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Karl Barks posted:i think it's a group of members of color, not a working group I'm hoping to hell that it's a working group because I try to think the best of my comrades. If it's just an unofficial group of members of color it's absolutely inexcusable to present this with a title indicating it's a statement from the PoC hivemind, especially with the DSA being so weak on race issues as is. Love seeing white members gleefully using this to say "see the PoC agree with me!".
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Aug 31, 2017 00:10
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it is uncomradely to insinuate horrible things about fellow dsa members because they disagree with you, that's right.
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Aug 31, 2017 00:11
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R. Mute posted:it is uncomradely to insinuate horrible things about fellow dsa members because they disagree with you, that's right. lot of that going around
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Aug 31, 2017 00:12
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Karl Barks posted:lot of that going around 
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Aug 31, 2017 00:12
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apokaladle posted:I'm hoping to hell that it's a working group because I try to think the best of my comrades. If it's just an unofficial group of members of color it's absolutely inexcusable to present this with a title indicating it's a statement from the PoC hivemind, especially with the DSA being so weak on race issues as is. Love seeing white members gleefully using this to say "see the PoC agree with me!". i don't think that was their intention with the title
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Aug 31, 2017 00:13
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That very article you are having a meltdown over goes to great lengths to suggest minorities are not a hivemind, and in fact uses that idea as the basis of its argument. Your counter argument seems to be accusing them if being fake, on account of not agreeing with you, which ironically has that exact assumption of hivemind as its basis.
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Aug 31, 2017 00:14
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edit: nevermind!!!
Karl Barks has issued a correction as of 00:18 on Aug 31, 2017 |
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Aug 31, 2017 00:15
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why are so many people writing 30 paragraph essays about danny fentonty, I haven't read any of them. use your english to make less of it
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Aug 31, 2017 00:15
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apropos to nothing posted:I really don't understand all the hate for democratic centralism. I see it all the time in this thread and when I meet DSA people irl they treat it like some weird boogie man. Democratic centralism is literally just democracy. We all vote on something, make a decision based on that vote, and then do the thing we voted on. if you disagree with the decision, you still have to abide by it but can continue to voice your displeasure and attempt to reverse the decision at another vote. The reason its a big deal that people abide by the decision even if they disagree is because if you're actively engaging in disruptive activity like civil disobedience, you need to have a group that you know won't have someone go against the decision of the group by punching a cop or throwing a brick through a window and potentially risk getting all of you arrested. It also means you can have faith that your comrades in other areas are operating in about the same fashion so there's no worry that an individual or a whole branch in somewhere like, oh who knows let's just say Austin Texas, is making your org look bad by doing stuff that the rest of the org would never do and finds reprehensible. like it's fine if you dont like the idea of democratic centralism, nobody is forcing you to use it or like it, but its not This One Weird Trick to Summon the Ghost of Stalin. the responses to this were about what i'd expect lol
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Aug 31, 2017 00:16
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apokaladle posted:What the hot wet gently caress is this. it's the same tactic the Danny faction used with "DSA Labour" or whatever trying to pretend to be the DSA labor group, El chuco DSA has been in the bag for Danny from the start of this lol
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Aug 31, 2017 00:18
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rudatron posted:That very article you are having a meltdown over goes to great lengths to suggest minorities are not a hivemind, and in fact uses that idea as the basis of its argument. Oh no, I'm sure that they have this as their sincere opinion. But when you put out a statement from "members of color" and have paragraphs about sellouts, then any empty statements about respecting different opinions have very little weight. Incidentally, if you'd bothered to read my complaints instead of writing them off as a meltdown, you'd see that my personal agreement or lack thereof is not the issue here. I agree with several parts of the statement, and I've mostly kept myself out of this whole clusterfuck. But even if I entirely agreed with everything in here, I would not sign on based on the issues I've brought up.
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Aug 31, 2017 00:20
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Ace of Baes posted:it's the same tactic the Danny faction used with "DSA Labour" or whatever trying to pretend to be the DSA labor group, El chuco DSA has been in the bag for Danny from the start of this lol glad to see you've moved from "if you don't agree with me you don't care about PoC's in DSA" to "if you don't agree with me you're a Danny collaborator"
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Aug 31, 2017 00:20
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if people think that this danny poo poo is bad id hate for them to have to sit in on a single faculty meeting at any university ever
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Aug 31, 2017 00:21
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there's either a massive, nation-wide conspiracy to keep danny on the NPC or some people think that we should respect the rules we all agreed to
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Aug 31, 2017 00:25
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Business Gorillas posted:there's either a massive, nation-wide conspiracy to keep danny on the NPC or some people think that we should respect the rules we all agreed to Chairman Danny's 5 Year Plan
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Aug 31, 2017 00:26
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bump_fn posted:if people think that this danny poo poo is bad id hate for them to have to sit in on a single faculty meeting at any university ever
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Aug 31, 2017 00:26
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bump_fn posted:if people think that this danny poo poo is bad id hate for them to have to sit in on a single faculty meeting at any university ever i agree, liberals are bad.
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Aug 31, 2017 00:26
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I feel you brother. It's like when people tell me I don't feel the true impact of anti-Latino stuff because technically my skin is white. Don't tell me how to feel you rear end in a top hat.
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Aug 31, 2017 00:29
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gently caress. marry. t-rex posted:i agree, liberals are bad.
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Aug 31, 2017 00:30
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Ace of Baes posted:it's the same tactic the Danny faction used with "DSA Labour" or whatever trying to pretend to be the DSA labor group, El chuco DSA has been in the bag for Danny from the start of this lol To be clear gently caress you too for acting like PoC are sinister agents being puppeted by an old white dude, that is not what my anger is about
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Aug 31, 2017 00:30
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University faculty at least has the good sense to not air grievances in public, which is part of the problem here. The passive aggressive jab by dsa praxis of 'we tried' is one example here - that's totally inappropriate behavior. Imagine if that happened for every meeting of any other org? If everyone single decision by National is going to be contested on twitter, if every losing subgroup of every decision is going to threaten to split or dues strike because they don't get their way, the dsa is dead. Full stop. It destroys the ability of the org to function, when any issue that enough Extremely Online people care about, becomes a black mark against the org, and removes solidarity as a binding principle. National has made a decision, the issue doesn't really matter in the scheme of things, reversing it has a cost. Move on.
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Aug 31, 2017 00:32
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Yeah, this is their public face.
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Aug 31, 2017 00:34
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apokaladle posted:To be clear gently caress you too for acting like PoC are sinister agents being puppeted by an old white dude, that is not what my anger is about I don't think they're sinister agents I think Danny's faction is intentionally releasing ambiguous statements meant to sound like official working group or caucus proclamations because he already did literally exactly that with the "DSA Labor Statement"
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Aug 31, 2017 00:35
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poo poo's hosed. Signed, DSA Goon Squad
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Aug 31, 2017 00:43
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I am glad that we have no mechanism to remove someone from the NPC who can be expected to hurt the organization's image and undermine coalitions. That is good and functional.
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Aug 31, 2017 00:47
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Ace of Baes posted:I don't think they're sinister agents I think Danny's faction is intentionally releasing ambiguous statements meant to sound like official working group or caucus proclamations because he already did literally exactly that with the "DSA Labor Statement" sorry that you are mad that some people of color are disagreeing with you
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Aug 31, 2017 00:49
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Ace of Baes posted:tweet you are too online and should consider logging off.
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Aug 31, 2017 00:50
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Ace of Baes posted:I don't think they're sinister agents I think Danny's faction is intentionally releasing ambiguous statements meant to sound like official working group or caucus proclamations because he already did literally exactly that with the "DSA Labor Statement" you could say that these ambiguously named working groups are "false flags"
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Aug 31, 2017 00:53
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Slanderer posted:sorry that you are mad that some people of color are disagreeing with you They're purporting to represent more people than they do, is what he's saying.
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Aug 31, 2017 00:54
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Accretionist posted:They're purporting to represent more people than they do, is what he's saying. yeah this, also they formed specifically for this, there's an afro socialist working group, which was voted in during the convention and is badass, and they haven't released a statement, both of the cofounders released personal statements telling Danny to resign, this is lovely regardless if it was pro or anti Danny, it's just not surprising it's pro Danny bc it's tactics his supporters have already used
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Aug 31, 2017 00:58
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Accretionist posted:They're purporting to represent more people than they do, is what he's saying. also that's not what ace of baes is saying, that's what apokaladle is saying.
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Aug 31, 2017 00:59
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Slanderer posted:you are too online and should consider logging off. I will never log off
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Aug 31, 2017 01:01
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R. Mute posted:unlike every other caucus that has a name? no that's exactly what ace of baes is saying. y'all've been arguing in amazingly bad faith and it's loving hilarious when y'all accuse people of doing exactly what you're doing while you're doing it
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Aug 31, 2017 01:04
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big black turnout posted:no that's exactly what ace of baes is saying. y'all've been arguing in amazingly bad faith and it's loving hilarious when y'all accuse people of doing exactly what you're doing while you're doing it Ace of Baes posted:I think Danny's faction is intentionally releasing ambiguous statements meant to sound like official working group or caucus proclamations because he already did literally exactly that with the "DSA Labor Statement" Ace of Baes posted:yeah this, also they formed specifically for this,
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Aug 31, 2017 01:05
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the San Francisco call for Danny to resign was signed by like 30 people (me being one of them) but phrasing it as "Steering Group and Justice Committee" of a 400+ member org it sounds much larger, it's a tactic that all sides are using. i'd bet the overwhelming position held, if put up to a vote, would be "i don't give a poo poo" also there's a Socialists of Color caucus that should have been used for that "Members of Color" paper if they wanted to expand it beyond afro specific members, I don't like that you can sign on to that merely by filling out a google form and that it's not attached to any official working group. the only name i recognize on that is a very pleasant older lady from east bay but her age automatically makes her a police collaborator
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Aug 31, 2017 01:06
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Vhak lord of hate posted:the San Francisco call for Danny to resign was signed by like 30 people (me being one of them) but phrasing it as "Steering Group and Justice Committee" of a 400+ member org it sounds much larger, it's a tactic that all sides are using. i'd bet the overwhelming position held, if put up to a vote, would be "i don't give a poo poo" If this had come as a statement from the socialists of color caucus then I wouldn't have posted about it. There's a difference between chapter or working group statements coming from the most engaged core and Literally loving Who making a statement as DSA Members of Color.
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Aug 31, 2017 01:10
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seems like this organisation could use some more structure
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Aug 31, 2017 01:11
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this has been the easiest cointelpro of all time lol
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Aug 31, 2017 01:11
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i cant believe danny was a member of the IDF
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Aug 31, 2017 01:12
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