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The offline character apparently has Legend of Zelda races now, so you can probably get the essentials classes. Fantasy Grounds is easier to get going if you have all the 4e libraries, which... I think you kinda have to figure out how to get at this point. It keeps track of a lot of things automatically (when you daze someone until the end of your next turn, the program knows that it grants combat advantage, and also that creature becomes undazed automatically at the end of your next turn), which is really convenient. It costs money, though: either everyone has to pay, or the DM has to pay for the Ultimate Edition. I'm not sure how good it is at the whole "drawing maps" thing, so pre-making maps may be required, and basically unalterable once you get started. However, Fantasy Grounds is fully capable of doing things like "Everyone I curse takes -2 attack penalty to me" and "Any of my allies that attacks a dazed enemies gets my int modifier bonus to attack" at the push of a (properly made) button, which is pretty fancy stuff. It also understands how marking works, so it'll be -2 to attack someone who isn't the defender, but it won't include the -2 if it's an area attack that includes the defender. It's basically really fancy, once you know how to use it. It's been recently updated so that players can remove buffs that they have put on, so if you have multiple defenders or people popping curses, that's less on the DM's plate. This does take some know-how, though, and again, it ain't cheap. Roll20 has a lot of tools, including prebuilt 4e character sheets and the ability to make power cards, but it takes study to get the most out of it (it helps to have at least some comfort with something akin to a programming language). It's completely free. If you want things like status trackers, though, you're going to have to dig a bit. You CAN do a lot with it, but it'll take a lot more work to do fancy stuff, so in the end remembering things like when effects end and who has what on them is more up to you and the players unless you put a lot of work into it. There's a scripting language that can do a lot of stuff, but you have to sign up to a subscription to get full access to a lot of those kinds of things. It's a lot easier to freehand maps, have background music, and roll 3d7s if you feel the need. I'd say Fantasy Grounds is much more structured, and if you can get the libraries a lot easier to work with right out of the box, but Roll20 gives you more freedom with what you CAN do, but it can be a pain to do it. Gharbad the Weak fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Nov 26, 2017 |
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Nov 26, 2017 20:52
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Alternatively, use Masterplan, if a friendly poster can supply you with it. Among other things, it has a dedicated separate player view that you can throw on a second screen hooked up to the laptop. e: I should say it doesn't so much draw maps as you can import map images and overlay a grid which the program conforms to. Or make a library of map tiles and create maps from those. My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Nov 26, 2017 |
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Nov 26, 2017 21:09
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Hobbes posted:I'm planning to help get a 4E game up and running mostly off the physical copies of the 4 essentials books, but its been a while and I'd really rather only stick to stuff we have in front of us instead of trying to flip through pdfs at the table. Did the offline character builder ever get updated with Essentials classes or is it best to just do it by hand? This is what you want https://www.staples.ca/en/Quartet-Graph-Bond-Flip-Chart-Easel-Pad-24-x-36-50-Sheets/product_975150_1-CA_1_20001 Make your players draw the maps. Everyone loves drawing maps.
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Nov 26, 2017 21:10
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"Ok guys, it was funny the first couple of times but the next map cannot be dick-shaped. I'm serious this time."
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Nov 26, 2017 21:17
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Dick Burglar posted:"Ok guys, it was funny the first couple of times but the next map cannot be dick-shaped. I'm serious this time."
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Nov 26, 2017 21:29
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Gharbad the Weak posted:The offline character apparently has Legend of Zelda races now, so you can probably get the essentials classes. I've got the library files for FG if you need em. As Gharbad says, the automation is great for 4e in Fantasy Grounds. However the map drawing leaves something to be desired (mainly, a program that handles map drawing well). If you're going to run it from a single computer, however, you can get by with a standard license for that one computer since no one will be needing to connect to it. Otherwise if you want everyone to bring their own device either you all need a standard license ($40 or 4/month sub each) or the DM will need ultimate ($120 or 10/month sub). If you're just after a mapping tool for the table, it might be better using maptools or Roll20, but if you want to engage with the effects and combat tracking then FG blows the others out of the water.
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Nov 26, 2017 21:32
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PMush Perfect posted:Do the two stack? I thought they were both feat bonuses. Typed bonuses never stack, untyped bonuses do (and are usually only found on some leader powers as a result).
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Nov 27, 2017 03:40
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fog boar posted:I updated 4e Remix. A first pass on the Paladin and Beastmaster Ranger are finished. PM me for the pastebin if you're interested and don't have it yet. Text files are encoded in UTF-8 and have Windows line endings so they should open properly in Notepad. What is this? My group of friends has been playing a campaign on 4e, since that's what the DM is most familiar with, recently, and we love it. I'm glad to read the discussion here about math fixes and other tweaks to make it the best experience possible, though 
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Nov 27, 2017 20:19
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slap me and kiss me posted:This is what you want I did manage to find my old sheet of plexiglass with a grid drawn on the backside and the stash of dry erase markers that go with it. Trying to get the band back together over the holidays but that's only for a short stint. After that everyone will be in different states, so I'm going to try and train them on a virtual table top some so we can continue from afar. Thanks for the advice all. Probably going to give Fantasy Grounds a try first, because if I need to draw a map up from scratch I'd rather do it in Illustrator/Photoshop anyway and slap a grid on top and automation is very tempting. Hobbes fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Nov 28, 2017 |
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Nov 28, 2017 21:26
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Can I also have a PM to the offline character builder?
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Nov 28, 2017 22:22
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Yukari posted:Can I also have a PM to the offline character builder?
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Nov 28, 2017 22:37
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Yes the offline builder was updated, though unnoficially. I prefer Roll20 because it has more in the way of customization.
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Dec 6, 2017 22:19
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Moriatti posted:
In what way?
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Dec 7, 2017 01:57
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Spiteski posted:In what way? At least when I looked into Fantasy Grounds there wasn't a whole lot of options that worked outside of round tokens. Which made using video game sprites and RPG maker maps harder for me. There's also a lot that can be done with Macros as well, which is good for dicepool systems. Though, I have never delved into Fantasy Grounds on this.
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Dec 7, 2017 02:20
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Moriatti posted:At least when I looked into Fantasy Grounds there wasn't a whole lot of options that worked outside of round tokens. Which made using video game sprites and RPG maker maps harder for me. I use top-down tokens for FG2 and it works totally fine. I think it even looks better, because it fits into the map view better. You just need to provide your own tokens for stuff, and can use any image file for this. I like Devin Night tokens myself.
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Dec 7, 2017 17:13
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I may have to look into FG again then. Thank you!
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Dec 7, 2017 18:58
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On a scale of "Frostcheese" to "do not bring this to a real game", how broken is Chordswitch and Killswitch, or other variants of such? Or is it okay to bring because it's only enabling other players?
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Dec 7, 2017 21:24
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Yukari posted:On a scale of "Frostcheese" to "do not bring this to a real game", how broken is Chordswitch and Killswitch, or other variants of such? Or is it okay to bring because it's only enabling other players? The only 4E build I know of that you shouldn't use (because it uses 3E-style bad faith assumptions and completely breaks the core damage math) is Rebreather.
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Dec 7, 2017 21:36
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Yukari posted:On a scale of "Frostcheese" to "do not bring this to a real game", how broken is Chordswitch and Killswitch, or other variants of such? Or is it okay to bring because it's only enabling other players? They're a bit broke if the party optimizes around them with basics and whatnot. If it's just a random party and people are just building what they like, you can tool around and bring out the big nova when you need to. If you want to do big nova every encounter it might wear on the GM, but the difference between Frostcheese and Rebreather is orders of magnitude bigger than the difference between Standard Warlord and Chordswitch/Killswitch. Like, a well-optimized warlord does a lot of the same things just with less numbers attached.
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Dec 7, 2017 21:41
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Yukari posted:On a scale of "Frostcheese" to "do not bring this to a real game", how broken is Chordswitch and Killswitch, or other variants of such? Or is it okay to bring because it's only enabling other players? Rebreather/Machine-gun DragonSorc is really the only build you should never play. -switch builds are definitely exercises in optimization and are really strong, but they're not going to break anything. e: beat
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Dec 7, 2017 21:44
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While it's not anywhere near Rebreather, radiant mafia should also probably not be played.
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Dec 7, 2017 21:46
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TheDemon posted:They're a bit broke if the party optimizes around them with basics and whatnot. If it's just a random party and people are just building what they like, you can tool around and bring out the big nova when you need to. If you want to do big nova every encounter it might wear on the GM, but the difference between Frostcheese and Rebreather is orders of magnitude bigger than the difference between Standard Warlord and Chordswitch/Killswitch. Like, a well-optimized warlord does a lot of the same things just with less numbers attached. I expect there to be a TWF ranger but mostly unoptimized unless if pushed towards the optimal solutions, otherwise people are probably just bringing whatever they want. A Warden, some hybrid cavalier/sorc or just a sorc, me, TWF ranger, and ???? are the party members I think. Currently, the gameplan looks like "everyone charges in and fucks up the enemy in melee" Edit: Radiant Mafia is also considered problematic? Why? Just because of the giant party synergy and reliance on lightsabers?
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Dec 7, 2017 21:48
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Yukari posted:I expect there to be a TWF ranger but mostly unoptimized unless if pushed towards the optimal solutions, otherwise people are probably just bringing whatever they want. A Warden, some hybrid cavalier/sorc or just a sorc, me, TWF ranger, and ???? are the party members I think. Currently, the gameplan looks like "everyone charges in and fucks up the enemy in melee" Radiant Mafia is a party-wide build-around based on stacking radiant vulnerability. If you have one guy loaded up on radiant synergy, it's frost level but far from broken. Two is effective. Three or more multiplies. Obviously a full party built around one synergy is going to be very powerful.
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Dec 7, 2017 21:57
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Basically I think it's fair to admit that 4e didn't do a great job with vulnerability, and it needs a patch of some kind. Builds that explicitly exploit it (instead of just plain using it) should be avoided. If you find yourself doing everything possible to stack separate damage instances, it's a problem. Frostcheese itself isn't really that cheesy - I have a winter hexblade with the feats in my game, and it's nice but not game-ruining.
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Dec 7, 2017 22:22
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dwarf74 posted:Basically I think it's fair to admit that 4e didn't do a great job with vulnerability, and it needs a patch of some kind. Builds that explicitly exploit it (instead of just plain using it) should be avoided. If you find yourself doing everything possible to stack separate damage instances, it's a problem. That's why I said Frostcheese as the lower end. I've been told in the past that nowadays, frostcheese isn't really... cheesy. It's just a strong option.
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Dec 7, 2017 23:05
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Generic Octopus posted:Rebreather/Machine-gun DragonSorc is really the only build you should never play. -switch builds are definitely exercises in optimization and are really strong, but they're not going to break anything. It's also worth noting that ;switch builds in particular, pre-Epic, really rely on having at least SOMEONE in the team with good basics. If you're in a party with nobody you can swing, you're gonna have a tough time.
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Dec 7, 2017 23:56
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dwarf74 posted:Basically I think it's fair to admit that 4e didn't do a great job with vulnerability, and it needs a patch of some kind. Builds that explicitly exploit it (instead of just plain using it) should be avoided. If you find yourself doing everything possible to stack separate damage instances, it's a problem. I've seen a rather ham-fisted "Vulnerability can only be triggered by any damage from a single power once per turn." that seemed to work OK. That or a "dude, you're trying to break Vulnerabilty over your knee, can we not do that?"
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Dec 8, 2017 00:15
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 A minor disagreement has cropped up in my game: do you choose one element when you activate that stance and stick with it, or choose the element on each attack?
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Dec 8, 2017 00:38
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I don't think you're gonna get a concrete answer on that one. Probably DM discretion.
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Dec 8, 2017 00:50
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Spiteski posted:I've seen a rather ham-fisted "Vulnerability can only be triggered by any damage from a single power once per turn." that seemed to work OK.
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Dec 8, 2017 01:09
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The Crotch posted:
Flavour text suggests the former but DM's decision, really. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Dec 8, 2017 |
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Dec 8, 2017 01:22
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Lemon-Lime posted:Flavour text suggests the latter but DM's decision, really. In a practical sense, though, there will almost always be one right (or at least several equally right) choices for an entire encounter.
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Dec 8, 2017 01:24
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I meant former and not latter. 
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Dec 8, 2017 01:26
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dwarf74 posted:Flavor text is ambiguous too, imo.
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Dec 8, 2017 01:47
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The Crotch posted:It came up in the last session because oops, suddenly demons! and their variable resistance. Yeah just expect table variation. I'd probably let you switch it up, but I can see the argument from the other side too.
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Dec 8, 2017 01:54
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I'll probably let him switch it up because -2 attack is a pretty substantial penalty, anyway.
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Dec 8, 2017 02:39
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I would read “cold, fire, or lightning (your choice)” as a damage type in and of itself. If they wanted you to choose one the power would probably read like “Choose cold, fire, or lightning. Until the stance ends...” Also it’s the stance of chaos, come on.
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Dec 8, 2017 08:47
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The main problem with Radiant Mafia, speaking as someone who GMed against a group that did it, is its consistency and lack of downsides. On paper it looks reasonably strong, but not overwhelming - you have to chain things up just right to get the really bonkers numbers, and there are other builds that do that with fewer moving parts. And besides, a monster is just as dead if dealt three times its total HP as when dealt one and a half times its full HP.  But I couldn't throw counters at that party build that didn't feel really cheap. Other party set ups, the weaknesses I could exploit to create a harder than normal but fair encounter were built into the game. The party with lots of AoE and CC got solos, the ones without AoE got oozes and minion swarms, frostcheese got an arctic adventure. But the only way to do the same to radiant felt unfair and very mechanical. Plus, even if they only got two party members in sync, that still provided some bonus, and they hadn't given up much to have that option. So even if they missed their chance to get everyone lined up, at worst they were as good as a generic party.
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Dec 8, 2017 14:51
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I set up an entire subplot about Aasimar being marooned in the Shadowfell and running a protection racket just so I could make a dumb joke about a Radiant ... Mafia
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Dec 8, 2017 14:56
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gradenko_2000 posted:I set up an entire subplot about Aasimar being marooned in the Shadowfell and running a protection racket just so I could make a dumb joke about a Radiant ... Mafia Worth the groans.
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Dec 8, 2017 22:52
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