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CelticPredator posted:This is the first Alien film to present a chestburst as a beautiful, if not absolutely adorable moment. Not an Alien film technically, but Space Balls.
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May 20, 2017 20:03
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Shaocaholica posted:Just like how human babies aren't born with those tendencies. They are learned over time and external stimulus. 
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May 20, 2017 20:03
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Don't kid yourself Jimmy, if a human baby ever got the chance, he'd kill you, and everyone you cared about.
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May 20, 2017 20:05
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Talking about knitting.
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May 20, 2017 20:05
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emanresu tnuocca posted:I guess this was pointed out but there was a bit of a role reversal with the faith vs reason debate that was also at the core of Prometheus, in Promotheus Elizabeth is "a woman of faith" (until a certain point, at least) and she was scorned by captain Vickers for acting irrationally, in this one Daniels is the cold rationalist who protests being led to a mission based on the captain faith. The fact that the Captain was hamfistedly described as a Man of Faith made it seem like a huge false start for his character when he strictly forbade a funeral.
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May 20, 2017 20:08
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HannibalBarca posted:The fact that the Captain was hamfistedly described as a Man of Faith made it seem like a huge false start for his character when he strictly forbade a funeral. My reading of it was prettymuch: "Everyone constantly disrespects me because of my faith!" "No one cares about your faith, in fact it's the only thing you have going for you, since you're dumber than a bag of rocks."
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May 20, 2017 20:10
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HannibalBarca posted:The fact that the Captain was hamfistedly described as a Man of Faith made it seem like a huge false start for his character when he strictly forbade a funeral. Yeah I think his character was very intentionally played as a hypocrite, he is portrayed as a man full of doubt who takes idiotic decisions and that's why people disrespect him. Even posthumously we learn that dead James Franco was simply a better captain and a better man and that whatshisname was simply never up to the task. It didn't seem like anyone gave a poo poo about his religious beliefs other than him.
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May 20, 2017 20:11
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dont even fink about it posted:My reading of it was prettymuch: It just seemed like a weird and backwards bit of characterization. I'm not sure if we were supposed to like or dislike the captain throughout the movie because his character got off on such a weird start. First you tell your second-in-command that there's no time to give her husband a space funeral because there's more important things to do, and then literally in the next scene he's complaining to some rando about how he didn't get the job because he's too religious. It just felt...off, to me.
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May 20, 2017 20:12
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He said "as a Man of Faith" as sanctimoniously as someone would say "as a Person of Color".HannibalBarca posted:First you tell your second-in-command that there's no time to give her husband a space funeral because there's more important things to do His point was that he needed to do something to show that he was captain, and since they outright disobeyed him, that meant they didn't respect him. This is why he wasn't made captain, but he chooses to ascribe it to his being Mormon or whatever.
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May 20, 2017 20:13
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Yeah, it's like he basically made two major (?) decisions as a captain, neither of which you would necessarily expect from a Man of Faith. "No funeral" is Man of Hardass and "Explore Random Planet on a Hunch" is Man of Dumb. Not really sure what the faith angle was about, it seemed a bit half-baked. I suppose he put a good deal of faith in David. For some reason. I guess what I'm saying is that I never knew how seriously to take the Faith aspect of his character. It seemed superfluous. HannibalBarca fucked around with this message at 20:17 on May 20, 2017 |
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May 20, 2017 20:15
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HannibalBarca posted:Not really sure what the faith angle was about, it seemed a bit half-baked. There are several characters "of faith" in the film, but he's the only one that proclaims it loudly. Why is that? "He's even more insufferable when he's happy!"
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May 20, 2017 20:17
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Because I let myself think this was going to be a retread of Alien that tried its best to sidestep Prometheus. Not only does it not do that, it fully indulges every nutty philosophical argument put forth in Prometheus to the point that I forgot at some point there was going to be Xenomorphs in it. True. A Covenant is better off for it 
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May 20, 2017 20:18
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He was desperate to believe that the planet was a divine sign so he could validate his own failing faith, afterwards he still looks for a proof of this so he could save face after the catastrophic failure of the mission, this is also why he followed David, just for the slim hope that he would be right after all. Really, a man of doubts.
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May 20, 2017 20:19
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dont even fink about it posted:"No one cares about your faith, in fact it's the only thing you have going for you, since you're dumber than a bag of rocks." it will be revealed in the next movie that he's the great-uncle of "eighty-five" from alien3
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May 20, 2017 20:20
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emanresu tnuocca posted:He was desperate to believe that the planet was a divine sign so he could validate his own failing faith, afterwards he still looks for a proof of this so he could save face after the catastrophic failure of the mission, this is also why he followed David, just for the slim hope that he would be right after all. Around the rocket in four directions spread the little town, green and motionless in the Martian spring, There were white houses and red brick ones, and tall elm trees blowing in the wind, and tall maples and horse chestnuts. And church steeples with golden bells silent in them. The men in the rocket looked out and saw this. Then they looked at one another and then they looked out again. They held on to each other’s elbows, suddenly unable to breathe, it seemed. Their faces grew pale and they blinked constantly, running from glass port to glass port of the ship. “I’ll be damned,” whispered Lustig, rubbing his face with his numb fingers, his eyes wet. “Ill be thinned, damned, damned." “It can't be, it just can’t be,” said Samuel Hinkston. “Lord,” said Captain John Black. There was a call from the chemist. “Sir, the atmosphere is fine for breathing, sir.” - Black turned slowly. “Are you sure?’ “No doubt of it, sir.” “Then we’ll go. out,” said Lustig. “Lord, yes,” said Samuel Hinkston. “Hold on,” said Captain John Black. “Just a moment, Nobody gave any orders.” “But, sir--” “Sir, nothing. How do we know what this is?” “We know what it is, sir,” said the chemist. “It’s a small town withgood air in it, sir.” Mars Is Heaven!, Ray Bradbury (1948)
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May 20, 2017 20:23
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Saw it last night, loved it. Jumped out of my seat maybe three times, which is ridiculous but there you go. Great scares, great moments that shouldn't HAVE to make sense, shouldn't HAVE to connect all movies together unless you need it to. I mean, sure, they ALL do that. The grumps about CGI? I can't remember any point that I thought, "wow this is crap." If I'd been looking for bad CGI, I'm sure I'd have seen it, but I was there for the movie, the story, all that. All the predictable parts were perfectly predictable - meaning, OF COURSE that's not the end of the movie. OF COURSE that person is going to die in a few minutes because they made a mistake. The only thing I didn't like, as I was watching the movie, was that they just didn't build up enough emotional connection; in the end when it all went to poo poo, and everybody KNOWS it'll go to poo poo, I wasn't really rooting for either side. I still enjoyed it, but I wasn't captivated the way I was for Ripley in 1 or 2, or Shaw in Prometheus. Overall, I loved it as much as I loved Prometheus. It really connects the Prometheus story to the Alien stories. This is not an origin tale for the Xenos, it's pretty obvious they've always been around just like we have. They didn't suddenly appear in Prometheus, we just never did much space travel until then. At least, that's a nice easy way to think about it. edit: Both of the early cuts did not have Daniels figuring out Walter's identity before succumbing to cryosleep. That actually played better in the final cut. That would have been A MILLION TIMES better. magnificent7 fucked around with this message at 20:42 on May 20, 2017 |
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May 20, 2017 20:25
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I really did like Crudup in this. "Awwwww, ye have little faith!  "
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May 20, 2017 20:27
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CelticPredator posted:This is the first Alien film to present a chestburst as a beautiful, if not absolutely adorable moment. The discordance with the visuals of that scene and the music was amazing. At first I didn't like the Xeno homunculus but the more I think about it, it really works for the scene they're trying to portray. Nroo fucked around with this message at 20:29 on May 20, 2017 |
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May 20, 2017 20:27
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Also, there is not proof that the Alien has ever existed before now. The mural looks like the Decon more than a Xenomorph, and I'm pretty sure Scott's going to show exactly how the space jockey got to LV-426. And it will be within the time frame established.
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May 20, 2017 20:28
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:There are several characters "of faith" in the film, but he's the only one that proclaims it loudly. Why is that? I liked him as a character because the world is overflowing with that kind of rear end in a top hat. People disrespect him simply because he's a general shithead all the time, but he interprets it as being persecuted for his faith because of course that breed of martyr complex insincere rear end in a top hat would do that. It shows him as a huge dud of a human being and then he dies horribly. It's a good part of the movie. sean10mm fucked around with this message at 20:35 on May 20, 2017 |
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May 20, 2017 20:32
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I liked this well enough, but it lacked the insane grandeur of Prometheus, and it had neither the fun ensemble of Alien nor a protagonist who really connected like Ripley or even Shaw. Other than David, who took touching everything dangerous to its logical conclusion.
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May 20, 2017 20:46
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CelticPredator posted:Also, there is not proof that the Alien has ever existed before now. The mural looks like the Decon more than a Xenomorph, and I'm pretty sure Scott's going to show exactly how the space jockey got to LV-426. And it will be within the time frame established. If that's the case, prove that there's no other capital-A Aliens anywhere else in the galaxy. I mean, sure, maybe Scott will show the eggs showing up on LV426, but it'd be one hell of an interesting curveball if he didn't, and as Covenant stands it's more than ambiguous enough to interpret it that David isn't the sole creator of the Xenomorph (and I think it's more thematically interesting on multiple fronts if he didn't do it, even if he thinks he did). Shaocaholica posted:Ya'll missed some discussion on this a few pages back. There's a theory floating around that David switched bodies, not just clothes which would suggest that Walters biometrics and 'data' are with David. Someone here mentioned that the wound Daniels inflicts on Davids lower jaw is not present when they get back to the Covenant suggesting even more so that they switched bodies. He definitely didn't switch bodies - we see Walter rapidly healing from the wound in his neck after David initially disabled him, but David lacks the ability to heal that quickly, which is why he needs to staple his own face shut. It's one of the more subtle hints that "Walter" at the end isn't what he seems. Granted this brings up the question of "where is the wound under his jaw", but nobody's perfect I guess! 
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May 20, 2017 20:47
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All these long paragraphs about religion and poo poo... but is the movie any good question mark
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May 20, 2017 20:55
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CelticPredator posted:This is the first Alien film to present a chestburst as a beautiful, if not absolutely adorable moment. I can't be the only one that heard Hammond's voice during that scene. "I've been present for the birth of every little xeno on this planet." Xenomrph posted:I mean, sure, maybe Scott will show the eggs showing up on LV426, but it'd be one hell of an interesting curveball if he didn't, and as Covenant stands it's more than ambiguous enough to interpret it that David isn't the sole creator of the Xenomorph (and I think it's more thematically interesting on multiple fronts if he didn't do it, even if he thinks he did). It'd be hilarious if Scott set it up in the next film that the xenos will inevitably 'evolve' to their Alien form given enough time, and that David is only deluded in thinking he controlled/influenced it. One thing I thought was odd was when Daniels asks "What did you do to Shaw?" and David responds with "The same thing I'm going to do to you!" After throwing her around a bit, he climbs on top of her and kisses her, asking "Is that how its done?" So is the implied rape something he did to Shaw, or is this the first time he's considered it, spurred by jealousy of Walter?
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May 20, 2017 20:57
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I hope David is the Space Jockey and all the fans get mad. Who cares who created the Xenomorphs. Why does it even matter? HR Giger created them. They look amazing. That's all that's important.
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May 20, 2017 21:00
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Woof Blitzer posted:All these long paragraphs about religion and poo poo... but is the movie any good question mark Exclamation point not question mark.
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May 20, 2017 21:03
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Also I love how David treats all his creations. He treats them with love and kindness, almost as a spiteful way to one up Weyland and the Engineers. He is the Nature Boy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_YtyyfUF8g And one of his last lines really nails that home. "If we're kind, we will live in a kind world". (or something like that.)
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May 20, 2017 21:05
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I'm watching the Alien 3 Assembly cut again right now It's awesome!
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May 20, 2017 21:06
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Exclamation point not question mark. I bow... to no man
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May 20, 2017 21:07
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David is such an interesting character and it bums me out that he's placed into such a standard horror/thriller movie. David literally making the Aliens from Alien come off like midichlorians to me. It's explaining something that doesn't need to be explained and just makes the universe feel smaller and just too... convenient? The idea of an android with obsessed with creation is really cool, but then when he king fu fights his clone and then recreates the ending of Alien but with more Special Effects it takes away from the cool philosophy. Also, there's a lot of good characterization of Tennessee and that's about it. Katherine Waterston is so lame and wasted in this movie until the end when she needs to be the same exact character as Ripley all of a sudden. The visuals were outstanding, I liked the music and some of the performances, but most of the movie was a mediocre horror movie with the same stupid characters you'd expect.
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May 20, 2017 21:09
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CelticPredator posted:I hope David is the Space Jockey and all the fans get mad. Because if David creates them, it reduces their presence in the universe down to like 2 planets. Instead of being an unimaginably old, unknowable Lovecraftian cosmic horror that could be lurking in the dark anywhere in the void of space, there's now a finite number of them and anyone could conceivably throw them together given the proper resources and time. "Person creates monster, monster gets out of control" is one of the most common and played out tropes in horror, having the Alien's origins be a mystery (or even unknowable) is vastly more interesting. Xenomrph fucked around with this message at 21:15 on May 20, 2017 |
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May 20, 2017 21:12
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Xenomrph posted:Because if David creates them, it reduces their presence in the universe down to like 2 planets. Instead of being an unimaginably old, unknowable Lovecraftian cosmic horror that could be lurking in the dark anywhere in the void of space, there's now a finite number of them and anyone could conceivably throw them together given the proper resources and time. There was already a finite amount of them anyway, though? The only ones that exist are on LV-426, on that ship. That's why Ripley kills herself because she has the last Xenomorph.
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May 20, 2017 21:14
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CelticPredator posted:I hope David is the Space Jockey and all the fans get mad. The cold open shows that David is the space jockey.
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May 20, 2017 21:15
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Xenomrph posted:Because if David creates them, it reduces their presence in the universe down to like 2 planets. Instead of being an unimaginably old, unknowable Lovecraftian cosmic horror that could be lurking in the dark anywhere in the void of space, there's now a finite number of them and anyone could conceivably throw them together given the proper resources and time. On the other hand it's maybe full of Deacons and bizarre tentacle rape whorehouse monsters and proto xeno things and God knows what other Engineer biomechanics deathspawns millenia old.
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May 20, 2017 21:18
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smallmouth posted:This movie was good and fun. I can't wait to see it again. I thought David's research and input into their evolution was a great bridge for the Xenomorph from Prometheus to Alien. you know it's impossible for what he did to bridge to alien. the ship in alien is thousands or millions of years old. actually maybe he uses some form of time travel he comes up with to put them on a very old ship and it crashes?? genius ridley...genius. the david plot would've worked a lot better in its own new ip.
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May 20, 2017 21:19
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Xenomrph posted:Because if David creates them, it reduces their presence in the universe down to like 2 planets. Instead of being an unimaginably old, unknowable Lovecraftian cosmic horror that could be lurking in the dark anywhere in the void of space, there's now a finite number of them and anyone could conceivably throw them together given the proper resources and time. Yeah, similarly to Interstellar it reduces the initial overwhelming wonder or horror of the setting's universe to just a thing humans indirectly did which is way less interesting.
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May 20, 2017 21:19
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CelticPredator posted:I hope David is the Space Jockey and all the fans get mad. And yet, you're the one defending the film which insists on giving the answers that no-one asked for. If it doesn't matter, the film shouldn't have bothered with it. If it does matter, then people are completely understandable in their complaints, since a psychotic robot made them is an incredibly boring and mundane answer, even (maybe especially) compared to "It's a big galaxy, and there's always going to be something out to kill you in ways you can't understand." It's very interesting to me that the most common defense people seem to have for "this makes no sense and is dumb" is "LOL, why do you care, NERD". As if their lack of standards was a sign of intellectual enlightenment.
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May 20, 2017 21:20
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CelticPredator posted:There was already a finite amount of them anyway, though? The only ones that exist are on LV-426, on that ship. That's why Ripley kills herself because she has the last Xenomorph. We don't know that, and that's the point. The implication in Alien is that the Derelict was transporting a cargo and crashed, but there's nothing to say 100% of the eggs in the galaxy were on that ship, and that's scary. Ripley kills herself because denying the company from getting any Alien is the right thing to do, and it's one of the few avenues she has left to regain agency in her life. She'd be justified in destroying herself even if there was literally another Alien in the next room over.
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May 20, 2017 21:25
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The most evil being in the universe is a thing we humans created. That's creepier to me than Xenomorphs being spread all over the place.
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May 20, 2017 21:27
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the unknown is always creepier than the known.
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May 20, 2017 21:27
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