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Rabhadh posted:The real key thing with the gladius was how its hilt was formed to be comfortable in the hand. The Greek straight sword, the xiphos, has a quite similar blade shape and length but its hilt has this cross guard that smacks against the hand and fingers when you stab with it. The gladius hispaniensis has this hilt formed for maximum comfort when stabbing, instead of a cross guard they have this rounded stop that fits snugly between your thumb and forefinger, and a nice big round pommel. The blades really don't come into it much, its all about the hilt shape encouraging different types of use. This is pretty interesting to me, it's strange how the Greek's would prefer that sort of crossguard with penchant for close formations The chopping sword i was referring to is the kopis, which is naturally shaped towards a chopping motion. It's got a big broad head with a single edge, so I think it'd be a little awkward to stab somebody with that.
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Oct 18, 2013 19:20
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:so I think it'd be a little awkward to stab somebody with that. Nothing a little determination can't fix.  (it was still a pointed weapon and could thrust just fine if one wanted to)
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Oct 18, 2013 19:24
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On the OP, Koramei asked for opening strategies for some factions. While the majority of factions have a similar mid- and endgame, which is basically "roll your opponents up with better units", they may have different opening moves to maximize your ability to survive and win. I am currently focusing on the Barbarians, and have beat the game militarily and economically with the Iceni and Arverni, respectively, and am now gunning for a culture victory with the Suebi. How to best take advantage of these three woefully under-rostered factions? Read on! General Barbarian Tips The first thing to learn about the Barbarians is that food is not an issue. Their agricultural buildings provide industry, research, and food, so you'll want to use the green chain of buildings in every province you own, excepting perhaps a fully-militarized province with one horse-oriented building. Researching clay pot-making buildings and whatever faction-specific technology unlocks Loremaster's Huts should be a priority after you've expanded a bit. The clay pot buildings provide 100 talents for agricultural bonuses at level 2, and as research is tied to farming for the Barbarians, you can slowly and steadily improve your research speed by putting down little druidic circles everywhere. Should you want for food with no downsides at all, every Barbarian faction has the Well chain of buildings, which not only give food with no downsides but also improve the economy of every agricultural building in the province. The red chain of buildings for the Barbarians is a money-maker and their military chain. However, you shouldn't rely on the red buildings for the bulk of your cash. That's where the agriculture and your amphora-making empire rolls in. Since the roster for the Barbarian units is so lacking you don't have to pump red buildings to maximum level to obtain the best units they can get. The yellow chain of buildings is of great importance for Barbarians, or at least two of them: the Tavern chain, and the Chieftain's Hall chain. Each Barbarian faction has one or two units tied specifically to these two public order-providing buildings, e.g. Naked Warriors for the Arverni with level 3 taverns. To keep everyone happy you'll want two of these at every provincial capital you own. The purple chain of buildings is the Barbarians' religious chain. You can, for the most part, ignore these if you aren't upgrading buildings too high, but some religious buildings offer great public order bonuses for a modest food fee or give bonuses without downsides.  ArverniThe Arverni aren't a bad faction, all things considered. They have the best cavalry of the Barbarians with their Noble Horses, which they can obtain relatively early, and their Oathsworn swordsmen are walking beasts capable of standing toe-to-toe with Roman legions. They have good skirmishers and decent slingers, but their true value is their cavalry. They begin in modern-day France, and to their great advantage, many settlements are within easy striking range without having to use Forced March to get around. They get Savage Dogs under the yellow slave building, if you're after dogs, but like the other Barbarians, they get extra units under the yellow building chain of taverns and chieftain's holds. Check the blacksmith and bronze working chains for your standard sword and spear units. To open as the Arverni, try to consolidate Aquitania, Celtica, and Provincia before making forays into Germanic and Spanish territory. Don't pick a fight with Rome unless you see they're being picked apart or until you have good infantry and cavalry. If you're gunning for an economic victory like I did with the Arverni, leaving the factions in the British Islands and Spanish peninsula alone can be a good idea so you can sign trade agreements with them.  SuebiOh, Suebi. The Germans are the toughest Barbarian tribe to use because their roster has so many spearmen, and they're not particularly good at them, either. They do get longbowmen, but with slingers dominating the field, these archers don't have a chance to shine. They do get some decent swordsmen and Berserkers later on, but for a long time you'll have to rely on your spearmen to get things done. Lastly, their Germanic culture isn't nearly as pervasive as the Celtic culture, meaning you'll need to some dignitaries to convert lands to your side faster. The Suebi have a rocky start, being surrounded by so many potential enemies, but at least are immune to cold, meaning attrition in northern lands won't bother them. As a minor concession, they also get a morale bonus when fighting against other Barbarian cultures. To open as the Suebi, kill off the Boii under you, and consolidate Suebia, Hercynia, and Silesia. Work on Hercynia first, then Silesia, and finally Suebia. After you do that, feel free to expand westward against the other Barbarian tribes to add more land and get the advantage of your faction bonus, or south and east against the Greeks and Nomads. However, if you go toe-to-toe with the major powers be sure to upgrade your units to another tier, at least. German levies, like the other Barbarian levies, are trash against organized Romans and Greeks. As a final note, the Suebi also have the easiest culture victory requirements of the three Barbarians, needing 40 provinces with a majority culture rather than 50.  IceniOut of the three Barbarian factions, and indeed most others in the game, the Iceni have an easy start and are a good beginning Barbarian faction. They start in Britannia and are isolated from the conflicts in the mainland, meaning you can focus on carving your little proto-British empire before turning your eyes to lands across the channel. They have excellent infantry and good slingers, but their unique chariots are, sadly, not as good as they seem to be. They can field Druidic Nobles from the third level of the agricultural research buildings, if you want morale-boosting infantry. To open as the Iceni, pursue an aggressive stance against your fellow islanders. Conquer the entirety of the British Isles, then begin marauding in Europe. Military is how I went after a win with the Iceni, as they have some far-flung provinces they need to capture entirely, and their infantry is some of the finest around for Barbarians. Their faction-specific powers also make Iceni units better at morale and charging. As a bonus, Soviet_Russia asked me last thread to post a video detailing a Battle of Teutoburg walkthrough to save the eagles. Here it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c2q17xuT0g
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Oct 18, 2013 19:37
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Does ranged warfare still revolve around slingers or are other units more viable now? I never got very far into my campaigns but it seemed like I could win every battle as long as I had a ton of slingers. Also, it seemed like the enemy AI used them exclusively, too. I used to love watching archers rain death on people in Shogun II, and it's just not the same when it's a bunch of dudes hurling rocks.
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Oct 18, 2013 19:57
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Holy crap do the Seleucids ever look stacked, they get top grade pikes, spearmen, cavalry, ranged, elephants and chariots as well as really good melee infantry?! Why would I want to play as anyone else? The only problem is I know a Seleucid campaign would be pretty easy so I'm going to need some mods to increase the challenge. I'm going to use Mazz's mod that gives all AI factions bonus food but how can I go about giving them bonus income? In the earlier thread somebody said giving major factions a flat bonus of 1500 to their income really helped them expand in the early campaign. Furthermore I think it would be a good idea to make a mod that reduces research time by 30-40% as I currently find that the game is over before I obtain tier 4 technology. The mod that halves the victory conditions looks like a good idea but I don't really care that much about the main objective.
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Oct 18, 2013 20:06
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Shonuff posted:Does ranged warfare still revolve around slingers or are other units more viable now? I never got very far into my campaigns but it seemed like I could win every battle as long as I had a ton of slingers. Also, it seemed like the enemy AI used them exclusively, too. Everyone has this sort of biblical idea that slings were only used for hurling rocks from the roadside, but military slingers with solid lead bullets were widespread in this time period. "The best ammunition was cast from lead. Leaden sling-bullets were widely used in the Greek and Roman world. For a given mass, lead, being very dense, offers the minimum size and therefore minimum air resistance. In addition, leaden sling-bullets are small and difficult to see in flight." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35KJo9BNpb0 VVVVVVVVV in my campaigns I usually bring 4 ranged units in a full stack, and maybe 2 mounted ranged units depending on composition and upgrades. currently playing Macedon and 2 Peltasts and 2 Slingers has been pretty effective. Pyronic fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Oct 18, 2013 |
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Oct 18, 2013 20:07
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On a similar note, what's the ideal mix (if there is such a thing) of ranged to melee units? I'm sure it depends on the faction (and the enemy) but is there a ballpark ratio or rule of thumb? I've been rolling as Rome and I just feel dirty training anything that isn't a Legionary.
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Oct 18, 2013 20:09
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Ainsley McTree posted:On a similar note, what's the ideal mix (if there is such a thing) of ranged to melee units? I'm sure it depends on the faction (and the enemy) but is there a ballpark ratio or rule of thumb? For Rome I run 7-9 heavy inf, 4 aux cav, 4 dogs, 2 regular ballista (don't have to build an extra workshop this way, they work well enough), 2-3 ranged. You can start with Velites but its really nice to get Belearic/Rhodian/Cretan in there when you can. I usually run my general as infantry now that they fixed the dying problem, Rome's B+G are pretty weak cav. The dogs always lead, they can kill off 2x their number in skirmishers before the lines meet and ruin unwalled garrisons. As long as the handlers live they take no persistant unit damage. The cav to cover my flanks, kill all the god drat leftover slingers/skirmishes, and to be the hammer. The infantry to set the line and the ranged to work any angle they can get throughout the battle. You can totally replace the slingers with more ballistas or dogs and not even notice them missing, but note that your civil war opponents will have a shitload of ballistas if you do, and 4-6 of those against you will trash your armies pretty bad. Picture of my exact army comp from the old thread, that general is a champ so I haven't swapped him to Praetorians yet (I moved the unit tree around in my mods) Mazz fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Oct 18, 2013 |
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Oct 18, 2013 20:18
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Pyronic posted:Everyone has this sort of biblical idea that slings were only used for hurling rocks from the roadside, but military slingers with solid lead bullets were widespread in this time period. The hurling rocks thing is just me venting, because slingers look so ... uncool.
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Oct 18, 2013 20:22
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Shonuff posted:The hurling rocks thing is just me venting, because slingers look so ... uncool. You don't think that guy looks cool? 
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Oct 18, 2013 20:26
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SHISHKABOB posted:You don't think that guy looks cool? Actually, if someone could mod in slingers with trench coats, camo pants, and Lynyrd Skynyrd hairdos, I wouldn't complain.
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Oct 18, 2013 20:31
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Patch Notes posted:Added option to game settings menu to enable/disable aide de camp (Battlefield Advisor), so the player can now disable this panel from ever appearing. Best change all changes. I don't have to deal with that dumbass popping up in the top corner, looking horrible at me.
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Oct 18, 2013 21:02
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:This is pretty interesting to me, it's strange how the Greek's would prefer that sort of crossguard with penchant for close formations I actually totally forgot about the kopis there and was only thinking about the xiphos. Apparently the kopis is a pretty good stabber though.
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Oct 18, 2013 21:16
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I find that ranged units are far less necessary in single player than they are in multiplayer, mostly because the enemy AI isn't very good at kiting or covering their ranged units (I also learned this by getting my rear end kicked at Fight Club last week). Once I got 2 ballistas in my army the enemy stopped the skirmish phase altogether, even if they had way more ranged units than me, and just rush into melee. At maximum I currently use 2 ballistas + 2 slingers + 1 peltast
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Oct 18, 2013 21:23
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Slingers are pretty important in the early game because the infantry options you have available are about as durable as toilet paper, so you need that extra damage to push fights into your favor. But once the morale bonuses start building up and you get some infantry with good armor, you can dispense with the ranged and be all stabby, all the time.
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Oct 18, 2013 21:29
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Wow. So Seleucids just get great units of almost every type. Amazing pikes, great spear infantry, great sword infantry(royal peltasts included), the better elephants, amazing cav(one of them even has charge defense expert which will be amazing vs other cav), and even chariots to boot! the only thing they seem to lack is elite skirmishers but they have a ton of high-mid range ones. E:Looks like javelins got a buff. Eastern javelinmen and pontic peltasts are up to 40 damage(6 ap). With their precision shot, that brings them up to 48 damage. They could really do a number on some guys quick with damage like that. LemonAIDS fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Oct 18, 2013 |
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Oct 18, 2013 21:31
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xzzy posted:Slingers are pretty important in the early game because the infantry options you have available are about as durable as toilet paper, so you need that extra damage to push fights into your favor. Good to know, thanks.
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Oct 18, 2013 21:48
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Petah posted:Holy crap do the Seleucids ever look stacked, they get top grade pikes, spearmen, cavalry, ranged, elephants and chariots as well as really good melee infantry?! Why would I want to play as anyone else? Tech time is simple I think. You go to the technologies.table and change the values in the research.points.required column. Money is marginally more difficult, This lil mod here is a functional template I guess, mostly because I've no clue how to properly explain it. It adds hidden, but taxable, income to the faction capitals of all the listed factions, player or otherwise. The format for the first column is rom_faction_trait_Group_Faction. Group is whatever they're listed as on the new campaign screen, which is derived either from the esf or a db table I can't recall, Faction is the particular faction from that group, for rome/carthage, it is the family, for every other it is the faction name as it appears in the game. Entries with just a group specified apply the bonus to every faction in that group, and they are additive.
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Oct 18, 2013 22:44
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GrabbinPeels posted:Best change all changes. I don't have to deal with that dumbass popping up in the top corner, looking horrible at me. loving finally. Please tell me this means that you can hear the adviser without having see the adviser. If the only options are to have both or neither then they've really gone full retard. If reinforcements are coming in or my general just got killed that is in fact information I want to hear. I just don't want to have that rear end in a top hat's ugly mug popping up in the corner to tell me about his. Voice communication alone is sufficient god damnit. Meme Poker Party fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Oct 18, 2013 |
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Oct 18, 2013 22:46
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The Selucids don't really seem to have a great mid-range sword infantry unit. Which is about the only thing that they don't have, and is hardly a unique "weakness."
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Oct 18, 2013 22:49
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Like Egypt, they also don't have any early-game phalanx-capable hoplites. Unlike Egypt, they do get Shield Bearers later on (or as a general unit).
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Oct 18, 2013 23:24
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I'm not really sure that that's an incredibly notable weakness for either faction in the campaign though. The only thing hoplites seems especially good at is shoring up the flanks of your pike formations vs. cavalry, and that is a fairly limited need that can be met by other means.
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Oct 18, 2013 23:36
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Holy crap my Parthia campaign lasted exactly until the first battle...I don't think there's anything more rage-inducing than trying to herd a full stack of horse archers with that broken-rear end skirmish mode turned on 
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Oct 18, 2013 23:54
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So couple things to note from playing as the Seleucids: - On turn 1, I could get trade agreements with every single faction neutral or friendly towards and they would pay 1000-1500 gold for the privilage, ended up with a extra 1000 gold per turn and 7200 starting cash. - The faction you started at war with immediately asked for peace on turn 2 and offered me 5000 more coin. - Carthage can decimate entire garrisons with a single elephant general, Seleucids can get armored elephant generals with 300 more HP and better stats, they have a dozen different general types but I can't bring myself to use anything besides armored elephants. - 20 HP seems oddly low for a pikeman unit. - they start with access to up to 9 armies, and their navy is pretty kickass too with Royal Peltast or Syrian Archers as the general unit, I took a coastal walled city with just the general and 3 peltast landing inside the port and the rest providing supporting fire. Doesn't seem like you'd want to play vanilla Seleucids if you want a challenge.
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Oct 19, 2013 00:05
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At least the Seleucids should provide a late game challenge for my Roman Empire then, good to hear.
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Oct 19, 2013 00:07
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So you're saying that Seleucids are good for a Legendary playthrough? I just figured out their general choices. Armored elephants 
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Oct 19, 2013 00:10
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I really wish I'd bothered grabbing elephant generals rather than companion cav, expecting it to be easy. Turn 8: All eastern satraps break away and declare war, which dropped me to barely 1k income. Turn 9: Sotor gets assassinated. Turn 11: Civil war. 
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Oct 19, 2013 00:16
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Selucids have rear end for early game units. You need to bunker down for a while until you get anything decent. Well maybe Eastern slingers are ok.
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Oct 19, 2013 00:24
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Zabet posted:I really wish I'd bothered grabbing elephant generals rather than companion cav, expecting it to be easy. Turn 8: All eastern satraps break away and declare war, which dropped me to barely 1k income. Turn 9: Sotor gets assassinated. Turn 11: Civil war. Haha turn 11 what?
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Oct 19, 2013 00:26
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VanSandman posted:Haha turn 11 what? All the satrapies bring you well into lvl 2 Imperium, which is when the civil war can start, so...
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Oct 19, 2013 00:31
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VanSandman posted:Haha turn 11 what? I'm guessing a combination of influence tanking because the king died and losing a third of my provinces had something to do with it. Or it was a bug. But I'm going to choose to believe they did this on purpose so that the Selucids wouldn't be easier than Rome.
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Oct 19, 2013 00:32
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NihilVerumNisiMors posted:
This sounds like you can make some interesting changes to the gameplay with ranged units. It's really irritating to see them adding this feature in patch 5 when it really sounds like something they could have messed around with in development.
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Oct 19, 2013 01:21
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Tiger Shark posted:This sounds like you can make some interesting changes to the gameplay with ranged units. It's really irritating to see them adding this feature in patch 5 when it really sounds like something they could have messed around with in development. Were you under the impression we were out of late beta? And I'm saying that as someone who is ok with the game as it is.
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Oct 19, 2013 01:29
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Zabet posted:I really wish I'd bothered grabbing elephant generals rather than companion cav, expecting it to be easy. Turn 8: All eastern satraps break away and declare war, which dropped me to barely 1k income. Turn 9: Sotor gets assassinated. Turn 11: Civil war.
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Oct 19, 2013 01:37
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Yeah, I have been having nothing but trouble with the Seleucid start. Three turns in the eastern satrapies declare war, Egypt likes to declare war around the same time, the entirety of Anatolia loves to beat the gently caress out of Sardes, forcing you to either get involved in another loving war or abandon a satrap (and the associated income), and loving people break trade agreements all over the place. The entire area just loving hates your guts, and you're at war with the entirety of the eastern half of the loving map from the earliest stage. On top of that, your unit selection early on is just absolute rear end. The only other start that can compare is Carthage, and at least it keeps its loving clients, unlike the Seleucids where most of them tell you to go gently caress yourself. It seems Media is the only one that sticks around, and they have a tendency to break off eventually regardless. So you're just in a forever war with about a dozen other factions, you can't secure your southern border because Egypt hates you forever, and your north/northwest borders are either Egyptian satraps or people that want you dead. It's like a giant game of smear the queer, and you're the dude obsessing over fabric.
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Oct 19, 2013 01:42
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I feel like with all these horror stories of empires gone wrong are the result of bad decisions snowballing into worse, on my Seleucid game I took all the money and trade agreements from every possible neighbor then started recruiting a navy and army to march south to egypt, completing every starting objective which all seem to involve kicking egypts rear end. By turn 3 I had Jerusalem and my navy took out Cypress's two cities by itself, it helps to have some extra generals behind your main army to act as backup in a real fight or to recruit troops as your main army moves. Don't be afraid to replace your starting generals on the first turn to get a new bodyguard unit, even if you need to take a extra turn to get the same general back for 0 cost, your doing something wrong if a elephant or cataphract general can't take on egyptian infantry. Ra Ra Rasputin fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Oct 19, 2013 |
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Oct 19, 2013 01:53
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Well if it's Egyptian Infantry you're facing I'm not sure it matters what the general unit is. Those dudes are the saddest sacks ever.
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Oct 19, 2013 02:07
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As Seleucia, what I've had success with is getting as many trade agreements as you can, then declaring war on Egypt, all on turn one. It is quite possible to get all Hellenic factions in Turkey to agree to at least a defensive alliance. I used the trade money to bribe the nearest satrapies to the East into liking me, and let the further ones go if they looked like trouble. Also I gotta say I'm loving the huge number of UI improvements. There is SO MUCH info on the diplomacy screen if you just click around - you can see what every faction thinks of everyone else if you just click on them, for example. It's great and I love it.
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Oct 19, 2013 02:55
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Fight Club is happening! Link is below. Stream will be up momentarily, enjoy the music for a bit while everyone joins in. If you've never played Total War mutliplayer before this is a great place to start! https://www.twitch.tv/chompsgaming
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Oct 19, 2013 02:57
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 10:22 |
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Oh hey I re-did my mod so it's compatible with patch 5. I'll post it here and on the workshop soon.
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Oct 19, 2013 03:10
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