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fruit on the bottom posted:How was it marketed and promoted? How it was promoted doesn't say much about the quality of a book though. A book promotion is basically either "here's a book by an author and / or about a topic you're already interested in" or it gives some hook to draw you into the story. Most of my favorite novels are stories where you can't really come up with a hook at all. Conversely most train station fiction could be pretty compelling as an elevator pitch.
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Jul 24, 2017 06:43
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Bamabalacha posted:I have an English degree and professional writer parents and this is still one of the douchiest sentences I have ever seen. I have an English degree and I'm your father and Tolkien isn't a slog at all. Some of his prose is sublime.
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Jul 24, 2017 13:23
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Tolkien rules and if you don't like his work it's because you don't "get" it. Reading LotR is like reading a medieval chanson de geste more than it is like reading a novel. lol, yeah, the fact that it is a subpar imitation of authentic archaic literary forms makes it BETTER, and definitely not a waste of time that could be better spent familiarizing yourself with the works Tolkien was copying
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Jul 24, 2017 13:26
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sassassin posted:I have an English degree and I'm your father and Tolkien isn't a slog at all. Some of his prose is sublime. "You are a wizard, Frodo"
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Jul 24, 2017 13:26
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steinrokkan posted:"You are a wizard, Frodo" haha I love memes.
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Jul 24, 2017 13:47
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steinrokkan posted:lol, yeah, the fact that it is a subpar imitation of authentic archaic literary forms makes it BETTER, and definitely not a waste of time that could be better spent familiarizing yourself with the works Tolkien was copying The point of fantasy fiction is enjoyment, not enlightenment, and Tolkien was way better at that than his antecedents.
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Jul 24, 2017 14:31
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Mu Zeta posted:Chris Nolan needs to dump Hans Zimmer. Interstellar, Dunkirk, and Inception have obnoxiously loud music blaring all the loving time telling you how you're supposed to feel just in case you're too dumb to understand what's happening on the screen. Just shut the gently caress up or quiet down the music for a bit and let me listen to the sound of boats exploding in peace. Nolan is just kind of a hack in general, and yeah Zimmer is the most over rated composer working right now.
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Jul 24, 2017 18:23
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The_Rob posted:Nolan is just kind of a hack in general, and yeah Zimmer is the most over rated composer working right now. Has there ever been a wildly successful director/producer that hasn't been called a hack by the internet? "I don't like them" doesn't make them a hack. It's the same thing with "overrated". You can just say you don't like them, you don't have to say everyone who likes them is wrong at the same time.
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Jul 24, 2017 18:34
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yeah I eat rear end posted:Has there ever been a wildly successful director/producer that hasn't been called a hack by the internet? "I don't like them" doesn't make them a hack. Nolan is a hack who can't make a good third act to save his life. The quote I've heard about Nolan that I like the most is that he is Micheal Bay for people who have read one book in their life.
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Jul 24, 2017 18:42
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The_Rob posted:Nolan is a hack who can't make a good third act to save his life. The quote I've heard about Nolan that I like the most is that he is Micheal Bay for people who have read one book in their life. Yes, The Prestige and Transformers, two easily comparable works.
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Jul 24, 2017 18:43
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yeah I eat rear end posted:Has there ever been a wildly successful director/producer that hasn't been called a hack by the internet? "I don't like them" doesn't make them a hack. I think even people who don't like Tarantino will admit that he's good at making movies
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Jul 24, 2017 18:43
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Guy Goodbody posted:I think even people who don't like Tarantino will admit that he's good at making movies Yeah, like I really don't like "Tarantino dialog" for the most part but he does what he does well, he's skilled and good at what he sets out to do. Other people create movies that I don't personally enjoy, plus they are bad at making movies, hacks.
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Jul 24, 2017 18:45
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WampaLord posted:Yes, The Prestige and Transformers, two easily comparable works. The illusionist was the superior magician movie of 2006.
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Jul 24, 2017 18:46
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The_Rob posted:Nolan is a hack who can't make a good third act to save his life. The quote I've heard about Nolan that I like the most is that he is Micheal Bay for people who have read one book in their life. I don't really have an opinion on Nolan but I always hear the "he's a hack" thing about Ridley Scott and I just can't see how you can think that if you look at things objectively.
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Jul 24, 2017 18:49
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yeah I eat rear end posted:I don't really have an opinion on Nolan but I always hear the "he's a hack" thing about Ridley Scott and I just can't see how you can think that if you look at things objectively. I used to subscribe to Ridley being a hack but I've gone back through his filmography and realized that he is a very ambitious filmmaker even if not everything he makes clicks. He's always willing to try something interesting without making it into a gimmick, and as far as I am concerned he can coast off of the Duelists, Blade Runner, and Alien for the rest of time. I'm also one of the few people who loved the counselor for it being one of the most nihilistic anti capitalist films in a long time.
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Jul 24, 2017 18:51
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The_Rob posted:The illusionist was the superior magician movie of 2006. Well, you're definitely in the right thread for that opinion! 
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Jul 24, 2017 18:51
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James Cameron is truly a hack too.
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Jul 24, 2017 18:55
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pidan posted:How it was promoted doesn't say much about the quality of a book though. A book promotion is basically either "here's a book by an author and / or about a topic you're already interested in" or it gives some hook to draw you into the story. Right, but I think it impacts how we should look at those sales figures. They were decent for a first time nobody without a huge marketing push, and abysmal for a JK Rowling with full fanfare. We know the book was made under a pseudonym, but if it wasn't really marketed strongly then the sales figures aren't really that bad.
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Jul 24, 2017 18:59
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fruit on the bottom posted:Right, but I think it impacts how we should look at those sales figures. They were decent for a first time nobody without a huge marketing push, and abysmal for a JK Rowling with full fanfare. This entire conversation is because of Tiggum's lack of understanding that "didn't sell at all" was a bit of hyperbole to mean "Didn't sell as well as a book written by J.K. Rowling should sell." Then Tiggum posts that the book sold 8,500 copies to be all  "Looks like it sold fine!" missing the point entirely.
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Jul 24, 2017 19:02
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WampaLord posted:Tiggum's lack of understanding This is pretty much the main driver of this thread. When there's a lull tiggum will bust in and express bewilderment at some basic human concept or fail to understand that things work different in the rest of the world than they do in australia and people will try and find out whether he's just trolling or if he's being genuine.
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Jul 24, 2017 19:05
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WampaLord posted:This entire conversation is because of Tiggum's lack of understanding that "didn't sell at all" was a bit of hyperbole to mean "Didn't sell as well as a book written by J.K. Rowling should sell." I'm all for dunking on Tiggum, but it's also pretty dumb to compare sales figures other books by JK Rowling when the major difference is that it didn't actually have her name on it. Maybe we should talk about something else,'like eugenics or something.
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Jul 24, 2017 19:22
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Tiggum is basically an Australian Forrest Gump without the heroism and who should have the mental capacity to know better
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Jul 24, 2017 19:25
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fruit on the bottom posted:Maybe we should talk about something else,'like eugenics or something. Come on, summoning jastiger into a thread is just cruel.
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Jul 24, 2017 19:26
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James Cameron is like the only guy in Hollywood who could theoretically singlehandedly make a movie from screenplay to post-production.
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Jul 24, 2017 19:36
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I'll always respect james cameron because I have watched Titanic at least 30 times and will never get tired of watching it again and again.
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Jul 24, 2017 19:38
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fruit on the bottom posted:I'm all for dunking on Tiggum, but it's also pretty dumb to compare sales figures other books by JK Rowling when the major difference is that it didn't actually have her name on it. The book barely got into Top 500, and it's not like the publishers didn't know whose product were selling and didn't give it enough of a chance. it was a commercial failure until she went into the pls buy my book mode.
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Jul 24, 2017 19:39
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Well I guess that's true. The publishers probably would have been pushing it harder than they would a true unknown.
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Jul 24, 2017 19:41
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steinrokkan posted:James Cameron is like the only guy in Hollywood who could theoretically singlehandedly make a movie from screenplay to post-production. That to me is what makes him a total hack.
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Jul 24, 2017 19:43
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steinrokkan posted:James Cameron is like the only guy in Hollywood who could theoretically singlehandedly make a movie from screenplay to post-production. George Lucas did this too, with Red Tails.
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Jul 24, 2017 19:44
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WampaLord posted:George Lucas did this too, with Red Tails. You just loving keep hitting it out of the park Lucas!!!
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Jul 24, 2017 19:49
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WampaLord posted:George Lucas did this too, with Red Tails. Same but Tommy Wisaeu's The Room
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Jul 24, 2017 19:49
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re: jk rowling you can be good independent of other factors, at least in so far as you can claim anything is good so long as it's along the lines of some merit, but simply being popular requires some kind of perfect storm of outside events that might not even include the sheer quality of the work so i personally think it's pointless to try and gauge a work's quality by squinting at its overall popularity, like i think we can agree that there's a major disparity in the considerable popularity of Bay's films versus their overall quality; in a related vein stephen king once released some books under the name richard bachman partly as a way of splitting his brand, and partly to settle the question of talent vs perfect storm/luck in the world of writing and he never felt like found an answer to the question since he also saw the bachman books do reasonably well with as little marketing as possible but they didn't really take off until his pseudonym was discovered rather early into their publication history personally of the HP books, i've only read 2 of them before i realized that i (unpopularly) didn't like them and then dropped the series, i had no problem with rowling's writing - imho she definitely seems competent at her craft - or her plot structure or anything like that, i just didn't care for the actual content, i can at least say that they aren't an appropriate thing for a grown-rear end man to read so i think i might've missed the window in my life where i might've enjoyed them
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Jul 24, 2017 19:56
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yeah I eat rear end posted:Come on, summoning jastiger into a thread is just cruel. Jastiger is always here, ensuring that the opinions itt are within a certain margin of error. You're good...for now....
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Jul 24, 2017 20:18
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steinrokkan posted:James Cameron is like the only guy in Hollywood who could theoretically singlehandedly make a movie from screenplay to post-production. Doesn't mean they are good movies.
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Jul 24, 2017 21:46
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In fact if everyone is agreeing to give you money with no pushback you're probably making something mediocre.
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Jul 24, 2017 21:57
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I feel uncomfrotable calling them HACKS, like..they have no idea what they are doing or something. Everyone mentioned up there has had movies I've enjoyed and some I didn't.
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Jul 24, 2017 21:59
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I read a funny article talking about why the hell Disney spent half a billion dollars making an Avatar themed park at Disneyland when the films have almost zero cultural cachet. But of course the attendance has been absolutely packed and the Avatar toys that cost like $100 to buy there are always sold out. There will be future generations talking about how Avatar changed their life.
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Jul 24, 2017 22:01
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Jastiger posted:I feel uncomfrotable calling them HACKS, like..they have no idea what they are doing or something. Everyone mentioned up there has had movies I've enjoyed and some I didn't. To me, a hack is someone who can't do more than one kind of thing. Like, District 9 is a great movie, but the director is a hack because he made 2 other movies that are basically the exact same movie. Michael Bay is a hack for similar reasons.
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Jul 24, 2017 22:07
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We Know Catheters posted:Doesn't mean they are good movies. lol sure aliens terminator terminator 2 titanic TOTAL JUNK
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Jul 24, 2017 22:28
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You know this guy who literally designed his own cameras and mechanical set pieces to achieve very specific previously impossible effects? A hack!
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Jul 24, 2017 22:29
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