|
PerrineClostermann posted:The police have no obligation and are beholden to no expectation of keeping you safe. That's just so you can't sue the cops if they fail to keep you safe.
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2016 18:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 00:01 |
|
|
Kilroy posted:The only protest movements in the last however many years I have any respect for are OWS and BLM. BLM scares the poo poo out the establishment and you can see that in the way it's portrayed in the mass media. The elites actually give a poo poo about BLM - of course they're not going to make moves to stop murdering black people, quite the opposite in fact, but they are rather vexed by the prospect of a renewed black nationalism. This is good. Occupy wall Street terrified enough people that there was a nationwide FBI effort to destroy it, a deliberate media blackout, and direct police effort to silence it. It was very effective. If it wasn't it would have just been ignored.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2016 18:35
|
|
Still, good stuff can be traced back to OWS even if the movement itself fizzled.
|
I would protest a coup , a bad trade deal, or a specific policy that would negativly affect me or my family in a significant way.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2016 19:29
|
|
|
Stultus Maximus posted:Legally, no. I dunno. That seemed like the point being made with the comment regarding paying police and not getting protected.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2016 20:18
|
|
|
PerrineClostermann posted:I dunno. That seemed like the point being made with the comment regarding paying police and not getting protected. The police and their defenders talk nonstop about how heroic the police are for "putting their lives on the line to protect you" when in fact they frequently don't. Which is why I used the word "supposedly."
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2016 20:59
|
|
|
Stultus Maximus posted:The police and their defenders talk nonstop about how heroic the police are for "putting their lives on the line to protect you" when in fact they frequently don't. Which is why I used the word "supposedly." A police officer dying is newsworthy because it doesn't happen often at all. Police aren't even in the top ten of dangerous jobs. Neither is the military.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2016 21:33
|
|
|
Alien overlords* *Offer not valid if they are those "real hot alien chicks in pvc"
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2016 21:50
|
|
|
Stultus Maximus posted:The police and their defenders talk nonstop about how heroic the police are for "putting their lives on the line to protect you" when in fact they frequently don't. Which is why I used the word "supposedly."
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2016 22:00
|
|
|
Honestly looking at the BLM movement and how it was roundly dismissed as "domestic terrorists", looking at the organized response to OWS, I wouldn't protest in the streets. With goddamn warrantless wiretapping, massive domestic surveillance, I'd go straight into that stuff we aren't allowed to talk about on here. gently caress some "protesting in the streets". If "they" are doing bad enough stuff that I'd feel the need to protest about it, "they" are happy to see guys that look like "them" stupid enough to self-identify as Liberal Socialist Terrorist Sympathizer Yankee Agitator. In video games you have radar that shows you where the enemies are, they all have red arrows over their heads so you know how to shoot at? How loving stupid would I have to be to give those video game advantages to real enemies in real life? You wanna make a difference? Sign a hundred black guys up to the Second Amendment Foundation. Hell, sign them up to the NRA if they can hold their noses long enough.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2016 23:54
|
|
|
scuba school sucks posted:Honestly looking at the BLM movement and how it was roundly dismissed as "domestic terrorists", looking at the organized response to OWS, I wouldn't protest in the streets. With goddamn warrantless wiretapping, massive domestic surveillance, I'd go straight into that stuff we aren't allowed to talk about on here.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:03
|
|
|
scuba school sucks posted:Honestly looking at the BLM movement and how it was roundly dismissed as "domestic terrorists", looking at the organized response to OWS, I wouldn't protest in the streets. With goddamn warrantless wiretapping, massive domestic surveillance, I'd go straight into that stuff we aren't allowed to talk about on here. During the Ferguson protests I got pulled over for speeding on the way to a protest and got let go with a warning. Pretty sure "they" aren't the Stasi yet.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 01:30
|
|
|
Modern day protesting is pretty much useless for anything other than feeling better about your situation and getting brief media coverage
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 01:33
|
|
|
Aesop Poprock posted:Modern day protesting is pretty much useless for anything other than feeling better about your situation and getting brief media coverage Thank god you're here, I was worried you'd get tired after making GBS threads up one protest thread, and we'd be deprived of your many insights on the subject. Luckily for us all, that's not the case.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 05:24
|
|
|
If we elected a true theocrat. I think that would do it. Not a guy like Pence, think someone like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell or what have you. Cruz would have gotten me in the streets. That level of rear end in a top hat.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 05:27
|
|
|
Aesop Poprock posted:Modern day protesting is pretty much useless for anything other than feeling better about your situation and getting brief media coverage Nixon was freaked the gently caress out by protesters, thought they were gonna storm the White House and was taken away to Camp David for a few days for his own protection. The loving 82nd Airborne was called in. They do have an impact.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 05:40
|
|
|
scuba school sucks posted:Honestly looking at the BLM movement and how it was roundly dismissed as "domestic terrorists", looking at the organized response to OWS, I wouldn't protest in the streets. With goddamn warrantless wiretapping, massive domestic surveillance, I'd go straight into that stuff we aren't allowed to talk about on here. If you think the government is Literally 1984 now talking on the internet about how you'd protest but you're too cowardly to just puts you on their list for a maintenance session in room 101 so might as well grab your guy fawkes mask and big paper-mache puppet of Donald Trump duder I've managed to hold down a security clearance despite attending protests fairly regularly from anti-Iraq War onward, including a couple of the dreaded BLM rallies, and having a few protest-related arrests on my record. Nobody really cares, get the gently caress over yourself. ToxicSlurpee posted:Occupy wall Street terrified enough people that there was a nationwide FBI effort to destroy it, a deliberate media blackout, and direct police effort to silence it. I still get a constant stream of labor rights meetings and rallies all over the East Coast cause I Facebook friended a few dudes I met at Occupy and they're organizing everywhere, the camps themselves were never gonna be The Revolution but it was an incredible networking opportunity if you had any interest whatever in getting involved in left-wing politics outside the internet, and the spinoff organizations it spawned are still chugging along doing directly useful, non-picketing things to this day. If you're looking to do something productive to improve your community or your lot in life, picketing ain't it, but it'll be a huge help in figuring out what it really is. A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Nov 14, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 07:25
|
|
|
Kilroy posted:The only protest movements in the last however many years I have any respect for are OWS and BLM. BLM scares the poo poo out the establishment and you can see that in the way it's portrayed in the mass media. The elites actually give a poo poo about BLM - of course they're not going to make moves to stop murdering black people, quite the opposite in fact, but they are rather vexed by the prospect of a renewed black nationalism. This is good. I think you're ignoring how both of these movements coalesced. Effective protest leadership shows up once a critical mass of protest is hit, not the other way around. OWS began largely as a spontaneous action that lasted long enough to require leadership and organization. BLM began as a way to network the spontaneous protests happening in cities as black people continue to get murdered by police. Neither would exist without people showing up, with little to no plan at first. If everyone shows up for a weekend, makes noise and goes home, nothing happens. If everyone comes back the next weekend, and the next, networks start forming, and that's when change starts to become possible.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 07:37
|
|
|
A Wizard of Goatse posted:If you think the government is Literally 1984 now talking on the internet about how you'd protest but you're too cowardly to just puts you on their list for a maintenance session in room 101 so might as well grab your guy fawkes mask and big paper-mache puppet of Donald Trump duder "Coward"? "Get the gently caress over yourself"? Seriously? Okay, by all means continue making baseless and unwarranted personal attacks against people who are nominally on your side but disagree with you on some minor point, that's worked out great so far. One post and already I'm an intellectually dishonest strawman of Guy Fawkes masks and 1984. I figured if there was any week in human history D&D wouldn't tolerate this poo poo it would be this week.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 23:45
|
|
|
Aw first you were too scared of the big bad government to do anything and now your feelings are too hurt by the internet to do anything? It's pretty clear your personal utility to any form of political movement is limited to being a punchline to make the actual participants feel better about themselves and you don't need to actually show up for that, just exist in the abstract, so rock on.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2016 01:56
|
|
|
scuba school sucks posted:"Coward"? "Get the gently caress over yourself"? Seriously? Okay, by all means continue making baseless and unwarranted personal attacks against people who are nominally on your side but disagree with you on some minor point, that's worked out great so far. One post and already I'm an intellectually dishonest strawman of Guy Fawkes masks and 1984. I figured if there was any week in human history D&D wouldn't tolerate this poo poo it would be this week. If there's anything the Trump election has taught me is that we need to suck the dicks of bigots and fair-weather leftists.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2016 02:11
|
|
|
504 posted:Alien overlords* Alien overlords would prob be genuinely better than what we have now
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2016 02:14
|
|
|
Can I protest protests? Do I get to stand in the middle of the street if I do
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2016 02:33
|
|
|
PerrineClostermann posted:Can I protest protests? Sure! They're called counter-protests and lots of people do them. Next time there's a white pride rally, why don't you join one? 
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2016 03:15
|
|
|
Is there such a thing as a white pride rally? Or is it just what they call nazi marches over in the states?
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2016 03:18
|
|
|
Starshark posted:Sure! They're called counter-protests and lots of people do them. Next time there's a white pride rally, why don't you join one? Because I'm a brown immigrant's son  But thanks for playing
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2016 03:25
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Is there such a thing as a white pride rally? its the second thing
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2016 03:32
|
|
|
Please, we have a diverse and colorful tapestry of race hatred here in the States. To say that every little white pride rally is a Nazi march is like saying you're a gourmet because you've had every item on the menu at MacDonalds.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2016 03:55
|
|
|
Kenzie posted:Nixon was freaked the gently caress out by protesters, thought they were gonna storm the White House and was taken away to Camp David for a few days for his own protection. The loving 82nd Airborne was called in. They do have an impact.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2016 04:31
|
|
|
twodot posted:Maybe I'm mistaken, but I'd wager most or all protestors don't have the goal of "the President hangs out at Camp David or undisclosed bunker for a few days". You kinda take what you can get for immediate outcomes, we can't all levitate the Pentagon
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2016 04:32
|
|
|
A Wizard of Goatse posted:You kinda take what you can get for immediate outcomes, we can't all levitate the Pentagon Edit: I suppose to flip it on its head, if you're telling us the most protesting can do is move the President around various secure sites, why in the gently caress would anyone do that? You could give me an actual button that teleports the President to Camp David, and I would never press it. twodot fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Nov 15, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2016 04:37
|
|
|
twodot posted:No, that's dumb, engaging in protest is an action that takes more effort than not engaging in protest, so you only do it if the reward is worth the effort (unlike, for example, voting, presuming you intend to vote in at least one race). Maybe you think the President going to Camp David is a worthwhile goal, but I suspect that's uncommon. Sometimes the reward isn't immediate or apparent, and sometimes you're gambling and losing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2016 04:39
|
|
|
Sulphuric rear end in a top hat posted:99% of protests are ineffective and stupid, regardless of political affiliation. Does making GBS threads in the Trump Tower lobby count as a protest?
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2016 04:42
|
|
|
Starshark posted:Sometimes the reward isn't immediate or apparent, and sometimes you're gambling and losing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2016 04:42
|
|
|
Sorry dude you are never going to get to the heartwarming resolution where Donald Trump's heart grows two sizes and he rides about on his sleigh making things right in 90 minutes or less; outsider politics is a lot of slow, hard, boring work and nobody important gives a poo poo about you and the protest is the fun part where everyone gets together and blows off steam and recruits new engaged warm bodies for the unfun bits that do the most to gradually move the needle leftward. There was a whole lot more of a protest movement in Nixon's time than there is now and everything still didn't get fixed. If you need a set deadline on how many times you shake your picket sign before the federal government is Good or you just won't bother you're going in with the wrong attitude to tough it out for the long haul Conservatives are currently reaping the benefits of state-level groundwork they started laying in while most of SA was in diapers; you'll see change as the slow product of a great deal of collected effort or not at all. A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Nov 15, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2016 04:51
|
|
|
A Wizard of Goatse posted:Sorry dude you are never going to get to the heartwarming resolution where Donald Trump's heart grows two sizes and he rides about on his sleigh making things right in 90 minutes or less; outsider politics is a lot of slow, hard, boring work and nobody important gives a poo poo about you and the protest is the fun part where everyone gets together and blows off steam and recruits new engaged warm bodies for the unfun bits that do the most to gradually move the needle leftward. There was a whole lot more of a protest movement in Nixon's time than there is now and everything still didn't get fixed. If you need a set deadline on how many times you shake your picket sign before the federal government is Good or you just won't bother you're going in with the wrong attitude to tough it out for the long haul
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2016 05:06
|
|
|
twodot posted:Recruitment seems like a valid goal of protest, but I'll note "recruitment" is a different goal from "move the President to Camp David", which is what the post I quoted talked about. Fair enough then; that's really what it is. Political advertising for people who traditionally couldn't buy a TV spot. Any official panic is a nice morale-boost of a bonus (boosting morale is the other part of protesting) but no will not bring substantive concessions on its own.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2016 05:09
|
|
|
A Wizard of Goatse posted:Fair enough then; that's really what it is. Political advertising for people who traditionally couldn't buy a TV spot. Any official panic is a nice morale-boost of a bonus (boosting morale is the other part of protesting) but no will not bring substantive concessions on its own.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2016 05:14
|
|
|
Yeah? And the same's true of recruitment. I don't even get what you're fishing for here, there's going to be literally hundreds of disparate groups represented in the anti-Trump protests and if you want their mission statement and strategic roadmap you'd do better to go there and ask them about it directly. Many of them are going to be some variation of lefty social justice or labor movements focused on making some local community an organized power bloc, there's going to be a couple of fringe political parties, a lot of individual people hunting around for a cause to attach themselves to (or just there to vent for a weekend and then get back to their politically passive lives), and probably a bunch of hippies who're there because going to protests is what they do.
A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Nov 15, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2016 05:17
|
|
|
A Wizard of Goatse posted:Yeah? And the same's true of recruitment. I don't even get what you're fishing for here, there's going to be literally hundreds of disparate groups represented in the anti-Trump protests and if you want their mission statement and strategic roadmap you'd do better to go there and ask them about it directly. Many of them are going to be some variation of lefty social justice or labor movements focused on some local community, there's going to be a couple of fringe political parties, a lot of individual people hunting around for a cause to attach themselves to (or just to vent for a weekend and then get back to their politically passive lives), and probably a bunch of hippies who're there because going to protests is what they do.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2016 05:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 00:01 |
|
|
The election is over; the people attending the protest either voted or didn't but are presumably aware of the Democratic party. Recruitment isn't about gaining 'votes', it's about gaining workers for an organization with a longer-term goal that needs people to push, and maintaining morale is about keeping them. Activists burn out all the loving time and preventing that is at least as important as reaching out to new people.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2016 05:27
|
|