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DJ Dizzy
Feb 11, 2009

Real men don't use bolters.
Epic!



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opulent fountain
Aug 13, 2007

that looks like a game of Starcraft, and that's really cool.

Improbable Lobster
Jan 6, 2012

"From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.
Buglord
It's too bad that DreadFleet bombed because we would probably have gotten an Epic or Adeptus Titanicus boxset by now.

Slimnoid
Sep 6, 2012

Does that mean I don't get the job?

Improbable Lobster posted:

It's too bad that DreadFleet bombed because we would probably have gotten an Epic or Adeptus Titanicus boxset by now.

I don't think anyone would have liked a new version of Epic that was made from the same mindset as Dreadfleet, which it likely would have gone in that direction if DF had been a success.

opulent fountain
Aug 13, 2007

edit: ^^^^ well, it's safe to assume that DreadFleet would have been a different game if it was successful! although, from what I understand, it was supposed to be WHFB's version of Space Hulk.

Improbable Lobster posted:

It's too bad that DreadFleet bombed because we would probably have gotten an Epic or Adeptus Titanicus boxset by now.

haha, seeing those Epic screenshots actually made me go and see how much DreadFleet is going for. I was surprised to see it's cheaper! I'll probably end up buying it eventually because I love the models, but yeah, I'm guessing it really didn't catch on.

so I've talked a little bit in this thread about getting into the hobby. I haven't really played since 4th and the beginning of 5th. I bought the new 7th Dark Vengeance set for the rules and also because the models look cool and I want to paint them. I want to primarily play Dark Eldar, but I have some interest in some other armies. for now, I'm trying to focus on the models I'll actually have.

I hear a lot of people say that the Dark Angels codex doesn't really hold up, and my main interest is in Deathwing. Is it any good?

CSM seems like it has some really cool models in general in its army, but I would have no idea what I'm doing making a list for them. I'm not really a fan of Nurgle which is a shame, because from what I've read, he (and his mark) has all the best stuff. are Noise Marines good?

Icon Of Sin
Dec 26, 2008



dichloroisocyanuric posted:


I hear a lot of people say that the Dark Angels codex doesn't really hold up, and my main interest is in Deathwing. Is it any good?


I think the main advantage of Deathwing right now is that you can try to angle for going second, and reserve all of them for a Deathwing Assault on turn 1, instead of only reserving half of them like in 6th. It would deny your opponent a turn of shooting, and when your terminators do come down they'll be twin-linked for that first turn. That might be their only advantage, though :v:

SRM
Jul 10, 2009

~*FeElIn' AweS0mE*~
So before I headed to Oregon for a week I managed to play a game of 40k with my dad. We played a modified version of a mission out of the Cityfight book, where you have a defender and an attacker. The defender starts with as many HQ, Troops, and Heavy Support units as it can fit within 8" of the objective building, and inside the building itself. The rest of their force (so Elites, Fast Attack, and whatever doesn't fit) all come in via reserves. Meanwhile, the attacker has their whole army start on the board more than 18" away from any enemy models. At the end of the game, if the defender has any models still in the objective building, they win. I lined up 3300 points of Valhallans and Iron Warriors and we had a slugfest that ended on turn 5 with the Iron Warriors' Dark Apostle, Sorceror, and a handful of Marines holding onto the central building. A super advantageous seized initiative really helped me take it with the Iron Warriors, and I caught a lot of his troops out of position in the following turns. It was a fun game though, and I took a mess of iPhone photos of it:














SRM fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Aug 10, 2014

DJ Dizzy
Feb 11, 2009

Real men don't use bolters.

dichloroisocyanuric posted:

that looks like a game of Starcraft, and that's really cool.

Twas a 12.000 point on each side game. Scenario was a sort of last stand on the part of the imperials. The Tyranids kept coming back after they were destroyed. Was a really great game overall.

AbusePuppy
Nov 1, 2012

BEST DAY OF MY LIFE!!!!!! so far.

dichloroisocyanuric posted:

so I've talked a little bit in this thread about getting into the hobby. I haven't really played since 4th and the beginning of 5th. I bought the new 7th Dark Vengeance set for the rules and also because the models look cool and I want to paint them. I want to primarily play Dark Eldar, but I have some interest in some other armies. for now, I'm trying to focus on the models I'll actually have.

I hear a lot of people say that the Dark Angels codex doesn't really hold up, and my main interest is in Deathwing. Is it any good?

CSM seems like it has some really cool models in general in its army, but I would have no idea what I'm doing making a list for them. I'm not really a fan of Nurgle which is a shame, because from what I've read, he (and his mark) has all the best stuff. are Noise Marines good?

Dark Eldar are in an awkward position right now- while they are still extremely fast and hid very, very hard, the changes in 6th and 7th edition have left them amazingly fragile, beyond what the designers (presumably) ever intended. They have a handful of good units, a few acceptable units, and a lot of very bad units; going first as Dark Eldar can feel almost unfair, but going second as them feels incredibly punishing. The two rays of light for them currently is that they are Battle Brothers with Eldar, which is one of the strongest armies in the game and nicely fills the gaps where they are lacking, and that as one of the oldest codices around, they are very likely to see an update by spring at the latest.

Dark Angels aren't exactly bad, but there's not a lot they do that other books don't do better. Deathwing, however, is perhaps their only unique feature- sadly, their Terminators are incredibly expensive, which combined with their limited resilience (bizarre as it may seem to say that) means that they can struggle against a lot of armies. If you're playing in a fairly casual environment a pure Deathwing army can do acceptably, especially with a small inclusion of Inquisition to lend them a helping hand; otherwise, they tend to be towards the bottom of the middle tier- weakish, but not unplayable.

CSM has a lot of problems, but the truth is that despite everything the book still has a few very strong units in it that it can lean on. While Nurgle is generally the "best" Mark, it is by no means the only option, nor is it necessarily the best option for every unit. Noise Marines are arguably the best of the cult troops (with Plague Marines being their competition) and can be surprisingly dangerous when used right. A Slaanesh-themed army can essentially go two ways- heavy on cult troops for a primarily-shooting army that pummels the enemy from a distance with Blastmasters, Havocs, Obliterators, and Heldrakes, or a hyper-aggressive army that uses Maulerfiends, Spawn and Bikes to support punchy HQs and possibly some good Elites. There are a handful of other successful builds for CSM as well, but those are the two simplest. CSM ally well with Daemons and the "aggression" build dovetails nicely with the Slaaneshi daemonic options, if you're interested in that idea.

HiveCommander
Jun 19, 2012

Noise Marines are good? I never picked up a new Chaos codex for my pre-heresy Emperor's Children, but I'm starting to consider it now...
What makes them good this time around?

Von Humboldt
Jan 13, 2009

HiveCommander posted:

Noise Marines are good? I never picked up a new Chaos codex for my pre-heresy Emperor's Children, but I'm starting to consider it now...
What makes them good this time around?
They're Fearless, can pick up Feel No Pain if you care for it, and their guns have Ignores Cover and Salvo 2/3. They will chew up anything with a poor save with ease. can put enough shots to force wounds on almost anything, and have to be killed to the last man to normally get them off an objective. I've seen them used like somewhat more aggressive Plague Marines; you get them into cover in a good position, they're a pain to drive off, and they put out a pretty large threat radius around them that says "enter here if you want to get shot."

AbusePuppy
Nov 1, 2012

BEST DAY OF MY LIFE!!!!!! so far.
I actually typically use mine in somewhat the opposite way- the Blastmaster hits very hard (S8 AP3 ignores cover blast) and has a long range, so they can hide somewhere in your backfield, often inside a building or under cover of a Void Shield, and pummel the enemy. Should the other side push forward, you can support with their Salvo 2/3 shots, but those are rather secondary most of the time.

NovaLion
Jun 2, 2013

REMEMBER

AbusePuppy posted:

as one of the oldest codices around, they are very likely to see an update by spring at the latest.

This would make me extremely happy. I have a box full of Deldar that a buddy gave me before he ETS'd that I want to play with. It would help sway me away from Space Wolves, too.

HiveCommander
Jun 19, 2012

Noise Marines sound really drat good now, a nice change from I5 Chaos Marines with not-Stormbolter upgrades in the last 'dex. I... may have to consider a Forgeworld EC army with Kakophoni counts-as Noise Marines.

PierreTheMime
Dec 9, 2004

Hero of hormagaunts everywhere!
Buglord

HiveCommander posted:

Noise Marines sound really drat good now, a nice change from I5 Chaos Marines with not-Stormbolter upgrades in the last 'dex. I... may have to consider a Forgeworld EC army with Kakophoni counts-as Noise Marines.

If you're using them in the way that AbusePuppy mentioned, remember that they've FAQ'd the codex so you can take 2 Blastmasters in a unit if you have ten models.

AbusePuppy
Nov 1, 2012

BEST DAY OF MY LIFE!!!!!! so far.
Yeah, the FAQ lets them take one Blastmaster, plus a second one if you have at least ten models (rather than one per ten as printed in the codex.) It's a huge difference for me, as I tend to run 2-4 minimum-sized squads of them.

PierreTheMime
Dec 9, 2004

Hero of hormagaunts everywhere!
Buglord

AbusePuppy posted:

Yeah, the FAQ lets them take one Blastmaster, plus a second one if you have at least ten models (rather than one per ten as printed in the codex.) It's a huge difference for me, as I tend to run 2-4 minimum-sized squads of them.

What do your Slaanesh-leaning CSM lists look like, in general? I've already wanted to play around with a Noise Marine list but could never really get a cohesive list that worked.

Boon
Jun 21, 2005

by R. Guyovich
I'm curious what you think of these. They are somewhat plain due to lack of detail, but I think they turned out alright:








I made a couple of minor modifications to the Exarch.

opulent fountain
Aug 13, 2007

AbusePuppy posted:

Dark Eldar are in an awkward position right now

That's a shame to hear because they are far and above as my favorite army. Here's to hoping they get a new codex soon, because I love their models anyway. I want to build an army of them anyway (because 'gently caress it, they're cool!'), but for now, I'd like to play an army with options / that I can have a lot of fun with. I actually got a hold of some Dark Eldar units and their codex for dirty cheap, but I'm contented just painting them until a new codex releases if they're not very good on the field. I have 5x Warriors, 10x Wyches, 2x Succubi, a Haemonculus, a Raider, a Venom, and 2x Ravagers. Also came with a foam carrying case. The troops are assembled (poorly), and so is the Raider, Venom, and one Ravager, and it's all really dusty from sitting around, and some of them have some weird glossy black primer on them, but I payed almost nothing for it.

AbusePuppy posted:

Eldar, which is one of the strongest armies

Eldar are really that powerful? I haven't been able to look at their new codex at all. Is it the kind of thing where people hate playing against them, or are they fun for both sides?


AbusePuppy posted:

Dark Angels aren't exactly bad

Ah, that's a shame. I have flipped through their codex and nothing especially caught my eye. The idea of an all-termi list seemed cool (and cheap?), but not much else seemed to be going on. On the opposite end of that, the amount of toys in C:SM in the latest edition has blown me away.

AbusePuppy posted:

Noise Marines are arguably the best of the cult troops (with Plague Marines being their competition) and can be surprisingly dangerous when used right. A Slaanesh-themed army can essentially go two ways- heavy on cult troops for a primarily-shooting army that pummels the enemy from a distance with Blastmasters, Havocs, Obliterators, and Heldrakes, or a hyper-aggressive army that uses Maulerfiends, Spawn and Bikes to support punchy HQs and possibly some good Elites.

Both of those lists sound fun, and I'm a fan of Slaanesh. I think I could convert some DA units into looking like Noise Marines if I can make them chaosy enough. I like the look of the pre-heresy Emperor's Children with the tabards.

Thank you for the great information!

opulent fountain fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Aug 10, 2014

Sykic
Feb 9, 2004

Resist! Humanity demands it! Resist!
Regarding Eldar, can we all at least agree that the new Fire Prism design is terrible compared to the old one?

Cataphract
Sep 10, 2004

Fun Shoe

dichloroisocyanuric posted:

That's a shame to hear because they are far and above as my favorite army. Here's to hoping they get a new codex soon, because I love their models anyway. I want to build an army of them anyway (because 'gently caress it, they're cool!'), but for now, I'd like to play an army with options / that I can have a lot of fun with. I actually got a hold of some Dark Eldar units and their codex for dirty cheap, but I'm contented just painting them until a new codex releases if they're not very good on the field. I have 5x Warriors, 10x Wyches, 2x Succubi, a Haemonculus, a Raider, a Venom, and 2x Ravagers. Also came with a foam carrying case. The troops are assembled (poorly), and so is the Raider, Venom, and one Ravager, and it's all really dusty from sitting around, and some of them have some weird glossy black primer on them, but I payed almost nothing for it.
They'll get their new codex pretty soon. The only codexes that need to be redone are Grey Knights, Necrons, Blood Angels and Dark Eldar... The mistake in the digital edition of the space wolves codex suggests that grey knights are next so my guess would be Dark Eldar after that, since I don't think they'd release 3 space marine codexes on the trot and necrons were the last codex of 5th ed.

quote:

Eldar are really that powerful? I haven't been able to look at their new codex at all. Is it the kind of thing where people hate playing against them, or are they fun for both sides?
People do hate to play against armies with 6 wave serpents, yes. But you can definitely build a list that's not cheese. There are a lot of very strong options in the eldar book.

quote:

Ah, that's a shame. I have flipped through their codex and nothing especially caught my eye. The idea of an all-termi list seemed cool (and cheap?), but not much else seemed to be going on. On the opposite end of that, the amount of toys in C:SM in the latest edition has blown me away.
Yeah, the Dark Angels book is just plain outclassed by the space marine book. Ravenwing armies used to be ok and RW black Knights have their uses but white scars just do all bke armies so much better. I have seen a number of ravenwing armies being used as "Black" Scars. But, if you're just looking to play casually it is very cheap to build a deathwing army and it can be fun outside of a tournament environment.

quote:

Both of those lists sound fun, and I'm a fan of Slaanesh. I think I could convert some DA units into looking like Noise Marines if I can make them chaosy enough. I like the look of the pre-heresy Emperor's Children with the tabards.

Thank you for the great information!
Truth be told Chaos aren't the strongest codex either at the moment but I love my Death Guard army and I think they fare just fine on the battlefield.

At the end of the day you should play whatever army interests you the most. It sounds like you really like Dark Eldar so I reckon you should go down that road. You're probably going to spend more time building and painting your figures than actually playing so you should spend that time working on something you like. No army is utterly terrible* and a good player can take any army to victory and. like I said, Dark Eldar will probably have a new codex within the next six months. Abuse Puppy's advice is excellent in terms of competitive play and list building but take it with a grain of salt. You're going to invest a lot of time and money into this hobby and competitive play is a small part of it. You should build paint and play with the models and army you like the most.


*even Tyranids

HiveCommander
Jun 19, 2012

What digital mistake did I miss, and are there any juicy details about GKs that you discovered?

Lord Hypnostache
Nov 6, 2009

OATHBREAKER
Let's talk about Objective Markers!


Here's the stuff I've been using as objective markers. I think objective markers are a great additional way to add narrative to the games and thematic markers are always million times better than generic coins with numbers.

Unfortunately with the new edition, these markers have become obsolete, since they don't have numbers for Maelstrom missions. So I've been thinking of making new ones. I have more space marine backpack banners than I'm going to use, so I was thinking of building markers from them. I haven't quite gotten the handle of the new rules yet, but how does that sound? Would it work? Do markers nowadays require anything beyond a number from 1 to 6?

Hollismason
Jun 30, 2007
An alright dude.

Hollismason posted:

Look I'm trapped in the hospital and borde making up lists here is the final one I promise

Ally
Ally
Herald of Slaanesh w/ Steed, Level 2 , Exalted 140
Herald w/ Level 2, Excess 120
Herald w/ Level 2 90
Herald w/ Level 2 90


Troops
15 Daemonettes w/ ICON




H. Support
Soul Grinder /w Mark of Tzeentch, bale


Soul Grinder can be invisbile, Likely , or Shrouded, for 3++

PRIMARY
Chaos Sorcerer w/ Terminator Armour w/ Spell Familiar (Malefic, telepathy )
Chaos Sorcerer w/ Terminator Armour w/ Spell Familiar Level 3 ( Sanctic, Telepathy )

Troops
10 Cultists 50
10 Cultist 50

H.
Support
3 Obliterators w/ Mark of Nurgle 234
Maulerfiend 125

Formation

Murder Pack

5 Chaos Helbrutes

500 Points


TOTAL 2000 points. .


Any thoughts on this or is it terrible? I can't figure it out.

Boon
Jun 21, 2005

by R. Guyovich
Can anyone give me thoughts on this list for a 1,500 point, generally very competitive, tournament list?

Headquarters
Farseer
- Runes of Warding
- Spirit Stone


Spiritseer

Troops
x5 Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent
- Scatter Laser
- Holofield


x5 Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent
- Scatter Laser
- Holofield


x5 Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent
- Scatter Laser
- Holofield


Heavy Support
x3 Vaul's Wrath Support Battery
- D-Cannons

Wraithknight

Wraithknight
- Suncannon
- Scatter Laser


The general idea is to place the Farseer and Spiritseer in the D-Cannon unit give them an effective T7, gives the battery a little bit of help against assaulters, and most importantly, gives a nearly indestructible, very deadly support unit.

The Farseer rolls 3 times on Telepathy looking for Invisibility or Shrouding (for the Wraithknights) while the Spiritseer rolls on Runes of Battle for the armor increase while getting Conceal as a matter of focused discipline.

Boon fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Aug 10, 2014

A 50S RAYGUN
Aug 22, 2011
you have no troops and you need to get over your borderline troubling obsession with summoning, you're spending 2k points for the worst scoring possible in the game and all you're getting in return is a soul grinder that is slightly more annoying to kill

xtothez
Jan 4, 2004


College Slice

That's awesome! Where did those little modern-style Carnifexes come from... are they conversions or is someone out there making decent 6mm Not-Tyranids like some other Epic ranges?

LingcodKilla posted:

The falcon got updated too. Some of the random weather vanes and twin linked shuriken cats got better sculpts but the body stayed the same. If you don't believe I can take a picture of two side by side.

Was that when they did the Fire Prism / Nightspinner rebox sometime during 5th, to get rid of the old metal components?

Hollismason
Jun 30, 2007
An alright dude.

SUPER NEAT TOY posted:

you have no troops and you need to get over your borderline troubling obsession with summoning, you're spending 2k points for the worst scoring possible in the game and all you're getting in return is a soul grinder that is slightly more annoying to kill

I have like multiple units to summon should I go for a more mixture of H. Tank and Summoning with Invisibility?

NTRabbit
Aug 15, 2012

i wear this armour to protect myself from the histrionics of hysterical women

bitches




Sykic posted:

Regarding Eldar, can we all at least agree that the new Fire Prism design is terrible compared to the old one?

No, we cannot. Very much prefer the current Fire Prism model to the stumpy crystal one I see in photos.

Slimnoid
Sep 6, 2012

Does that mean I don't get the job?

NTRabbit posted:

No, we cannot. Very much prefer the current Fire Prism model to the stumpy crystal one I see in photos.

For one, the new Fire Prism stays together, whereas the old metal one fell apart if you looked at it wrong. And even if it stayed together for longer than five minutes it was so loving top-heavy it was liable to tip over, probably breaking your flight stand in the process.

Hollismason
Jun 30, 2007
An alright dude.

Hollismason posted:

I have like multiple units to summon should I go for a more mixture of H. Tank and Summoning with Invisibility?

Oh wait I mean what you said, yeah I need to change those up, I just want a big Invisibility , Machine star w/ tons of Slaanesh casting Psychic Scream and Invisbility. Not really summoning per see.

AbusePuppy
Nov 1, 2012

BEST DAY OF MY LIFE!!!!!! so far.

PierreTheMime posted:

What do your Slaanesh-leaning CSM lists look like, in general? I've already wanted to play around with a Noise Marine list but could never really get a cohesive list that worked.

The version I actually play is the shooty one, since I don't have all of models to run the Maulerfiends and Friends list. It comes out something like this:

Chaos Lord (either Burning Brand + Lightning Claw + Blade of the Relentless + Daemonheart, riding on Steed)
20-30 Cultists, depending on the size of the game
2-4 x5 Noise Marines, with one Blastmaster and three Sonic Blasters in each squad
1-2 Heldrakes
7 Havocs with four Autocannons (occasionally a few more ablative bodies and/or Veterans of the Long War)
remaining HS slots and points filled with Obliterators of Nurgle (often with VotLW also)
Void Relay Network: 2 Void Shield Generators with maximum shields + Promethium Pipes

That's the one I've settled on most recently, it comes in around 1500-1750 depending. The VSGs shelter the army while it throws out firepower; Heldrakes and the Lord give me some outreach potential. Promethium Pipes are a surprise "gently caress you" for a lot of armies because people forget that Obliterators are Relentless and thus can move up into contact with the Pipes and then throw out a S5 AP4 template up to 12"; Oblits generally serve as my counter-assault units, although depending on the matchup the Lord+Cultists can hold back as well.

It's not amazing, but it functions pretty well and presents some dilemmas for a lot of armies. Drop Pods kick it in the balls fairly hard, though. I converted my own Void Shield Generators using the Vengeance Weapons Battiers, which feel a lot more "right" in size than the absurd GW model; if you don't want to use them, an Imperial Strongpoint (2 Bastions + 1 Aegis Line) could do the job in a pinch.

dichloroisocyanuric posted:

Eldar are really that powerful? I haven't been able to look at their new codex at all. Is it the kind of thing where people hate playing against them, or are they fun for both sides?
They're arguably the strongest codex in the game right now, yeah. Whether or not people hate playing them depends somewhat on the units- while there's some good stuff scattered throughout the book, the majority of its power level rests with a handful of units and abilities, so if you don't take them people will have very little room to complain. Specifically, the Wave Serpent with Scatter Lasers and Jetseer Council (2 Farseers + 10 Warlorks, all on bikes) are both amazingly stupid-powerful; avoid them and you should mostly be fine.

HiveCommander posted:

What digital mistake did I miss, and are there any juicy details about GKs that you discovered?

All the Inquisitional stuff and assassins are gone, as best we can tell; Psybolt Ammo is also gone, a number of small point shifts in various units. Librarians are down to 100pts, Terminators are 33pts, Paladins are ~65pts; a lot of the melee weapon prices dropped slightly, but Termies/Paladins apparently no longer get them for free. No more FoC-swaps with characters. Draigo is cheaper and a Lord of War. Relics: Bone Shard of Solor, The fury of Deimos, Cuirass of Sacrifice, The Soul Glaive, Domina Liber Daemonica. Dreadknight Teleporter is a lot cheaper.

So basically the army I used to run is completely and totally nonviable, because everything that made it function was gutted. Goddamnit, GW.

Lord Hypnostache posted:


Here's the stuff I've been using as objective markers. I think objective markers are a great additional way to add narrative to the games and thematic markers are always million times better than generic coins with numbers.

Unfortunately with the new edition, these markers have become obsolete, since they don't have numbers for Maelstrom missions. So I've been thinking of making new ones. I have more space marine backpack banners than I'm going to use, so I was thinking of building markers from them. I haven't quite gotten the handle of the new rules yet, but how does that sound? Would it work? Do markers nowadays require anything beyond a number from 1 to 6?

Man, using a cyber-mastiff as an objective? That's some heresy, son!

Seems like it would be relatively-easy to mark a numeral onto your current ones somewhere (on a shoulder pad, on the flag somewhere, etc) if you wanted to keep using them. But that aside, having a 1-6 on them for Maelstrom is the main thing you'd want.


Hmm. I... I kinda think I see what you're trying to do here, but to be perfectly frank it feels like a bit of a mess. You have some good ideas going- the "psychic shriek-a-thon" is pretty brutal against a lot of people, especially Orks and Marines, but there's also other stuff I don't understand what you're trying to do with it. The Murder Pack is cool, but it doesn't fit with the rest of your stuff at all; likewise, you aren't really generating that many psychic dice but are trying to cast a lot of big spells and a bunch of stuff is slated to go into reserve, denying you those dice for several turns. You've just got a lot of points sunk into really weird places, basically, and I'm not really sure where to take the list. Do you want to do psychic shenanigans? CSM + Daemons are absolutely capable of that and you can even go Slaanesh-themed really easily. Do you wanna do crazy walker madness? That's also a possibility, but the entry price there is not cheap- if you're gonna do it, I think you need to dedicate the list to it. You even could casually toss in some of the stuff you have in a "normal" list pretty easily without crippling it, but I feel like you're reaching for too many gimmicks here and ending up not supporting any of them well.

So I guess my question for you is: what do you want to be the focus of things? There's lots going on here, and I think the best way to improve it is to trim the fat, so to speak, and make it a bit more concerted in its efforts.

Boon posted:

Can anyone give me thoughts on this list for a 1,500 point, generally very competitive, tournament list?

*deletia*
-I usually go with the chin Cannon on my Serpents; 10pts for +1 shot, +2 Str, +12" range is a really good deal even if you happen to be snapfiring every turn. And if you don't wanna use the Shield for some reason, it gives you a second weapon to shoot with.

-I don't like the Suncannon WK. It's just too many points for what feels like a sidegrade at the end of the day- I mean, yeah, 5++ is neat and all, but just dipping a toe in terrain gets you a cover save, too. And those S10 guns can solve a lot of problems that are otherwise immune to Wave Serpents and such.

-I much prefer Shadow Weavers to the other artillery batteries; it's cheap as chips, quite tough, and has good range, plus it can hurt almost anything in the game bar a Land Raider. If gives you a way to punish guys who get disembarked and it can snipe out those solo models hiding behind terrain. The D-Cannon isn't awful or anything, but 24" is just really, really short on a static platform.

-I'm not sure why you're running two HQs. Spiritseer doesn't really seem to be doing anything for you here other than maybe throwing a random Psychic Shriek at something- probably points better-spent elsewhere. You don't need to spend 170pts buffing a 150pts unit, especially when they're purely defensive buffs; if any real unit gets into assault there the unit is probably toast, but with the Wraithknights running around that shouldn't be an issue.

With trimming the above stuff you could easily save yourself 100-200pts, which is enough for some FA units (Spyders, Hawks) or more troops (Serpent, Jetbikes) or swapping some DA to Wraithguard for a bit more close-in firepower. Even as-is, though, it's a pretty tough list just due to Wave Serpents and Wraithknights.

Sykic
Feb 9, 2004

Resist! Humanity demands it! Resist!
One of the first Eldar models I ever saw was the old Fire Prism so maybe I'm just biased because of it, but the new one is just weird looking, like the cannon is twice as long as it needs to be. If I had the patience and talent I'd see what it looks like without the bit between the two crystals.

Hollismason
Jun 30, 2007
An alright dude.

AbusePuppy posted:

The version I actually play is the shooty one, since I don't have all of models to run the Maulerfiends and Friends list. It comes out something like this:

Chaos Lord (either Burning Brand + Lightning Claw + Blade of the Relentless + Daemonheart, riding on Steed)
20-30 Cultists, depending on the size of the game
2-4 x5 Noise Marines, with one Blastmaster and three Sonic Blasters in each squad
1-2 Heldrakes
7 Havocs with four Autocannons (occasionally a few more ablative bodies and/or Veterans of the Long War)
remaining HS slots and points filled with Obliterators of Nurgle (often with VotLW also)
Void Relay Network: 2 Void Shield Generators with maximum shields + Promethium Pipes

That's the one I've settled on most recently, it comes in around 1500-1750 depending. The VSGs shelter the army while it throws out firepower; Heldrakes and the Lord give me some outreach potential. Promethium Pipes are a surprise "gently caress you" for a lot of armies because people forget that Obliterators are Relentless and thus can move up into contact with the Pipes and then throw out a S5 AP4 template up to 12"; Oblits generally serve as my counter-assault units, although depending on the matchup the Lord+Cultists can hold back as well.

It's not amazing, but it functions pretty well and presents some dilemmas for a lot of armies. Drop Pods kick it in the balls fairly hard, though. I converted my own Void Shield Generators using the Vengeance Weapons Battiers, which feel a lot more "right" in size than the absurd GW model; if you don't want to use them, an Imperial Strongpoint (2 Bastions + 1 Aegis Line) could do the job in a pinch.

They're arguably the strongest codex in the game right now, yeah. Whether or not people hate playing them depends somewhat on the units- while there's some good stuff scattered throughout the book, the majority of its power level rests with a handful of units and abilities, so if you don't take them people will have very little room to complain. Specifically, the Wave Serpent with Scatter Lasers and Jetseer Council (2 Farseers + 10 Warlorks, all on bikes) are both amazingly stupid-powerful; avoid them and you should mostly be fine.


All the Inquisitional stuff and assassins are gone, as best we can tell; Psybolt Ammo is also gone, a number of small point shifts in various units. Librarians are down to 100pts, Terminators are 33pts, Paladins are ~65pts; a lot of the melee weapon prices dropped slightly, but Termies/Paladins apparently no longer get them for free. No more FoC-swaps with characters. Draigo is cheaper and a Lord of War. Relics: Bone Shard of Solor, The fury of Deimos, Cuirass of Sacrifice, The Soul Glaive, Domina Liber Daemonica. Dreadknight Teleporter is a lot cheaper.

So basically the army I used to run is completely and totally nonviable, because everything that made it function was gutted. Goddamnit, GW.


Man, using a cyber-mastiff as an objective? That's some heresy, son!

Seems like it would be relatively-easy to mark a numeral onto your current ones somewhere (on a shoulder pad, on the flag somewhere, etc) if you wanted to keep using them. But that aside, having a 1-6 on them for Maelstrom is the main thing you'd want.


Hmm. I... I kinda think I see what you're trying to do here, but to be perfectly frank it feels like a bit of a mess. You have some good ideas going- the "psychic shriek-a-thon" is pretty brutal against a lot of people, especially Orks and Marines, but there's also other stuff I don't understand what you're trying to do with it. The Murder Pack is cool, but it doesn't fit with the rest of your stuff at all; likewise, you aren't really generating that many psychic dice but are trying to cast a lot of big spells and a bunch of stuff is slated to go into reserve, denying you those dice for several turns. You've just got a lot of points sunk into really weird places, basically, and I'm not really sure where to take the list. Do you want to do psychic shenanigans? CSM + Daemons are absolutely capable of that and you can even go Slaanesh-themed really easily. Do you wanna do crazy walker madness? That's also a possibility, but the entry price there is not cheap- if you're gonna do it, I think you need to dedicate the list to it. You even could casually toss in some of the stuff you have in a "normal" list pretty easily without crippling it, but I feel like you're reaching for too many gimmicks here and ending up not supporting any of them well.

So I guess my question for you is: what do you want to be the focus of things? There's lots going on here, and I think the best way to improve it is to trim the fat, so to speak, and make it a bit more concerted in its efforts.

-I usually go with the chin Cannon on my Serpents; 10pts for +1 shot, +2 Str, +12" range is a really good deal even if you happen to be snapfiring every turn. And if you don't wanna use the Shield for some reason, it gives you a second weapon to shoot with.

-I don't like the Suncannon WK. It's just too many points for what feels like a sidegrade at the end of the day- I mean, yeah, 5++ is neat and all, but just dipping a toe in terrain gets you a cover save, too. And those S10 guns can solve a lot of problems that are otherwise immune to Wave Serpents and such.

-I much prefer Shadow Weavers to the other artillery batteries; it's cheap as chips, quite tough, and has good range, plus it can hurt almost anything in the game bar a Land Raider. If gives you a way to punish guys who get disembarked and it can snipe out those solo models hiding behind terrain. The D-Cannon isn't awful or anything, but 24" is just really, really short on a static platform.

-I'm not sure why you're running two HQs. Spiritseer doesn't really seem to be doing anything for you here other than maybe throwing a random Psychic Shriek at something- probably points better-spent elsewhere. You don't need to spend 170pts buffing a 150pts unit, especially when they're purely defensive buffs; if any real unit gets into assault there the unit is probably toast, but with the Wraithknights running around that shouldn't be an issue.

With trimming the above stuff you could easily save yourself 100-200pts, which is enough for some FA units (Spyders, Hawks) or more troops (Serpent, Jetbikes) or swapping some DA to Wraithguard for a bit more close-in firepower. Even as-is, though, it's a pretty tough list just due to Wave Serpents and Wraithknights.


Yeah there's a list in there somewhere an I think I am trying to do to much at the same time with it and I need to focus the list

I want to have

the Murder Pack and 5 Walkers as they are boss which would leave over 1200 points for Seekers, and Slaanesh and Invisibile stuff.

I think I need to drop the Obliterators as well.

The theme is Psychic Scream, Plus have Mauler Fiends and the Murder Pack for huge threats.


Like

Belakor
Chaos Sorcerer w/ Spell Familiar Level 3 , Dark Glory
2 Chaos Troops
3 Maulerfiends

1 Murder Pack 500

The rest as many Slaanesh troops and heralds with Psychic Scream as I can get.
4 Heralds of Slaanesh

Hollismason fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Aug 10, 2014

Cataphract
Sep 10, 2004

Fun Shoe

HiveCommander posted:

What digital mistake did I miss, and are there any juicy details about GKs that you discovered?

GW accidentally put the army builder for GK in the digital SW codex. Details are above. SO we know what units will be in the book and points costs but don't really know any more on rule changes or specifics.

Cataphract fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Aug 10, 2014

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012
The thing is, DE are not even much faster than everyone else at this point. Every vehicle can turbo-boost n extra 6 in this edition. Lowly ork Trukks can zoom a full 24" if they feel like it. Vanilla eldar and Tau are just as fast and way more durable.

Their jetbikes are faster than the nom, but no longer being able to move 12 inches in a Raider, run and thencharge with fleet made assault (or even medium-range shooting) suicidal. Thel longest-range DE guns fire 36 inches, leaving them well within range of multilasers, autocannons, and even heavy bolters that ill happily slag up your rides. At least they don't blow up as much anymore: mass S4 hits on your frail dudes was just... murdeous.

DE would need either better armor saves (which steal a bit of their flavor) or ways to avoid overwatch to be able to get in close again. Template weapons would also help, as would some vaiation of darklight weapons. Perhaps something like they did with the railgun? S8 lances regular, and a heavy darklight cannon for Ravagers that is S9-10 or fires from waaay farther away.

ANAmal.net
Mar 2, 2002


100% digital native web developer

Lord Hypnostache posted:

Let's talk about Objective Markers!


Here's the stuff I've been using as objective markers. I think objective markers are a great additional way to add narrative to the games and thematic markers are always million times better than generic coins with numbers.

Unfortunately with the new edition, these markers have become obsolete, since they don't have numbers for Maelstrom missions. So I've been thinking of making new ones. I have more space marine backpack banners than I'm going to use, so I was thinking of building markers from them. I haven't quite gotten the handle of the new rules yet, but how does that sound? Would it work? Do markers nowadays require anything beyond a number from 1 to 6?

These are cool, and good on you for making custom models for your objectives. I love that poo poo and like you said, it's one of the little things that adds a lot to a game.

I was in the same boat, and all I did with mine was a) build a sixth objective, and b) paint the numbers on the side of the base:



(the Battle for Macgragge dude is the new one)

They're supposed to be deep strike mishaps that matched my Blood Ravens army - doesn't make a ton of sense now that I'm running Dark Angels, but whatever, five dead Terminators and a bucket of gene seed or whatever, seems like pretty good objectives.

Slimnoid
Sep 6, 2012

Does that mean I don't get the job?
Orks? Orks.







Warboss on Gazbag’s Blitzbike, wielding Headwoppa’s Killchoppa. Still gotta do his base because he tips over a lot.









Warbuggies using dollar store 4x4s, nobz, and a bunch of bits. I still got two more to make, but it's been fairly fun so far.

Ignite Memories
Feb 27, 2005

You should slap a few plasticard metal plates and rivets on there, they're looking pretty clean even for looted vehicles IMO. That blitzbike looks great, though. Is it possible for him to take that choppa and bike at the same time? I thought it wasn't.

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Slimnoid
Sep 6, 2012

Does that mean I don't get the job?

Ignite Memories posted:

You should slap a few plasticard metal plates and rivets on there, they're looking pretty clean even for looted vehicles IMO. That blitzbike looks great, though. Is it possible for him to take that choppa and bike at the same time? I thought it wasn't.

I'm not quite done with them yet, I still gotta orkify them up more.

And you're right, he can only take one of each. But then again my customer asked me to do it. Guess I'll have to tell him that :toot:

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