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jrodefeld posted:In fact, I've read an interesting article by Kathryn Muratore, former Chemistry professor who is a Ph.D. in Molecular and Cell Biology: Do you read or cite anyone who doesn't have at least ten articles posted on white supremacist website LewRockwell.com? Muratore's past articles include "Debtomania" and "Ron Paul Can Win Iowa."
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Feb 11, 2015 18:09
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Political Whores posted:You are a repugnant human being and you have repeatedly demonstrated your intellectual dishonesty and cowardice. You have defended and repeated reprehensible opinions and ideas. Cut your false pretention to civility and rained debate, because you've yet to demonstrate any good faith in these discussions. Yeah seriously, strip away his (hilariously condescending and inept attempts at) civility and you are left with some real ugliness.
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Feb 11, 2015 18:10
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:Yeah seriously, strip away his (hilariously condescending and inept attempts at) civility and you are left with some real ugliness. This is inevitable for anyone who puts a lot of thought into the Just World Fallacy without rejecting it outright, whether they've bought into it as "markets are infallible" or otherwise. You're faced with situations where people are either hurt by your savior or actively oppose it, and you have to demonize them to keep your ideology intact. So people who try to help others without regard to profit must be secretly corrupt, disadvantaged groups are just lazy, cheap affordable healthcare just encourages sickness, and so on.
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Feb 11, 2015 18:41
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Boy, those thousands of Africans must really be regretting that they chose to contract Ebola right now, huh.
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Feb 11, 2015 18:45
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 HEY JRODEWant to stop talking about vaccinations and pretend that whole conversation never happened? Me too! Instead, let's talk about the nature of risk and welfare in an economy, following off of this: Muscle Tracer posted:
My argument boils down to this: in a Libertarian society, true innovation is suppressed, as it relies on the ability to invent things that do not already exist—an ability that, obviously, cannot be demonstrated. Individuals and businesses will err on the side of doing what has already been done, but slightly differently, because the costs of failure are high: if my Cajun-Indian fusion food cart fails, how am I going to feed my children? Better stick with generic pan-asian food instead, just like the restaurant across the street. In a Socialist society, however—and for our purposes let's assume that the only differences here are 1. a very high corporate and capital gains tax rate and 2. a universal government-provided mincome that keeps all humans above the poverty line—innovation is highly encouraged, because the cost of failure is lower. Here, if my Cajun-Indian fusion food cart fails, I can at least still feed my children, at the price of knowing that I will never become truly rich even if it succeeds. To me, the latter scenario is far preferable. I would rather have a 5% chance of riches and a 95% chance of mere wellbeing than a 25% chance of poverty, 70% chance of wellbeing, and a 10% chance of phenomenal wealth.
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Feb 11, 2015 19:02
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:Yeah seriously, strip away his (hilariously condescending and inept attempts at) civility and you are left with some real ugliness. Demands of civility in arguments are more often than not simply a way for oppressors to dismiss the plights of the victims. Tone arguments are always a massive red flag. SedanChair posted:Do you read or cite anyone who doesn't have at least ten articles posted on white supremacist website LewRockwell.com? Trademark libertarian bullshit right here; cherry-picked 'expert' with a degree (but not an applicable one) making unfounded assertions with specious conclusions, but they are just challenging 'the consensus' man. The consensus of the rest of the academic field and the reams of data, testing and investigation that exists, but yeah, the more likely conclusion is it's all a big progressive marxist conspiracy. Get hosed you ignorant, antivaxx and CC denying waste of human flesh, you are the thing that holds us back as a species and as a civilization. All that's missing is a call out to how misunderstood GamerGaters are.
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Feb 11, 2015 19:10
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Jrode the reason everyone treats you like poo poo is you're a smug rear end in a top hat who refuses to actually engage arguments in favor of running off on different arguments that you still nothing about, and wehn people go "hey you loving rear end in a top hat" you act all indignant. gently caress you.
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Feb 11, 2015 19:12
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Grognan posted:I'm beginning to think Jrod is a vaccine for Libertarianism. So uh yeah, didn't think he would actually start talking about vaccines though.
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Feb 11, 2015 19:14
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Muscle Tracer posted:
Well not me. Jrod basically lied about what Rand Paul said and then bitched about the lamestream media hammering a dumb person expressing an extremely dumb opinion that's based on falsehoods. Hammering a politician on having a repugnant and misinformed opinion on something is a good thing. This was one of those rare instances where the American media actually did a good thing, but jrod believes that it is a bad thing because the target happens to be a libertarian. I'd rather continue nailing Jrod to the cross for being a dishonest shithead than continue asking him questions that I know he's never going to bother answering
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Feb 11, 2015 19:48
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Ron Paul Atreides posted:All that's missing is a call out to how misunderstood GamerGaters are. Well he defends Molyneaux, so just give him time. Once mises.org weighs in, I'm sure we'll hear about it.
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Feb 11, 2015 19:53
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Ron Paul Atreides posted:All that's missing is a call out to how misunderstood GamerGaters are. I could have sworn he's weighed in on that. Maybe I am just too good at predicting what he'll say about any given issue.
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Feb 11, 2015 20:36
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QuarkJets posted:I'd rather continue nailing Jrod to the cross for being a dishonest shithead than continue asking him questions that I know he's never going to bother answering We are at an impasse. Only through the divinations of the Free Market of Ideas can we decide which of our viewpoints is Right and Correct.
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Feb 11, 2015 20:58
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jrodefeld posted:I have a few points I'd like to raise. I few days ago I asked what the political views were of the majority of posters. It comes as no surprise to me that most seemed to be entirely Marxist or mostly Marxist. In other words, most of you think that Capitalism is inherently immoral and flawed and in a perfect world it would be replaced with some socialist or egalitarian variant. This a week late but gently caress it I just now got this far and couldn't let this pass. Yes, the majority of Americans are against socialism/Marxism (Although most aren't as moronic as you to use the them interchangeably). But they are against the word as it's been redefined by mostly conservatives but are heavily for the concept. Ask 10 random 70 years olds their views on socialism and social security/Medicare and I'd bet my left nut they'd be heavily against the former and would cut you if you even mentioned touching the latter. As you say, the general population are idiots. I dont define myself as either even though I think highly of many of the core ideas but I am also not naive enough to believe they have ever been or ever will be implemented. Just like libertopia! I don't hate capitalism and I realize greedy fucks like yourself would just as soon let themselves be eaten alive by the 'free market' before giving it up less it help some undeserving subhuman. It's an evil we live with and I also realize I don't get to set the rules. If a significant percentage want it and vote to keep all or some of the current system in place then that's the price for living in a democratic republic. But on the flip side the rest of us that have to live with it get to regulate it, or at least try to. Yeah it sucks having to live and compromise withe rest of the people you hate but otherwise everything falls apart. You Mr captain of industry invent randian magic technology? Fine you get to profit off it for 7 years then it becomes public. Both sides get something, greedy assholes profit for awhile and then the rest of humanity advances like it should. I'll not bother to get into how you'd never invent magic cloaking devices or infinite energy without society giving you the means to do so but like the roads etc arguments you ignore I'll save us both the words. And thus is your answer as to why your ilk is spit on at every opportunity. Most people realize after high school that societies that aren't dictatorships everyone in theory has a say since they all have a stake in how society functions and as a result the people you disagree with, now matter how stupid or vile you may think their opinions are also get a say in how things work. If the VAST majority think your ideas are vile they will never, ever get implemented. So the choice becomes stay a whining man child goldbug or realize your ideas will never see the light of day and work towards changing what you can. Or keep playing the downtrodden genius whining about his superior by every metric besides facts manchild. Ask any ex-libertarian, most of us here were at some point. Acknowledging facts, history, data and reality not only strengthen your arguments but will vastly help you realize the difference between fantasyland and the real world. Hint: the latter can actually help you, the former will get you nowhere at best or turn you into a coloidal silver drinking smurf at worst.
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Feb 11, 2015 22:16
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SedanChair posted:I could have sworn he's weighed in on that. Maybe I am just too good at predicting what he'll say about any given issue. I will admit I usually let others pour over his flood of pointless verbiage for the real turds because gently caress reading all of that crap looking for a point. I wouldn't be surprised if he had though
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Feb 11, 2015 22:27
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For anyone who is curious, the most recent Majority Report debate with Walter Block is live on the website. Its about an hour long and if last time was any indication you should hear some... interesting positions on behalf of Walter Block.
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Feb 11, 2015 22:55
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It's seriously hilarious how much jrode feels compelled to defend the Paul family at all costs, including blaming the media for accurately reporting things they've said verbatim. He didn't give two shits about discussing vaccinations before this, but now that Rand Paul is in a world of poo poo over it it's suddenly his top priority. Was Ron Paul your gateway into an-cap, jrode? It's like a toddler getting mad because someone said a bad thing about mommy  Sephyr posted:You can't win in Libertopia, ever. I've brought up many various legal loopholes that could easily be legally exploited in Libertopia but what I really want to know is, what if you just didn't pay? Say I rape your daughter because I'm a sociopath, and there is irrefutable video evidence of this, and the court easily rules in your favor, but I still say "gently caress you, I don't agree and I'm not paying anything" and I happen to be the president of the local DRO? What happens? Who enforces that ruling?
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Feb 11, 2015 23:48
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Wolfsheim posted:It's seriously hilarious how much jrode feels compelled to defend the Paul family at all costs, including blaming the media for accurately reporting things they've said verbatim. He didn't give two shits about discussing vaccinations before this, but now that Rand Paul is in a world of poo poo over it it's suddenly his top priority. All your employees/customers would leave for a new dro obviously.
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Feb 11, 2015 23:58
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Wolfsheim posted:It's seriously hilarious how much jrode feels compelled to defend the Paul family at all costs, including blaming the media for accurately reporting things they've said verbatim. He didn't give two shits about discussing vaccinations before this, but now that Rand Paul is in a world of poo poo over it it's suddenly his top priority. As jarl of Valhalla DRO, you are beholden only to trials by single combat. If a pathetic serf objects to you mixing your labour with his woman, he can take up arms and prove his worthiness. The fact that you have more guns is irrelevant.
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Feb 12, 2015 00:03
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Caros posted:For anyone who is curious, the most recent Majority Report debate with Walter Block is live on the website. Its about an hour long and if last time was any indication you should hear some... interesting positions on behalf of Walter Block. majority report?  what kind of name is that
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Feb 12, 2015 01:04
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Caros posted:All your employees/customers would leave for a new dro obviously. A possible eventual decrease in overall market share; truly, justice has been served. What's sad is that that's pretty much the 'real' answer, only not extended across five paragraphs and with a couple links to mises thrown in.
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Feb 12, 2015 01:40
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jrodefeld posted:And reading comprehension is apparently lacking with many if not most of you. I didn't argue "against well-established medical practice". Rather, I said it is wrong to use force to make people get vaccines against their will. You must use persuasion and evidence to get them to practice good health habits. Actually, Jrod, you were defending Rand Paul's statements that ran directly contrary to the scientific evidence, and then continued on a bizarre rant backed with very little in the way of actual data and much in the way of paranoia. Then, when pressed, you became increasingly bizarre, until you went back to the familiar "Well, of course everything will work perfectly in a Libertarian society. It's simple! All we need are independent review boards who will handle everything." quote:I know this is shocking to you. I want you to actually put the loving gun down. I want you to behave like a civilized person and deal with people on a voluntary basis. I think it makes sense to have mandatory vaccine requirements for public schools but attending public schools should itself be voluntary. Different businesses and public areas can and will no doubt have certain requirements to prove sufficient good health so as to prevent outbreaks of infections. Did you just say "Put the loving gun down?" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA You know... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Going onto a board where we criticized that notion as idiotic and then using the same rhetoric that we've insulted as idiotic is idiotic. And is not something someone using logic and reason would do. Man, you're mix of "Hey, these things can totally work in a libertarian society" is just downright insane. So, where do I begin with this argument: 1) You put down the loaded gun of carrying deadly diseases that could be contained if you got a vaccine like measles. You are literally a danger to kids with cancer, old people, people with immune system weaknesses, and people too young to have been vaccinated. PUT THE GUN DOWN JRODEFELD. I DON'T WANT MEASLES! HOW DO I KNOW YOU DON'T HAVE IT! 2) If you want to live in a society, you have to follow the rules. One of the rules of our society is that you must receive vaccines as a precaution to prevent the spread of deadly diseases that can easily be contained. If you don't like it, you can vote with your feet and live elsewhere. 3) Despite what you think, your interactions with people are not voluntary. We cannot make every interaction voluntary. Whether you like it or not, you impact the lives of others around you. Grow up. Stop living this little teenaged fantasy where you can pretend that you're your own man and you're not part of the sheeple. 4) The idea that "Different businesses and public areas can and will no doubt have certain requirements to prove sufficient good health so as to prevent outbreaks of infections" is magical thinking. You're saying "Well, this could work, therefor, it will work." How do you propose this happens? Do I have to walk around with papers documenting every vaccine that I've received. When I go to shop, do I have to submit to a blood test, and pending the lab work, I'll be allowed to enter. Nobody will ever do that because it'd be too onerous and expensive to reasonably do. And it's not going to mean anything. You know how they say an ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of the cure. Well, an ounce of prevention is worth a lot more than 10 tons of prevention. quote:I genuinely wonder if any of you actually consider the notion of whether their might be a peaceful and voluntary solution to a social problem before you reach for the loving gun of the State and send your storm trooper uniformed pigs out to crack some loving skulls on your behalf. GROW THE gently caress UP. Do you know how ridiculous you sound. You sound like a loving child. You are a loving spoiled little privileged brat espousing an idiotic set of ideas. You are a loving parasite. You are a drain on society. Your existence is a blight against humanity. I pray to God that when the aliens come to judge us as a race that they don't pick you, because we are hopeless in that case. First off, when did we propose violence? Saying "Hey, if you want to live in our society, you need to take this basic measure that can save a lot of lives." You know, safety is one of the reasons people live in a society. They expect the government to keep them safe. You want to live in a society, but you don't want any of the consequences. You are a spiteful little man. This is how a child thinks. "Oh, you're so tough." We don't resort to violence. I don't know what psychopathic fantasies you're having, but none of us are seriously saying "Hey, let's bash in the heads of the unvaccinated!" quote:For the record, I don't claim that I know which vaccines make sense and which medical treatments are the best. I leave such decisions to my doctors. I don't recall us saying that the current way we inoculate children is the best way and that there aren't improvements that could be made to the system. Also, that's just the FLU VACCINE, NOT ALL. quote:Furthermore some vaccines, specifically the HPV vaccine given to young girls, have had significant enough side effects to prompt multiple lawsuits against the manufacturer. Did you read the abstract? Did you actually read this? Or you probably got this from some anti-vaxxer source (I really don't give a poo poo, one way or the other). Because this does not say what you're saying it says. The article, if the abstract is to be believed, is saying that there may be a link between patients with MS and the HPV vaccine. It simply says that we should do more research to find out. It's literally a research proposal. You are a lying sack of poo poo. You are a loving liar. You lied to us! You dishonest liar! You posted a link, said it says one thing when it says another. I want you to admit to us that you are an intellectually dishonest liar, and then go the gently caress away. You are not welcomed in a discussion with adults. Because you lied! You misrepresented what one of your links said. You liar! quote:To dismiss all of these studies and claims outright is intellectually dishonest. That's rich, coming from the lying liar. You are so loving dishonest. Don't you dare call me dishonest. PS - you didn't give us any studies that said what you said they said. So either you're stupid, or you're a liar. quote:It is particularly infuriating trying to have any sort of nuanced discussion about the subject as I know that you all are not trained doctors or scientists yet you posture as if you are. People who voice any concern about vaccines or their side effects and complications should be engaged with in an honest manner. Not everyone who objects to what the CDC has said is anti-intellectual like Jenny McCarthy. We're trying to have a nuanced conversation, but it's impossible when you ignore substantive claims made against you, it's impossible when you refuse to actually think about the things you're saying and provide us reasonable answers, it's impossible when you're delusional about how the world works, it's impossible when you're so ignorant and clueless, and it's impossible when you lie to us because you're a filthy lying liar! Also, what objections have people brought up that can be linked to vaccines? You're doing the "Creationist tango" here. You're basic insisting that we take your criticism seriously because you have a criticism of something. Well, no. You need to give us something that's more than just a possible correlation between an inoculation and a terrible medical tragedy. But you know what, most of these extreme cases that people list, they're not supported by evidence. It just happens that the timing just sucked. Also, you need to be honest if you want us to engage with you in an "honest" manner. But since you lie, and we've caught you being dishonest before... quote:The human body is incredibly complicated. I would encourage more long term studies to be undertaken to study the long term effects of heavy vaccination versus little or no vaccination on human health over a lifetime. Well, boy howdy, don't you think that there would be if there was a need? We haven't seen anything that would suggest that there are long term effects. Once again, you're trying to make an appeal to reason by saying "Hey, we should do more studies." Well, where are your facts? You're arguing from ignorance here. quote:The claim that their aren't reputable studies that support concerns over the safety of certain vaccines is absolutely, flat out incorrect. Please show us the studies that the support the concerns over the safety of certain vaccines. Please. Show us the loving studies. Show us the definitive studies. You can't, because you're a liar. Or you're an idiot who's so above his head that he can't possibly swim without drowning. quote:But regardless of this hard data, the real issue is your insistence on initiating violence against people who disagree with you. If the evidence is so conclusive and persuasive, you should be able to voluntarily persuade enough people to get vaccinated to create the sought after herd immunity where those stubborn hold outs will have little effect on overall public safety. STOP LYING YOU DISHONEST SACK OF poo poo! WE ARE NOT INSISTING ON USING VIOLENCE AGAINST PEOPLE WHO DISAGREE WITH US! PLEASE, SHOW ME THE TIMES WHERE I'VE SERIOUSLY INSISTED ON INITIATING VIOLENCE AGAINST OTHER PEOPLE. SHOW ME, YOU loving COWARD. YOU loving COWARD WHO HIDES BEHIND LIES AND DISHONESTY! quote:Put the loving guns down. Act like a civilized person for a change. Where are these guns of which you speak? Seriously. Grow up. Stop acting like you know what you talk about. Drop Mises.Org and start reading some real poo poo out there and get some knowledge before you come back here and fart and call it an argument. You liar.
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Feb 12, 2015 01:53
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I think jrodefeld telling us to "put the guns down" has some extra unintended layers of irony given the libertarian leanings of many second-amendment diehards and gun-hoarding lunatics. I wouldn't be surprised if the rate of weapons ownership among self-professed libertarians is at least a little bit higher than it is among the general public.
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Feb 12, 2015 02:04
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jrodefeld posted:Don't be loving stupid. Quarantine doesn't mean "certain death". They would get medical treatment at a hospital. A libertarian society will provide treatment for those that need it. All I'm saying is that you can't be diagnosed with Ebola and just choose to go to work and walk around infecting people. People will not permit such a thing and nor should they. How has nobody else jumped on this? No, a libertarian society will absolutely not provide treatment for those that need it. A libertarian society will provide treatment for those that can pay for it. Wouldn't you agree that's only fair? After all, the doctor shouldn't be forced to provide treatment unless there's some benefit in it for him. So when the hobo on the street gets ebola or smallpox or something, they can and will just shove him in a room and ignore him. Because they have no incentive to do anything else because he can't afford to pay them. "Ah, but Karia! He could sign a contract to pay them back in the future, thus providing repayment. As a Caucasion with a low time preference, the doctor would clearly love to get more money due to interest farther down the line." Jrod, what do you think the mortality of ebola is? It averages around 50%. There are no surefire treatments. Even if the doctor is going to view it as an investment, it's going to be risky as gently caress. And if you still think that's profitable? Inhalation anthrax. Over 50% mortality, with the best treatment possible. And it's not even contagious, so there's no reason that they would quarantine the person in a hospital. Explain to me why that homeless person wouldn't just be left to die on a street corner. Sure, it's rare, but it's not impossible. And what if they recovered, but were so crippled that they couldn't make money to pay the doctor back? This is one of those theoretical border cases that we were talking about. So. My question: there is a person suffering from a disease that makes it impossible that they will ever be able to pay for treatment at a reasonable market rate. They pose little health risk to others around them. Is there a moral obligation among doctors to help them, given no opportunity cost? Muscle Tracer posted:To me, the latter scenario is far preferable. I would rather have a 5% chance of riches and a 95% chance of mere wellbeing than a 25% chance of poverty, 70% chance of wellbeing, and a 10% chance of phenomenal wealth. Might want to check your math there.
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Feb 12, 2015 02:51
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Even though it literally never comes to this, I am not really opposed to ordering parents to vaccinate their children at gunpoint. My life and the lives of many children are at stake. Individual initiative has proven insufficient to provide for their safety. To fight against this aggression coming from ignorant anti-vaccine parents, we had to band together,and I would welcome it if we stopped coddling these morons and forced them to comply. I am not too concerned about the persecution narrative that will come out of this because they have managed to craft a persecution narrative where there is no persecution. If they are intending to write heart wrenching novels like Corrie Ten Boom about their travails, it will look ridiculous and we will all laugh.
woke wedding drone fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 02:57
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Any given response would include some variation on "While it would be wrong to require doctors to provide treatment without being paid, we can take for granted in a libertarian society enough doctors would exist who were compassionate enough to, voluntarily, provide free care to some patients, whether due to their own charitable nature or because they don't want the community to view them as greedy bastards." Or, if you'd like a more succinct version, just think back to the last impressive fart you had. SedanChair posted:Even though it literally never comes to this, I am not really opposed to ordering parents to vaccinate their children at gunpoint. Getting to that point too, myself.
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Feb 12, 2015 02:59
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Perhaps JRod has a fetish for the "use of force" and is subtly trying to coax us into "unleashing our pigs" on him.
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Feb 12, 2015 03:00
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archangelwar posted:Perhaps JRod has a fetish for the "use of force" and is subtly trying to coax us into "unleashing our pigs" on him. not need to resort to that I'm sure most of us would be quite happy to stomp him ourselves
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Feb 12, 2015 03:12
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Any given response would include some variation on "While it would be wrong to require doctors to provide treatment without being paid, we can take for granted in a libertarian society enough doctors would exist who were compassionate enough to, voluntarily, provide free care to some patients, whether due to their own charitable nature or because they don't want the community to view them as greedy bastards." On one hand, yes, I'm pretty sure that's what he'll say. On the other hand, that's explicitly not what I asked, and if he ignores that, then we'll as good as have his answer. I'm asking about moral imperatives, not pragmatic results. He should feel a lot more comfortable here: no pesky evidence needed, we're just talking about deontological ethical appeals. I personally think that having a strong moral obligation to help others regardless of profit built into the cornerstone of the medical profession is necessary in order to ensure an effective, trustworthy medical system, regardless of whether that obligation actually saves many lives.
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Feb 12, 2015 03:15
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SedanChair posted:Even though it literally never comes to this, I am not really opposed to ordering parents to vaccinate their children at gunpoint. My life and the lives of many children are at stake. Individual initiative has proven insufficient to provide for their safety. To fight against this aggression coming from ignorant anti-vaccine parents, we had to band together,and I would welcome it if we stopped coddling these morons and forced them to comply. I am not too concerned about the persecution narrative that will come out of this because they have managed to craft a persecution narrative where there is no persecution. If they are intending to write heart wrenching novels like Corrie Ten Boom about their travails, it will look ridiculous and we will all laugh. Someone post that short story about Obama immunizing kylejack.
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Feb 12, 2015 04:29
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paragon1 posted:Someone post that short story about Obama immunizing kylejack. Your wish is my command, in this and only this specific instance. quote:King Hussein Obama I, flanked by his bodyguards, stepped out of his blinged Limoscalade and marched up the gold-lined marble steps of Washington Palace. It should have been a glorious day, yet under his heavy yet exquisite crown of carved human fetus-ivory his brow was ridged deeply as he silently brooded. Still, his posse, boomboxes on their shoulders, dance-walked up the steps, chains and gats jangling over the din as they grabbed their crotches.
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Feb 12, 2015 04:47
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Man, that little story gets better every time I read it. A modern classic.
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Feb 12, 2015 06:09
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So, I have two options tomorrow go watch my mother and her husband perform in a play, or go play Warhammer 40k, a hobby I recently got into. At first I felt bad even considering putting my own selfish interest before my family, but then I decided to look up the name of the play "The Night of January 16th". Now my stepfather is a huge objectivist, which makes this to much of a coincidence in my book since the play in question was written by Ayn Rand. I'm not sure if skipping out on it to play with shorty space mans is the right thing, but drat it feels like being able to say "I followed my rational self interest" would be a great zinger when asked why I didn't attend.
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Feb 12, 2015 07:11
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Uroboros posted:So, I have two options tomorrow go watch my mother and her husband perform in a play, or go play Warhammer 40k, a hobby I recently got into. At first I felt bad even considering putting my own selfish interest before my family, but then I decided to look up the name of the play "The Night of January 16th". Now my stepfather is a huge objectivist, which makes this to much of a coincidence in my book since the play in question was written by Ayn Rand. I'm not sure if skipping out on it to play with shorty space mans is the right thing, but drat it feels like being able to say "I followed my rational self interest" would be a great zinger when asked why I didn't attend. Play warhams. Ayn Rand's work is universally garbage.
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Feb 12, 2015 07:19
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If you're a Space Marine player, gently caress off, you deserve to watch a Libertarian play  .(Seriously though, go play 40k, I stopped playing years ago but I'd still say there's no way watching a Libertarian play with your mom would be more fun than an evening of 40k. Maybe go to be moral support for your mom if she's not a Libertarian but she is, go hogwild) burnishedfume fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 07:34
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Eh, Night of January 16th isn't bad. It's from her early years before she went batshit and thought 50-page 4-hour speeches about how the poor deserve to die are a good idea. I don't think you'll hate it, go support your mom's play. If nothing else, seeing her play out of charity to someone else would be such an insult to old Ayn that she might cry out in hell.
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Feb 12, 2015 07:39
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VitalSigns posted:Eh, Night of January 16th isn't bad. It's from her early years before she went batshit and thought 50-page 4-hour speeches about how the poor deserve to die are a good idea. I don't think you'll hate it, go support your mom's play. ... I've changed my vote. The screams of Ayn Rand at such.... altruism are worth it.
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Feb 12, 2015 07:42
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Uroboros posted:So, I have two options tomorrow go watch my mother and her husband perform in a play, or go play Warhammer 40k, a hobby I recently got into. At first I felt bad even considering putting my own selfish interest before my family, but then I decided to look up the name of the play "The Night of January 16th". Now my stepfather is a huge objectivist, which makes this to much of a coincidence in my book since the play in question was written by Ayn Rand. I'm not sure if skipping out on it to play with shorty space mans is the right thing, but drat it feels like being able to say "I followed my rational self interest" would be a great zinger when asked why I didn't attend. You could change 40k to "put out my own eyes" and I would still have a hard time telling you to go to that play. That sounds like the sort of thing where you would experience more horror and embarrassment in a single evening than you had heretofore accumulated in your lifetime.
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Feb 12, 2015 07:53
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I should probably clarify. It has an interesting storytelling device that is fun to watch, and the characters are decent people compared to her other creations. This means of course that they are horrible, spiteful, despicable fucks by normal human standards, but she hadn't yet formulated her theories of pinnacle assholishness , so none of them would for example leave their oldest and truest and most loyal childhood friend to die from exposure in the desert while running a pointless errand on their behalf, and never give him another thought not even so much as "hey I wonder if he ever finished that errand, he sure has been gone a while." VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 07:58 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 07:56
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VitalSigns posted:I should probably clarify. It has an interesting storytelling device that is fun to watch, and the characters are decent people compared to her other creations. Yeah, what I read made it clear I wasn't going to get Atlas Shrugged in play form. Still, I got the feeling that you can still get hints of her philosophy based on how the characters are presented. I've personally never been able to stomach her writing. I've had a pretty decent understanding of objectivism since college, but it wasn't until after I joined the military that things got weird. Her current husband is by all rights a total stand-up guy, and very talented. In fact I have met few people as driven and skilled as him: software engineer, mechanic, carpenter, etc the guy is ultra-handy and really nice. In fact the few objectivists/libertarians I know who are over the age of 21 really all fall well within this category, so I don't know if this whole "I don't need anyone else" attitude is purely a by product of being more talented/skilled than the average person and simply misattributing those skills to their own choice as opposed to the realization that they were born lucky. When I was overseas I remember getting an IPod for my birthday that they had loaded with over 10,000 songs, and a single audio book that my mother had just listened to that I "really should hear". Turns out it was Atlas Shrugged, now having gone through my whole insufferable militant atheism phase back in college, I had become familiar with what Atlas Shrugged was about, and determined then that I wanted nothing to do with it. That being said, I actually made it over a full hour into the audiobook before turning it off and deleting it. Fast-forward to the present and it has become clear that my mother has been ensorcelled with her husbands passionate support of objectivism. Being a grown adult and knowing a little more about my mother and her past divorces kind of makes me wonder if this philosophy was meant for her all along. Also, I am going to go on record and say that the grim darkness of the 41st millennium where people die in their billions is still more desirable than what libertarians in charge would bring... DrProsek posted:If you're a Space Marine player, gently caress off, you deserve to watch a Libertarian play poo poo. TheArmorOfContempt fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 08:18
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| # ? May 31, 2024 01:20 |
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I've seen a performance of that play. It was entirely forgettable. And that was even during the dark time when I was a huge Rand fan. On the other hand, if you go, you can come back and provide the thread with a trip report.
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Feb 12, 2015 08:48
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