sperg who refused anyone telling him that something was dumb or too bullshit.
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Dec 31, 2016 18:47
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Shoren posted:If you can't be bothered to mess around with the systems you're given and figure that out then you're better off sticking to Mario. Or better yet, Final Fantasy. 
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Dec 31, 2016 18:48
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The Zodiac system in FFT is about as important for finishing the game as knowing IVs and EVs is for beating the Elite Four in a Pokemon game.Motto posted:Or better yet, Final Fantasy. The joke (assuming his choice of Mario was intentional) is that the first level of Mario Bros is considered one of the best examples of a game teaching you the basics without having to actually say anything, Megaman X does the same thing. 
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Dec 31, 2016 18:50
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Onmi posted:But I do know that the hack I played and beat was a broken mess. Made by a sperg who refused anyone telling him that something was dumb or too bullshit. Alright, let's dial that back, shall we. The creator of 1.3 has been plenty accommodating in explaining, here and elsewhere, just what his hack is about, who it's for and what he can and cannot accomplish with the tools he has to work with. That the end product is unpalatable to many, myself included, is something that at this point we have to chalk up to taste. You can go ahead and read his posts in an LP thread made on here if you want to see that he has mellowed out, if the existence of 1.3 Content by itself wasn't enough evidence.
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Dec 31, 2016 19:00
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Mario can also be loving hard as balls, especially once you get into ROM hack/Mario Maker territory (and there's quite a few ROM hacks that require you to know obscure Mario mechanics like SMB1 wall jumping), but even the later mainline games can be tough if you go the completionist route.
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Dec 31, 2016 19:02
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Mega64 posted:Mario can also be loving hard as balls, especially once you get into ROM hack/Mario Maker territory (and there's quite a few ROM hacks that require you to know obscure Mario mechanics like SMB1 wall jumping), but even the later mainline games can be tough if you go the completionist route. I think a lot of people, especially on game forums, have a really skewed idea of difficulty if just because you're not posting on here unless you play an above-average amount of games and the more games you play in general the easier games come across because you're already developing shared skills and the ability to read the 'language' of a game that is shared among different games. (i.e: If you get a shotgun you know it's 90% likely to be a close-range powerhouse/long-range wifflebat, you know the red barrel is probably explosive, you know an axe is probably stronger but less accurate than a sword, etc.) A lot of games are genuinely bad at teaching poo poo and tend to rely on their player base having been taught by someone else to get by. It's a pretty interesting thing. I kinda wish there was a good place to just discuss the teaching language of games because goddamn are some amazing at it and some complete rear end. FF included and in fact kind of spectacularly so. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Dec 31, 2016 |
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Dec 31, 2016 19:07
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ImpAtom posted:I think a lot of people, especially on game forums, have a really skewed idea of difficulty if just because you're not posting on here unless you play an above-average amount of games and the more games you play in general the easier games come across because you're already developing shared skills and the ability to read the 'language' of a game that is shared among different games. (i.e: If you get a shotgun you know it's 90% likely to be a close-range powerhouse/long-range wifflebat, you know the red barrel is probably explosive, you know an axe is probably stronger but less accurate than a sword, etc.) A lot of games are genuinely bad at teaching poo poo and tend to rely on their player base having been taught by someone else to get by. It's a pretty interesting thing. That sounds like a fantastic idea for a thread and I hope you or someone else makes it, if it doesn't already exist.
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Dec 31, 2016 19:14
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ImpAtom posted:I think a lot of people, especially on game forums, have a really skewed idea of difficulty if just because you're not posting on here unless you play an above-average amount of games and the more games you play in general the easier games come across because you're already developing shared skills and the ability to read the 'language' of a game that is shared among different games. (i.e: If you get a shotgun you know it's 90% likely to be a close-range powerhouse/long-range wifflebat, you know the red barrel is probably explosive, you know an axe is probably stronger but less accurate than a sword, etc.) A lot of games are genuinely bad at teaching poo poo and tend to rely on their player base having been taught by someone else to get back. It's a pretty interesting thing. This is absolutely a real problem in Romhacking communities. And a lot of devs will say "Well, I'm not expecting anyone who's playing this to have not played the original game." but I don't find that to be a good excuse. For example, in FE hacking, I know Dondon, who's a very good player of those games, he's beaten the majority of them on 0% growths (Your units gain no stats) and faster than most normal players can beat the game. But I remember having a long discussion with him over an AI exploit. The AI exploit was that, with a certain AI set up on a defense map, unless your unit was moved next to a unit, said unit would advance to the goal." Don seemed to think this was a massive exploit and the AI needed to be 'Fixed' so the player couldn't make it so the AI wouldn't aim for the goal, I argued that if you're placing a unit next to another unit to not kill them, provided the units strength (Which was a factor in the AI) then moving next to said unit was far more dangerous than a simple exploit. Unless one was purposefully tracking the RNG. It wasn't an exploit that could be abused by an average player. He couldn't see that the average player who wasn't tracking the RNG on every turn and hadn't mastered all the rescue chain warp staff exploits could possibly not exploit the AI. It is a vast minority who can pull off tricks like that, and while you can design a game for that minority, it is incredibly insular.
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Dec 31, 2016 19:15
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ImpAtom posted:I think a lot of people, especially on game forums, have a really skewed idea of difficulty if just because you're not posting on here unless you play an above-average amount of games and the more games you play in general the easier games come across because you're already developing shared skills and the ability to read the 'language' of a game that is shared among different games. (i.e: If you get a shotgun you know it's 90% likely to be a close-range powerhouse/long-range wifflebat, you know the red barrel is probably explosive, you know an axe is probably stronger but less accurate than a sword, etc.) A lot of games are genuinely bad at teaching poo poo and tend to rely on their player base having been taught by someone else to get by. It's a pretty interesting thing. This is so much more true than people realize. I had no idea how bad it was until I had to work daily with people who don't play or just don't care about games very much. The bit about the shotgun reminds me of an anecdote, actually: I worked LQA on a shooter a few years back and was one of the only people on the team who played games in his spare time. I had to play the game for about three months and eventually was able to clock one story playthrough a day without any trouble. One of my coworkers, however, could not do that. Even on Easy I had to take the controller away from them when coming up on a certain boss, months into the project. One day, near the end of the project, the traditional handoff of the controller happened and I took a look at their inventory... and all three weapons were shotguns. Same model, even, just with a few different mods. No pistol, automatic rifle or sniper rifle, which all used different types of ammo and of course were better adapted to different scenarios due to range and firepower, etc. Seems obvious to you and me! That coworker, however, just grabbed guns as they dropped and if they happened to be the exact same type of gun, that's just how it was. This was after months of playing that game five days a week.
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Dec 31, 2016 19:27
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Raxivace posted:He'll run them over with the Regalia. Fly into them with the Regalia
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Dec 31, 2016 19:33
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Cape Cod Crab Chip posted:This is so much more true than people realize. I had no idea how bad it was until I had to work daily with people who don't play or just don't care about games very much. The bit about the shotgun reminds me of an anecdote, actually: I worked LQA on a shooter a few years back and was one of the only people on the team who played games in his spare time. I had to play the game for about three months and eventually was able to clock one story playthrough a day without any trouble. One of my coworkers, however, could not do that. Even on Easy I had to take the controller away from them when coming up on a certain boss, months into the project. One day, near the end of the project, the traditional handoff of the controller happened and I took a look at their inventory... and all three weapons were shotguns. Same model, even, just with a few different mods. No pistol, automatic rifle or sniper rifle, which all used different types of ammo and of course were better adapted to different scenarios due to range and firepower, etc. Seems obvious to you and me! That coworker, however, just grabbed guns as they dropped and if they happened to be the exact same type of gun, that's just how it was. This was after months of playing that game five days a week. My example of this that, my girlfriend, who does not play video games except Fire Red which I had to help her on, tried to play FFV on my suggestion. She died to the first goblins in the game. I mean the ones from the opening. Because she didn't understand she had to hit A again on the GBA to confirm her hit.
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Dec 31, 2016 19:36
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Mega64 posted:That sounds like a fantastic idea for a thread and I hope you or someone else makes it, if it doesn't already exist. I may do so when I'm not prepping for New Years stuff actually. I'm the kind of dork who loves discussing that stuff and I know there's a lot of people on these forums can provide good insight. Onmi posted:He couldn't see that the average player who wasn't tracking the RNG on every turn and hadn't mastered all the rescue chain warp staff exploits could possibly not exploit the AI. It is a vast minority who can pull off tricks like that, and while you can design a game for that minority, it is incredibly insular. Yeah, I think it's really easy to lose track of how other people see games. I used to be really bad about that and annoyed the hell out of my friends by saying "Come on, it's super easy, you just need to X." Ironically the thing that really made me change my minds is when I started speaking to game developers and they were kind of flabbergasted at me dropping what seemed like basic knowledge to me and I realized that most of the time they spent talking to people (including other industry people) involved them having to deal a much lower baseline level of understanding. It isn't because they're dumb or anything (well, not exclusively at least.) It's just that video games can get pretty impenetrable if you're not regularly keeping up with them.
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Dec 31, 2016 19:36
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Fighting games is the biggest gap I feel. Hardcores say sfv has easy execution when thr vast majority of people struggle with a shoryuken input.
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Dec 31, 2016 19:39
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Oxxidation posted:Boy, capturing the Flan Princess and her spectacular tentacular buddy in WoFF is a bit of a chore, huh? I managed it after an hour or so, but that was way more dice rolls than I'm comfortable with for a single fight. Something that I didn't realize until later when I was reading this thread is that you can revive your dudes after killing them off to trigger her Imprism aura. It definitely makes it easier to capture her when you know that.
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Dec 31, 2016 19:42
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Tae posted:Fighting games is the biggest gap I feel. Hardcores say sfv has easy execution when thr vast majority of people struggle with a shoryuken input. please dont
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Dec 31, 2016 19:44
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ImpAtom posted:Yeah, I think it's really easy to lose track of how other people see games. I used to be really bad about that and annoyed the hell out of my friends by saying "Come on, it's super easy, you just need to X." Ironically the thing that really made me change my minds is when I started speaking to game developers and they were kind of flabbergasted at me dropping what seemed like basic knowledge to me and I realized that most of the time they spent talking to people (including other industry people) involved them having to deal a much lower baseline level of understanding. It isn't because they're dumb or anything (well, not exclusively at least.) It's just that video games can get pretty impenetrable if you're not regularly keeping up with them. The development side is the same, there's the image "The two states of the programmer, either they're a God or they have no idea what they're doing." this is utterly how it is. Once I figured out how to do something, it is incredibly easy to do. If I have not yet figured it out, it's completely impenetrable and impossible to touch. I remember talking to a developer who had, for over 3 years been working on a project and then all of a sudden developed a bug, and when I just said 'Revert to your last back up." he explained he didn't have a backup. That was so insane to me (And others) because I have folder upon folder of backup copies from my inevitable screw ups. And, trust me, when you implement something new and it doesn't work. It's never a 'smart' reason, why it doesn't work. It's never an answer that leaves you feeling good. 100% of the time it's something brain dead stupid you missed because this is the 400th line of code you're writing and you're trying to make some shortcuts. And you messed up one character on line 82 that was still technically correct for the game to read it but incorrect so as to bug the entire system. And much like with designing video games for people, the people who are good at designing video games in a technical aspect are awful at making tutorials for people to actually follow. I remember having to ask for help on, to me at the time, very complex things that were basic because "Oh we figured you would already know it's so simple." Like there's an assumption of knowledge to the point where Tutorials wont cover the basic things that need to be covered because "Well if you're doing this you have to know it already right?" I think the easiest way to break it down is. It's hard to realize that the knowledge you are operating on is not necessarily the knowledge everyone is operating on. Things that appear to be simple and common sense to you, may not be for other people. Tae posted:Fighting games is the biggest gap I feel. Hardcores say sfv has easy execution when thr vast majority of people struggle with a shoryuken input. I'm still no good at fighting game inputs, and I've been playing them since I was a little kid.
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Dec 31, 2016 19:45
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pokemon yellow is the hardest game in the world because it's the only one i had to get my dad to help me play he showed me how to get out the house you start in
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Dec 31, 2016 19:45
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mandatory lesbian posted:pokemon yellow is the hardest game in the world because it's the only one i had to get my dad to help me play Pokemon Yellow was my first game that was not on an Amiga and it was in Japanese. I had no idea what I was doing and the strength puzzles utterly eluded me in Victory Road because I didn't read the buttons as buttons and had no feedback when stepping on them. That's ignoring all the other issues of not having any idea what the language was of the game you're playing.
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Dec 31, 2016 19:47
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mandatory lesbian posted:pokemon yellow is the hardest game in the world because it's the only one i had to get my dad to help me play 
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Dec 31, 2016 19:58
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Tae posted:Fighting games is the biggest gap I feel. Hardcores say sfv has easy execution when thr vast majority of people struggle with a shoryuken input. wells sf5 is also one that teaches you in a very poor manner. The inputs are muscle memory, because of all the methods of input it's kinda hard to have a blanket sure fire way to teach that, everything outside of that being taught though is the bigger communication barrier in fighters. i think story telling sometimes uses the "you know this right?" sometimes as well. SectumSempra fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Dec 31, 2016 |
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Dec 31, 2016 20:00
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The other thing is that anyone familiar with shotguns could be forgiven for assuming that a game shotgun would be able to tickle things beyond like 20 feet.
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Dec 31, 2016 20:02
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Shadow Ninja 64 posted:Something that I didn't realize until later when I was reading this thread is that you can revive your dudes after killing them off to trigger her Imprism aura. It definitely makes it easier to capture her when you know that. I figured that out from the start, but you still have the random elements of whether you get Berserk'd, whether you can proc statuses on the Malboro, and of course whether the Imprism ever lands messing up your chances. Though now I've made it to the Mist Dragons and I get the feeling they're going to be an even bigger headache to capture unless I feel like blowing through my Elixir stockpile.
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Dec 31, 2016 22:22
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ImpAtom posted:Yeah, I think it's really easy to lose track of how other people see games. I'd imagine there's similar stories about sports or literature or people's jobs or anything else you can think of. Raxivace fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Dec 31, 2016 |
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Dec 31, 2016 22:48
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