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"This is just my opinion, I'm not a doctor" seems to be the new rallying cry of the Republican party. "I'm going to gently caress over your life. Why? Well, I have these opinions on things and I want those opinions to become law. I'm not an authority on the matter, but still."
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Jun 6, 2014 09:06
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JT Jag posted:"This is just my opinion, I'm not a doctor" seems to be the new rallying cry of the Republican party.
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Jun 6, 2014 09:11
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Mayor Dave posted:That OP gets more depressing every month. Did anything in it substatially change this month?
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Jun 6, 2014 09:33
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This is a certain kind of ingenious. Now that everyone gets paid with insurance or is required to purchase it, you can skirt all those Court decisions against banning birth control by just requiring women to pay double for it. All the benefit of de facto restricting it to affluent women without the discrimination lawsuits! But I'm even more impressed with the "personal belief" angle. The right wing has done a great job since Roe getting acceptance for the idea that religious freedom means never having to pay tax dollars or insurance premiums that could go to abortion, but just baldly claiming that whether birth control causes abortions is itself a religious belief and not a question of fact...that's devious. Come to think of it, wasn't this basically Hobby Lobby's argument, that paying for birth control is paying for abortions? John Roberts posted:Isn’t that what we are talking about in terms of their religious beliefs? One of the religious beliefs is that they have to pay for these four methods of contraception that they believe provide abortions. I thought that’s what we had before us. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 10:12 on Jun 6, 2014 |
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Jun 6, 2014 10:08
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JT Jag posted:"This is just my opinion, I'm not a doctor" seems to be the new rallying cry of the Republican party. My response "You have incurable cancer and will die in 4 days, Just my opinion, i'm not a doctor."
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Jun 6, 2014 10:31
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I just wanted to drop in and say that's a hell of a good OP, OP. 
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Jun 6, 2014 10:37
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effectual posted:Did anything in it substatially change this month? Not really, which is probably the reason it's as depressing as it is  I was sorry to see the other thread close so abruptly though, I was curious how that one guy was going to try to justify his "consequences don't matter, minimum wage is wrong even if it is purely beneficial to society"stance. Wolfsheim fucked around with this message at 11:01 on Jun 6, 2014 |
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Jun 6, 2014 10:58
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effectual posted:Did anything in it substatially change this month? Yeah I added enough to it that it is now 17 pages long.
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Jun 6, 2014 12:24
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Wolfsheim posted:Not really, which is probably the reason it's as depressing as it is "Minimum wage is going to cause an economic collapse" can be filed with Obama taking all our guns and Iran nuking Israel as things that are going to happen ANY DAY NOW.
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Jun 6, 2014 12:37
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1stGear posted:"Minimum wage is going to cause an economic collapse" can be filed with Obama taking all our guns and Iran nuking Israel as things that are going to happen ANY DAY NOW. Yes, but unlike the shitthatdidnthappen.txt instances of Gungrabber Obama and Literal Hitler Obama, minimum wages causing economic collapse or even economic damage are shitthatdidnthappen.txt with accompanying shitthatdidnthappen.csv real data. There's plenty of instances in which the minimum wage was raised, and there's zee-row evidence for it being bad. Zilch. Any time one of those fiscal Pentecostals drops to the ground and starts gibbering like a loving infant about how jarb creators need their bribes just kick 'em in the balls. You'll feel better and the loving animal you're conversing with will at least be quieter.
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Jun 6, 2014 13:02
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Then say "I'm not a doctor...it's just my personal belief that kicking you in the balls just now stopped an abortion from happening somewhere" VVVVVVV This could be the biggest scandal since Benghazighazi! VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 13:20 on Jun 6, 2014 |
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Jun 6, 2014 13:06
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Swan Oat posted:If -ghazi replaces -gate as the suffix for political scandals, it will enrich this country more than any amount of fair, progressive taxation or schemes to redistribute money from the rich to the poor. I wonder if anyone on the right has started referring to Tricky Dick's little scandal as "Watergateghazi" yet.
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Jun 6, 2014 13:17
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JT Jag posted:"This is just my opinion, I'm not a doctor" seems to be the new rallying cry of the Republican party. New? This has been the rallying cry for ages. "I FEEL THIS IN MY GUT! Therefore it should/should not be law." We're going to reach a point that literally everything in the loving universe equals an abortion. Ban all food beyond starvation-level subsistence, because extra food provides people with energy to gently caress and loving causes pregnancy and some people want to end their unplanned pregnancies ergo, abortion. Every time I talk to some low-info right-winger and they spout that "party of freedom" bullshit I pull out this little dandy: "So, the party of freedom supports the freedom to do what you want with your own body, right? To have sex with who you want, to marry who you want, to ingest/eat/smoke what you want, to deal with any and all medical conditions you might have in exactly the way you, a free person with freedom, want to deal with them, right?" Then there's some stuttering and hem-hawing, then the killing stroke: "How can you call them the party of freedom when they don't even want to give me freedom over the 6'2" of flesh and bone that Almighty God gave to me and only me? How can someone claim to be in favor freedom and support a party that holds a belief that I don't actually own myself and government has to decide all these things for me under power of law at the point of a gun?" It's seriously excellent, try it sometime and watch the tortured thrashing.
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Jun 6, 2014 13:30
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Only if after telling them all that I can hear a pin drop and everybody claps
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Jun 6, 2014 13:35
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Hey Fried Chicken, I don't know if you know Threads is on youtube but this is the complete thing and the more people who get to
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Jun 6, 2014 13:40
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On the subject of the ever-expanding definition of abortion, an Oklahoma state senator amends anti-abortion bill to include the spilling of semen.
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Jun 6, 2014 13:46
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Yeah but she was trolling guys that focus on using anti-abortion measures to repress women.
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Jun 6, 2014 13:53
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Illuyankas posted:Hey Fried Chicken, I don't know if you know Threads is on youtube but this is the complete thing and the more people who get to Ah, the feel good movie of the century. Thank you, I'll update the OP tonight. There is some stuff I want to add to it, like Open Carry, data sources, and how to get involved that I cut because I just wanted to get the thing posted.
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Jun 6, 2014 13:57
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Hobby Lobby isn't relying on a personal belief angle, but the legal arguments wouldn't change much if they were actually opposed to contraception. The insurance coverage at issue is for things the FDA has admitted can cause "abortion" (pre-implantation I think) in certain circumstances.
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Jun 6, 2014 14:17
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Illuyankas posted:Hey Fried Chicken, I don't know if you know Threads is on youtube but this is the complete thing and the more people who get to Whew, I was worried this thread might be getting too light-hearted and carefree!
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Jun 6, 2014 14:20
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quote:If you look historically, at the end of any conflict, you have a swap of prisoners, and that happens. Usually our side will release people that are less than desirable in order to get some of our people back in these swaps. So I would suggest that anybody who's being hyper-critical about this, they should look at the history. This has happened before." quote:"It doesn't matter if Bergdahl had deserted his post or not. It doesn't matter if he is a confused young man who said insulting and shameful things about his country and his Army. The debt we owe to fellow Americans is not based on individual merit. It is based on citizenship, and loyalty to the national community we all share... the president's instincts were right. His sense of responsibility for a fellow countryman was correct. It's not about one person; it's about the principle of all-for-one-and-one-for-all, which is the basis of citizenship."
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Jun 6, 2014 14:28
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Excellent OP What better way to remember DDay than to criticize the president for getting a POW to come home.
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Jun 6, 2014 14:33
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made of bees posted:On the subject of the ever-expanding definition of abortion, an Oklahoma state senator amends anti-abortion bill to include the spilling of semen. She really missed the opportunity of a lifetime to title it one of those stupid acronyms like Securing our Kids from Excess Emissions of Tumescence.
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Jun 6, 2014 14:48
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Kiwi Ghost Chips posted:The insurance coverage at issue is for things the FDA has admitted can cause "abortion" (pre-implantation I think) in certain circumstances. Ah yes, causes of abortion. Such causes as...unplanned pregnancy? Whooops, nope, they don't care about that! But jokes aside, I know what you mean. No matter how a woman uses her IUD or what her individual circumstances are, if there's any chance at all, theoretically, that some circumstance exists where it might cause an abortion, Hobby Lobby refuses on moral grounds to contribute to it. Which is why the second one of their employees gets pregnant she is put on 9 months of paid leave with a live-in nurse so she doesn't have to navigate stairs or risk car accidents getting to work, nor stand 8 hours a day; that's expensive, but Hobby Lobby is committed to saving unborn lives! Oh wait poo poo, no, they don't care about that either. Hm. It seems mitigating miniscule abortion risks even further is mysteriously only a priority when they get to do it by denying contraceptive methods, how odd. Kiwi Ghost Chips posted:Hobby Lobby isn't relying on a personal belief angle, but the legal arguments wouldn't change much if they were actually opposed to contraception. Actually it would change those arguments' effectiveness, because the Court (and most Americans) aren't going to buy the argument that mandating straight-up contraception coverage is actually a substantial burden on religion. But since the men on the Court seem good with that argument when it comes to abortion, the tactic is to claim whatever you hate causes abortion according to your beliefs and count on the court's reluctance to pass judgment on the validity of religious belief. Obviously they're starting slow with methods like IUD as a trial balloon before moving on to less and less plausible claims to see how much they can get away with. You can't just start off claiming that interracial sex causes abortions so they shouldn't have to subsidize it by paying spousal benefits, after all.
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Jun 6, 2014 14:49
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I'm curious how long it will take for America to get sick of the religious extremists before it sparks a blow back. It seems like every other decade we forget how lovely they are and they worm their way back into power to scam their base out of money and pass laws to oppress people they don't like before they get run out of town and then the process repeats. Making all forms of contraceptives illegal (which is clearly their long term plan) certainly isn't going to go well with most of the country that likes sex without having to worry too much about STDs and unwanted pregnancies even if they want to pretend they don't in public.
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Jun 6, 2014 14:54
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Radish posted:Yeah but she was trolling guys that focus on using anti-abortion measures to repress women. Yeah but all of these pieces of legislation should be trolled to include stuff like this. I love it when legislators do this.
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Jun 6, 2014 14:55
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JonathonSpectre posted:New? This has been the rallying cry for ages. "I FEEL THIS IN MY GUT! Therefore it should/should not be law." This does work sometimes but the more studied and practiced ones will reply with "The rights of one person end where the rights of another begin". And while that's true, it's also a lovely argument and then it takes us right back to "is a fetus a baby?" and they'll never, ever concede on that issue.
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Jun 6, 2014 14:56
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peter banana posted:Yeah but all of these pieces of legislation should be trolled to include stuff like this. I love it when legislators do this. Oh yes she's awesome and there should be more of it. Elephant Ambush posted:This does work sometimes but the more studied and practiced ones will reply with "The rights of one person end where the rights of another begin". And while that's true, it's also a lovely argument and then it takes us right back to "is a fetus a baby?" and they'll never, ever concede on that issue. Yeah the smarter ones will reply that they don't support drug laws (although they certainly don't give a poo poo about repealing them) but that when you get an abortion you are making a choice for the fetus-person or in the case of gays that you are infringing on the freedom of people to have to support their lifestyle. Those are BS but they can say those and feel that they are being ideologically consistent. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Jun 6, 2014 |
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Jun 6, 2014 14:57
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Radish posted:Making all forms of contraceptives illegal (which is clearly their long term plan) certainly isn't going to go well with most of the country that likes sex without having to worry too much about STDs and unwanted pregnancies even if they want to pretend they don't in public. It seems like they've thought of this, and that's why their goal is to put up barriers for poor women by raising costs and double-charging them by banning insurance coverage, leaving the affluent largely unaffected. Elephant Ambush posted:This does work sometimes but the more studied and practiced ones will reply with "The rights of one person end where the rights of another begin". And while that's true, it's also a lovely argument and then it takes us right back to "is a fetus a baby?" and they'll never, ever concede on that issue. Hence the revising of "when a new life starts" back from pregnancy to fertilization to catch any contraceptives that prevent pregnancy by stopping implantation along with increasingly implausible claims that this or that method of preventing fertilization could have the sliverest chance of stopping implantation too so it's just like cutting up a live baby. Didn't in vitro fertilization used to be completely uncontroversial among Protestants because they accepted the medical definition of implantation equals pregnancy? VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Jun 6, 2014 |
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Jun 6, 2014 15:03
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No details, but Naval Medical Center Portsmouth has issued an "Active Shooter" alert
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Jun 6, 2014 15:04
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VitalSigns posted:It seems like they've thought of this, and that's why their goal is to put up barriers for poor women by raising costs and double-charging them by banning insurance coverage, leaving the affluent largely unaffected. That's true and it gets around bans when you have a SCOTUS that doesn't understand that things can be effectively illegal even if they aren't rules as written illegal. However the religious right are true believers and are never sated so it's only a matter of time before they go for real bans in areas that aren't their home turf and I think that will be the straw.
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Jun 6, 2014 15:05
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Fried Chicken posted:No details, but Naval Medical Center Portsmouth has issued an "Active Shooter" alert It was a stabbing at the base exchange. http://wtkr.com/2014/06/06/active-shooter-alert-issued-at-portsmouth-naval-medical-center/
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Jun 6, 2014 15:07
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Radish posted:I'm curious how long it will take for America to get sick of the religious extremists before it sparks a blow back. It seems like every other decade we forget how lovely they are and they worm their way back into power to scam their base out of money and pass laws to oppress people they don't like before they get run out of town and then the process repeats. Making all forms of contraceptives illegal (which is clearly their long term plan) certainly isn't going to go well with most of the country that likes sex without having to worry too much about STDs and unwanted pregnancies even if they want to pretend they don't in public. Hahaha, that's funny. The US was started in no small part by a bunch of dangerous religious extremists, so there's no reason to think we'll suddenly start acting any differently. The US is also incredibly locked down as far as sex goes, so there's no reason to not expect a backswing towards an even more locked down society. And since business has a vested interest in higher population (more demand to drive prices up, more workers who are more desperate because of additional children to drive wages down) this is a line that will be pushed hard over the next few years.
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Jun 6, 2014 15:09
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rkajdi posted:The US was started in no small part by a bunch of dangerous religious extremists, Not really. The Framers were not religious extremists for their day. Although I do agree with your point that religious extremism - in many forms - has been part of the US since the beginning.
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Jun 6, 2014 15:11
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I agree that the US has a lot of puritanical roots but at the same time our media is hyper-sexually charged and people want sex. You can't just tell people that safe sex is now gone because "we said so" and not expect an extreme backlash from people that are used to it. If they kept it to the oppression of poor people (via pricing it too high unless you had an insurance company negotiating it for you like with Hobby Lobby) then I can see it festering for a while but the religious true believers won't be stopping there.
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Jun 6, 2014 15:14
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VitalSigns posted:I find myself completely unable to believe this. Why would they co-sponsor it? They have nothing to gain for themselves by doing so and anyone who does so knows they'll be primaried. Honestly, after the ruling Obama should've just said "no, gently caress you guys. Congress has sole authority over these matters and if you don't like it you can eat poo poo, we're going to continue enforcing the VRA" and force a showdown while directly calling out people like Roberts on their long held desires to dismantle the VRA. Be he didn't. And he won't do anything when the court goes 5-4 in favor of Hobby Lobby and we see ALEC go twice as hard at pushing religion-defense bullshit nationwide.
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Jun 6, 2014 15:20
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euphronius posted:Not really. The Framers were not religious extremists for their day. Not the Framers, the Puritans. You know, the folks that ran England like a little island Taliban for over five years? I guess I should have been more specific-- "The people who colonized the not yet US where in no small part dangerous religious extremists" I guess?
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Jun 6, 2014 15:23
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Radish posted:Yeah but she was trolling guys that focus on using anti-abortion measures to repress women. Yeah sorry I should've made that more clear, it's a blatant troll and a great one at that.
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Jun 6, 2014 15:25
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The Pilgrims (Plymouth Colony) did not start the US. They were politically inconsequential by the late 1700s.
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Jun 6, 2014 15:26
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Look, you may not agree with their methods, but witches don't exist anymore, and I think the Puritans are at least partially to thank for that.
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Jun 6, 2014 15:26
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