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Silver2195 posted:love to laugh at people being thrown in concentration camps. i am very anti-authoritarian and very normal. oh so we’re celebrating victory in the battle Stalingrad but not a thought for the survivors of the Nazi sixth army who are being sent to POW camps? nice praxis dude!!
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Dec 23, 2019 08:45
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BBJoey posted:oh so we’re celebrating victory in the battle Stalingrad but not a thought for the survivors of the Nazi sixth army who are being sent to POW camps? nice praxis dude!! so much for the tolerant left
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Dec 23, 2019 15:04
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uninterrupted posted:us-backed traitorous soldiers trying to overthrow a democratically elected government should be put into concentration camps, actually wait, what? It's not like the last presidential election was an example on democracy tbh.
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Dec 23, 2019 19:23
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El Chingon posted:wait, what? It's not like the last presidential election was an example on democracy tbh. Venezuela invited election observers from all over the world. All the election observers present said the elections were legitimate.
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Dec 23, 2019 19:31
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Tweet from venezuela's secretary of communication pointing out that the attack from the south was directed by guaido with a youtube link to a confession from one of the insurgents: https://twitter.com/jorgerpsuv/status/1209179312890564609?s=20
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Dec 23, 2019 19:39
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Well, it seems like the diplomatic relationship between the Bolivian coup government and Mexico keeps deteriorating rapidly due to Morales' functionaries taking refuge at the diplomatic residence. They expelled each other's ambassadors today. Somehow Spain got dragged into the clusterfuck as well, still not sure how exactly that went.
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Dec 31, 2019 00:59
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Freezer posted:Well, it seems like the diplomatic relationship between the Bolivian coup government and Mexico keeps deteriorating rapidly due to Morales' functionaries taking refuge at the diplomatic residence. They expelled each other's ambassadors today. Considering that the coup government isn’t legitimate, good, gently caress ‘em. Don’t recognize right wing coup governments imo.
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Dec 31, 2019 01:01
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Freezer posted:Well, it seems like the diplomatic relationship between the Bolivian coup government and Mexico keeps deteriorating rapidly due to Morales' functionaries taking refuge at the diplomatic residence. They expelled each other's ambassadors today. There has been a mob of "patriotic citizens" around the Mexican embassy for a while, and the police isn't doing anything about it. In fact, the Bolivian police has units all around it, too, including snipers on higher ground etc. This mob stops and frisks anyone coming and going to the embassy to make sure no one is hiding ex-Morales-ministers in their pockets, in violation of any diplomatic conventions ever. Mexico has brought a case in the ICC against this treatment. A Spanish embassy vehicle went into the Mexican embassy and returned a short time later, the mob stopped it, got extremely outraged because the Spanish security service was masked (just like the new "anti-terrorist special forces" all patriotic Bolivians (coup supporters) are so incredibly proud of), continued to search the vehicle and found a... fridge in the back. There wasn't any frozen Morales officials in the fridge though, so they had to let the Spanish diplomats go. Coup-friendly Bolivian media (the only mass media still allowed on air/printed pretty much) made this into a "brave Bolivian people disrespected by clandestine colonial Spanish operation" and the reciprocal ejection of diplomatic personnel happened. Meanwhile, activists are being prosecuted for radio shows that stopped airing in august in this new freedom loving democracy https://twitter.com/OVargas52/status/1212000169199362048
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Dec 31, 2019 17:50
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I for one am still eagerly awaiting the coming restoration of democracy!
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Dec 31, 2019 18:59
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brugroffil posted:I for one am still eagerly awaiting the coming restoration of democracy! Excuse me, the restoration of democracy has already happened, this is merely a... let's say... National Reorganisation Process... By the way, do you have any documents on you? Where do you work? Where do you live? Where are you going? Don't worry, if you're not hiding anything you've got nothing to fear.
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Dec 31, 2019 21:29
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lmao SEDITION, it's been less than two months since the coup and they're openly fashing out
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Dec 31, 2019 22:10
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do you think Wobbuffet stopped posting because the international community forgot about Bolivia so there's no need to defend the coup anymore, or because she got rounded up Leopards Eating People's Faces Party style
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Jan 1, 2020 04:30
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Cup Runneth Over posted:do you think Wobbuffet stopped posting because the international community forgot about Bolivia so there's no need to defend the coup anymore, or because she got rounded up Leopards Eating People's Faces Party style Wobbuffet et. al later found out to be posting exclusively from IPs tied to eglin air force base
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Jan 1, 2020 04:38
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Cup Runneth Over posted:do you think Wobbuffet stopped posting because the international community forgot about Bolivia so there's no need to defend the coup anymore, or because she got rounded up Leopards Eating People's Faces Party style Eat poo poo, she's actually in SA at the moment and this is a real possibility.
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Jan 1, 2020 08:12
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ANIME AKBAR posted:Eat poo poo, she's actually in SA at the moment and this is a real possibility. oh so now you're worried? ANIME AKBAR posted:I'm not convinced it's a "coup." My friend is telling me secondhand accounts of voter fraud (ballots signed by dead relatives, etc). No idea how pervasive it is. I see that Goons here are very critical of the OAS, but I can't tell why. ANIME AKBAR posted:Is that what really happened? The military "forced" him to resign? ANIME AKBAR posted:In a vacuum, yeah, that sounds like a military coup. But it sounds pretty disingenuous to describe the situation in such black and white terms. ANIME AKBAR posted:So if this is a military coup, and is lead by Nazis, then I guess your position is that the Bolivian military is lead by Nazis?
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Jan 1, 2020 08:18
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Yeah, I'm seriously worried. Because these are real people to me. Not props for the sake of grieving or gloating over my preferred ideological team. Your salivating at the prospect of someone being black bagged because they said some unflattering things about your preferred team brings your ethics into question, not mine.
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Jan 1, 2020 09:17
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ANIME AKBAR posted:Yeah, I'm seriously worried. Because these are real people to me. Not props for the sake of grieving or gloating over my preferred ideological team. lol there is no reason to believe Wobbuffet was even actually Bolivian, and if she was she was very clearly insulated from the effects of the coup by how she described her situation. She was neither indigenous nor a leftist, she has nothing to fear from the coup government, which is why she barely bothered to speak out against them (much like you) Spare me your crocodile tears over my perceived ethics, you have done nothing but concern troll in this thread and ignore inconvenient facts when posters confront you with them. You're not in South America and you have no more loved ones there than I do. The fact that you're only worried for the people of Bolivia now (and only the good affluent white ones of course) speaks volumes about your ethics tbqh
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Jan 1, 2020 09:37
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ANIME AKBAR posted:Yeah, I'm seriously worried. Because these are real people to me. Not props for the sake of grieving or gloating over my preferred ideological team. So it's okay for you to salivate at the prospect of Bolivian natives being black-bagged by an openly fascist ethnosupremacist coup government, because they aren't "real people" to you.
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Jan 1, 2020 12:20
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ANIME AKBAR posted:Yeah, I'm seriously worried. Because these are real people to me. Not props for the sake of grieving or gloating over my preferred ideological team. You literally cheerleaded nazis in this thread. Anyone who supported the military coup deserves whatever they get.
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Jan 1, 2020 14:18
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Cat Mattress posted:So it's okay for you to salivate at the prospect of Bolivian natives being black-bagged by an openly fascist ethnosupremacist coup government, because they aren't "real people" to you. uninterrupted posted:You literally cheerleaded nazis in this thread. Anyone who supported the military coup deserves whatever they get.
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Jan 1, 2020 17:55
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ANIME AKBAR posted:lmao go ahead and try backing this up, I'll wait. It's quoted right on the page bud.
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Jan 1, 2020 18:10
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Good news everyone! The Washington Post has recognized the democratic revolution in Bolivia as one of the 19 good things that happened in 2019! https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...tml?arc404=true  Also, the two activists whose warrent I posted above have been arrested, so they cannot continue their seditious activities anymore. Wobuffet probably can't post because she has to volunteer in the https://twitter.com/leh_vanessa/status/1212221806460846081
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Jan 1, 2020 18:14
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ANIME AKBAR posted:So if this is a military coup, and is lead by Nazis, then I guess your position is that the Bolivian military is lead by Nazis? you from a few weeks ago is laughing at your fear of the big mean Nazis, who are definitely not a problem. what kind of hyperventilating weirdo you must be, he says, to think that Nazis might hurt someone in Bolivia. be more sensible, friend. be more mature. be the kind of person you a few weeks ago was. and laugh at the hysterical leftie baby saying things like "people are in danger."
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Jan 1, 2020 18:17
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Mischievous Mink posted:It's quoted right on the page bud. Ok, so just to confirm, questioning people's pet theories based on a few tweets made within 12 hours of the resignation is equivalent to "cheerleading nazis" and "salivating at the prospect of Bolivian natives being black-bagged." I'm reminded of the few weeks after 9/11 in the US, when any olive-skinned man wearing a funny fan was could expect to get slurs hurled at them by random white people. If you tried to explain to them what the difference between a taqiyah and a turban was, then that just made a terrorist-lover in their eyes. They didn't care about the distinction between fact and fiction, just about feeding their rage and reinforcing their "us vs them" mentality.
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Jan 1, 2020 18:25
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ANIME AKBAR posted:Ok, so just to confirm, questioning people's pet theories based on a few tweets made within 12 hours of the resignation is equivalent to "cheerleading nazis" and "salivating at the prospect of Bolivian natives being black-bagged." Yes. The current government in Bolivia is, unquestionably, an unelected military dictatorship. The fact that you qualify your post with “within 12 hours of the resignation” just means you were/are too stupid to hear what multiple people who have seen other military dictatorships were yelling at you.
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Jan 1, 2020 18:29
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ANIME AKBAR posted:Ok, so just to confirm, questioning people's pet theories based on a few tweets made within 12 hours of the resignation is equivalent to "cheerleading nazis" and "salivating at the prospect of Bolivian natives being black-bagged." The reason it's bad is that there are many cases where something is obviously either a coup or an attempted coup but there isn't the extremely obvious evidence of this being the case that we had with Bolivia (like, say, the situation with Guaido in Venezuela). Basically, your attitude is one that will result in supporting pretty much any US-supported coup until it's too late and the coup has already succeeded and started doing bad things (because you assume by default that it's not bad if US media says it's not bad until the evidence that it is is completely undeniable). This is why the only reasonable position is to make your default opinion opposition of any coup (or "regime change" or whatever) that has US support.
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Jan 1, 2020 18:41
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uninterrupted posted:Yes. "Within 12h of the resignation" becomes even more of a joke as the people acting as the face of the coup have been proud self proclaimed religious fascists for more than 12 years before the resignation and the whole spiel for people like wobuffet or "ANIME AKBARS friend" was to act like they were not aware who they were cheering on there. Because if faced with the choice between uppity socialist native people and becoming allies with religious fascists, the religious fascists always win out with good (neo)liberal "centrists" (see also: Mesa, Carlos). In a piece of good news however, even the coup-purged supreme electoral court refused to ban MAS from the next elections: https://twitter.com/nimaerd/status/1212425494542589952
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Jan 1, 2020 18:41
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uninterrupted posted:The current government in Bolivia is, unquestionably, an unelected military dictatorship. quote:The fact that you qualify your post with “within 12 hours of the resignation” just means you were/are too stupid to hear what multiple people who have seen other military dictatorships were yelling at you. Just to review, there were several theories flying around here, including a) a straight up, textbook military coup, b) a paramilitary coup by various right wing groups. After a couple photos came out on twitter, this changed to straight up "Nazis," and c) a US/CIA/SoA backed coup. Also d) there were other groups like the Police and the COB who were also defecting against the MAS, which suggested their were some grassroots elements to it. I found all of these things to be independently plausible (especially based on past SA coups), but felt that the real story was dominated by one or two of these, but couldn't tell which. But nobody in the thread seemed to give a poo poo, and were just firing posts into the fog of war. I guess I should have known better than to ruin everyone's fun by trying to clear that fog.
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Jan 1, 2020 18:57
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Spice World War II posted:In a piece of good news however, even the coup-purged supreme electoral court refused to ban MAS from the next elections: That is good news, but now I'm afraid voter suppression and bans is going to involve more physical intimidation and violence than it would've otherwise. Of everything to happen in 2019, this was by far one of the worst events.
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Jan 1, 2020 18:58
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ANIME AKBAR posted:I guess I should have known better than to ruin everyone's fun by trying to clear that fog. There was no ‘fog’ beyond the one you and wobuffet were trying to create by supporting the coup.
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Jan 1, 2020 19:09
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Ytlaya posted:The reason it's bad is that there are many cases where something is obviously either a coup or an attempted coup but there isn't the extremely obvious evidence of this being the case that we had with Bolivia (like, say, the situation with Guaido in Venezuela). What's not reasonable is lashing out against anyone who points out the inconsistencies in that initial assumption as being a literal nazi supporter. quote:Basically, your attitude is one that will result in supporting pretty much any US-supported coup until it's too late and the coup has already succeeded and started doing bad things quote:(because you assume by default that it's not bad if US media says it's not bad until the evidence that it is is completely undeniable). quote:This is why the only reasonable position is to make your default opinion opposition of any coup (or "regime change" or whatever) that has US support. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFPFX15S-mA
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Jan 1, 2020 19:09
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ANIME AKBAR posted:Of course a military coup was the most reasonable assumption at the time, given what little info was available. what, are you suggesting there are nazis? 
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Jan 1, 2020 19:10
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Spice World War II posted:"Within 12h of the resignation" becomes even more of a joke as the people acting as the face of the coup have been proud self proclaimed religious fascists for more than 12 years before the resignation and the whole spiel for people like wobuffet or "ANIME AKBARS friend" was to act like they were not aware who they were cheering on there. uninterrupted posted:There was no ‘fog’ beyond the one you and wobuffet were trying to create by supporting the coup. The kneejerk assumption that any questions in the echo chamber must be from bad-faith actors is killing this entire forum, and it's painful to watch it happen.
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Jan 1, 2020 19:13
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ANIME AKBAR posted:Yeah that's not really up for debate anymore (though maybe paramilitary is more accurate). There was no fog of war, all the actors in the run-up to the coup were known quantities. Like in every democracy, of course there was some legitimate opposition against Evo Morales, but the protest chose to rally behind unabashed religious fascists, and they had American NGO help to green wash that movement as a "democratic/environmental protest" by making sure all the footage was wide shots and no one bothered to translate any of the rousing speeches. None of the people involved in the "protests" before the coup nor any of the people now in power are political newcomers in any sense, it was perfectly simple to know who was going to take power not only within 12h after the resignation, but for weeks before the resignation. Hell, the Camacho faction has been loving trying to actually secede from Bolivia over Morales being in power more than a decade before! Their organizations have been around for ages. If you found all things to be equally independently plausible, congratulations, your ignorance on Bolivian politics allowed you to be perfectly played by this campaign. This doesn't mean that other people didn't actually know more about the issue and were not just firing posts into the fog of war.
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Jan 1, 2020 19:16
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ANIME AKBAR posted:The kneejerk assumption that any questions in the echo chamber must be from bad-faith actors is killing this entire forum, and it's painful to watch it happen. actually, it's people showing insufficient respect to -MY- posts that is destroying us now, tell us the story about how there are no nazis in Bolivia, and anyone saying that there are is silly.
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Jan 1, 2020 19:18
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ANIME AKBAR posted:The kneejerk assumption that any questions in the echo chamber must be from bad-faith actors is killing this entire forum, and it's painful to watch it happen. Hey, if those were legitimate questions I hereby declare that I apologize for thinking you a bad faith actor (though I don't even remember thinking that, I am however pretty sure of wobuffet because she just sounds way too much like the bad faith actors part of my own Bolivian family). Would you care to apologize for claiming that other people however were just posting into the fog of war and might actually have known what they were talking about?
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Jan 1, 2020 19:18
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ANIME AKBAR posted:The kneejerk assumption that any questions in the echo chamber must be from bad-faith actors is killing this entire forum, and it's painful to watch it happen. Yeah darn that echo chamber that’s constantly correct about how Latin American military coups are bad. Or how vaccines prevent disease, or gravity and other indisputable facts only nazi apologists question.
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Jan 1, 2020 19:20
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Oh, before I forget, the two heroes of the democratic revolution, Camacho and Pumari, have made up after their lovers spat, and will run on one ticket as candidates for president/vice president after all. https://twitter.com/HoyBol/status/1212069074592845824 So we will get the dream team ticket of literal religious fascist who-ran-the-sieg-heiling-youth-division of the Santa Cruz extremists as the start of his political career with the more centrist appealing civic committee leader from Potosi, allowing everyone to vote for them! Then afterwards we can all wring our hands and discuss however one could have known that the leopards that promise to eat indigenous faces ticket is actually eating indigenous faces
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Jan 1, 2020 19:25
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Spice World War II posted:Hey, if those were legitimate questions I hereby declare that I apologize for thinking you a bad faith actor (though I don't even remember thinking that, quote:I am however pretty sure of wobuffet because she just sounds way too much like the bad faith actors part of my own Bolivian family). quote:Would you care to apologize for claiming that other people however were just posting into the fog of war and might actually have known what they were talking about?
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Jan 1, 2020 19:31
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ANIME AKBAR posted:Well you are wrong, but I have no way to prove it to you without doxxing her, and I doubt she'll come back after being labelled as a nazi. So I'll have to leave it at that. hey could you ask her what her take is on the coup forces proclaiming it illegal to be an elected member of Morales' party i could use a laugh
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Jan 1, 2020 19:38
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