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evilweasel posted:Lawfare is right. Diplomacy requires the ability to talk privately and losing that ability makes it more difficult to conduct diplomacy which is a bad thing. Doesn't that assume that the diplomacy is between two competent actors though? It'd obviously be bad under a normal administration, but I don't see how this is bad.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:17
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evilweasel posted:Lawfare is right. Diplomacy requires the ability to talk privately and losing that ability makes it more difficult to conduct diplomacy which is a bad thing. This is true but there's a cause-and-effect thing going on: there's more leaking going on because Trump is bad at leadership.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:19
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OddObserver posted:It's not like it's impossible to get people extradited from the UK... but perhaps they didn't want to inconvenience the Ecuadorian embassy? or they wanted to track down local connections as stillvisions said, or preferred to keep it under wraps, or our State Dept is a flaming sack of dog poo poo right now, or whatever
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Aug 3, 2017 20:20
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I hope to god Dennis Miller and Sandra Bullock finally get arrested.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:21
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Tatsuta Age posted:Russian cuisine is awful, that's why they're so evil But the English were never this evil? And the French were never that good. The Italians though are just the right mix of evil and food.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:22
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The other major reason the Turnbull transcript in particular is scary is that the president is trying to welch on a treaty obligation. That's a third rail act. The US just does not function if we can't be trusted implicitly on treaty obligations and commitments because there is no meaningful enforcement mechanism. This is a substantial difference between past awful republican admins and trump. If that credibility is lost then we will lose the ability to broker bilateral agreements that aren't built on the us giving first performance in full or something like that. It's really fundamental.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:22
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evilweasel posted:Lawfare is right. Diplomacy requires the ability to talk privately and losing that ability makes it more difficult to conduct diplomacy which is a bad thing. people seem to forget that lawfare is made up of incredibly established natsec people that strongly believe in the security state I guess i don't see why they draw the line here, given the obvious news value of two transcripts the president overtly lied about.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:23
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yronic heroism posted:This is true but there's a cause-and-effect thing going on: there's more leaking going on because Trump is bad at leadership. Leadership? What's that? A boat?
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Aug 3, 2017 20:23
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Do people not like Russian food?
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Aug 3, 2017 20:24
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Krispy Kareem posted:But the English were never this evil? The English were never this evil just by merit of the fact that in the time that they were doing the most evil people didn't care as much about those kinds of things. Remember that this is the country that attacked China for the right to sell drugs.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:25
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Robot Hobo posted:The thing about alt-righters who accuse others of "Virtue Signalling" is that it tells you a lot about the accuser. When someone says something simple like "sexually assaulting women is bad," they jump to thinking it's some weird liberal secret code, because to them the idea that anyone could actually just believe such things seems too absurd to be possible. Yeah it's straight hosed in the head. A universal trait among alt-right fuckers or even alt-right wannabes that hang out in places like /pol/ is that they are straight paranoid or at least pretending to be and probably actively fishing for any ammo to continue their whole sub-reality narrative circle jerk another day. Anything that portrays women, "minorities" or really any non-straight white male dude bro ideology in any positive fashion for example is ripe for fuel for them to rant and have internet meltdowns over. They particularly love going after things like video games because of the whole gamergate controversy and hot takes on the latest Trump bullshit. It's like their version of low hanging fruit even though the vast majority of what they seize on as a sign of 'virtue signalling" or some sort of liberal conspiracy isn't even a thing. This is one of the reason I argue a lot of it is role play and just teenagers blowing off steam and shitposting about the hot topics they know will inspire attention and outrage for them.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:25
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Do people not like Russian food? Ice cold tomato soup and dried beets are my cheat day treats.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:25
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evilweasel posted:Lawfare is right. Diplomacy requires the ability to talk privately and losing that ability makes it more difficult to conduct diplomacy which is a bad thing. I think it makes it more difficult to conduct diplomacy against your citizens interests.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:25
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Do people not like Russian food? I'm sure many americans will get to try krokodil at some point in the near future.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:26
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Krispy Kareem posted:But the English were never this evil? And the French were never that good. Good food, good fashion, good supercars, they like playing on both sides of wars. They're like the She's All That version of America once the makeover is done.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:27
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Randbrick posted:The other major reason the Turnbull transcript in particular is scary is that the president is trying to welch on a treaty obligation. That's a third rail act. The US just does not function if we can't be trusted implicitly on treaty obligations and commitments because there is no meaningful enforcement mechanism. That's really the thing with Trump, isn't it. He's so stupid about this that he believes all of the BS that low-info voters believe. Much of how the US hegemony functions is based on certain understandings and he doesn't understand them. It's like when people are getting all mad about obligations to NATO and the UN as if they aren't essentially puppet organizations that we ignore at will and use to enforce our foreign policy. I think someone like Bannon probably understands this stuff but I'm pretty convinced that Trump does not.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:29
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DreamShipWrecked posted:The English were never this evil just by merit of the fact that in the time that they were doing the most evil people didn't care as much about those kinds of things. That kind of evil still doesn't compare to spotted dick and blood pudding. Also, German food is surprisingly tasty.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:30
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https://twitter.com/justinjm1/status/893191926635212800 This seems important.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:31
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Jaxyon posted:That's really the thing with Trump, isn't it. He's so stupid about this that he believes all of the BS that low-info voters believe. A nation that encourages the worst qualities of its populace will inevitably find those same qualities in its leaders.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:32
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canepazzo posted:https://twitter.com/justinjm1/status/893191926635212800 Mr. Mueller's Wild Ride is gonna be the best roller coaster when it opens
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Aug 3, 2017 20:32
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canepazzo posted:https://twitter.com/justinjm1/status/893191926635212800  Specifically, he already had a Flynn grand jury, but now he wants one for non-Flynn-related charges. 
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Aug 3, 2017 20:32
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canepazzo posted:https://twitter.com/justinjm1/status/893191926635212800 Doesn't this only happen when they think they have some sort of actual case that needs to be heard? Like Phase 2 type poo poo of a criminal investigation to see if there actually needs to be some kind of trial? Maybe Trump's announcement at his Reichsrallye is to announce that he's concluded everything is just fine and no collusion happened therefore he's dismissing Mueller cause he said so.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:33
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Ice cold tomato soup and dried beets are my cheat day treats. I mean, every country eats vegetables if you don't like vegetables
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Aug 3, 2017 20:33
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canepazzo posted:https://twitter.com/justinjm1/status/893191926635212800 Maybe, maybe not. The grand jury basically just says, "Is there any case there to potentially investigate?" It would be huge if the grand jury decided no. Otherwise, it just means that the investigation continues. The significance is that it means Mueller has "something" to present.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:34
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stillvisions posted:And they probably waited until he was leaving to watch and keep track of who he met while there too. moostaffa posted:lol, I met him at DEFCON 
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Aug 3, 2017 20:34
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canepazzo posted:https://twitter.com/justinjm1/status/893191926635212800 What does this mean exactly? It sounds like a big deal. EDIT: Answered above, thanks! So basically, there's something that needs investigating.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:34
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canepazzo posted:https://twitter.com/justinjm1/status/893191926635212800 So this means that they are gearing up for charges? Doesn't a grand jury mean that think they ave a case, and the grand jury gets to approve the legitimacy of that case? WHo is part of the grand jury?
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Aug 3, 2017 20:35
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I bet he waited till Trump went on vacation just to ruin it.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:35
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Mueller finally found Seth Rich's killer
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Aug 3, 2017 20:36
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canepazzo posted:I bet he waited till Trump went on vacation just to ruin it.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:36
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Leaking the names to damage the incoming administration was the alleged crime. That's true, but Trump is leaning on the fact that "unmasking" can sound insidious - and then reports that say "Rice did unmask them" sounds like confirmation. Either Trump is deliberately being deceitful or he is dumb enough that he thinks the act of unmasking is a crime.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:36
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Kale posted:Doesn't this only happen when they think they have some sort of actual case that needs to be heard? Like Phase 2 type poo poo of a criminal investigation to see if there actually needs to be some kind of trial? This is the phase when people who are being investigated start to sweat and make blind deals to sell out others before their poo poo is aired in front of a grand jury to get ahead of a case being built. We just need to wait to see which yellow gently caress squeals to save his own skin first. Once that weak trust is violated a lot more will start rolling over to protect their own rear end since once one talks the deals willing to be cut are less and less advantageous the more mouths open
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Aug 3, 2017 20:37
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So how many more days until Muller's car suddenly loses it's brakes?
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Aug 3, 2017 20:38
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A grand jury was always going to happen unless Mueller decided to end the investigation due to lack of cause. The impaneling of a grand jury is not indicative that there is a smoking gun and I wouldn't get too excited yet.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:39
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https://twitter.com/CNBC/status/893193421476814848 Where is your "markets are great! MAGA" now, Cheeto?
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Aug 3, 2017 20:40
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DreamShipWrecked posted:So how many more days until Muller's car suddenly loses it's brakes? You know how we'd joke and laugh about III Percent-ers guarding the white house lawn? I understand them now.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:40
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canepazzo posted:https://twitter.com/justinjm1/status/893191926635212800 Cool, we're gonna start getting some interesting info soon Its very illegal to try to smuggle info out of a grand jury, but we will still know who is getting called in front of it
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Aug 3, 2017 20:40
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Randbrick posted:The other major reason the Turnbull transcript in particular is scary is that the president is trying to welch on a treaty obligation. That's a third rail act. The US just does not function if we can't be trusted implicitly on treaty obligations and commitments because there is no meaningful enforcement mechanism. This is a fair point but Someone like Trump holding the office of the Presidency is sortof the equivalent of a conditional statement with a false antecedent. "If all dogs have five legs, then all cats are egyptian" is technically true, but useless, because all dogs do not have five legs. Similarly, because trump is president, the U.S. government is going to fail to function, but you can't infer from that that THIS particular disaster is why it won't function; regardless of this leak, trump could declare war on England tomorrow because Scotland didn't approve his golf course. Once [trump is president], then [disaster]; the precise form of the disaster may still be up in the air, like the form of the Destructor, but the disaster itself is inevitable.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:40
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in case anyone wants to know more about grand juries vs trial juries http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-law-basics/difference-between-grand-jury-and-trial-jury.html DONALD TRUMP SHOT SETH RICH
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