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The Pax Arcana series is pretty great. Where it ranks as far as Good vs not as good categories go is up to personal opinion, but I like the series a lot better than the Rivers of London books that I've read, and I never could get into the Alex Verus series. The series is a lot less annoying than The Dresden Files as well. One thing that's great about the Pax Arcana series is that the protagonist is no heavy slugger able to charge headlong against obstacle after obstacle until he reaches the climax. Being somewhat weak and fragile compared to the enemies that he faces off against, he relies on his knowledge of monster lore and his training and he wins his fights using tactics and planning over brute force. He also shares the burden of resolving the conflict with other characters instead of doing 90% of everything. Also, women aren't treated like sexualized objects or damsels to be rescued, and the major female characters (particularly the female lead/love interest) are allowed to kick rear end with the protagonist feeling secure in his masculinity. Said love interest has some emotional depth as well as a substantial amount of personal agency and motivations in the plot. The series hits an interesting tonal sweet spot where there's a realistic feeling approach to the violence, in that it is swift and brutal, but rather than making the emotional side all gritty and hopeless it sees the need to enjoy the positive aspects of life and living after the dust has cleared. The series also manages to make vast institutions of immense wealth and offensive power actually effective at resolving threats while maintaining suspense for the POV characters. Looking at you, White Council. Mars4523 fucked around with this message at 03:22 on May 23, 2017 |
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May 23, 2017 03:18
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Wheat Loaf posted:I recommend the Diogenes Club series by Kim Newman, which I like better than Anno Dracula. Do you know of anywhere the various Diogenes Club stories are collected in an easy to acquire format? Collecting Kim Newman books that aren't Annodracula outside the UK is a pain in the rear end, given how many of them are out of print or published pseudonymously.
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May 23, 2017 04:03
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If the Dresden Files is going to be the standard to which UF books are held, then the Pax Arcana should be in the "good" section, because it's honestly better than the Dresden Files in a lot of ways.
All that aside, the writing is solid. Fun, fast-paced, with good action scenes. Great chapter names. Good dialogue. I'd definitely call it the good stuff, especially if Harmony loving Black makes the cut.
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May 23, 2017 10:43
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Khizan posted:especially if Harmony loving Black makes the cut. It's bad, Jim.
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May 23, 2017 13:05
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:Do you know of anywhere the various Diogenes Club stories are collected in an easy to acquire format? Collecting Kim Newman books that aren't Annodracula outside the UK is a pain in the rear end, given how many of them are out of print or published pseudonymously. I'm very fortunate to have the three books which are out of / going out of print, but I believe there's a "Best of the Diogenes Club" book coming out later this year in mass market paperback. How comprehensive that will be I do not know, though. Amazon says it will be 400 pages, which could be a lot, but probably won't be the entire series. Some of them are up online. I know "Soho Golem", "The Serial Murders" and "Tomorrow Town" at least are available on his website. The Secrets of Drearcliff Grange School has been published as a separate novel. I've read that Professor Moriarty: The Hound of the D'Urbervilles and Angels of Music are set in the same universe but have no idea whether that's true or not.
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May 23, 2017 13:50
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I've been convinced to check out Pax Arcana. If nothing else I kind of want to see why some people swear it is awesome and others say it is horrid. Mars4523 posted:Looking at you, White Council. To be fair to the White Council, it is kind of... well. It isn't meant to actually do anything beyond govern and restrain wizards. It's working as intended when it isn't doing anything at all.
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May 23, 2017 17:16
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:I've been convinced to check out Pax Arcana. If nothing else I kind of want to see why some people swear it is awesome and others say it is horrid. I'm gonna try it again. I've hated it all three times i've tried, but this thread does push me towards books, so I'm gonna give it another go.
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May 24, 2017 02:57
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torgeaux posted:I'm gonna try it again. I've hated it all three times i've tried, but this thread does push me towards books, so I'm gonna give it another go. If you've tried it three times and put it down each time, chances are a fourth time isn't going to make a difference 
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May 24, 2017 03:14
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[quote="Ornamented Death" post="472655747"] If you've tried it three times and put it down each time, chances are a fourth time isn't going to make a difference I know, but drat, people compliment the writing, which is what I'm hating. So, once more into the breach.
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May 24, 2017 03:57
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torgeaux posted:[quote="Ornamented Death" post="472655747"] I thought the first book was good, but a little uneven, and it really gets into its stride after the first book sets things up. But this is actually true for most urban fantasy, really - it's always just a bit awkward at first getting people to buy into the supernatural stuff and the main characters, because if you take a step back and look at the actual premise of many of these books they're pretty silly and comic-book-y, but once they get their footing and you stop caring about the little things (just like comic books) they tend to become much more enjoyable. The number of UF books without at least an awkward first couple chapters if not entire first book is relatively small.
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May 24, 2017 04:16
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Wolpertinger posted:I thought the first book was good, but a little uneven, and it really gets into its stride after the first book sets things up. I really liked the first few chapters of Charming. They do an immediately effective job of establishing the mystique of the setting, sketching out a supernatural "culture", and pinning down characterization for both John (and establishing him as a Jason Bourne-esque badass, with his situational awareness and preplanning), Sig, and the rear end in a top hat vampires.
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May 24, 2017 04:43
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I know it's petty but I couldn't get into Pax Arcana because the dude is a werewolf. Werewolves are lame.
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May 24, 2017 09:17
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General Emergency posted:I know it's petty but I couldn't get into Pax Arcana because the dude is a werewolf. Werewolves are lame.     Man, there are so many crying furry pictures on GIS, heh. I have to agree, werewolves are a bit lame. I also can't be arsed at all about ~witches~ and, especially, loving faeries.
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May 24, 2017 09:51
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Megazver posted:I have to agree, werewolves are a bit lame. I also can't be arsed at all about ~witches~ and, especially, loving faeries. Or vampires. Urban fantasy that doesn't revolve around vampires, werewolves, or faeries is hard to come by.
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May 24, 2017 16:10
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To be honest if you're going to cut out magic users and three of the most popular and common magical creatures in all of fiction, yeah, you're going to end up a little thin on the ground.
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May 24, 2017 16:12
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ImpAtom posted:To be honest if you're going to cut out magic users and three of the most popular and common magical creatures in all of fiction, yeah, you're going to end up a little thin on the ground. Yeah at that point you're probably looking for magical realism and not urban fantasy.
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May 24, 2017 16:20
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ImpAtom posted:To be honest if you're going to cut out magic users and three of the most popular and common magical creatures in all of fiction, yeah, you're going to end up a little thin on the ground. I like magic. Original takes on magic systems are dope. I am bored, specifically, with YEAH WE'RE WITCHES, NEW AGE, BOO SALEM, VAGINA POWER! witches. Vampires I am willing to tolerate, if there's an interesting new take on them. Werewolves annoy me because of how often hacky writers write about bullshit, ridiculous alpha-beta pack dynamics - and you can often tell when the authoress is more or less wanking with the other hand while writing about.
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May 24, 2017 16:23
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ImpAtom posted:To be honest if you're going to cut out magic users and three of the most popular and common magical creatures in all of fiction, yeah, you're going to end up a little thin on the ground. What else is there, really? Wizards/magic, shifters, vampires, fae. Ghosts? Demons? Assorted Gods and folklore figures? People kind of expect the full-gamut, I think. It's what a lot of books are doing these days. To be fair, most shifter books suck. I think I've read one that was alright. Not a lot of interesting vampire ones, either. Both of those tend to pop up in paranormal romance, and tend to be varying shades of the growly, brooding dickhole stereotype.
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May 24, 2017 16:29
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Miéville does pretty good stuff in Kraken with uniquely urban magical beings, I think. There's also a lot of stuff if you're willing to go with more obscure mythologies and folklores, but not many authors do.
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May 24, 2017 17:39
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Megazver posted:I like magic. Original takes on magic systems are dope. I am bored, specifically, with YEAH WE'RE WITCHES, NEW AGE, BOO SALEM, VAGINA POWER! witches. The series doesn't spend that much time around werewolves, and in the setting the traditional "wolf instincts" are played way down compared to other UF. Werewolves are only a major focus in Book 2, and even then the portrayal as half wilderness retreat, half militia is kind of neat. The protagonist's own werewolf nature doesn't really direct his actions, either. Mars4523 fucked around with this message at 18:14 on May 24, 2017 |
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May 24, 2017 18:06
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Are Billy/Georgia an exception to this or do people not like them either?
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May 24, 2017 18:09
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You know what had good werewolves? Child of Fire from the Twenty Palaces series. Also, Wolf Hunt.Klungar posted:Are Billy/Georgia an exception to this or do people not like them either? To me, they're inoffensive, but also characters that I give zero fucks about.
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May 24, 2017 18:12
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Klungar posted:Are Billy/Georgia an exception to this or do people not like them either? I like them because it's not SAVAGE PACK ALPHA DOMINANCE crap like you so often see with werewolves. That is what bores me about werewolves in urban fantasy, even when they're not transparent spank bank material. Maybe I should have said I'm very tired of stereotypical vampires, werewolves, and faeries.
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May 24, 2017 18:17
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Klungar posted:Are Billy/Georgia an exception to this or do people not like them either? The Alphas are literally called the Alphas and there are multiple stories revolving around them loving, as well as Billy being buff and manly while Georgia gets kidnapped and held hostage naked on multiple occasions. They don''t get the focus but otherwise they're totally bog-standard UF werewolves.
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May 24, 2017 18:18
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Klungar posted:Are Billy/Georgia an exception to this or do people not like them either? They're all OK. They don't do a lot, they don't particularly stand out, but... I don't dislike them? Georgia manages to come across as smart. Billy is less the stereotypical hell bent for leather werewolf guy. Any failing I can level at the Alphas is more a failing of Jim's writing in general ( like, all the chicks are super hot bro, and they keep getting kidnapped ). I have this vision of a UF book where the protagonist is a lady styled after the guy from Full Throttle, who keeps having to rescue pretty ( but somewhat useless ) men while doing sick burnouts on her motorcycle. A self-aware UF where the usual gender roles were flipped around seems like it would be a fun read.
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May 24, 2017 18:49
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Twenty Palaces- one of my own favourite UF- does well with not bringing in too many urban fantasy critters, I think.
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May 24, 2017 18:52
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The thing that pisses me off most about werewolf alpha crap is that that's all based on bad science. Wolf packs don't really do that alpha male/female thing in the wild - it's typically actually a mating pair and their offspring of the past few years. Eventually, the adult pups disperse and form their own packs. The guy that came up with the term alpha wolf has since recanted and wants his old editions of his book taken out of circulation - wolves don't behave like that in the wild, and much of the idea came from jamming a bunch of unrelated adult wolves together with no opportunity to leave the pack in zoos. If you wanted to do a more realistic werewolf pack thing, it would be two parents and their kids, possibly the grandparents, with adult children leaving the pack to start their own; basically, exactly like a nuclear family. OneTwentySix fucked around with this message at 19:21 on May 24, 2017 |
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May 24, 2017 19:14
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iO9 has the first chapter of Stross' new The Laundry Files book, The Delirium Brief. It looks pretty good.
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May 24, 2017 19:34
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OneTwentySix posted:The thing that pisses me off most about werewolf alpha crap is that that's all based on bad science. Wolf packs don't really do that alpha male/female thing in the wild - it's typically actually a mating pair and their offspring of the past few years. Eventually, the adult pups disperse and form their own packs. The guy that came up with the term alpha wolf has since recanted and wants his old editions of his book taken out of circulation - wolves don't behave like that in the wild, and much of the idea came from jamming a bunch of unrelated adult wolves together with no opportunity to leave the pack in zoos. One point in Dresden's favor with the Alphas is that originally they're just a bunch of nerdy college kids who started calling themselves Alphas because they thought it sounded badass. They're only a pack in that they work together and most of them are romantically involved with another werewolf. And, mercifully, the only story where any of the Alphas boinking is a major plot point is one of the Side Jobs stories where it's played for comedy.
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May 24, 2017 20:54
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Psychic fleas are a werewolf STD
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May 24, 2017 21:21
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Cythereal posted:And, mercifully, the only story where any of the Alphas boinking is a major plot point is one of the Side Jobs stories where it's played for comedy. Yeah, this was a hilarious short story and wasn't at all played straight.
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May 24, 2017 22:09
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Cythereal posted:One point in Dresden's favor with the Alphas is that originally they're just a bunch of nerdy college kids who started calling themselves Alphas because they thought it sounded badass. They're only a pack in that they work together and most of them are romantically involved with another werewolf. Not a major plot point, but I'm pretty sure I remember Billy and Georgia going at it in the middle of the battle at Deomonreach because of all the White Vamps during Turn Coat.
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May 25, 2017 02:02
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flosofl posted:Not a major plot point, but I'm pretty sure I remember Billy and Georgia going at it in the middle of the battle at Deomonreach because of all the White Vamps during Turn Coat. That was definitely a thing, yes. The thing in Harry's Day Off was too descriptive to have been intended for laughs, frankly.
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May 25, 2017 02:38
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OneTwentySix posted:The thing that pisses me off most about werewolf alpha crap is that that's all based on bad science. Wolf packs don't really do that alpha male/female thing in the wild - it's typically actually a mating pair and their offspring of the past few years. Eventually, the adult pups disperse and form their own packs. The guy that came up with the term alpha wolf has since recanted and wants his old editions of his book taken out of circulation - wolves don't behave like that in the wild, and much of the idea came from jamming a bunch of unrelated adult wolves together with no opportunity to leave the pack in zoos. Wow, so really, that means that Terry Prachett had some of the more 'realistic' werewolves in fiction!
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May 25, 2017 02:38
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flosofl posted:Not a major plot point, but I'm pretty sure I remember Billy and Georgia going at it in the middle of the battle at Deomonreach because of all the White Vamps during Turn Coat. A minor thing semi-related thing but: My friend is pretty convinced that George and Billy going at it on Demonreach is connected to the fact that the next time we see Georgia in the (aftermath of) the next book she's pregnant as hell and will be a plot point in a future book.
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May 25, 2017 02:46
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flosofl posted:Not a major plot point, but I'm pretty sure I remember Billy and Georgia going at it in the middle of the battle at Deomonreach because of all the White Vamps during Turn Coat. ...I somehow never registered that happening in that book. Georgia just showed up pregnant in the next book and I assumed hey, she and Billy have been doing the obvious off-screen since we last saw them.
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May 25, 2017 02:49
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Azuth0667 posted:RE the most recent Alex Verus: poo poo, this was over a month ago, but replying anyway: wait, what? i didnt get that impression at all
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May 25, 2017 02:56
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Mars4523 posted:Pax Arcana has this... as an example of a horribly managed pack, run by a not particularly competent alpha bro dude who keeps on ignoring a far more competent administrator on the grounds that she is 1) female, and 2) not interested in becoming a fighter. Also he's a closeted gay man who is, paradoxically, using the alpha macho bro act to simultaneously show the guy he likes how manly he is while also trying to prove that he's too manly to be gay. Once he gets his face rubbed in the fact that he's being a gigantic dumbass and ruining everything, he gets his poo poo together and improves substantially.
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May 25, 2017 03:33
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Cythereal posted:Or vampires. Urban fantasy that doesn't revolve around vampires, werewolves, or faeries is hard to come by. http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18490594-california-bones The California Bones trilogy is pretty effing good. It's set in an alternate world post-flood Los Angeles, and stars mages that gain power by eating the bones and fossilized remains of animals and plants...and the bones of other mages. I'm reading the third book now - I think it's just a trilogy - and am having a blast. http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/429890.Snake_Agent I remember this as being fun, but it's been a long time since I've read these. A San Fransisco cop partners with a demonic detective from a Chinese Hell, and I guess they solve crimes and uncover conspiracies and stuff. I don't think this series was incredibly deep, but the setting was neat.
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May 25, 2017 06:02
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Drifter posted:http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/429890.Snake_Agent The setting was neat, I suppose, but I recall the first book being incredibly flat and dry. I did not bother with the others.
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May 25, 2017 13:09
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