|
Skeleton Ape posted:Some things have happened to you. Care to share? Imagine you're playing a game with thousands of unwritten rules no one has explained to you and the consequences of breaking those rules are social ostracization, ridicule, and generally being treated like you're an rear end in a top hat for existing. And then on top of that you don't know when you've even done anything wrong and are always confused at the varying levels of hostility you experience from all the people around you. And sometimes when they're aware you don't know how to play this game. Yaldabaoth posted:Well poo poo, I didn't know you had it that bad. Sorry Sounds like you could do with learning some basic empathy. I. M. Gei posted:Science doesn't know It's vaccines. Obviously!
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2022 22:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 09:53 |
|
|
CPL593H posted:Imagine you're playing a game with thousands of unwritten rules no one has explained to you and the consequences of breaking those rules are social ostracization, ridicule, and generally being treated like you're an rear end in a top hat for existing. And then on top of that you don't know when you've even done anything wrong and are always confused at the varying levels of hostility you experience from all the people around you. And sometimes when they're aware you don't know how to play this game. Oh don't get me wrong, I'm on the spectrum too. That person just came off as particularly aggro
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2022 22:44
|
|
|
And being calm about it and meeting people halfway on the subject of "how much should we disapprove of you because of your disability?" has the exact same rate of positive outcomes meeting people halfway on the subject of "how much should we disapprove of you because of your ethnicity?". The only option is to find people who get it's just being a dickbag telling someone to "be better" about a neurological disorder. Life has been so much nicer when my first response to someone "offering advice" on how to manage something that has made my life hell for decades is "gently caress all the way off, you're not one of my doctors and you're not educated enough to understand how all of this works". Filters out the dipshits who will use your autism as a weapon against you, and quickly!
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2022 22:44
|
|
|
I'll be honest, I've never heard anyone complain about autistic people's inability to pick up social cues. Most people complained about their lack of empathy but now I suspect those people were assholes conflating a lack of body language with a lack of empathy.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2022 22:47
|
|
|
Yaldabaoth posted:I'll be honest, I've never heard anyone complain about autistic people's inability to pick up social cues. Most people complained about their lack of empathy but now I suspect those people were assholes conflating a lack of body language with a lack of empathy. That's because they don't get there's a failure to pick up social cues on both sides. They think they're reading messages communicated in body language, and trust those messages to influence the way they read people's tone, and as a result think autistic people are reading social cues but are just choosing to be assholes. Autistic to non-autistic communication requires cooperation on both sides and acceptance that both sides need to put in the effort to rationally decipher and communicate tone. And a whole loving lot of people are just unwilling to accept they might not understand what someone else is trying to communicate. And/or are raging dipshits just waiting for an excuse. You'll get the same effect if you just look at literally every post looking for reasons to get angry at the poster. Only, y'know, for autistic people a good third of people are just like that, all the time, and it's very hard to predict who is and isn't going to do it, especially as people see being cordial as a social nicety they expect to be reprocitated.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2022 22:54
|
|
|
Yaldabaoth posted:I'll be honest, I've never heard anyone complain about autistic people's inability to pick up social cues. Most people complained about their lack of empathy but now I suspect those people were assholes conflating a lack of body language with a lack of empathy. You're honestly the first person I've encountered who conflates autism with psychopathy.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2022 22:59
|
|
|
Devils Affricate posted:You're honestly the first person I've encountered who conflates autism with psychopathy. To be fair I definitely have very little ability to figure out what the neurotypicals are doing or why, and the only skill I have developed is "asking". By that standard, I have little empathy, but normal compassion. Remorse being another big component, and I'm most certainly capable of remorse. Funnily, this doesn't extend to other people with autism, there things work normally, I assume, not being entirely sure what "normal" is.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2022 23:12
|
|
|
I mean just take some acting classes and then pretend to be an empathic person using body language as part of your 'stage' persona it's very simple and easy obviously
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2022 23:13
|
|
|
Skeleton Ape posted:Oh don't get me wrong, I'm on the spectrum too. That person just came off as particularly aggro I considered that possibility. But either way I was also putting it out there because I'm sure that there are plenty of normies who need to see that. Plus I 100% understand endlessmonotony's rage about this. Yaldabaoth posted:I'll be honest, I've never heard anyone complain about autistic people's inability to pick up social cues. Most people complained about their lack of empathy but now I suspect those people were assholes conflating a lack of body language with a lack of empathy. That's one of the defining characteristics. I'm going to say this as politely as I can. Before you decide to commentary on people with developmental disabilities maybe read up on these things. Or better yet, just don't do that. endlessmonotony posted:That's because they don't get there's a failure to pick up social cues on both sides. They think they're reading messages communicated in body language, and trust those messages to influence the way they read people's tone, and as a result think autistic people are reading social cues but are just choosing to be assholes. At this point in my life I've just decided that it's a lot easier if I just tell people I'm autistic to get it out of the way and I apologize in advance for certain faux pas or if I talk about something too much. I actually spend a lot of time second guessing myself and even though I'm very enthusiastic about telling people about something I'm passionate about the whole time I'm worried about boring them and will always tell them if they're not interested to say so. How hosed up is that? Especially since thus far no one has voiced an objection. Big Beef City posted:I mean just take some acting classes and then pretend to be an empathic person using body language as part of your 'stage' persona it's very simple and easy obviously Take some ball sucking classes and suck my balls.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2022 23:20
|
|
|
Oh no I've got plenty of classical training. On a serious note I'd like to tell everyone commenting on their own situations in this thread, thank you. It can be difficult for people to share these stories and experiences and it's good to hear them shared
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2022 23:25
|
|
|
I'm perfectly normal but a complete shut-in so my social skills are non-existent. Can I feel proud about that?
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2022 23:28
|
|
|
Also, I'm perfectly capable of being cordial. I know a lot about body language, and I can fake it decently, though according to everyone neurotypical I can trust it's subtly off at all times, giving me serial killer vibes whenever I try to pretend to be normal. I know I come across as very aggressive because it's seen as very inappropriate to declare yourself exempt from social conventions. The problem is that if I tried to follow those social conventions, I'd miss subtle body language cues as well as have my own slightly off body language, which comes across as very rude (because people use body language to request things nonverbally, such as a chance to speak) and also means I appear creepy and incoherent. Which means that the way the perception evolves over time is one where I first look like an awkward nerd trying too hard, and then it evolves into being seen as an rear end in a top hat that never cares about what anyone else has to say, and seems to always think they're better than you, at least going by their body language. Meanwhile if I loudly reject anyone's attempts to "help" me fit into the normal mold, I come across like a profoundly angry, proud rear end in a top hat, who then mellows to an incorrigible punster and hopeless romantic with a dark past. The people who don't get and accept that there's way more going on, things they can't possibly understand yet, maybe not ever - those are the people who would later on use my autism against me trying to improve their own social status. The people who try to "help" me to figure it all out don't get that I understand it better than they do, and the direction trying to fit in by learning the proper ways to behave comes across as a stilted pantomime where I come across like I'm mocking the people around me. That's just autism, and I don't even have full control over half my face, so I always look weird. I have to select from the options available to me, and being myself at full intensity without masking and having zero tolerance for ableism means that the people who are capable of handling that notice it, and the people who can't stay the gently caress away, which is better for everyone involved. It evolves as I learn new ways to do things, but it's the best I got for now.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2022 23:30
|
|
|
endlessmonotony posted:Also, I'm perfectly capable of being cordial. I know a lot about body language, and I can fake it decently, though according to everyone neurotypical I can trust it's subtly off at all times, giving me serial killer vibes whenever I try to pretend to be normal. ... okay... I think my approach may be different from your's. And I think that's okay.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 00:07
|
|
|
Archer666 posted:I'm perfectly normal but a complete shut-in so my social skills are non-existent. Can I feel proud about that? drat proud.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 00:08
|
|
|
I. M. Gei posted:... okay... I think my approach may be different from your's. And I think that's okay. No approach works, and there's no win condition. It's just going to be there, and I tried my best to fit in and learn how to be normal for countless years. All I ever got out of trying to do it right was people telling me to try harder, no matter how hard I tried. So now I take paths I know to be wrong, just because they're ones not trod by a million other failures. Will I find what I'm looking for? Not bloody likely. But that's probably true by exploring being bizarre, and conclusively true trying to be normal.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 00:12
|
|
|
CPL593H posted:Imagine you're playing a game with thousands of unwritten rules no one has explained to you and the consequences of breaking those rules are social ostracization, ridicule, and generally being treated like you're an rear end in a top hat for existing. And then on top of that you don't know when you've even done anything wrong and are always confused at the varying levels of hostility you experience from all the people around you. And sometimes when they're aware you don't know how to play this game. Much like my posting. This is actually not a joke. I do get treated with this kind of hostility while posting here. Regularly. Sometimes by mods.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 00:13
|
|
|
I can't succeed, but I might find a funny way to fail.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 00:13
|
|
|
Buce posted:drat proud. That's cheating. Anyone who's not a shut in wouldn't be a goon in the first place. endlessmonotony posted:No approach works, and there's no win condition. It's just going to be there, and I tried my best to fit in and learn how to be normal for countless years. I don't really try to pretend I'm anything I'm not. But I understand perfectly well how hard it is trying to live up to societal standards when you are pretty much made to always fall short. I've put a lot of effort into the basics of social interactions and I still gently caress it up sometimes. It's hard work. A lot of what I've learned is a bit of self awareness, although that has been far from ideal because of the aforementioned insecurities and complexes I've developed. A lot of what I've picked up just boils down to knowing when not to say something in a casual social situation. But these are just my experiences. It is after all a spectrum and you have to deal with things I don't. Ironically I think we'd all be better off if it was the normies or everyone in general who could just learn when not to talk. I. M. Gei posted:Much like my posting. Turn off your monitor. As much as poo poo sucks I've done what most of us have to do and just developed a thicker skin towards some poo poo and managed to just go "Well what a bunch of fuckheads.". Somehow I've managed not to get a lot of poo poo posting on here but I'm sure that's got a lot to do with me having missed out on this forum's "golden age". Although several years back I went into the Cinema Discusso and within seconds one of the regulars called me a "human being" and "an autistic pussy". but in all fairness to CD and etc he was permabanned not too long after. So not exactly the top of the heap. CPL593H fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Jun 19, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 00:18
|
|
|
I'm learning I lucked out by being considered undeniably weird but generally likable.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 00:21
|
|
|
I honestly had no idea Autistic Pride Day was a thing - I knew about April being Autism Awareness Month but not this. I'm autistic and very lucky to have had supportive parents and a school district that was accommodating of it, but surprise, it doesn't magically go away when you become an adult!! Glad to see other people in here sharing their stories, I was bracing for impact clicking into this and reading the first few posts.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 00:42
|
|
|
What happened to that one forum where people claiming to be women posted horror stories of how terrible their totally-real-and-not-made-up autistic husbands were? Is that still around?
I. M. Gei fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Jun 19, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 01:05
|
|
|
I. M. Gei posted:Basically having autism is like having really huge boobs. A lot of people see big huge honkin' tits as a gift, and that's fine and great, but for many people the drawbacks outweigh the benefits for one reason or another, and those people should have the option to make their titties smaller if they want or need to, and other people should respect their choice to do so or not do so. Autism is like that, except there is no medical procedure to reduce autism size. Third sunday in July is now officially Circus Tits Pride Day
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 01:07
|
|
|
I. M. Gei posted:What happened to that one forum where people claiming to be women posted horror stories of how terrible their totally-real-and-not-made-up autistic husbands were? Is that still around? It's called r/relationships now.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 01:29
|
|
|
See, the crazy solution for not being to pick up on tonality and body language I have found is to just ask, and if they something else then ask why they lied. "You should have figured it out" is the same as "you need to read my mind" and people will always look like assholes for saying it. But also despite being hella autistic I'm extremely good at picking up tonality and body language and all that tedious horseshit, because I had to learn it to survive. Being around autists who I can just ask for clarification and get it is a nice break from having survival hypervigilance all the time. I hate that I need to pay attention to the smallest things to avoid someone who can't just say what they mean flipping out because no one read their minds. I'm trying to help you, why are you actively lying? In summary, the poster who thought autists had no empathy sounds like the sort of dude who fires on people in the street and says they looked like they were gonna start looting lol
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 01:49
|
|
|
Spectrum? drat near killed ‘um!
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 02:05
|
|
|
I think I'm gonna just set aside a day on my own where I can consider the things ALL marginalized groups, big or small, are going through or have to deal with. I can't keep track of all these days
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 02:05
|
|
|
syntaxfunction posted:In summary, the poster who thought autists had no empathy sounds like the sort of dude who fires on people in the street and says they looked like they were gonna start looting lol The way people talk about empathy recently is sounding more and more like otherizing propaganda from early last century. Which isn't a new observation, a lot of our cultural understanding of empathy is built around shared cultural experience, shared words and concepts, and shared ways of thinking in a way where it excludes people from different cultures and/or languages (see also: China, see also: white man's burden), and autistic people and other neuroatypicals. People are still human even if they can't understand why you'd choose to live the way you do, and trying to make everyone live the way you'd want to is bad news.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 02:07
|
|
|
Someone entirely lacking empathy, sympathy, compassion, and remorse is very dangerous. But someone saying their political enemies lack empathy might be more dangerous.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 02:09
|
|
|
Wes Warhammer posted:I honestly had no idea Autistic Pride Day was a thing - I knew about April being Autism Awareness Month but not this. I'm autistic and very lucky to have had supportive parents and a school district that was accommodating of it, but surprise, it doesn't magically go away when you become an adult!! ya i didnt see this thread going anywhere productive but its interesting to see people being honest about who they are. i work with people with autism and developmental delays and its these people that get the stigmatization that is the easiest to insult. its interesting to see how ourr understanding of autism has progressed, obviously still not great (it sucks honestly), but the whole spectrum idea is just poo poo and the new ideas of pie charts or order vs emotion/psycopathy aren't good either but at least we're moving away from this straight line of the spectrum idea and it's a good thing. the more people i've met and worked with diagnosed with autism the more I've learned the easy definitions of who they are or what autism is the more i see its poo poo, its not black and white. the autism pride day thing seems kind of hosed up for many reasons but i get it that someone somewhere thought it would be a good and positive thing, maybe just not what they thought it would be.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 02:27
|
|
|
Luvcow posted:ya i didnt see this thread going anywhere productive but its interesting to see people being honest about who they are. i work with people with autism and developmental delays and its these people that get the stigmatization that is the easiest to insult. its interesting to see how ourr understanding of autism has progressed, obviously still not great (it sucks honestly), but the whole spectrum idea is just poo poo and the new ideas of pie charts or order vs emotion/psycopathy aren't good either but at least we're moving away from this straight line of the spectrum idea and it's a good thing. the more people i've met and worked with diagnosed with autism the more I've learned the easy definitions of who they are or what autism is the more i see its poo poo, its not black and white. the autism pride day thing seems kind of hosed up for many reasons but i get it that someone somewhere thought it would be a good and positive thing, maybe just not what they thought it would be. The idea of an autism pride day is so tone deaf it's either autistic, or proof you don't have to be autistic to be socially clueless.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 02:33
|
|
|
Autism pride day is loving dumb btw lol
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 02:36
|
|
|
syntaxfunction posted:Autism pride day is loving dumb btw lol  We need more people to talk about how dumb it is on Twitter. Twitter is a disease.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 02:38
|
|
|
endlessmonotony posted:The idea of an autism pride day is so tone deaf it's either autistic, or proof you don't have to be autistic to be socially clueless. i agree. someone created this for you and never truly thought how it would effect you, just how it would effect themselves. the road to hell is paved in good intentions.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 02:43
|
|
|
Luvcow posted:i agree. someone created this for you and never truly thought how it would effect you, just how it would effect themselves.  It was created by an autism advocacy group run by people with autism.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 02:45
|
|
|
I. M. Gei posted:
i know
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 02:46
|
|
|
For real though, we NEED more people talking about how dumb it is on Twitter. "More people" includes you, the reader!
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 02:46
|
|
|
What kind of psychopath (or autist I guess lol) tells people to post on Twitter? The gently caress is wrong with you?
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 02:52
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 02:56
|
|
|
Twitter is where bad opinions come from and we have to stop them
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 02:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 09:53 |
|
|
syntaxfunction posted:What kind of psychopath (or autist I guess lol) tells people to post on Twitter? The gently caress is wrong with you? Lack of empathy, I'd guess.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 02:57
|
|