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Assuming linear scaling, SLI and CrossFire are excellent values and a great way to improve the performance of your machine! I mean, I know what Intel is going for is a lot more scalable, but I'd be pretty impressed if they actually got close to linear performance with first round hardware and drivers.
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Feb 11, 2020 20:56
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Unless Intel has seriously hosed up, they should absolutely get linear scaling. Multi chip is very different from XF/SLI. GPUs are ultra-parallel computers. Building a multi-chiplet GPU should fundamentally be easier than building a multi-chiplet CPU like Ryzen/Threadripper/Epyc. I expect these products to suck, but that should be because it's a new baby architecture with tons of catching up to do and inevitably immature drivers. The chiplet thing is where everyone is going, AMD and Nvidia are taking their time because they already have existing architectures that are worth working with for now, but they will ultimately end up in the same place.
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Feb 11, 2020 21:27
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In theory it should be, sure. But at the same time, there are reasons that AMD and NVidia haven't gone there yet, and it's not all just because it's easy to keep churning on current arch. If it was that easy, NVidia in particular would likely already be doing it, rather than futzing around with NVLink. I agree that it's absolutely the future, but getting it working right isn't trivial.
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Feb 11, 2020 21:39
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VelociBacon posted:I'm looking for a pc case. same
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Feb 11, 2020 21:46
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For fiddling with my Pulse 5600 XT settings am I better off using the Sapphire Trixx software or something like Afterburner? I seem to recall some are better than others.
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Feb 11, 2020 22:36
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DrDork posted:In theory it should be, sure. But at the same time, there are reasons that AMD and NVidia haven't gone there yet, and it's not all just because it's easy to keep churning on current arch. If it was that easy, NVidia in particular would likely already be doing it, rather than futzing around with NVLink. Yep. If scheduling was trivial, chiplet gpus would've been a thing ages ago.
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Feb 11, 2020 23:17
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The Scottish guy made a video about how lovely AMD's graphics drivers are: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x-QSi_yvoU I personally have an RX 580 (Polaris) and I haven't had any issues but it sounds like people with Vega and Navi are seeing a lot more issues.
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Feb 12, 2020 02:39
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Mr.Radar posted:The Scottish guy made a video about how lovely AMD's graphics drivers are: I seen the black screen for the first time yesterday but only effected my primary monitor which uses display port, a restart fixed it though.
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Feb 12, 2020 05:16
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How much more optimized are games on current consoles compared to equivalent PCs?
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Feb 12, 2020 10:22
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Shaocaholica posted:How much more optimized are games on current consoles compared to equivalent PCs? How long is a piece of string? Some games are better than others. God of War is black magic that has no right running on the hardware that it does, for example.
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Feb 12, 2020 10:47
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:How long is a piece of string? Some games are better than others. God of War is black magic that has no right running on the hardware that it does, for example. So basically, a lot more optimized but never less.
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Feb 12, 2020 11:01
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Considering developers know exactly what is in consoles, while they have to design for literally millions of different combinations of PC hardware, it's not exactly surprising that if you got a roughly equivalent PC to console spec, it will never run the same game on equivalent settings quite as well. There's a reason they can get games like Witcher 3 and Doom 2016 to run on Switch
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Feb 12, 2020 11:12
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Lol Doom 2016 is on the switch? I don't get out much.
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Feb 12, 2020 11:18
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Shaocaholica posted:So basically, a lot more optimized but never less.  ).
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Feb 12, 2020 11:25
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wargames posted:I seen the black screen for the first time yesterday but only effected my primary monitor which uses display port, a restart fixed it though. On the first black it crashed, a restart fixed it tho A cartridge for a filetree On the second black it crashed, a restart fixed it tho Two hours gone, and A cartridge for a filetree Imagine how glorious and resonating the choir sounds while singing "a restart fixed it tho" like it's AMDs new company motto lmao Ahh sick days are such a double edged sword of pants making GBS threads and poo poo posting Worf fucked around with this message at 11:32 on Feb 12, 2020 |
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Feb 12, 2020 11:30
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:Considering developers know exactly what is in consoles, while they have to design for literally millions of different combinations of PC hardware, it's not exactly surprising that if you got a roughly equivalent PC to console spec, it will never run the same game on equivalent settings quite as well. Are PCs using a lot more APIs to deal with hardware variance then consoles? It sounds like I'm being snarky but I honestly don't know. I'm assuming that counts for a lot of performance regression.
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Feb 12, 2020 13:28
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One thing to consider is that different hardware has different strengths (for example, one method of achieving something might work better on AMD graphics card of a specific generation than Nvidia cards): With a console, you know the strengths and weaknesses of the hardware and can specifically chose algorithms that favor these machines.
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Feb 12, 2020 13:43
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You also don't have to worry about the user setting up unrealistic settings or even wanting customisation options on a console, you set precisely the level of quality you want.
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Feb 12, 2020 16:50
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Shaocaholica posted:Lol Doom 2016 is on the switch? I don't get out much. Been out a while & surprisingly plays well at 720p on it
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Feb 12, 2020 17:58
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Lambert posted:One thing to consider is that different hardware has different strengths (for example, one method of achieving something might work better on AMD graphics card of a specific generation than Nvidia cards): With a console, you know the strengths and weaknesses of the hardware and can specifically chose algorithms that favor these machines. I feel like this is less and less applicable with consoles and PCs being so similar now days. Any optimizations/algorithms you do on either platform would most likely be applicable to the other. The only thing I can think of is that generally CPUs are better on PCs because they kind of need to be but consoles have better memory setup like the X with its all GDDR5. It's crazy that the X is only like $200-250 now on the used market.
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Feb 12, 2020 18:14
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Shaocaholica posted:I feel like this is less and less applicable with consoles and PCs being so similar now days. Any optimizations/algorithms you do on either platform would most likely be applicable to the other. The only thing I can think of is that generally CPUs are better on PCs because they kind of need to be but consoles have better memory setup like the X with its all GDDR5. It's crazy that the X is only like $200-250 now on the used market. It's more that the game might not run as well as it could if you run methods that work better on AMD cards on an Nvidia card, for example (like specific optimizations for the GCN-era architecture in consoles). In regards to RAM, consoles are pretty memory starved; and for CPU computing purposes, GDDR5 isn't better-suited than DDR.
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Feb 12, 2020 18:17
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Shaocaholica posted:I feel like this is less and less applicable with consoles and PCs being so similar now days. Any optimizations/algorithms you do on either platform would most likely be applicable to the other. The only thing I can think of is that generally CPUs are better on PCs because they kind of need to be but consoles have better memory setup like the X with its all GDDR5. It's crazy that the X is only like $200-250 now on the used market. They're just so constrained on the PC now with DDR4, and I think the next gen consoles will start to show that contrast in price/perf with the PC more than ever before when the major bottleneck in their APU currently - the CPU - will no longer be the case. I mean according to everything we know, the next PS4/Xbox would make for a honkin' PC in all aspects - storage, cpu, gpu. I mean technically you could use the APU in an X currently being sold as a PC, but it's CPU would be pancaked by any dual-core I3 in everyday tasks and the 2.5 HDD would further compound that. That won't be the case going forward, and albeit an entirely different memory system in the consoles means a transition to a PC product is certainly not easy, I hope AMD takes their experience with building APU's on a power level that haven't existed before and eventually releases something on the PC in the same price/performance class.
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Feb 12, 2020 19:41
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Lambert posted:It's more that the game might not run as well as it could if you run methods that work better on AMD cards on an Nvidia card, for example (like specific optimizations for the GCN-era architecture in consoles). Wolfenstein 2 has a pretty good demonstration of this, they implemented a compute-based geometry culling system to work around GCNs weak raster pipe, but made it optional on PC. It turns out that on Nvidia cards it's usually faster to disable the culling pass and let the raster pipe brute force through everything.
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Feb 12, 2020 20:06
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Alchenar posted:You also don't have to worry about the user setting up unrealistic settings or even wanting customisation options on a console, you set precisely the level of quality you want. but will you get it? NO 1080p upscaled to 4k isnt 4k and 60 fps dipping to 30 regularly isnt 60fps
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Feb 12, 2020 20:08
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Happy_Misanthrope posted:For all the talk about future GPU's, about the only area that really piques my interest on the PC these days is APU's, specifically what they'll be able to do when HBM finally gets affordable enough to actually include 8+gb in one and still keep it relatively cheap (in other words, not hades-canyon pricing). I don't know what the investment level is for HBM3/3E but they seem to have the bus width down that just need to increase clock rate i think.
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Feb 12, 2020 20:20
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Happy_Misanthrope posted:I mean according to everything we know, the next PS4/Xbox would make for a honkin' PC in all aspects - storage, cpu, gpu. And according to everything we know, they won't. TDP constrained CPU combined with middle class graphics card and a cheap NVMe controller. They're not going to be honkin'. Lambert fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Feb 12, 2020 |
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Feb 12, 2020 20:59
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For the price they should have pretty great performance. $400 doesn't buy you a whole lot of PC, after all. But, yes, otherwise you're right--the overall performance compared to the PC market looks like it'll be decidedly middle of the road. Thing is, that's several steps up from where it is now, which is (understandably) making a lot of people with lower-end PCs nervous about being left behind.
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Feb 12, 2020 21:12
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I think the combination of being middle of the road while also being massively optimized makes its attractive. Once you put a desktop OS and apps on there it would just be a goofy mid range PC although with a really good price/perf ratio because consoles are loss leaders but they won't let you do that so its merely a 'on paper' metric.
Shaocaholica fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Feb 12, 2020 |
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Feb 12, 2020 21:18
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Shaocaholica posted:I think the combination of being middle of the road while also being massively optimized makes its attractive. Once you put a desktop OS and apps on there it would just be a goofy mid range PC although with a really good price/perf ratio because consoles are loss leaders but they won't let you do that so its merely a 'on paper' metric. The specs sound pretty good, people just like to poo poo on consoles for some reason despite the fact the hardware will be faster than a lot of peoples PCs. Too many people forget we’re the outliers here and a ton of people are still running hardware from the bulldozer and sandybridge eras.
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Feb 12, 2020 21:32
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Sure. I wonder what their pricing will be; current expectation seems to be the $500-$600 range.
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Feb 12, 2020 21:53
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Lambert posted:And according to everything we know, they won't. TDP constrained CPU combined with middle class graphics card and a cheap NVMe controller. They're not going to be honkin'. So, only a PC better than 90% of Steam survey results then, ok
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Feb 12, 2020 22:41
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Happy_Misanthrope posted:So, only a PC better than 90% of Steam survey results then, ok To be fair, the public SteamSurvey results are hilariously problematic because of how everything gets counted. People who play a single Indy 2D game on their 5 year old laptop while waiting on hold at work get counted the same as anyone else, yet that person isn't necessarily the type to buy either a console or a gaming PC. But, yes, upping the base power expectations for new games made for the next gen of consoles is going to force a LOT of people to upgrade off of machines they've been riding happily for years.
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Feb 13, 2020 00:29
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It's less the laptops skewing the steam survey and more all the poors in China, Russia, and South America.
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Feb 13, 2020 00:46
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Yeah, doesn't Steam do something like count each login on the same computer as separate entries in their hardware report? That means low-spec Internet Cafe systems are over-represented in their stats because lots of different people will log in to them (though in a way that is an accurate representation of the market for games on Steam). The other major public hardware survey I'm aware of is the Firefox hardware survey. According to that report 64% of systems have an Intel GPU (i.e. no dedicated graphics), 17% have Nvidia and 15% AMD (and the rest "other") and the dedicated GPUs tend strongly towards the older (the most popular specific models are cards from the late-00s/early-10s before Intel HD graphics really became acceptable for desktop use). The report also says 1080p screens only passed 768p screens in popularity last year(!) and dual core CPUs are still by far the most popular at 58% of the market, with quad cores following at 32%. Any system with 8 Zen 2 CPU cores (even downclocked) and a Radeon 5700-class (or better) GPU is absolutely better than 95% of the total PC market. Reading enthusiast PC forums really does skew your view of what people are using. Mr.Radar fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Feb 13, 2020 |
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Feb 13, 2020 01:12
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I don't think anyone's quite sure, but I believe the prevailing opinion is that each account gets counted separately--so yeah, from a certain perspective internet cafes have an outsized impact. From a different perspective, though, that's entirely the point, as you note: 100 dudes who only get to play games on a budget internet cafe don't magically count less than 1 dude who built his own PC. If you're a game developer and want to know what hardware your customers are actually using, those 100 poors may very well be a big chunk of your market. The FireFox survey is in some ways even more problematic, since now you're bringing in massive numbers of work computers where people literally don't have a choice in what they use. Again, as a developer that's still very relevant information, but as a "what do people use at home" question, it's problematic. And the "total PC market" is almost meaningless when you're talking about gaming. By that metric 90% of PCs will never be used for games other than maybe Farmville, because they're work machines, momtops, etc. The market of people who are willing to plunk down $500 on a console or $$$ on a PC is quite a bit smaller. None of this really changes the end take-away, though: a lot of people who play games on PCs are going to need to upgrade once games developed assuming the performance of the next gen consoles start hitting shelves. That's really the only thing that matters. DrDork fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Feb 13, 2020 |
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Feb 13, 2020 02:16
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DrDork posted:And the "total PC market" is almost meaningless when you're talking about gaming. By that metric 90% of PCs will never be used for games other than maybe Farmville, because they're work machines, momtops, etc. Most of these PCs were replaced with iPads. X86 is overkill for timewaste gaming and less portable/disposable, which is what Mom wants.
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Feb 13, 2020 03:30
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I identify with MomtopCraptacular! posted:Most of these PCs were replaced with iPads. X86 is overkill for timewaste gaming and less portable/disposable, which is what Mom wants. Yeah please tell this to MS re: sleep modes
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Feb 13, 2020 03:39
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B-Mac posted:The specs sound pretty good, people just like to poo poo on consoles for some reason despite the fact the hardware will be faster than a lot of peoples PCs. Too many people forget we’re the outliers here and a ton of people are still running hardware from the bulldozer and sandybridge eras. I still have a stack of daily driven Core2s.
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Feb 13, 2020 03:56
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Mr.Radar posted:Yeah, doesn't Steam do something like count each login on the same computer as separate entries in their hardware report? That means low-spec Internet Cafe systems are over-represented in their stats because lots of different people will log in to them (though in a way that is an accurate representation of the market for games on Steam). I think they started adjusting for that at some point.
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Feb 13, 2020 05:33
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It’s not that hard. Windows UUID or MAC address.
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Feb 13, 2020 06:46
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