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Dexo posted:Eh. Sylar's not coming back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk_wDY-cAlM
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Dec 22, 2014 20:26
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Aphrodite posted:Trying to keep Sylar relevant is one of the bad parts as it went on. That's why I said despite the bad scripts.
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Dec 22, 2014 20:32
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Aphrodite posted:Heroes: Deadpool Corps I have no idea what you're talking about. Nothing like that exists. Nothing at all.
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Dec 22, 2014 22:59
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Hakkesshu posted:I honestly feel like TV in general has come a long way since Heroes originally aired, so I can see them doing a much better job the second time around when they aren't the only superpowered show in town. And their competition is actually putting out good poo poo so they pretty much have to as well in order to be remotely successful. This post is what broken dreams are made of.
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Dec 23, 2014 00:21
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The first season and part of season two were good. I want to believe this could be watchable, but that last couple seasons were Dexter-bad. Some of the worst television I've ever suffered through. The poster above was right, they probably should have dropped the IP and started fresh. It's too severely tarnished by all that godawful circus crap. If the first season was just sorta ok I'd probably have been better with it's decline and even might have enjoyed hate-watching it like Sons of Anarchy. But it squandered such a promising start.
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Dec 23, 2014 01:20
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Dexo posted:Like Zachary Quinto, made that character better than it had any right to be, and continued to be the best part even when given absolute poo poo scripts to work with. BGrifter posted:It's too severely tarnished by all that godawful circus crap.
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Dec 23, 2014 02:49
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Tiggum posted:Ugh, I'd totally forgotten about the circus. Even T-Bag couldn't save it.
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Dec 23, 2014 03:28
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I remember one episode ended with Noah having a sniper rifle trained on Sylar and the next episode immediately began with Noah kicking down the door holding a pistol
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Dec 23, 2014 07:33
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Quinto being such a good actor is probably what caused Sylar to linger around like such a bad fart through most of the series. Everything about his character in Season 1 seemed to indicate that he was the villain of THAT storyline and was never meant to be carried forward after that. Season 1 was really beautifully arranged, and it was so obvious that the last episode was supposed to be this climax where all the assorted "heroes" finally arrived in the same place (due to time fuckery by Peter and Hiro) at the same time in order to overwhelm and kill Sylar in the last few moments where he would still be vulnerable...and I still have no clue what happened in that finale. There must have been some last minute re-writes, because it looked so goddamn tight up to that point. EDIT: Like, it's obvious that they realised they had a star on their hands, but it really ruined the show to keep him around like that.
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Dec 23, 2014 12:06
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Tomahawk posted:This post is what broken dreams are made of. Not really. If this turns out to be terrible, so what. There are other good shows out there. My point is, TV in general is a lot better these days, so they can't just coast on being a superhero show because no one is going to care about a bad one. I imagine they will try this time because otherwise what's the point Hakkesshu fucked around with this message at 12:44 on Dec 23, 2014 |
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Dec 23, 2014 12:11
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The scene with future Peter and Hiro killing dudes while climbing through a tower like a video game was really cool, but it got killed with the unbelievably anticlimactic conclusion to the ultimate fight. Adam Monroe was interesting too. The fact that someone had been alive with superpowers since 300+ years ago was cool. However, the really consistently good scenes were HRG and The Haitian together catching rogue superpowers people.
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Dec 24, 2014 18:33
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DrBouvenstein posted:I still do like the first season, the Nikki/Micah/DL poo poo excluded. "He got better." 
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Dec 25, 2014 03:45
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The thing I never liked about Heroes was the reveal that people have had superpowers throughout history but nobody knows about it because for some reason every single time someone gets powers they hide them. It worked a lot better back in the beginning of the first season when they let you think it was a new thing. Remember how the characters all got their powers from the eclipse, except they didn't and some had them all along? Then in a later season everyone lost their powers during another eclipse? And how neither event was every explained at all? Or the broken helix symbol that showed up everywhere in the first season that they also never really explained, other than it was the logo of a company that Papa Petrelli ran.
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Dec 25, 2014 04:19
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muscles like this? posted:The thing I never liked about Heroes was the reveal that people have had superpowers throughout history but nobody knows about it because for some reason every single time someone gets powers they hide them. It worked a lot better back in the beginning of the first season when they let you think it was a new thing. This was the typical "comic book" mentality the writers had. They thought they could make it up as they went along. So they'd introduce something with no clear plan but make you think that there was an endgame to that character/plot point. Then when they finally decided what to do with it, the result was often disjointed and lackluster. And I'd wager that actual comic books aren't done this way, it's more a cargo cult "this is how comics work right?"  way of thinking by the writers. I remember when the big reveal came out that the show had no arc and they had no idea what was going to happen 5 episodes out in the writers room it was shocking, but it made perfect sense with what we'd seen. "Oh ok, that's why it was a train wreck."
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Dec 25, 2014 04:35
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Any word on which car company will be prominently featured in this incarnation?
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Dec 25, 2014 06:25
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I liked season 1 for the same reasons as everyone else, and I kind of liked season 4 because it told a smaller, more personal story. Rapey guy from Prison Break deals with power and responsibility and lusts after Ellen Tigh, deaf cellist projects lasers or something, I don't know, and Claire's big decision to reveal her powers to the world. It wasn't completely successful, but it was refreshing after the serial apocalypses and conspiracies of seasons 1-3. Or maybe I'm completely misremembering it. That happens a lot with Heroes.
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Dec 25, 2014 16:51
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Season four was actually fine and decent. Not great, but had a holding-together plot and some decent bits. It was season two, three and parts of one that were really cataclysmically bad.
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Dec 26, 2014 00:23
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Android Blues posted:Season four was actually fine and decent. Not great, but had a holding-together plot and some decent bits. It was season two, three and parts of one that were really cataclysmically bad. Season one had some rough edges, but they were more a sign of things to come than awful in their own right. I think it's easy to look back and see it as worse by mere association.
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Dec 26, 2014 01:27
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I hate to say it, but Season 1's huge success killed the longevity of the show. Tim Kring wanted to have a different cast for each season, but everyone loved most of the characters from Season 1 so he had to bring them back. It really got ridiculous with how they insisted on not killing off characters when they had clearly run out of things for them to do (Hiro being the most egregious example). Instead they solved their problems with characters losing their powers, or getting new ones, or getting amnesia, which is textbook bad writing. I really have no idea why they thought bringing back four? different versions of Ali Larter's character was a good idea. She's walking cardboard.
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Dec 27, 2014 00:33
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FlamingLiberal posted:Instead they solved their problems with characters losing their powers, or getting new ones, or getting amnesia, which is textbook bad writing. Reminds me of Misfits
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Dec 27, 2014 00:40
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You can blame a lot of the problems on the producers literally making everything up as they went along, since they admitted there was no long-term plan. They retcon their own mythos several times over by the end.
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Dec 27, 2014 00:42
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A big problem was the various writers not working together/actively working against each other. Like how for a season Parkman left his wife to shack up with another powered person but then someone else comes along, kills her off and writes him getting back together with his wife. Or the abortive Claire as nerd fantasy, with a nerd boyfriend and working at a comic shop, another plotline that was quickly dropped.
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Dec 27, 2014 03:04
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muscles like this? posted:A big problem was the various writers not working together/actively working against each other. Like how for a season Parkman left his wife to shack up with another powered person but then someone else comes along, kills her off and writes him getting back together with his wife. Or the abortive Claire as nerd fantasy, with a nerd boyfriend and working at a comic shop, another plotline that was quickly dropped.
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Dec 27, 2014 03:16
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I think they should have done more with Hiro given their sloppy writing. Doctor Who is a fun show in no small part because they will write themselves into corners or have lovely storylines that go nowhere, realize that, and then use time travel to basically say, "Well, that was a terrible idea! But here are some alien explosions and dinosaurs!" It doesn't really make a lot of sense, but "fun" comes first, followed closely by "budget constraints" (if a plotline isn't working, use special effects from a previous plotline that didn't work in a new and fun way!) while keeping "coherency" way, way, way at the back. It's a show about people with superpowers. I don't care if it makes sense as long as it is fun. Heroes was a victim of its own success because they decided "success" was "meaning" so each episode got more and more ponderous. If you are making a superhero show and want to have a character turn into a bug, err on the side of camp not Kafka.
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Dec 27, 2014 06:09
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Hiro's powers would be fine if he was the main character that the show followed around all the time. Then you could do stuff like turn him into a Dr Who knock off. Or they could have had Hiro address the audience through Ando by explaining that yes, his powers could solve most problems but life comes through struggle and trying, not just fixing everything instantly. They could have done an episode at the end of a season revealing that Hiro has actually been working in the background, letting people fix their own problems but correcting things if they got too bad, basically acting like a safety net.
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Dec 27, 2014 13:58
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Valeyard posted:Reminds me of Misfits Any comparison between Misfits and Heroes that doesn't begin and end with "people get super powers" is an insult to Misfits.
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Dec 28, 2014 08:49
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Tiggum posted:Any comparison between Misfits and Heroes that doesn't begin and end with "people get super powers" is an insult to Misfits. I will poo poo on the bed of the bad guy! On the return of heroes, if they're not that bad they will doa great show that we will learn to hate. Juste like the 1st one.
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Dec 28, 2014 13:38
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FlamingLiberal posted:I really have no idea why they thought bringing back four? different versions of Ali Larter's character was a good idea. She's walking cardboard.
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Dec 29, 2014 23:07
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I think the whole "writers trying to undo what the other writers just did" is the best way to describe this series. The whole thing was a goddamn mess. I mean, I still liked it a lot and watched it! It was entertaining, even if it was obviously getting stupid and bad. The last season was okay though, and I liked the deaf woman. She was pretty cool and it was too bad she never really did much. Would have been cool to see her really wreck poo poo with her musical destruction powers.
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Dec 30, 2014 00:11
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I just finished rewatching season four and I still have no idea what Samuel's plan was, or why the cellist was so important to it. Best I can tell, he needed her to lure out the guy who could grow plants so their secret carnival valley could have plants. It's not like he needed her to cause destruction in Central Park. He had earthquake powers. To call people there, I guess, but a mysterious, presumably unlicensed carnival appearing overnight in the middle of New York would probably be enough to gather a crowd.
Inkspot fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Dec 30, 2014 |
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Dec 30, 2014 00:49
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Valeyard posted:So yeah, early on in season 2 and it's not anywhere near as bad as people seem to think. What is the opposite of rose tinted glasses? Season 2 was merely slow, unresolved, and because of the writer's strike.. half-aborted. But it wasn't skin peelingly poo poo outside of everything done with the one family. It introduced some dumb, dumb plot elements but at least they were coherent kind of and.. OK, also all the Highlander-esque Japan stuff was pretty lame too. But Season 3.. Season 3 is where the show proudly declares it will give absolutely no fucks about anything and remains one of the worst seasons of TV in history, but almost spectacularly so. You won't realize JUST how poo poo it is for the first few episodes, because they make it seem like it's going somewhere despite some lame writing... then you find out basically every single thing that happens during the first 4-5 episodes are either plot holes, retcon'ed, or just plain sucks. Favorite constant gently caress-up: What they did with Season 3 Sylar. The way to beat Sylar, you see, is just to go "HEY! I'm family, man!" and offer jack loving poo poo as proof. Then he'll listen to whatever story you give him and even attack the last person who said they were family. Remember when the company just butchered one of their own so he could take a power to read the history of objects, and everyone assumed that's how (in a dumb twist anyway) Sylar of his parentage? But then it turns out nope, that was done for no reason and was never mentioned again, and how the whole plot that spans the entire loving season is actually based on nothing except for the fact the villain is the most gullible character ever written? I won't even go into how they tried to the whole character off as THE HUNNNGER to justify making him a good guy, etc. There's so, so much more. Bringing back Ali Later with a "SURPRISE! Super secret mega triplets!" and then half trying to pretend they ever killed her character in the first place. Building up to a huge showdown during an Eclipse when everyone can make a move without powers then not actually doing anything during it. Or the most awkward thing of loving all: Pairing Parkman with a girl that looks like his daughter and the actors are clearly uncomfortable as gently caress, both of them. All of it makes the "I just want to be normal!" cheerleader whining seem like gold by comparison. And of course there's Mohinder The Fly, Hiro losing his powers loving AGAIN, and more. I could go on. I tried rewatching the first 3 episodes of the 3rd season once, after the plot twists were revealed and found that nearly every single line of dialogue is a plot hole, and I'm not even kidding. And this is talking about a season that opens with a character exclaiming "It's TOO LATE! There's NO TIME!" to a character she is 100% positive can time travel at a whim.. ED: Also I love how "Evil Claire" apparently became evil because... uh.. and it was averted by.. yeah. ..
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Dec 30, 2014 01:12
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Oh, a theory if anyone is doing a rewatch when they get to that episode where HRG convinces Sylar to kill someone for the power to blow stuff up, which was part of his telekinesis and is stupid in it's own right, and Bennett is being a huge fuckhead while established psycho Elle just wants to be nice. Notice how it opens with an invisible man which, again, was another plot hole on timing. Now, given it's a flashback episode, the whole thing seemed painfully loving obvious to me that Bennett was supposed to be in Elle's role, and they were going to get the guy that was the "evil" agent from the end of season 1 to be in Bennett's role, or the guy that played the invisible man for like, two episodes. The whole loving script seems like it was modified at the last second so everyone feels wildly out of character, but it's hard to notice since character consistency lonnnng checked out by then.
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Dec 30, 2014 01:30
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Peter visiting domesticated Sylar and being told about the HUNGER while being served pancakes was great stuff. Better than Peter and Sylar trying to hammer away at a metaphorical but also real brick wall
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Dec 31, 2014 18:39
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Here's some stuff Stephen Tobolowsky said about his time on Heroes; it's pretty hilarious: http://www.avclub.com/article/stephen-tobolowsky-59769 I'd much rather link his podcast, in which he may (or may not) have had even more to say about Heroes, but I'm afraid I don't remember which installment it was in. If anyone wants to find it, the podcast is here (it's a great podcast) As I recall, in the specific episode of the podcast I'm thinking of, he talked about how Heroes nearly literally killed him. Argue fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Dec 31, 2014 |
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Dec 31, 2014 18:48
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I really want to know more about that. He doesn't talk about Heroes nearly killing him in that article, sadly.
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Dec 31, 2014 20:57
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From what I can remember, it had to do with a horseback accident he had. The doctor said he had to keep his neck as still as possible and not turn it a lot, or his neck would break and kill him. Having been informed of this at length, the Heroes crew then kept asking him to do stuff that he really just shouldn't. I don't remember if they actually went forward with filming those or if it only got as far as him refusing to film them. (Incidentally, this is also the same reason Stephen Tobolowsky holds Dan Harmon and Community in high regard; when he told them about it, they wrote around his limitations because they really wanted him to play that guest role and he said it made him feel useful again  )Edit: Oh, that Community tidbit seems to be unrelated to the horseback riding accident; it was a different medical thing that happened years later, which sounds about right timing-wise. Argue fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Jan 1, 2015 |
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Jan 1, 2015 06:14
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I don't understand why we need more Heroes. A better show has already been made. It's called Misfits and it's wonderful.
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Jan 1, 2015 08:16
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Argue posted:From what I can remember, it had to do with a horseback accident he had. The doctor said he had to keep his neck as still as possible and not turn it a lot, or his neck would break and kill him. Having been informed of this at length, the Heroes crew then kept asking him to do stuff that he really just shouldn't. I don't remember if they actually went forward with filming those or if it only got as far as him refusing to film them. From everything I hear, Dan Harmon and the entire Community crew are really stand-up people. Speaks volumes about how insufferable Chevy Chase can be.
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Jan 1, 2015 08:21
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Astroman posted:This was the typical "comic book" mentality the writers had. They thought they could make it up as they went along. So they'd introduce something with no clear plan but make you think that there was an endgame to that character/plot point. Then when they finally decided what to do with it, the result was often disjointed and lackluster. The idea of seeding plot points without knowing exactly how they'll be followed up on is pretty common in TV, and not just in stuff like Lost. For example, the scene at the start of Breaking Bad's 5th season where Walter opens the trunk and reveals an M60 machine gun was written in without the writers knowing how they were going to resolve it.
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Jan 1, 2015 11:21
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Golbez posted:I don't understand why we need more Heroes. A better show has already been made. It's called Misfits and it's wonderful. Is Misfits worth watching past series 3? I felt that was a perfect ending and then like 90% of the cast had left anyway, so I decided to just leave it alone.
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Jan 1, 2015 12:44
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