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Necron Codex hard copy in Australia $55, Necron Codex via iTunes $36. Now if only I had an ipad...................I think its a trap.
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Jul 8, 2012 03:14
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Phyresis posted:Lemartes is terrible, he only gets 4+ Look Out, Sir! It's better to attach a Reclusiarch or Chaplain. Yes but it saves a slot and you want 1+ Librarians and probably Priests, Terminators and one other thing. No 2+ Look Out Sir! is a pain but he's really just an extra two wounds that gives rerolls to hit and wound. You say later you use Death Company on foot so, yeah, that wastes his Jump Pack and makes him a bit more expensive for nothing so if you've got the slots free maybe a Reclusiarch is worth it instead but we were talking about JP DC. Unit upgrade characters are a bit weaker but they're amazing for Allies or when you're otherwise FOC constrained (Though Astorath + Death Company + Death Dread + Stormraven would be an awesome allied black murder bus[That dies to a Hydra and costs a million points])
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Jul 8, 2012 03:14
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Killer_Bees! posted:Necron Codex hard copy in Australia $55, Necron Codex via iTunes $36. Now if only I had an ipad...................I think its a trap. No don't!  Everyone knows that GW is phasing out iPads.Edit: I'm considering picking up a Doom Scythe now, to bring my Flyers to three. Two zooming 36" in and delivering troops and another nuking an opposing Flyer off the table almost without question is a tempting idea, especially if I can make sure that no Interceptor units exist on the table at the time. PierreTheMime fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Jul 8, 2012 |
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Jul 8, 2012 03:15
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Karandras posted:Yes but it saves a slot and you want 1+ Librarians and probably Priests, Terminators and one other thing. No 2+ Look Out Sir! is a pain but he's really just an extra two wounds that gives rerolls to hit and wound. My Blood Angels lists are never pressed for slots, never ever. Especially not in 6th, with allies. You can get 3 Priests in 1 slot, and I'm not sure that you want to take anything more than one Librarian as HQ, depending on the list of course. Terminators as well... not sure how they fit into the army yet, but I sure could use the 2+ armour and power fists. Lemartes is not worth 150 points for 2 wounds and the reroll when you can easily fit a chappy or reclusiarch into your list.
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Jul 8, 2012 03:21
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Had my first game of 6th edition today! I used my Valhallans and my dad used my Orks. Points were 1150 because that's all the Valhallan I have at the moment. I didn't write up a battle report or anything because we were too busy focusing on how the game plays. We played the Big Guns Never Tire mission with the table corners deployment, which I prefer to the old table quarters. Feels much more organic, and gives my artillery more of a backfield to deploy in. I like the new victory points system. At the end of the game we totaled them up and if I hadn't killed his warboss in turn 5 he would have won! My Valhallans eked out a close victory and it was a lot of fun. However, two bits of wonkiness came up during the game, and I'd like some clarification: - He had a squad of Orks with the nob as the closest target to my squad. I hit him something like 7 times, which led to him taking a save, failing it, then doing a Look Out Sir! roll for each failed save. He kept doing these til he died, even beyond the 2 wounds he was initially caused. Was this done correctly? - Ordnance barrage weapons take casualties out starting from where the template hits. Because of this my mortars and Master of Ordnance were taking big chunks out of Ork units. However, blast weapons do not have this rule and casualties are taken from the closest model like any other shooting. This seems strangely inconsistent and abstract, which this edition seems to be trying to get away from. Was this done correctly?
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Jul 8, 2012 03:27
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SRM posted:- He had a squad of Orks with the nob as the closest target to my squad. I hit him something like 7 times, which led to him taking a save, failing it, then doing a Look Out Sir! roll for each failed save. He kept doing these til he died, even beyond the 2 wounds he was initially caused. Was this done correctly? Nope you guys did it totally wrong. You take all the wounds right before you allocate them they form a "wound pool." You start allocating them, and see that the Nob is closest. The wound is being allocated to him so your dad has to decide then whether to try for Look Out, Sir! on a 4+ or to take the wound on the Nob and try to save it. You do this individually for every wound, so if the Nob dies the next wound is just going to the nearest Boy, and so on.
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Jul 8, 2012 03:31
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Sorted, anyone going to Winter Warfest? 
Cassa fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Jul 8, 2012 |
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Jul 8, 2012 03:36
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Phyresis posted:My Blood Angels lists are never pressed for slots, never ever. Especially not in 6th, with allies. You can get 3 Priests in 1 slot, and I'm not sure that you want to take anything more than one Librarian as HQ, depending on the list of course. Terminators as well... not sure how they fit into the army yet, but I sure could use the 2+ armour and power fists. Lemartes is not worth 150 points for 2 wounds and the reroll when you can easily fit a chappy or reclusiarch into your list. Lemartes is only 25pts more than an equiv elites choice Chaplain with a jump pack, has +2 init (i6), Furious Charge, a MC weapon (Not that great considering he already rerolls on the charge), Feel No Pain and Rage (Which is a free attack now!). Then he also goes to A5 and S5 when he "suffers an unsaved wound" which is the same wording as FNP, so you can pass your FNP save and still hulk out. If you manage to hulk out before you get to combat you're talking an amazing charge (A7!) He also saves a slot if you're jonesing for Elites/HQ choices (Which I always am in my lists) but YMMV of course. For 25pts and downgrading 2+ to 4+ Look Out Sir! that's a pretty drat good deal really. If you're not using the Jump Pack, like you, and have a free elites or HQ slot then it might be worth grabbing a normal Chaplain and replacing their pistol with a Fist, that means you can still do well in challenges and get the +1 attack for Specialist Weapons or upgrading to a three wound Reclusiarch if you've really got the points to spare but Lemartes is far from terrible even if he is a bit easier to pick out and I guess the Jump Pack still gives you the charge bonus hit even if the rest of the squad doesn't have one so it isn't a total waste.
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Jul 8, 2012 03:45
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PierreTheMime posted:No don't! Having played two games against Necron flyers I can say they're definitely a threat. The Doom Scythe is particularly nasty. Question for everyone; at what point do you decide to demand a new Finecast model? I've got a Zagstruk model who has some voids around his shirt, and voids and remnants of mold in the rokkit. I'm debating whether or not to demand a new one, given that it's $25 and I feel I shouldn't have to fix all of these mistakes.
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Jul 8, 2012 03:53
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If I'm reading page 96 about Emplaced Weapons correctly: as a Tyranids player, even if I buy an Aegis Defence Line with a Quad Gun, it will automatically fire, with BS 2, at the closest enemy unit it has line of site to. It also has the Interceptor special rule, which means it can choose to fire at the end of the enemy's Movement phase at a unit that arrived from Reserves that turn. Does this make Aegis Defense Lines worthless unless Tyranids want to get re-rolls for reserves, or would you assume the Interceptor rule overrides the 'automatically shoot at nearest enemy' section? I've started assuming that this kind of question will always be resolved in the worst possible way for Tyranids. Discospawn fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Jul 8, 2012 |
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Jul 8, 2012 03:53
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I value the 2+ Look Out, Sir! much higher than you do, apparently. As far as I can tell, close combat in 6th is focused around special character delivery systems (attempting or nullifying challenges is big) so I'm valuing the ability heavily because of that. The chappy setup you have is honestly what I'd go with, but DC are amazing on their own and chaps/lemmy are frankly Not Good in challenges. Therefore I have elected to run my DC in big blobs, almost naked. Maybe a fist or two in the back. My primary gimmick was to Gate them around with a C:SM Librarian but I'm currently quite leery of depending on psychic powers, having ran face-first into Runes of Warding yesterday.
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Jul 8, 2012 03:58
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What do people think of Stormravens now? With Grey Knights, I'm really tempted to get one or two, jam a bunch of either Purifiers or Terminators with falchions (probably the latter so I can use a teleport homer for more flexible disembarkation), put a bunch of guns on it, get psybolt ammo & then have a mobile assault bus that can also glance vehicles & strafe the hell out of infantry. It seems really fun on paper. The list would be something like 20 terminators, combat squaded with psycannons deploying on the table & the half with ccw's & stormbolters in the ravens, 2 ravens, & 3 psyfilemen dreads. Leaves precious little on the table turn 1, but that would be a pretty fun list. Not sure what HQ I'd bring for it, but it'd probably sit somewhere in the 2-2.5k region.
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Jul 8, 2012 04:09
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Phyresis posted:Nope you guys did it totally wrong. You take all the wounds right before you allocate them they form a "wound pool." You start allocating them, and see that the Nob is closest. The wound is being allocated to him so your dad has to decide then whether to try for Look Out, Sir! on a 4+ or to take the wound on the Nob and try to save it. You do this individually for every wound, so if the Nob dies the next wound is just going to the nearest Boy, and so on. So let's say the Nob is closest, and there are 7 wounds. Nob takes a wound, fails his save, and an Ork Boy successfully Look Out, Sir!'s and gets shot instead. Anyway, lets say he takes 4 more wounds before he goes down, so potentially of the 7 wounds inflicted on the squad, 5 of them went on the Nob and 2 onto the Boyz behind him, correct? In short: Y is my guy shooting, X is the Nob, and O are boyz: Y-----XOOO The Nob has to die before any wounds go onto the guys behind him, barring Look Out, Sir! saves? That's how we played it and how I thought it was written in the rules.
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Jul 8, 2012 04:49
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Deviant posted:Marines don't like the Inquisition. Sisters of Battle aren't part of the Inquisition.
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Jul 8, 2012 04:52
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PeterWeller posted:Sisters of Battle aren't part of the Inquisition. Yeah, aren't they forces of the ecclesiarchy? So ladies with a boner for the emperor charging around, and basically acting the same way as Marines do, just with more fire.
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Jul 8, 2012 05:06
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SRM posted:It says in the ruling "When a Wound (or unsaved Wound) is allocated to one of your characters..." you can take the roll. Does a failed armor save count as an unsaved Wound? The issue here is the allocation. My understanding from reading the rules is that you cannot allocate a wound more than once. Once you allocate the wound the results are "inflicted" if the roll is failed. Allocation occurs the moment you direct the wound to a specific target, and you make rolls associated with that target. The reason they bring up unsaved wounds is for when you do the "speed rolling" approach where everyone has the same armor save. Let's give two examples using the arrangement showed above with the Nob in front. In both cases the ork boy squad has to allocate 5 wounds. The wounds are AP- so armor saves can be made. In example 1 the Nob has the same 6+ save as everyone else. In example 2 the Nob has 'Eavy Armour and is therefore entitled to a 4+ save while everyone else maintains their 6+ save. In example one you would roll 5 armor saves at 6+, and then by the shooting allocation rules the Nob would take the wounds. He would then get a 4+ LOSir roll for each wound until he was killed. Any wounds that made the 4+ would be reallocated to another friendly model with 6". In example two the unit is considered a mixed-save unit due to the presence of 'Eavy armour. In this case the wound would be allocated to the Nob due to him being up front. He would then have the opportunity to use LOSir to reallocate the wound to a different model. In either case an armor save (using either 4+ or 6+) would be made after the wound was allocated. What you cannot do is have the nob roll the save with his 4+, fail it, and then use LOSir to allocate the wound to another model. The reason for this is because you've already allocated the wound to the Nob by rolling his save, and the result is inflicted on the Nob. TLDR: LOSir only applies when the wound is allocated, which occurs either before or after saves depending on if the unit is a mixed save unit.
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Jul 8, 2012 05:09
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kannonfodder posted:Yeah, aren't they forces of the ecclesiarchy? So ladies with a boner for the emperor charging around, and basically acting the same way as Marines do, just with more fire. Yeah, they're the military order of the Ecclesiarchy, established in part because the Ecclesiarchy is banned from having men under arms. They get associated with the Ordo Hereticus because they're the military force most often called upon by OH inquisitors, and because the two were included together in the old Witch Hunters codex. But that book was very clear on their relationship, and it was really a case of there being more imperial sub-factions than codices. It's the same reason why Ordos Hereticus and Xenos inquisitors are in the GK codex, even though they really have no reason to work with the Grey Knights. Really, with the new ally rules, Inquisitors should be pulled out of the GK codex and made into their own force that allies with other imperial forces with varying levels of dependability based on the ordos and other faction involved, like OM inquisitors are battle brothers with GK, but OX are allies of convenience and OH are desperate allies. E: I really like using LOSir to reduce confusion with LoS.
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Jul 8, 2012 05:18
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PeterWeller posted:It's the same reason why Ordos Hereticus and Xenos inquisitors are in the GK codex, even though they really have no reason to work with the Grey Knights. matward retconned it so that Grey Knights are now the militant arm of the entire Inquisition
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Jul 8, 2012 05:20
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Phyresis posted:matward retconned it so that Grey Knights are now the militant arm of the entire Inquisition Of course he did. But that's clearly fluff to justify their inclusion. Re-retcon that poo poo. While at it, get rid of all the stuff that gives bhsman a conniption. PeterWeller fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Jul 8, 2012 |
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Jul 8, 2012 05:21
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PeterWeller posted:Of course he did. Then I can only play my Space Wolves army, and I do like playing Blood Angels and Grey Knights as well!
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Jul 8, 2012 05:23
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PeterWeller posted:E: I really like using LOSir to reduce confusion with LoS. Thanks! I've been using LoSir and LoSight so there's no confusion.
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Jul 8, 2012 05:23
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PeterWeller posted:E: I really like using LOSir to reduce confusion with LoS. Agreeing with this. So hard. Plus, we can call the one who takes the bullet the losir.
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Jul 8, 2012 05:23
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Phyresis posted:Then I can only play my Space Wolves army, and I do like playing Blood Angels and Grey Knights as well! Of course you'd keep all the good rules he wrote.
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Jul 8, 2012 05:24
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PeterWeller posted:Of course you'd keep all the good rules he wrote. I dunno man, it's bhsman vs. Matthew Ward we're talking about here. I'm pretty sure I'd be using the old WD article BA army.
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Jul 8, 2012 05:25
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I need a 6th ed ruling goons - sorry if this has been asked already since I'm still playing thread catch-up. After skimming through the rules our group has a dispute about Flying Monstrous Creatures (FMC): Firstly, which we believe is covered by the FAQ - adding Wings to a CSM Demon Prince makes him a FMC, correct? Otherwise he's just a Jump Monstrous Creature which seems like a stupid way to do it... Assuming this is indeed a FMC - the rules for such indicate that when arriving from Reserves you choose either Glide or Swoop mode (something like that) - one is the 'hover' one and the other is 'zoomy', respectively. My interpretation is that when the Prince arrives from Deep Strike you can choose either mode because that's how he's arriving - using the wings - and the rules tell you to choose a mode. My friends are saying that since the Swoop rules state this mode 'must move at least 12 inches" you can't do this since movement is not allowed after Deep Strike - but that doesn't make any sense to me from RAW or RAI. IFF he were moving under this mode you are obligated to move a minimum of 12", but since you have arrived via Deep Strike your movement is already spoken for, so "counts as moving" and move on with your turn with your swoopy Prince and try not to get shot down - right??
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Jul 8, 2012 05:45
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The CSM DP is in fact not a flying monstrous creature.Phyresis posted:I dunno man, it's bhsman vs. Matthew Ward we're talking about here. I'm pretty sure I'd be using the old WD article BA army. Codex: Angels of Death most likely.
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Jul 8, 2012 05:49
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So far every 6th edition game I've played has been with my Tyranids. Tomorrow i will be playing with my Imperial Guard for the first time. I've made a new list. May be good, may be poo poo. HQ Company Command - Colonel Straken, 3x Melta, 1x medic, Astropath - 230 points Chimera - 55 points Primaris Psyker - 70 Points Troops Platoon Command Squad, 4x flamers - 70 points Chimera - 55 points Infantry Squad x3, Power Ax x3, Commissar with power ax, 3x Flamer - 240 Points Ministorum Priest, Eviscerator - 60 points Platoon Command Squad, 4x Melta - 90 points Infantry Squad x3, Power ax x3, Commissar with power ax, 3x lascannon - 285 points Fast Attack Vendetta as a flyer - 130 points Vendetta as a flyer - 130 points Heavy Support Manticore - 160 points Leman Russ Demolisher - 165 points Hydra x2 - 150 points I'll be playing a few games. One against Sisters, one against Dark Eldar. I think it will do well, but with the new rules, who the gently caress knows. Master Twig fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Jul 8, 2012 |
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Jul 8, 2012 05:52
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You know drat well that's perfectly good list (because it looks very similar to the list I'm planning on using). One suggestion I've heard is to have a barebones sergeant in those blobs to eat challenges. Also I like having at least one set of meltabombs in each platoon in case someone gets cute and charges you with a walker, or if there's a transport trying to contest your objective or something.
nuncle jimbo fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Jul 8, 2012 |
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Jul 8, 2012 06:05
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They really should make Target Lock into the anti-flier upgrade for Tau. Since it now does nothing~ It could easily (and named aptly) be used for handling fliers since there's absolutely no way to do it effectively in the Tau Codex. Can anyone tell me the chance of 3 broadsides hitting and destroying a flier that was Zooming (say 36")? It seems insanely low. Even immobilized results are completely pointless and won't stop the hail of Bloodstrike Missiles. At least something needs to be done before they rerelease the codex.
hobocrunch fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Jul 8, 2012 |
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Jul 8, 2012 06:25
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hobocrunch posted:They really should make Target Lock into the anti-flier upgrade for Tau. Since it now does nothing~ It could easily (and named aptly) be used for handling fliers since there's absolutely no way to do it effectively in the Tau Codex. Can anyone tell me the chance of 3 broadsides hitting and destroying a flier that was Zooming (say 36")? It seems insanely low. Even immobilized results are completely pointless and won't stop the hail of Bloodstrike Missiles. At least something needs to be done before they rerelease the codex. Twin-linked BS1? Better than most, to be honest.
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Jul 8, 2012 06:31
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Der Waffle Mous posted:Twin-linked BS1? But Tau doesn't really have weapons in between Pulse Rifles and Railguns that will be effective except Ion Canons which are still on tanks as it is. If Tau could get STR8+ heavy weapons in their troops choices then I might agree. Fact is though that we need to pay a heap for "amazing weapons" which are amazing on everything except fliers. The point is that I spend 200 odd points on a broadside team that are supposed to be be able to do that job and they can't. The only other option I really see is getting 3 Ion Canon Hammerheads. That's still expensive. The other option of course is stacking Markerlights which of course also need the 6 to hit and you still need to back it up with the heavy support. All these options cost far more points than what they'll achieve and at the end of the day it's probably just easier to not take any of them and ignore the fliers and go for objectives. Which is super dumb and not 40k at all. hobocrunch fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Jul 8, 2012 |
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Jul 8, 2012 06:40
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Master Twig posted:So far every 6th edition game I've played has been with my Tyranids. Tomorrow i will be playing with my Imperial Guard for the first time. I've made a new list. May be good, may be poo poo. You have some very odd choices. CCS with medic but packing melta instead of plasma. 2 largish squads for bubblewrap. Giving lascannons to one of said squads. Not having anything actually scary for them to cover, at that points level. I don't know about sisters, but a good DE army will tear that apart; all those points spent on close combat blobs with no mobility, and no good ranged firepower aside from the manticore and the vendettas. Once he takes those out he can just pick the rest of your army apart at his leisure.
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Jul 8, 2012 06:59
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Master Twig posted:So far every 6th edition game I've played has been with my Tyranids. Tomorrow i will be playing with my Imperial Guard for the first time. I've made a new list. May be good, may be poo poo. Well one of your "assault" blobs is dragging around embedded heavy weapons which will be worthless once you're in assault. Otherwise your heavy support options seem to lack focus, manticore and demolisher are both great this edition, but if you can maybe throw in two of one, instead of one of each?
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Jul 8, 2012 07:00
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ForeverFlashlight posted:right?? In your situation, the first thing I'd like to point out is that a Daemon Prince from the Chaos Space Marine Codex is a Jump Monstrous Creature, not a Flying Monstrous Creature--this has already been stated by PeterWeller. In other words, your Daemon Prince does not have either mode of movement, and so the question is moot. If, for whatever reason it was a Flying Monstrous Creature, let's take a look at the rules you have going on here: Flying Monstrous Creature (FMC) and Reserves, in relevance to your questions. 1) Your FMC begins the game in Glide mode if it starts on the board. It can change to Swoop mode at the beginning of your movement phase. 2) Your FMC, if it entered from Reserves, enters in either Glide mode or Swoop mode, your choice. 3) Reserves normally arrive from your board edge, meaning their movement is spoken for. Depending on the movement mode, your FMC may Glide into the game at 1-12", or Swoop into the game at 12-24". 4) FMC's do not by default have the Deep Strike or Outflank special rules. If they did, they would deploy by those rules instead. 5) If your FMC deploys from reserves via Deep Strike, it will enter play in either Glide or Swoop mode, whichever you decide--for the purposes of minimum movement, the FMC will have moved its minimum distance required to enter play. The book does not explicitly state this, but does explicitly state that all models that entered play via Deep Strike count as having moved; it's a safe assumption to make that minimum distances would also be part of this.
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Jul 8, 2012 07:14
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hobocrunch posted:They really should make Target Lock into the anti-flier upgrade for Tau. Since it now does nothing~ It could easily (and named aptly) be used for handling fliers since there's absolutely no way to do it effectively in the Tau Codex. Can anyone tell me the chance of 3 broadsides hitting and destroying a flier that was Zooming (say 36")? It seems insanely low. Even immobilized results are completely pointless and won't stop the hail of Bloodstrike Missiles. At least something needs to be done before they rerelease the codex. Right now, pretty much only flyers can hurt flyers, but there are rumors that a Tau flyer is showing up sooner rather than later. Your best bet is getting a fortification with an interceptor emplacement if you don't want the numerous allies with flyers.
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Jul 8, 2012 07:19
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So if I remember correctly from Helsreach the Templars looked down on the Sisters and weren't very happy about them at all. The fluff in the BT book doesn't say anything about them as far as I know so I think they just have a general distain for sisters in general. I do think that whole allies chart is loving ridiculous though and there's no reasonable explanation for most of it.
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Jul 8, 2012 07:57
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Infinite Karma posted:Right now, pretty much only flyers can hurt flyers, but there are rumors that a Tau flyer is showing up sooner rather than later. I don't want to have to use fortifications just to make the game better- and I most certainly don't want to tell my friend to not use his two Stormravens. I just feel like the way Tau is currently- it's 100% unplayable. I don't think it's really acceptable for them to just leave a race in such a hole. I'm sure other teams are experiencing this also- Pretty much anyone without anti-flier tech.
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Jul 8, 2012 08:04
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I have a bunch of Tau that I haven't played with in a long time because they just suck. But Tau is one of the only two races that can ally with everybody. An allied detachment of Necrons can get up to 4 flyers (i.e. more than you can fit in a list), if you own the models. The main problem right now is, lots of people didn't buy the expensive and underpowered flyers in 5e, and the people that do have them aren't going to see them get shot down much. If you want to field flyers, you can right now, if you are going to complain that it isn't "fluffy" to ally armies, then you'll have to suck lemons, allies are going to be here for a while.
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Jul 8, 2012 08:19
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That's not a tank, that's a bloody parade float.
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Jul 8, 2012 08:35
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kannonfodder posted:Yeah, aren't they forces of the ecclesiarchy? So ladies with a boner for the emperor charging around, and basically acting the same way as Marines do, just with more fire. This, and the Templars are probably the closest you'll come to Astartes who acknowledge the divinity of the Emperor. Most chapters revere him as the supreme leader of humanity, a wise leader, and the father of all space marines, but not as a god. BTemplars on the other hand have chapter themes and imagery soaking in faith, prayer, devoutness, and oaths. They stockpile holy relics. Chaplin Grimaldus miraculously survived having a cathedral fall on him. It makes sense that their beliefs may not 100% line up with the Ecclesiarchy's teachings, but the church should be on as-good or better terms with them than they are with space vampires, werewolves, the secret-having Dark Angles, or the want to bathe in your pure sweet lady blood Grey Knights. It's inconsistent, but I'm certainly biased as someone who owns both black-power armored space Barbies and Kens. Phyresis posted:matward retconned it so that Grey Knights are now the militant arm of the entire Inquisition gently caress that's some stupid poo poo. They should just hand over creative control to the guys at FFG already. moths fucked around with this message at 08:43 on Jul 8, 2012 |
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Jul 8, 2012 08:41
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