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Dr.Zeppelin posted:How have the Democrats not figured out yet that David Broder's ghost doesn't personally command several dozen electoral votes by itself? Every national Democrat is going to be cast as a radical hippie moonbeam socialist no matter what their actual policies are so why not push for the thing that has a large and growing amount of public support? In the event that Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan, and Iowa fall away, they may need the votes of the elderly in FL more than ever. Also Virginia.
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Jun 19, 2014 03:46
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Coming out in favour of federal marijuana reclassification would also endanger the purple state Congressman and Senators Hillary would need to pass legislation that could actually, you know, pass.
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Jun 19, 2014 05:27
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DynamicSloth posted:Coming out in favour of federal marijuana reclassification would also endanger the purple state Congressman and Senators Hillary would need to pass legislation that could actually, you know, pass. That's realllly speculative and doubtful. Most purple states are polling near 50% for straight up legalization, I highly doubt marijuana classification would even blip on the radar. Republicans simply don't give enough of a gently caress about it for it to drive them to the polls and moderates support reclassification or legalization, so you are only alienating people that won't vote for you anyway. Ignoring that, you don't actually need congress to reclassify drugs. e: never mind purple, medical marijuana polls above 50% in red states, in most purple states it's closer to 70% . enbot fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Jun 19, 2014 |
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Jun 19, 2014 06:05
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Hillary already laid it out, she's absolutely allergic to candor. She can't be candid even when there's no reason not to be; even when to do so would be a benefit. Can you imagine, Dank Hillary? Talk about youth turnout revolutionizing the down ticket. But noh. Literally noh; not even political kabuki, political noh.
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Jun 19, 2014 06:32
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I think there is definitely room for a candidate to appear to the left of Hillary, since she's a hawk, doesn't say anything remotely controversial (appealing) ever, likely continues to have enemies among high-level party operatives, and follows the "be predictably centrist about everything" strategy that doesn't really work. When she was put on her back foot in 2008, her campaign looked increasingly desperate and flailing. "Oh you read books by John McCain? I'm loving energized for this campaign season," said no one ever. If we're really going to have another Democrat candidate attempt to appeal to the near-mythical independent 5% at the expense of everyone actually looking for a reason to vote for a Democrat, she could easily defy demographic trends and get out-maneuvered by a Republican. People aren't looking for someone whose position on every issue is "coldly pragmatic."
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Jun 19, 2014 07:29
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In 2016 there is no God of Campaigning to put her on her back foot.
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Jun 19, 2014 07:30
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SedanChair posted:In 2016 there is no God of Campaigning to put her on her back foot. I have yet to hear of another Democrat who has a snowball's chance in hell of swiping the nomination crown away from Hillary like Obama did in 2008.
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Jun 19, 2014 08:05
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SedanChair posted:In 2016 there is no God of Campaigning to put her on her back foot. Obama as Brilliant Campaigner is as much propaganda as anything else, especially early on. He tacked to the left of Hillary, which wasn't hard at all, had establishment backing, and got a front-row seat to Clinton's really poorly-run campaign courtesy of lovely Planet Clinton advisors who had her blowing lots of resources on mathematically sub-optimal contests. She ran a horrible campaign. It may well be that no one else attracts the support of influential allies this time around, but if they do this is far from over. The 2008 campaign was also considered a Hillary coronation.
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Jun 19, 2014 08:37
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Obama as Brilliant Campaigner is as much propaganda as anything else, especially early on. I'm assuming SedanChair is talking about his unparalleled ability to move a crowd, which was in evidence before he even entered the Presidential race.
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Jun 19, 2014 08:43
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One of the rare calls I've gotten right on Presidential politics was Obama in 2004. Longshot, obviously, but anyone who downplays his charisma and campaigning ability is having a loving go, heh. Of course it would've been impossible to predict the acumen of his political advisors and their ability to chart a course to the navigation that far in advance, but the guy obviously had the material. Unfortunately, he's been a pretty middling President as things go. Okay, make excuses for his domestic politics and blame Congress, but the same guy is hell-bent on prosecuting NSA leakers, approving drone strikes all over the Middle East and Indian Subcontinent and so on. Still, brilliant campaigner. What's really being discussed here isn't Hillary being disingenuous - every Presidential politician is that. Obama's been on every side of any number of issues. As well, because of the length of her public life, she is almost required to be more disingenuous. Her problem is her total inability to sell it while she does it, full stop. I'm not really sure that matters substantively, but she's in politics and politicians have to be good at that stuff. She's always been a pretty mediocre politician when it comes to public politics, frankly. Yeah, blame all the misogyny and the persecution of the Clintons and everything else, but people loved Ann Richards with her vagina and all, while Bill Clinton still has it too. Hillary seems much more effective politically in-office. She seems to be genuinely liked by people who work with her politically.
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Jun 19, 2014 08:52
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Obama as Brilliant Campaigner is as much propaganda as anything else, especially early on. He tacked to the left of Hillary, which wasn't hard at all, had establishment backing, and got a front-row seat to Clinton's really poorly-run campaign courtesy of lovely Planet Clinton advisors who had her blowing lots of resources on mathematically sub-optimal contests. She ran a horrible campaign. Obama is far more of a brilliant campaigner and possessing of a raw charisma that outshone all others than there is any truth in the idea that 2008 was ever considered a Hillary coronation by anyone with more sense than Dick Morris, paying even the slightest bit of attention to the fundraising numbers would have told you that. enbot posted:e: never mind purple, medical marijuana polls above 50% in red states, in most purple states it's closer to 70% . If this is true those states will legalize pot, but it's not getting legalized federally until it's been legalized in many, many more states than will be possible before 2016.
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Jun 19, 2014 13:25
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Dr.Zeppelin posted:How have the Democrats not figured out yet that David Broder's ghost doesn't personally command several dozen electoral votes by itself? Every national Democrat is going to be cast as a radical hippie moonbeam socialist no matter what their actual policies are so why not push for the thing that has a large and growing amount of public support? Because contrary to popular belief there do exist people who are undecided and may be turned off by these policies.
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Jun 19, 2014 13:27
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Brian Schweitzer has some opinions.The Former Governor of Montana posted:This was the week that Sen. Dianne Feinstein took to the Senate floor to accuse the CIA of spying on congressional staffers investigating the agency's treatment of terrorism suspects under the Bush administration. Schweitzer is incredulous that Feinstein—considered by her critics to be too close to the intelligence community—was now criticizing the agency. "She was the woman who was standing under the streetlight with her dress pulled all the way up over her knees, and now she says, 'I'm a nun,' when it comes to this spying!" he says. Then, he adds, quickly, "I mean, maybe that's the wrong metaphor—but she was all in!"
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Jun 19, 2014 13:31
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Maybe we've been thinking about this all wrong. Perhaps Schweitzer's strategy is to out-Biden Joe Biden.
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Jun 19, 2014 13:37
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Brian Schweitzer could probably use a little less candor sometimes in addition to the Feinstein and Cantor bits On Afghanistan: quote:"If it all goes to hell in a handbasket, that's fine," he told Slate's Dave Weigel earlier this year. "That happened after Alexander the Great left; that happened after the Russians left. Who cares? They live in the Stone Age." Other countries: quote:"Simply stated, we have liberties in this country that no other people on the planet have, individual liberties."
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Jun 19, 2014 13:40
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Obama as Brilliant Campaigner is as much propaganda as anything else, especially early on. He tacked to the left of Hillary, which wasn't hard at all, had establishment backing, and got a front-row seat to Clinton's really poorly-run campaign courtesy of lovely Planet Clinton advisors who had her blowing lots of resources on mathematically sub-optimal contests. She ran a horrible campaign. Not to mention Obama's real silver bullets, media support and stupid children. Like ReindeerF ,I called Obama back in 04, with the big caveat that he might not have pulled the trigger on a presidential run. When he did I always regarded him, in my mind, as the front-runner even through the winter/spring of 07 when Hillary was leading everywhere. The simple fact is that Hillary's endorsements, like almost all political endorsements, meant nothing, her fundraising meant nothing and her nationwide lead meant nothing. Fundraising in a modern presidential campaign doesn't matter in my eye provided you at least get enough to go on the air. Whatever adds you run are a drop in the name-rec bucket compared to the millions of news stories coming out of every device during a campaign. The nationwide lead was simply because people in non-IA/NH states don't tune in that early and honestly does anyone even care about endorsements for races where the audience actually knows the candidates? I mean for city council or whatever its important because who the hell knows their city council choices but this is president, people are paying attention. Cliff Racer fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Jun 19, 2014 |
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Jun 19, 2014 13:48
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ReindeerF posted:people loved Ann Richards with her vagina and all, while Bill Clinton still has it too. Ann Richards' vagina?
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Jun 19, 2014 13:54
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computer parts posted:Because contrary to popular belief there do exist people who are undecided and may be turned off by these policies. Which is why almost universally politicians are followers on social issues, not leaders. Getting out ahead of public opinion only costs votes in the short term. Long term, if an issue fails to gain the majority of popular support it can end a political career, dooming the candidate to being a one-issue crackpot, while there are few benefits for being able to say "I told you so!"
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Jun 19, 2014 14:01
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skaboomizzy posted:Brian Schweitzer has some opinions. Oh man. Schweitzer/Biden '16 for maximum comedy potential (or lulz, if you prefer).
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Jun 19, 2014 14:37
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Schweitzer we hardly knew ye.
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Jun 19, 2014 14:41
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"All southerner men are gay," said a person ostensibly running for the Democratic candidadcy to be president.
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Jun 19, 2014 16:08
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Schweitzer's always been a loving clown, I remember seeing his fat face on Bill Maher. e: It's funny to read that journalist talk about his enthusiasm for hunting rifles as though that were somehow poison in a national race though, talk about team-minded blindness
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Jun 19, 2014 16:16
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Berke Negri posted:"All southerner men are gay," said a person ostensibly running for the Democratic candidadcy to be president. Hey, he said not to hold it against him, okay But seriously, though, what the hell was Schweitzer thinking. I mean, there's being a straight shooter, and then there's just being a goddamned idiot.
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Jun 19, 2014 16:40
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SedanChair posted:Schweitzer's always been a loving clown, I remember seeing his fat face on Bill Maher. Wait, do liberals even have a problem with hunting rifles? I thought that was like the one type of gun that everyone was pretty much okay with?
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Jun 19, 2014 16:43
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DaveWoo posted:Hey, he said not to hold it against him, okay I'm not sure if this is worse: Schweitzer on Feinstein posted:She was the woman who was standing under the streetlight with her dress pulled all the way up over her knees, and now she says, ‘I’m a nun,’ when it comes to this spying! … I mean, maybe that’s the wrong metaphor—but she was all in! Edit: Beaten, but 
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Jun 19, 2014 17:19
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GlyphGryph posted:Wait, do liberals even have a problem with hunting rifles? I thought that was like the one type of gun that everyone was pretty much okay with? It's a slippery scope... Edit: But seriously, if you really want to kill something, that's the hunting rifle's raison d'ętre. Body armor yields to serious hunting ammunition. Politically though, that's something else. Arrowsmith fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Jun 19, 2014 |
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Jun 19, 2014 17:30
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Wow, a guy with an "aw shucks" good-ole-boy persona turns out to be a regressive with gross ideas about gay people and women; I'm shocked. Can we admit that he's going to have a negligible impact on the Dem race now?
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Jun 19, 2014 17:34
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SedanChair posted:Ann Richards' vagina? Bill Clinton is Ed Gein (note: mcmagic may actually believe this).
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Jun 19, 2014 17:54
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Gregor Samsa posted:Bill Clinton is Ed Gein (note: mcmagic may actually believe this). Huh?
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Jun 19, 2014 17:56
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Schweitzer is pretty much the only guy who has said he will challenge Clinton in the race, and....well...yeah.
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Jun 19, 2014 18:01
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Suffolk poll of New Hampshire Republican primary voters shows some decided Mittmentum. They asked this after a question listing the same options without Romney, so it's not just name recognition.
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Jun 19, 2014 18:03
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Hell yeah, mitt 2016 let's fuckin' do this
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Jun 19, 2014 18:11
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Mitt Romney is our GOP presidential candidate forever. The party is damned to strap that dog to the roof of the car until the last light goes dark in America.
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Jun 19, 2014 18:15
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Joementum posted:Suffolk poll of New Hampshire Republican primary voters shows some decided Mittmentum. I think the more interesting thing about that poll is that Christie is ahead of Paul which is actually surprising in new Hampshire.
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Jun 19, 2014 18:28
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Obama as Brilliant Campaigner is as much propaganda as anything else, especially early on. He tacked to the left of Hillary, which wasn't hard at all, had establishment backing, and got a front-row seat to Clinton's really poorly-run campaign courtesy of lovely Planet Clinton advisors who had her blowing lots of resources on mathematically sub-optimal contests. She ran a horrible campaign. What was Obama to the left of Hillary on besides Iraq?
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Jun 19, 2014 18:32
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Vaguely for single payer. Lied about wanting to dismantle NAFTA. Was black.
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Jun 19, 2014 18:47
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There are few people who I would like to see go to jail more than Scott Walker.
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Jun 19, 2014 19:11
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mcmagic posted:There are few people who I would like to see go to jail more than Scott Walker. You might be in luck. http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...ry.html?hpid=z3
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Jun 19, 2014 19:48
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I'm so torn because there's nothing I would love to see more than the inevitable mental break that Romney would suffer should he win the nomination again and then lose the general once more, but the potential of him becoming President is just not worth it in my mind
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Jun 19, 2014 21:01
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I want him to run and fail to even get the nomination. Even the party of rich white guys rejecting him would be a fantastic realization for Romney to face every single morning for the rest of his life.
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Jun 19, 2014 21:06
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