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Paul MaudDib posted:Your opinion matters, you just lost the election. That's how democracy works. You’re right that your opinion doesn’t matter. Not for the reasons you are thinking though. I went through that thread, just 4 or 5 pages for entirely masochistic reasons. I could compile a huge effort post pointing out the similarities between Chavez and Trump, and how populists appropriate ideologies to gain power and then go on to erode democracy slowly, but I feel like I’d be wasting my time. I can only imagine the shitfit you would throw if the leader of the Democratic College or whatever equivalent to the head of the CNE spoke out with public funds to say we must continue with Trump’s 21st Century America project at all costs like our dear friend Tibisay did. Your opinion doesn’t matter because despite what you say, you are still grossly misinformed on Venezuela, to a degree which I find insulting that you even try to come in here and teach us, who lived through it, about it. Your opinion doesn’t matter because you put your own feelings above facts, above the lives of Venezuelans rich and poor, and when confronted with the fact that you held an incorrect opinion, you twist the entire situation to turn yourself into the victim of the mass famine and decay of our country. Your opinion doesn’t matter because you know nothing, and in half a decade, have successfully learned nothing.
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May 5, 2018 16:47
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Furia posted:You’re right that your opinion doesn’t matter. Not for the reasons you are thinking though. MaudDib shows their ignorance by conflating free elections with fair election. Chavez's last election was a fairly free election, and in no conceivable manner a fair election. Free means that individuals are allowed to vote for whomever they wish, without fear of personal reprocussions. Fair means that political parties have the same or similar access to opportunities to win votes. A fair election would mean an independent media not beholden to obeying ruling party dictates for broadcasts; that public funds would in no way directly go towards supporting the ruling party's campaign efforts. I do not know enough Venezuelan history to know whether fair elections existed before the first election of Chavez. From following Venezuelan politics since Chavez, I can say that there appears to have been no fair elections after Chavez. I do believe that free elections in Venezuela died the first time after the results failed to conform with the ruling party's ideology.
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May 5, 2018 17:17
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My Imaginary GF posted:Free means that individuals are allowed to vote for whomever they wish, without fear of personal reprocussions Some Venegoons said that their friends and family suffered blowback due to their votes for the opposition. Was this true even in the Chavez era? I’m not well researched in how elections are considered fair, but my impression is that the people making these calls tend to have big blind spots. In the US, a lot of effort goes into getting people off the voter rolls and making voting location access more difficult.
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May 5, 2018 17:53
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I know in the US, last attempt to stuff the supreme court with extra sympathetic judges was in the 1930's, under FDR. There was a huge political battle over it back then. FDR got some of his new deal legislation declared unconstitutional, and he wanted to force through reforms he was reelected for. In venezuela, that attempt actually succeeded, and the judiciary is now a corrupt arm of the psuv. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_Procedures_Reform_Bill_of_1937
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May 5, 2018 18:11
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Labradoodle posted:
My... mi hermano Same!
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May 5, 2018 18:14
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Hugoon Chavez posted:My... mi hermano Same here too. Came for the articles, enjoyed LT’s youtube channel and then got my own account years later
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May 5, 2018 18:20
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Pharohman777 posted:I know in the US, last attempt to stuff the supreme court with extra sympathetic judges was in the 1930's, under FDR. There was a huge political battle over it back then. This was in response the the Lochner era levels of actual judcial activism which are largely seen as the judicial branch making it literally impossible for the government to make law regarding the economy. Even Robert loving Bork called it, "the symbol, indeed the quintessence, of judicial usurpation of power" Comparing it to Venezuela is insane.
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May 5, 2018 19:39
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Brazilian football team will be carrying its own food to Venezuela because the hotel ain't gonna have nothing, it seems. (In Portuguese) https://gauchazh.clicrbs.com.br/esp...qobe2grtt0.html
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May 5, 2018 21:07
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ryde posted:Some Venegoons said that their friends and family suffered blowback due to their votes for the opposition. Was this true even in the Chavez era? Yes. Voter intimidation and retaliation against opposition voters was rampant in the Chavez era. Probably the most famous example of this is the Tascon List. As you can imagine, the fear that the release of the list caused among people lasted years and years. It's impossible to calculate how many didn't vote for opposition candidates or voted for regime candidates in subsequent elections over fears of a Tascon List 2.0. To give you a more recent example, Maduro threatened public sector workers to vote in the Constituent Assembly election last year "or else". During a televised address a few weeks before the election, Maduro said: quote:Grab the rosters of every public institution and company to set up a Constituent Committee in each company, and call on all of the workers to organize how they are going to go vote on July 30 (...) At the end of the day, go over the roster. If [the company] has 15,000 workers, 15,000 workers should have voted without excuse. If this is what's going on at the level of national discourse, you can imagine the kind of harassment and pressure that workers get by their managers to vote for the government. That's just two examples. You could write a book on how unfair the Venezuelan electoral system is.
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May 5, 2018 21:31
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Hugoon Chavez posted:My... mi hermano My 10$ were a gift from an aunt that had some leftovers from the online money CADIVI used to sell. I was lured in by The Dark Id's and Chip Cheezum's LPs. I have a Banesco account and this sucks because a friend occasionaly sent me a bit of money that I used to buy seeds or meds for my cattle  .I would also feel super lovely if I just left now that said aunt have been diagnosed with cancer and she has few relatives that would help her through it.
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May 5, 2018 22:34
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Earlier today, Jacqueline Faria was taking part in what looks like a campaign rally somewhere in Caracas. Jacqueline--who is a high-ranking member of the PSUV and former cabinet minister--lost control of the crowd and stormed off the stage. The event was captured on video. In the video, a woman wearing a blue Chavez t-shirt shows Faria a food container which--based on the context--barely contains any food at all. Faria asks the media present at the event to leave the area, likely fearing that they would capture a humiliating exchange. The crowd doesn't want any of it, and Faria storms off the stage. [EDIT: This video was actually recorded yesterday at a protest staged by Caracas municipality workers. The protest was about the poor quality of the food that they receive from the regime's CLAP subsidized food system, and over the fact that while they have paid for CLAP food they have not received it recently]. Here is the video and my translation is below: https://twitter.com/ElyangelicaNews/status/992904800445632512 quote:Woman in Blue: [Showing Faria a container] Look, this is the food we're eating here in Venezuela... [unintelligible]... Faria was Minister of Communication at one point. She is famous for saying that lining up for food was fun, and for overseeing a project that spent more than $600 million to clean up the Guaire river in Caracas. Faria promised to be done by 2014, but the money **cough** disappeared **cough** and the river is more polluted today than it's ever been. Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 02:26 on May 6, 2018 |
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May 6, 2018 00:36
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 quote:Faria: Because--wait a minute, wait a minute--the other thing is that this is right-wing press.  Help, I can't stop smiling and giggling.
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May 6, 2018 01:02
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Paul MaudDib posted:Hi guys, "At least I don't exploit the misery of others to score political points  "Thanks for coming by and reminding us it is still a DnD thread. I might have been tempted to click on another thread in here.
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May 6, 2018 17:52
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Homeroom Fingering posted:"At least I don't exploit the misery of others to score political points Nah, they just ignore the misery of others so that they can put brutes who cloak themselves in revolutionary and anti-imperialist rethoric on a pedestal.
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May 6, 2018 18:13
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What would be the best way to help a venegoon from the US or to help one leave Venezuela?
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May 7, 2018 10:31
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KingFisher posted:What would be the best way to help a venegoon from the US or to help one leave Venezuela? What he's saying. Not that I often could, but after I get job and figure out my move to FL, I'm likely to have money to spend, and knowing somewhere trustworthy I could put $20-30 per month to help Venezuelans exit that place would be a good way of paying it forward, I think.
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May 7, 2018 13:43
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Look at this, the Bolivar is worth more as a bag making material than actual money. Reckon these bags made out of bank notes will retain value a lot better than the Bolivar too.
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May 7, 2018 15:20
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Is it bad that I would absolutely buy one?
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May 7, 2018 15:36
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Spacewolf posted:What he's saying. Not that I often could, but after I get job and figure out my move to FL, I'm likely to have money to spend, and knowing somewhere trustworthy I could put $20-30 per month to help Venezuelans exit that place would be a good way of paying it forward, I think. Yep, what does it take to get one venegoon out?
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May 9, 2018 11:25
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Since the airport in Caracas is a joke most venegoons have taken to ride a bus to Colombia, and take a plane from Bogotá to anywhere else in the world. The bus ride is relatively cheap compared to plane tickets.
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May 9, 2018 15:58
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KingFisher posted:Yep, what does it take to get one venegoon out? I think the only venegoon inside the country right now is Blue Nation, the guy who posted just above me. Several others have posted in the thread, but most of us already got out over the last few years. Blue Nation posted:Since the airport in Caracas is a joke most venegoons have taken to ride a bus to Colombia, and take a plane from Bogotá to anywhere else in the world. The bus ride is relatively cheap compared to plane tickets. Man, that loving airport is nervewracking. Last time I flew out of there I went in super paranoid because of all the stories I heard about the national guard stealing your stuff and shaking people down for USD.
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May 9, 2018 16:21
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Labradoodle posted:I think the only venegoon inside the country right now is Blue Nation, the guy who posted just above me. Several others have posted in the thread, but most of us already got out over the last few years. El Hefe was still in Vzla and his last post was in december of 2016.
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May 10, 2018 00:14
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Labradoodle posted:I think the only venegoon inside the country right now is Blue Nation, the guy who posted just above me. Several others have posted in the thread, but most of us already got out over the last few years. That said, if push comes to shove, I could accept leaving the country after graduating with just my Birth Certificate, High School Documents and all the worries for getting the Criminal Records (the last only lasts for three months) and work abroad to earn enough for my Programmer Certifications. Likewise, I have to wait for my sister to start investing in getting her Dental Assistant License now that she got her Work Permit in the States... Anyways, going by land through Colombia is currently the most sensible option to get out of the nation, but leaving is something one has to do with a clear plan. AstraSage fucked around with this message at 02:10 on May 10, 2018 |
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May 10, 2018 02:00
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Labradoodle posted:
I swear if I turn out to be wrong and there's an afterlife, hell will look like Maiquetía to me.
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May 10, 2018 06:58
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AstraSage posted:I'm also still in Venezuela, but I honestly can't see myself leaving the country in the short term while I can't get my parents to have at least their Birth Certificates Apostille-verified (which has been a nightmare of two months working with multiple bureaucratic platforms). Where do you live and how much do arepas cost, in either $ or hours of work/effort?
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May 10, 2018 07:51
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My Imaginary GF posted:Where do you live and how much do arepas cost, in either $ or hours of work/effort? Word of advice: This is the most annoying thing to ask a Venezuelan. Besides I haven't visited if Arepa Dinner since months, so I can't give an accurate price for one, and the closest thing I knew about was that an Empanada was going for Bs. 150.000ºº two weeks ago but the minimum wage got a raise on this Month's First so that price is definitely outdated. Also, Corn Flour itself has a bit of a very warped pricing: the regulated versions has a definitely-sold-at-a-loss price of Bs. 25.000 and unregulated versions (like Corn & Rice) can be found at supermarkets at around the Bs. 150.000 price mark and that doesn't include whatever else you need to buy as fillings for Arepas (For starters, the classic dozen of Eggs costs a Million and a whole Chicken, which weights around a pound, costs Four Millions). That said, one rule of thumb still stands: $30 can feed a "middle" class family of four an entire month, but to get that amount in Bolivares you'd need to be able to earn the equivalent of ten minimum wages and there's a current trend that Cash is worth three times its printed value thanks to its scarcity... Also, Hell is made of waiting lines, paperwork and badly designed web platforms.
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May 10, 2018 08:53
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AstraSage posted:Word of advice: This is the most annoying thing to ask a Venezuelan. I apologize for the annoyance of the question. You answer it with good information. What we hear in American press is that Venezuela is a failing state, that medications are of such critical shortage thay individuals are dying due to a lack of them, that food costs are sky high for the average individual so much so that hundreds of thousands are streaming to Brazil to live, that your money is worthless and continuing to depreciate. Would a less annoying question be, 'What are you favorite/least favorite lines to wait in?'
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May 10, 2018 09:08
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This article is making me think that the "election" could be a tinder box: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-07/venezuelan-soldiers-said-to-desert-in-droves-with-vote-ahead quote:Military officers are joining the exodus of Venezuelans to Colombia and Brazil, fleeing barracks and forcing President Nicolas Maduro’s government to call upon retirees and militia to fill the void. Arkane fucked around with this message at 12:07 on May 10, 2018 |
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May 10, 2018 12:05
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My Imaginary GF posted:I apologize for the annoyance of the question. You answer it with good information. What we hear in American press is that Venezuela is a failing state, that medications are of such critical shortage thay individuals are dying due to a lack of them, that food costs are sky high for the average individual so much so that hundreds of thousands are streaming to Brazil to live, that your money is worthless and continuing to depreciate. IMO How horrible waiting in line is depends also where do you live. I once waited 5 hours without shade at 35°C (95°F) in Maracaibo, and hated every minute of it. Waiting inside a bank is much more pleasant because there is AC and no Chavez/Maduro/PSUV sympathiser who feels the need to tell you that everything is the US's fault, said bank is in Merida, and people are nicer there as well. The office where I pay my electricity bill has a poster announcing "we don't speak ill of Chavez here" so everyone talks about how inefficient the service is. The most cheerful line I've been part of was when I was getting a new ID at the SAIME because mine was about to expire, and those getting a passport where happy to be a step closer to getting out of here.
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May 10, 2018 12:06
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Arkane posted:This article is making me think that the "election" could be a tinder box: Wait, they're openly bringing in the colectivos to do a military job they don't have the manpower for?
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May 10, 2018 15:33
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Are there ways to remit money without it getting confiscated by the authorities?
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May 10, 2018 16:33
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ryde posted:Are there ways to remit money without it getting confiscated by the authorities? Yeah, it's pretty easy actually. Usually, I just use a service or send someone I know money via PayPal and they transfer bolivares to my account. There's a lot of people that send remittances regularly, so it's never hard to find someone to 'buy' your foreign currency. There are also people you can pay via foreign banks, a healthy Bitcoin market, and more. Keep in mind, though, that foreign currency itself never enters Venezuelan accounts since our financial system is cut off from the rest of the world. What happens is, even exchanging $100 amounts to a lot of bolivares (around BsF 70,000,000 right now) so some local banks will get on your case about where that money came from. Banesco is the largest private bank in the country right now and most remittance services use it primarily since it's reliable. The fear is the government will now seize the bank, pay close attention to those kind of transfers, and block accounts if they think you're participating in the buying or selling of foreign currency. Naturally, what they really want is to have remittances come through them, so they can offer shittier rates and pocket that money. They know people have no choice but to send money home, so it's a big gently caress you to people that depend on remittances to survive. For now, though, Banesco is still working as usual, so we'll see how that shakes out.
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May 10, 2018 17:39
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I know it seems like I just pop into this thread to advocate for US intervention, but... https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/05/10/opinion/out-of-good-options-for-venezuela.html The mood in Miami is shifting and there appears to be more support for a (potentially military) US intervention at this time. Personally, I'm losing patience with the situation and could see potential for a limited US military intervention in order to protect both the US's and the Venezuelan people's interests. Considering how infiltrated the NBAF is by Russian and Chinese interests, it seems like a bad idea to allow the NBAF to stage a coup and allow them the opportunity to install a Russia-China aligned authoritarian regime. It's not entirely clear how the US could control who gets installed following the collapse of the Maduro regime. We're staring down the barrel of a de-facto oil embargo as creditors begin seizing Venezuelan assets (ConocoPhillips just began seizing Caribbean PDVSA assets) so the Maduro regime is likely to fall soon (Santos is running around telling everyone this, at least.) My concern is that when the NBAF deposes Maduro they will install someone worse. How can this be controlled?
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May 11, 2018 21:01
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But what advantage does the US gain from intervening militarily in Venezuela, when they can just semi-idly watch 21st Century Socialism make fools out of leftists across the globe?
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May 11, 2018 21:59
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Mukip posted:But what advantage does the US gain from intervening militarily in Venezuela, when they can just semi-idly watch 21st Century Socialism make fools out of leftists across the globe? Distracts from another failed trump infrastructure week
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May 11, 2018 23:56
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Mukip posted:But what advantage does the US gain from intervening militarily in Venezuela, when they can just semi-idly watch 21st Century Socialism make fools out of leftists across the globe? I don't know who they'd be making a fool of exactly. In the US, those arguments don't work because if there's one thing California Democrats and the Trumpian alt-right can agree on wholeheartedly it's that Mexicans are (by genetic predisposition of course) stupid, and Venezuelans are just Oil Mexicans. Whenever I talk to a white liberal in the United States about Venezuela the implication is that socialism failed in Venezuela because "well, it's Latinos, what did you expect?" On the other hand, the US risks making a fool of itself to the entire world if the NBAF installs a Chinese-backed authoritarian regime in its back yard.
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May 12, 2018 00:05
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What kind of interests are US interests and how much would it cost? Isn’t the US moving away from oil dependence and the last thing we want is more foreign intervention. Supporting a budding democracy or new government? Sure. But insisting on US influence instead of peaceful means? I’m not so sure about that and past historical record was terrible
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May 12, 2018 02:58
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caberham posted:What kind of interests are US interests and how much would it cost? Arguably the risk of a growing refugee crisis is a legitimate reason for outside countries in the hemisphere to be concerned, and obviously the current leadership in the US wants to limit immigration (for less legitimate reasons) considerably more than most. Plus even with rising production in the US, an energy shock due to an ongoing collapse in Venezuela could be bad for the global economy. There might even be a few people who genuinely think this is a humanitarian crisis that needs to be solved, who knows. I don't think any overt intervention is particularly likely, as much because I think Trump would ask why other Latin American countries don't just deal with it as anything, but the US does have reasons to be concerned about the continuing catastrophe there.
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May 12, 2018 03:16
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Kinda sad that the US would need to get heavily involved. Colombia and Brazil should be on the front lines of this. The longer this goes on, the worse the endgame is going to be for everyone, especially the neighbors.
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May 12, 2018 04:03
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The US is already putting over 15 million dollars into the relief effort for the refugee crisis.
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May 12, 2018 04:16
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