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Walthiero Minnesanger (He/They) Wandering Mage-Poet "And so," Walthiero resumed, encouraged by the response from One, "we might hazard that we cannot leave this place - or rather that some immortal PART of us cannot - at least until we work out how to make the world of humanity a better, safer, happier place to live - for ALL..." With a raised eyebrow, this last statement of Walthiero's was absolutely intoned as a question.
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Nov 5, 2023 23:02
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Nyaa posted:Avantus Benussman "The Plan is perfect in its design and will lead Us to eliminate conflict without fail. The only variable here is what form the Next Stage of Mankind shall take. Whether or not you find the outcome to your liking has no bearing on Our success. So no, there shall be no 'restarts'."
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Nov 5, 2023 23:12
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Avantus Benussman Understanding dawns upon Avantus. "I see! There's no wrong answer, and it's a matter of choosing the right answers you desire. Like a bug free perfected game of your chosen genre."
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Nov 5, 2023 23:22
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Lux Anima posted:Walthiero Minnesanger (He/They) Wandering Mage-Poet "You shall leave here once We hear your conclusion on the matter of distributing the First Gift. The other phases of the Plan will be discussed in future conferences, after We have a chance to observe mankind's progress for some time." AFancyQuestionMark fucked around with this message at 09:43 on Nov 6, 2023 |
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Nov 5, 2023 23:23
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Solijan Ruuh. The blinding smile dropped, if only for a second, as Ruuh found themselves not in their "Congratulations are in order I should think, for you claim to have conquered the world, and with Our Own Eyes have We seen your supposed Victory. You claim to have aspirations to end conflict, yet you need our collective help in facilitating this transition... why, exactly? It could not be for the sake of any one amongst us." Their Royal Radiance pauses for a moment, as if in thought. "For if you have conquered Death, as you put it, and have power so far beyond ours that nothing could thwart your plans, only Time, thus Entropy, could be your foe. Do you seek to cease progress then, perhaps encase the world in ice?" "Khet teaches us, that Time is Change, is Entropy. The vector of humanity, forever. Without it, there would be no humanity to save, so what is your real goal? Come now, we are all Equals here, I would assume, unless you think yourselves a God or more." Pause for laughter. The smile of a shark.
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Nov 5, 2023 23:35
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Walthiero Minnesanger (He/They) Wandering Mage-PoetSolijan Ruuh posted:"Congratulations are in order I should think, for you claim to have conquered the world, and with Our Own Eyes have We seen your supposed Victory. You claim to have aspirations to end conflict, yet you need our collective help in facilitating this transition... why, exactly? It could not be for the sake of any one amongst us." Walthiero sized up this other interlocutor who would openly scheme against their host to their faces, noting the opulent finery of Khet's high clergy draped all over the man's well-fed frame. "Know your Domain, priest," Walthiero rebuked Ruuh with a scowl. "You speak of equality, and yet: how many 'heretics' has your faith sacrificed to its god since the towers rose, or since Khet closed its borders to all travel in and out?" Walthiero's eyes snapped toward the One, and he tried to correct course for his own sanity, "Don't answer that."
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Nov 6, 2023 00:22
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Paractas, That-Which-RedeemsAFancyQuestionMark posted:"That's a matter of individual perspective. The thing that is certain is that Mankind-With-Conflict could not be mankind for much longer, since it would have soon ceased to be. Therefore, Mankind-Without-Conflict is the only kind of mankind that will be allowed to exist." "'The only kind of mankind that will be allowed to exist.' Do you realize, recognize and accept the irony in our new path for humanity requiring these words? So many, so many of the myriad conflicts of humanity have been between or against a subset that insists that they will be the ones to fit that definition. Those are words of war, of conquest, of annihilation. Words that seek the end of thousands, millions of human lives. The words of every despot and petty king, every politician and populist, that wants to silence dissent, and cannot do so peaceably without compromising their ideals more than they are willing to accept. So, give me a ballpark figure. What percentage of humanity needs to be eliminated, the dissenters, the intractables, the contrarians, for this plan to be seen through to completion?"
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Nov 6, 2023 00:25
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Walthiero Minnesanger posted:"Know your Domain, priest," Walthiero rebuked Ruuh with a scowl. "You speak of equality, and yet: how many 'heretics' has your faith sacrificed to its god since the towers rose, or since Khet closed its borders to all travel in and out?" Solijan Ruuh raised a royal eyebrow at the accusation "Such passion in your words. Such would no doubt be stifled quickly under that Ones rule. A pity, for all of Us are richer with the question asked. And you would be right, there is no Equality, such a word is a Lie - a concept one such as you should you be well acquainted with. But lies, as with all illusions, can be useful, if for no other reason than to gleam the Truth from it's obfuscation. To be sure, neither They nor We have any question as to Our Station, and with Your Inclusion into this False Heaven, you have no reason to see yourselves as one of Those Below either. What voice do they have in these supposed negotiations? None. So know Your place, as you stand together with the Lords and Ladies on High."
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Nov 6, 2023 00:52
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Antonius von Schnee The academician had been mostly silent regarding the quarrel taking place, more concerned with his own private theorizing. But he did have something to add. "I don't believe anything constructive can be reached here until we move from bad faith semantics to actually rigid definitions." "For example, arguing the pros and cons and so on and so forth of a 'Mankind-Without-Conflict'", he was doing the air quotes again, "is wholly pointless before the people who have presented us this term actually tell us what they mean, as 'conflict' is a multifaceted term." A brief pause. "Well, I suppose not wholly pointless. It could still serve as a vector to listen yourself fume, if that is within your interest."
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Nov 6, 2023 01:14
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Walthiero Minnesanger (He/They) Wandering Mage-Poet "Fair shake," Walthiero admitted, cowed by the shame of his own squabbling nature laid bare. "That is to say, One: what are the rules of our engagement, our ultimate goals or ideals, and by what methods shall we be empowered for achieving this considerable task?"
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Nov 6, 2023 02:45
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Avantus Benussman Looking at all these exotic foreigners, Avantus can’t help but wonder out loud. “Are we all come from the same world?Dimension? Reality? Time period? Or even timeline?”
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Nov 6, 2023 03:54
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Swedish Thaumocracy posted:Solijan Ruuh. "As I have explained, the only aid We require of you is your insights and perspectives on how best to acquaint the present societies with our Gifts, so as to ensure the transition itself is optimal and the transformed humanity takes the best shape it can. We do not seek the end of all change, merely the end of violent conflict. We have no doubt that mankind, once transformed, will continue to change and evolve in new directions."
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Nov 6, 2023 07:06
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AJ_Impy posted:Paractas, That-Which-Redeems "When We say 'allowed to exist', We are not pronouncing some dictate of Our own making. That is merely the expression of the inevitable conclusion of human history. Mankind-With-Conflict will not survive. Therefore We say that the forces of history will not 'allow it to exist' for much longer. It is as simple as that." "As for your other question, the Plan itself requires no eliminations of any kind. If such eliminations do take place, they will only come about as a consequence of your own models for the transitive stages and, as such, will fall entirely under your responsibility. "
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Nov 6, 2023 07:21
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Theantero posted:Antonius von Schnee "The kind of conflict Our Plan will put an end to is the conflict which requires harm and loss to resolve itself. The conflict that is destructive. In the Next Stage of Mankind all conflicts will be, by necessity, wholly constructive. That is Our meaning."
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Nov 6, 2023 07:29
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Lux Anima posted:Walthiero Minnesanger (He/They) Wandering Mage-Poet "We ask only for your collective insights. We require nothing further of you, and neither hold you to any particular ideal nor need you to attain any goals. Our Plan is already perfect and has no need for any further assistance or devotion on your part. In here, you may speak freely. Outside, you may act as you wish. We will be the ones to do all the work. Or rather, We have already done it."
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Nov 6, 2023 07:40
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Nyaa posted:Avantus Benussman "There is only one reality. But many human societies. This too We shall change." You all come from the same world, despite all the apparent differences in development. The differences will fade away as humanity progresses.
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Nov 6, 2023 07:47
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Walthiero Minnesanger (He/They) Wandering Mage-PoetAFancyQuestionMark posted:"We ask only for your collective insights. We require nothing further of you, and neither hold you to any particular ideal nor need you to attain any goals. Our Plan is already perfect and has no need for any further assistance or devotion on your part. In here, you may speak freely. Outside, you may act as you wish. We will be the ones to do all the work. Or rather, We have already done it." "Grand." Walthier admitted, beaming. He gave his lute a tinkling plucking of experimental discord, "This is going to be so tragically magical, we're going to make it look easy~!" Walthier spun around as he stepped next to One and struck out a loud and resonant chord on his instrument, addressing the crowd. "All is permitted with magic, it is said, and that might well be true - but karmic balance is in effect as ever, no? Thus, the Golden Rule of treating others as one would themselves must then therefore mean commensurate balancing reactions, if magic were used to harm..."
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Nov 6, 2023 09:43
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Paractas, That-Which-Redeems "Is there not strength in diversity, hardiness in variety? We see it in the fragility of clonal cultivars such as the banana. If there is one society, if there is one orthodoxy in thought, in action, in being, how do we avoid the potential weakness and inflexibility? What safeguards the monoculture from outside context problems?"
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Nov 6, 2023 12:23
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Solijan Ruuh stroked their chin in thought. Consider a tree. In perfect conditions, ample light and rain, fertile soil, protected from industry and corrupting magics, monsters and natural disasters. Such a plant would grow mighty indeed, spreading it's seed wide across the garden. But lacking the fundamental principle of Violence, there would be nothing stopping it's growth. Already so far beyond its kin, it's canopy would blot out the sun before its children could fully lap up its rays. The roots of the elder would drain the ground upon which it stood, leaving the offspring withered. Thus your proposal would sacrifice the future. But your plan is perfect. You expand the garden to allow for growth. The perfect trees spread from horizon to horizon. How wonderful the world should be! For that one type of tree. All others must rightly fall to make room, lest the curators spend eternity shepherding aged relics, sacrificing the Now for the Past. If your plan does not account for these others, who would surely starve in your reign, then you invite violence upon humanity still, from outside forces taxed beyond their own capacities, for such is the way of nature. But to follow the metaphor to its conclusion. The gardener faced with pests and weeds, removes all invaders from the garden, leaving the whole world unified to the point that, for all intents and purposes there is but that one tree, forever. Without violence, the old ways choke all progress. Without competition, there is no reason to adapt, to Change. Why should this state be desirable? It seems counter to reason, even without involving the Teachings. Ah, but you do not truly care, do you? We hear your words and know your heart. You seek Our Council only to facilitate this takeover with calculated efficiency. Why should we aid you, what could you possibly offer in exchange when the price is the world? Swedish Thaumocracy fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Nov 6, 2023 |
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Nov 6, 2023 17:00
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Lux Anima posted:Walthiero Minnesanger (He/They) Wandering Mage-Poet "Thank you for sharing your convictions with everyone, this too may prove to be an invaluable aspect of the conferences. Now, if you please..." You find that you are no longer on stage, but standing back among the crowd. AJ_Impy posted:Paractas, That-Which-Redeems "The Next Stage of Mankind may still contain any number of different ideas and modes of thought. It may even be divided among different communities. But, unlike the old mankind, those divisions shall never engage in destructive conflict. And that makes all the difference." Swedish Thaumocracy posted:Solijan Ruuh stroked their chin in thought. "Consider your garden simile. Presently, the garden is filled with invasive species struggling against each other for light, water and nutrients, chocking one another's growth and forcing all to rot. Such a garden cannot survive for long and is hideous besides. No sane gardener would choose to maintain it in its current state, even when compared against the 'terrible' gardens you warn Us against. Instead, the gardener would do well to work hard to clean it up. Would you cast yourself as a stubborn weed, resisting the gardener's efforts? I would not recommend it." "Make no mistake, Our Plan will bring mankind to the Next Stage, with or without your cooperation. As for what we offer you, it is the opportunity to influence the shape of that future. To take part in directing the greatest transformation humanity will ever know."
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Nov 6, 2023 20:31
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Walthiero Minnesanger (He/They) Wandering Mage-Poet "Like failing to see the forest for the trees," Walthiero assented, more amused than perturbed that he'd somehow been shifted offstage, "they fail to see the orchard for the arborist tending to the needs of many."
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Nov 6, 2023 21:40
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Solijan Ruuh "At least weed gets you high." A smile. A nod. "But we have traded enough barbs. We must admit we are curious and thus, in our magnanimity, we will indulge you. After all, either you are right, and we have no choice, or you are wrong and the future remains as uncertain as it ever was. The only certainty is the here and now, and the only truth to be found in the actions we take."
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Nov 6, 2023 22:27
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The First Gift "That should be enough for the preamble. If you have further questions, We may answer them later. It is time We finally broach the main purpose of today's gathering." The man looks up from his papers and puts aside his glasses. He looks over all of you. "It it time to present the First Gift." *** The hall falls into near total darkness, with only the soft blue glow of the stage providing a sliver of illumination. The crowd is gripped with tight anticipation. You see a bright aura streaming down from up above. You crane your head and spot a floating feminine figure clad in clean white robes. You watch as she gradually descents unto the stage. For some reason, you can't quite make out her face. "Greetings, emissaries of Mankind." The voice seems to come from every direction at once, overwhelming you. It has an ethereal quality to it, and an odd cadence you've never heard before. The bizzare emphasis placed on some words lends them an indescribable sense of otherworldiness and finality. "<We> are Aveline, Sage of the Far Side. After embarking on a long journey, <We> have returned, bearing Gifts." Some of the sounds you hear now are sounds you've never heard before, and wouldn't ordinarily associate with human speech. "The First of these Gifts, many of you have already witnessed first hand. Yet, these Gifts are not for <you> alone, but for all Mankind." "For those who are yet unfamiliar, <We> shall now hold a demonstration. <We> ask that you witness and remember its <power>." The figure holds out her hands, on top of which rests a black cat. Without a doubt, it is the black cat form earlier. It looks around, appearing somewhat bemused. The next moment, it disintegrates into a pile of ash, blown away by a sudden gust of air. Several long moments pass in silence. The pieces of ash gradually return and reassemble themselves into a cat-like figure. It doesn't take long at all for it to manifest bones, skin and black fur. The cat looks around once more and casually licks itself, before jumping off and returning to its owner's side. "<Our> First Gift to you is the power to conquer Death. Mankind's oldest foe. For <conflict>, it is at many times cause, effect and purpose. <Our> First Gift shall beget its end." With that, the figure disappears. Light returns to the hall. *** The goateed man known as Secretary One comes forward once more. "As you well realize by now, the First Gift is immortality. Or rather, it is a substance which induces it. The issue We place before you is twofold." "The first portion concerns the manner of distribution of this elixir. The Plan calls for this solution to be in the grasp of every human alive, but it may be too rapid a shift to give it out all at once. The rate and order of distribution may prove to be of crucial importance in minimizing chaos and preserving the coherency of current societies." "The second portion is about whether or not We should reveal the elixir's method of creation. Given enough time, the mages of mankind are sure to devise it themselves via reverse engineering, but revealing the method at this early stage may have far reaching implications. Should such a revelation be delivered publicly or to certain circles only? If the latter, which ones? These are important questions to consider." "We are certain you understand the value of your perspectives in answering these concerns. We shall act according to your collective decisions on these matters. There is plenty of time to arrive at a consensus. We now yield the stage to you. We shall remain here to answer any questions, but otherwise you are free to discuss at your leisure. This is the purpose you were invited here for, after all." You are now faced with your first collective decision. Everyone, whether Lead Actor or Unnamed Contributor may freely participate in the discussion, propose answers to these two questions and vote for the ones you support. I will go with whatever looks to be closest to thread consensus. AFancyQuestionMark fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Nov 6, 2023 |
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Nov 6, 2023 22:34
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Paractas, That-Which-Redeems “Consider a world where some are immune from death and others are not, and some of those immune are tied into the ways of conflict. Invincible warriors. Politicians whose networks of corruption become unendingly, irrevocably entrenched. An insane immortal on a murder spree, unstoppable, unpunishable. No. If one is free of death, All must be. Upheaval is completely unavoidable. Even this room full of immortals alone is far more than enough to tip the balance. Immortality to everyone, all at once, either into their possession or better yet direct into the bloodstream with no chance to drop it, lose it or have it stolen. The avalanche has already started with us: To save everyone, we must save everyone right now.” Paractas paused. “As for the second question, if we can manage distribution without delay, so too should we be open about what we have done for everyone. It must not be commoditised. No-one should gatekeeper the victory over death. Let all know, so none have the advantage.” “But something to consider. What of new life? Do the children of immortals inherit, or must they be dosed along with their first meal, or their first breath?”
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Nov 6, 2023 23:03
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AJ_Impy posted:Paractas, That-Which-Redeems "Separate essences must be induced separately. Therefore, the children must consume it separately as well. The trait is not inherited."
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Nov 6, 2023 23:19
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Solijan Ruuh "Is no-one, and never and option? No? Did not think so. Very well, we see a few options going forward. The first, the path of Innocence, would see us distribute immortality only to those that have yet to be born. They have no part in the Sins of the world. Let them inherit the eternal future. Only thus could a just society be created. Grant oversight of inventory to midwives, to witches and only the most selfless of monks, no others on pain of exile. The second, the path of Reason, would have us distribute immortality freely to all takers, but only to those that desired it. To force such a fate on the conscious unwilling? We could fathom no more terrible a crime. On this path, we feel that a world spanning network, such as the soon to be obsolete medicants guild should be enough. Oversight is less of a concern. " Brow furrowed, hand stroking a clean shaven chin. "I suppose there is a third path as well. The path of madness. We restrict immortality only to those who commit the gravest of offences towards humanity at large. Yes, let them linger alone in each others company for an eternity or more. We can see no more fitting punishment than this."
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Nov 6, 2023 23:54
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Avantus Benussman "Everyone deserve immortality." Said the person who missed out on immortality while petting the immortal cat. "But maybe a limited form where the person can choose its end by their own will. Ah, except children can't choose until adulthood because those dumbass emo kids wants to embrace death all the time." Nyaa fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Nov 7, 2023 |
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Nov 7, 2023 00:08
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[Voice in the Peanut Gallery] "Well s'one way to bring an end to violence, innit?" "Cept it doesn't, an it won't." "Stops death clear nuff but seems more a curse'n anything." "Won't stop people from fightin, just makes it worse 'cause now there isn't an out for the poor unluckiest bastards." "If anything it'll make folks fight more n'do worse just to make sure the other guy can't get up again." "Now if there's an escape clause, no strings attached just poof done, well..." "That's still rough no doubt 'bout it. But least it's something." "My two-bits? Immortality for none. Awful lot kinder that way, mark my words." "Don't share the recipe either, let the poor buggers who figure it out lonesome be the ones stuck with it, don't want it spreading further than it already has."
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Nov 7, 2023 00:53
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Antonius von Schnee "It is certainly my hope", the mage spoke, "That the Sage, in their wisdom ever so great, has in fact taken into account 'Hanging out together in Eternal Heat Death' scenarios and other such insipid Philosophy 101 objections." "Assuming that, immortality for everyone seems the most ethical choice to me. There might be chaos, yes, but so what? Everybody is immortal now so we can take our time fixing all that up. And it would certainly be rather rude to tell some subset of people that it is their obligation to die simply so that the immortals might have it easier for their first century or so." "Share the Recipe too, why not?"
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Nov 7, 2023 02:00
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Walthiero Minnesanger (He/They) Wandering Mage-Poet "The Great Last Sage thought it wise to entrust us with immortality, a miraculous something that must clearly be shared with everyone, including its creation." "I think it stands to reason, too, that if the rollout cannot be instant, we should each be allowed to personally help provide avenues for the dispensation of these immortality serums, if need be..." Walthiero winked at One after this, they couldn't tell if it went unnoticed by the figurehead or not.
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Nov 7, 2023 02:43
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Theantero posted:Antonius von Schnee Solijan Ruuh "Remind me again, which scholarly discipline was it that held that Death was final? That hung their fundamental principles on the impossibility of the very things happening before us?" Solijan Ruuh waited just an instant shorter than the carefully calculated minimum that decorum would allow before continuing. "Face it. The Old Ways are shattered. We can assume nothing. If this Sage had a solution to hunger and pain, would they not have led with that? Why cast humanity into needless, eternal suffering? No, they are conquerors amusing themselves as we squabble over our punishment." "The best we can do is follow the Teachings of Khet, which hold fast that nothing has meaning but the moment, the choice. Thus, we offer Choice to the masses - and let them condemn or exalt themselves as they wish. To do otherwise would be barbaric."
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Nov 7, 2023 13:42
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Swedish Thaumocracy posted:Solijan Ruuh Antonius von Schnee Antonius clicked his tongue. He had been avoiding the cultist on purpose (indeed, despite not being overtly involved in politics, even Antonius knew of Ruuh. Bad news, that one, as the figureheads of nihilistic death cults tended to be), but that probably wasn't going to be a strategy with long term viability if they were forced to cooperate on this project. "Yes", his tone was dry, "The willingness and capacity to form reasonable inference about the actual functioning of the World at large based on what actually occurs in it is quite different between our respective philosophical traditions." "I believe I will still continue to assume that the actual literal Sage that has somehow seemingly cracked secrets nobody else could is in fact, not a moron. If that is fine with you, that is." "I will revise this opinion if I am at any point given reason to presume otherwise."
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Nov 7, 2023 14:23
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Avantus Benussman Avantus shakes his head in silent. It seem some adult haven’t grown out of their emo death seeking phase.
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Nov 7, 2023 15:43
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Solijan Ruuh "If we are to take them at their word, we only know they have a Plan to Reduce Violent Conflict to Zero in order to preserve their vision of humanity. They care not one whit whether this view aligns with Ours or not. In this manner they may as well be a hurricane for all the good our works have accomplished thus far. But unlike most (non religious) hurricanes, it comes with an Avatar, which has instructed us to choose the manner in which our eventual fate will be delivered. Thus the question, who would we have live forever? You say Everyone. We would have you back this proposal with some reason beyond your faith - Solijan Ruuh let the word sink in before continuing - in this Sage." "Let us take on a simile once more. The garden, why not, as everyone should now be familiar with it. We have a myriad of flowers, weeds to cull and gnomes with which to decorate it. Your approach would preserve the garden in its current state. Not pristine, but broken. Could we with this mystical Gardeners aid still make the Garden thrive? Even if we grant them their claim, that they have remedy for Death, we must still consider the state of the Flowers we are saving." "A mother who has lost her child. She will live forever with grief." "A poisoner, a foul malefactor who finds pleasure only in the suffering of others. Free to share their gifts of pain for eternity." "An old, doddering fool, cared for by their burdened relatives in his vegetative state forevermore." "The burn victim. The plague sufferer. - Perhaps with Time no longer a factor, we could graft enough skin to cover them anew. But what will remain of their sanity?" "The Foe. The Rival. The Superior. You will never again know solace in letting things go." "The man who stands in line at market, counting copper pieces one by one. Eternity will truly feel like forever." "Need We go on? To force Immortality upon the living world is monstrous. Let them die, if they so wish."
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Nov 7, 2023 18:09
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Antonius von Schnee "You are not incorrect that instead of engaging with the scenario as presented by a being whose aptitudes are already showcased by the very situation we find ourselves in, I could instead put my 'faith' as you so cleverly put it, in you and your empty platitudes." "I simply do not find that a very compelling choice, is all."
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Nov 7, 2023 18:15
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Theantero posted:Antonius von Schnee Solijan Ruuh "So make your reasoning clear, that all may be enlightened by your intellect, oh scholar. Why should the burn victim, the grieving mother or the feebleminded be granted eternal suffering? Or do you not have those at the Academy?"
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Nov 7, 2023 18:25
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Antonius von Schnee "We do not, in fact, have eternal suffering at the Institute, no. And the reason for that is because nobody has that, nor has it been established that anybody will have that. This scenario exists only within your head. I understand that perhaps that is enough for you, taken your proclivities, but the fact of the matter is that you're currently engaging in a game of 'he said, she said' with an ascendant sage." "It is unconvincing and tiresome."
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Nov 7, 2023 18:33
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Solijan Ruuh "They have not set forth a an explanation for how their plan deals with suffering. When they do, we will revise our opinion. Until then, we must work with that we have. They have shown the apparent ability to destroy and reconstitute a cat, but the cat was alive and in good health before their showcase, and, as you may have noticed, a cat." "By their own words must one imbibe the potion to achieve this state. This means that those who have already passed are gone from us forever. Surely even you must realize this means that there are people in this world who may not want to go on, having lost those near and dear to themselves? That there exists pain that goes beyond the flesh?"
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Nov 7, 2023 18:43
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Antonius von Schnee "But is there, though? Show your work." Antonius sighs and rubs the bridge of his nose. "You keep circling these platitudes that only you find profound."
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Nov 7, 2023 18:48
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Secretary One raises his hand, as if requesting the crowd's permission to speak. "While We are loath to intervene directly in your discussion, there is an underlying matter, that has been at the core of several of the recent exchanges, which We ought to clarify. Conquering Death doesn't mean that you lose the ability to invite it in. That is to say, so long as you consciously will it, there are methods to cease living even after consuming the elixir." "In addition, one of the elixir's effects is the decoupling of your essence from your material body, so that its physical condition need not affect the state of your continued existence. Therefore, even without resorting to any drastic measures, it is possible to evade or mitigate much of the suffering some of you have alluded to."
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Nov 7, 2023 18:49
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