Early FPS Megathread: the kids need to learn about TekWar sooner or later

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Retro Games > Early FPS Megathread: the kids need to learn about TekWar sooner or later

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site: Apr 6, 2007; Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

Tim Thomas posted:

not to get in the way of the sw2 posting, but i have a confession to make

for as good as doom ][ is, the pistol and chaingun are lovely weapons that don't feel good to use at all

i grew to appreciate the chaingun once i started playing more slaughtery maps that use hoards of zombieman types because it really shines in those kinda of situations, but base doom 2 doesnt lean on those too much it feels like

# ? Feb 20, 2020 01:26

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# ? May 30, 2024 19:05

JerryLee: Feb 4, 2005; THE RESERVED LIST! THE RESERVED LIST! I CANNOT SHUT UP ABOUT THE RESERVED LIST!

Chaingun feels fine-- satisfying, even-- when you're using it to mow through former humans or imps, or when you're using it to pin down any of the flying enemies. Obviously don't use it (or, if you're a mapper, don't make your players use it) against heavies.

vv I meant heavy as in heavy enemies generally, not heavy weapon dudes, which I was actually counting under former humans :v:

JerryLee fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Feb 20, 2020

# ? Feb 20, 2020 01:27

al-azad: May 28, 2009

I find the chain gun is my best friend against heavies in Plutonia. The rear end in a top hat designer loves putting hitscanners far enough above the horizon out of auto-aim for most weapons but like 1-in-4 chain gun shots will magically hit if you jiggle around.

# ? Feb 20, 2020 01:54

Plan Z: May 6, 2012

JerryLee posted:

Chaingun feels fine-- satisfying, even-- when you're using it to mow through former humans or imps, or when you're using it to pin down any of the flying enemies. Obviously don't use it (or, if you're a mapper, don't make your players use it) against heavies.

This kinda goes for the shotgun to an extent, too. There's nothing more boring to me in a Doom level than being forced to kill a Baron with the shotgun.

# ? Feb 20, 2020 02:08

site: Apr 6, 2007; Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

i too find doom 1 gameplay boring

# ? Feb 20, 2020 02:47

Max Wilco: Jan 23, 2012; I'm just trying to go through life without looking stupid.

It's not working out too well...

Shadow Warrior 2013 had some funny lines, but the shooting/combat felt really off and not very satisfying.

Shadow Warrior 2 I haven't finished yet (picked it up again a couple months back, but dropped it again), but the combat I thought was better (though it's been so long since I played SW '13, I can't be sure). Storywise, it feels like there was some sort of interquel that you were supposed to have read/played to have context of what happened between the two games. Part of my issue might be that I spend less time playing the game, and more time using the in-game photography mode to take pictures of the environments.

Honestly, my favorite is still Shadow Warrior '97, if only because I like Build engine level design.

# ? Feb 20, 2020 03:04

Crowetron: Apr 29, 2009

They didn't make the guns better in SW2, they just made the swords worse. Its a lazy way to make things feel more balanced, but it worked, I guess.

# ? Feb 20, 2020 03:10

Johnny Joestar: Oct 21, 2010; Don't shoot him?

...
...

Crowetron posted:

They didn't make the guns better in SW2,

they...did, though? they really, absolutely did. i don't know what backwards-rear end planet someone has to be from to honestly go from the first game where only a couple guns felt okay against the massive damage sponge enemies, and mostly after lots of upgrades, to the sequel where most of the massive arsenal feels actually balanced well and nice to use. all you have to do is slap on whatever the highest bonus gem thing you have onto a gun and it'll immediately perform better than basically anything in shadow warrior 2013.

# ? Feb 20, 2020 03:23

Cream-of-Plenty: Apr 21, 2010; "The world is a hellish place, and bad writing is destroying the quality of our suffering."

Johnny Joestar posted:

they...did, though? they really, absolutely did. i don't know what backwards-rear end planet someone has to be from to honestly go from the first game where only a couple guns felt okay against the massive damage sponge enemies, and mostly after lots of upgrades, to the sequel where most of the massive arsenal feels actually balanced well and nice to use. all you have to do is slap on whatever the highest bonus gem thing you have onto a gun and it'll immediately perform better than basically anything in shadow warrior 2013.

Yeah I have no idea what they�re talking about, the gunplay is way better in 2 and the cutting and slicing feels about the same, which is to say it�s still good.

# ? Feb 20, 2020 03:39

SCheeseman: Apr 23, 2003

I think I finally figured out my main beef with Doom 3. It's not that it's too dark or slow or boring, it's because the demons aren't cute enough. Such ugly rear end cacodemons.

# ? Feb 20, 2020 03:45

Crowetron: Apr 29, 2009

The shooting SW2 felt pretty much the same as 1 to me :shrug:

Sure, you could slot in gems for status effects or damage boosts like Diablo, but blasting monsters a shotgun in one game didn't feel significantly different from doing it in the other game. The dodge and sprint mechanics also felt largely the same, except that you could fall from greater distances safely which was very good.

The melee weapons all felt weaker in 2. The moves are all the same, but the useless RPG mechanics resulted in some number fuckery that made it feel like it took more stabs to drop a goblin than it did before.

Obviously, this can be mitigated by the gems, but that's its own problem.

Nightmare Reaper is an early access game with procgen levels, and its still the only genuinely fun looter shooter out there.

# ? Feb 20, 2020 03:55

SCheeseman: Apr 23, 2003

# ? Feb 20, 2020 04:19

Crowetron: Apr 29, 2009

Doom 3's Pinky is kinda cute, in a naked mole rat sorta way.

# ? Feb 20, 2020 04:28

Pyrolocutus: Feb 5, 2005; Shape of Flame

The chaingun is also my go-to for solo Mancubi and Arachnotrons because it kicks them into pain state fairly consistently and lets me save shells/rockets for dicier situations.

# ? Feb 20, 2020 06:01

90s Cringe Rock: Nov 29, 2006

SCheeseman posted:

I think I finally figured out my main beef with Doom 3. It's not that it's too dark or slow or boring, it's because the demons aren't cute enough. Such ugly rear end cacodemons.

# ? Feb 20, 2020 08:26

Guillermus: Dec 28, 2009

My biggest issue with Doom 3 is the loving shotgun. In vanilla D3 I modded it just to not have awful spread and it did good damage but can't do the same with BFG edition.

I still have my duct tape mod that changed a few values like the pistol having a slightly faster RoF, less shotgun spread, reloads one shell at a time but has 10 instead of 8 and for RoE the super shotgun only had better spread.

# ? Feb 20, 2020 10:40

al-azad: May 28, 2009

The assault rifle is just too good of a gun in Doom 3 and there�s basically infinite ammo until the plasma rifle shows up then you just use that for the rest of the game.

# ? Feb 20, 2020 10:56

Convex: Aug 19, 2010

Guillermus posted:

My biggest issue with Doom 3 is the loving shotgun. In vanilla D3 I modded it just to not have awful spread and it did good damage but can't do the same with BFG edition.

I still have my duct tape mod that changed a few values like the pistol having a slightly faster RoF, less shotgun spread, reloads one shell at a time but has 10 instead of 8 and for RoE the super shotgun only had better spread.

Could you share a copy of this please?

# ? Feb 20, 2020 10:59

Guillermus: Dec 28, 2009

Convex posted:

Could you share a copy of this please?

I have it saved on my external, I'll give it a look when I get home and put it on mediafire or mega.

What I'm sure is that i made a single rar with trent sounds, the better heads mod and my duct tape one, need to check it out.

# ? Feb 20, 2020 11:10

Convex: Aug 19, 2010

Guillermus posted:

I have it saved on my external, I'll give it a look when I get home and put it on mediafire or mega.

What I'm sure is that i made a single rar with trent sounds, the better heads mod and my duct tape one, need to check it out.

That would be great, thanks!

# ? Feb 20, 2020 11:11

Al Cu Ad Solte: Nov 30, 2005; Searching for
a righteous cause

Last time I played through Doom 3 I had a mod setup that used Trent's sounds, a few of my own custom sounds, a tweak that reduced the spread of the shotgun, and a final mod that changed the shotgun's butt loving ugly retail model to the one from the 2002 alpha version, which is great. If I still had my mod setup I'd post it but it's long gone now.

I was thinking of playing through Doom 3 again soon so I might recreate it, if I do I'll post it. You can find the alpha shotgun mod on moddb at least, I really can't recommend it enough. The retail model is so ugly...

# ? Feb 20, 2020 11:17

drrockso20: May 6, 2013; Has Not Actually Done Cocaine

Looking up Sandy Petersen on Wikipedia and it's honestly amazing how widespread of an influence he is in the world of gaming even beyond his contributions to the Doom and Quake series, among other things being the primary designer of the Call of Cthulhu tabletop RPG over at Chaosium

Of course now bringing up Chaosium makes me think a Doom(or Heretic or Hexen) mod based on RuneQuest could be pretty neat(it's honestly a shame that Glorantha doesn't have more of a presence in the world of video games)

# ? Feb 20, 2020 11:17

Rupert Buttermilk: Apr 15, 2007; 🚣RowboatMan: ❄️Freezing time🕰️ is an old P.I. 🥧trick...

I want Borderlands 2 on Switch.

It's me; I'm the guy who wants that :negative:

# ? Feb 20, 2020 12:46

Guillermus: Dec 28, 2009

I'm going to top that.

I preordered the physical copy of Ion Fury for PS4 that comes out in May for 20 eurobucks.

I was thinking about how they should release Dusk and Amid Evil on PS4 and then I did that... :negative:

# ? Feb 20, 2020 12:55

THE BAR: Oct 20, 2011; You know what might look better on your nose?

skasion posted:

The Doom pistol is pretty much just a placeholder for the chain gun. As for the chain gun...it�s not got impressive feel but it does a job.

Meanwhile, the Wolfenstein chaingun is trying to kill you through your speakers.

And you'll let it with a smile on your face.

# ? Feb 20, 2020 14:08

Wild T: Dec 15, 2008; The point I'm trying to make is that the only way to come out on top is to kick the Air Force in the nuts, beart it savagely with a weight and take a dump on it's face.

al-azad posted:

The assault rifle is just too good of a gun in Doom 3 and there�s basically infinite ammo until the plasma rifle shows up then you just use that for the rest of the game.

Which wouldn't be a problem if it sounded meaty, but the Doom 3 SMG sounds like someone dropping dried beans into a tin can. The shotgun, too, sounds wimpy. The chaingun, plasma gun and especially the rocket launcher all sound great though.

# ? Feb 20, 2020 15:02

haveblue: Aug 15, 2005; Toilet Rascal

Available ammo was increased in the BFG Edition for no obvious reason, in the original you were more constrained more often.

# ? Feb 20, 2020 15:24

chaosapiant: Oct 10, 2012; White Line Fever

I don't mind the shotgun in Doom 3, except for the sound. But since most of Doom 3 is very close quarters and I tend to get into monster's faces anyway, the spread was never an issue.

# ? Feb 20, 2020 15:34

Serephina: Nov 8, 2005; 恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー

Tim Thomas posted:

not to get in the way of the sw2 posting, but i have a confession to make

for as good as doom ][ is, the pistol and chaingun are lovely weapons that don't feel good to use at all

The DOOM pistol is widely regarded as a "Don't do this" learning moment - Can't do everything right the first time around! More modern games have learnt that the starting weapon is allowed to suck, but it can still be fun. RAGE even did a thing where by crafting exotic ammo, the starting pistol was able to keep up with the big guns, if you really really want pistol play over other weapons types.

Doom 3 had all the potential to be a solid fun game (for its time), but there's small fatal screwups everywhere. The first release was too dark, and the BFG edition's ammo deulge ruins everything. They BOTH suffer from loving around with the amour formula, which is fine in Multiplayer mode but in single player it absorbs like 1/4 the dmg so you're always running about with full armour and no hp with armour packs everywhere taunting you. Difficulty modes only increases dmg taken, OF COURSE. I like Doom3's vibe, but playing ruined games to try and see 'what might have been' is not what I'd recommend for others.

# ? Feb 20, 2020 15:39

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

I wouldn't call Doom 3 ruined (well, maybe the BFG edition). It's a good game, it's just not as great as the others in the series.

# ? Feb 20, 2020 15:44

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

Honestly use a better sound effect for the pistol/chaingun and it improves it dramatically. The popgun sound effect doesn�t do them any favors.

# ? Feb 20, 2020 15:44

ETPC: Jul 10, 2008; Wheel with it.

doom 3 was fine. its fine.

fine. fine out of 10.

its fine.

# ? Feb 20, 2020 15:46

al-azad: May 28, 2009

haveblue posted:

Available ammo was increased in the BFG Edition for no obvious reason, in the original you were more constrained more often.

I played the original and ammo still isn�t an issue except the minigun. Apparently I had a mod installed for the super shotgun and I was still strapped.

# ? Feb 20, 2020 15:56

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

david_a posted:

Honestly use a better sound effect for the pistol/chaingun and it improves it dramatically. The popgun sound effect doesn�t do them any favors.

The engine contains code suggesting that they had considered separate DSPISTOL and DSCHGUN sound effects but ended up making DSCHGUN a pointer to DSPISTOL (booo). Doom 4 Vanilla is one vanilla mod I recall that used Dehacked to override this and it certainly makes the chaingun more fun to use.

# ? Feb 20, 2020 15:59

al-azad: May 28, 2009

Dead Space, the �real� Doom 3, had the opposite problem where the starter gun is just too drat good. And for whatever reason Opposing Force gives you a false sense of power by starting you off with a deagle.

al-azad fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Feb 20, 2020

# ? Feb 20, 2020 16:02

GUI: Nov 5, 2005

Doom 3's difficulty levels do increase/decrease enemy spawns. They're just so minor most people won't notice.

# ? Feb 20, 2020 16:05

drrockso20: May 6, 2013; Has Not Actually Done Cocaine

al-azad posted:

Dead Space, the ‘tea’ Doom 3, had the opposite problem where the starter gun is just too drat good. And for whatever reason Opposing Force gives you a false sense of power by starting you off with a deagle.

Probably for much the same reason Shadow Warrior 2013 makes the Katana so strong, they had a dismemberment system that they wanted to show off right from the beginning

# ? Feb 20, 2020 18:09

Rupert Buttermilk: Apr 15, 2007; 🚣RowboatMan: ❄️Freezing time🕰️ is an old P.I. 🥧trick...

If the Doom pistol had either infinite ammo or more stopping power, that'd go a long way to improve it.

Plus better sound.

# ? Feb 20, 2020 18:30

Guillermus: Dec 28, 2009

Convex posted:

That would be great, thanks!

https://mega.nz/#!2h5yFA4D!gqr8RVy5cnGs5BtkCo-TVrCphbmtyj3jFm78z5NScs4 (my ductape and weapon mod)

Here's the link for my mod. I quick looked it and seems that I tuned the weapons a bit more than I remember because after the first playthrough with just a ductape mod, I wanted to play on the hardest difficulty with weapons more "in line" with older id tittles so you may find that the chaingun has 99 bullets now and the pistol shoots faster and has a 20 round mag... :q:

It's actually pretty easy to change that stuff, my advice is that you take the pak666.pk4 and extract the content in a folder, then compare with the same exact files from your doom 3 and tune up/down weapon values at your will. It's far simpler than you may think but definately try it, if you don't like something just change values and remember that you need to restart the actual level you are in after changing something.

My selection of mods packed into one:
https://mega.nz/#!6hpQQYwZ!LiVPDVoUPqfTkfJtJ4U27lPkbHUz5ahhwG8NGW0m2WY

This includes the following files:

code:

pak666.pk4 my ductape/weapon value mod
pak667.pk4 Trent Reznor sounds (a must have in my opinion)
pak668.pk4 improved head models, a mod I found years ago that makes heads and fists rounder as they should be.
pakabc.pk4 a PDA entry that gives you the code of all cabinets so you don't have to hear the loving audio for the 21932845732948273 time
pak_Parallax.pk4 a small mod to add some parallax mapping effect to add some depth to textures, small but cool to have

This may look weird on the imp but trust me, NPC heads look way better.

# ? Feb 20, 2020 18:37

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# ? May 30, 2024 19:05

John Murdoch: May 19, 2009; I can tune a fish.

Does Doom 3 have hit stun/pain chance of any kind?

Honestly how many shooters period have some form of it?

I will never stop harping on about how that mechanic alone does so much for Doom's combat.

# ? Feb 20, 2020 18:38

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