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watho posted:Well, it's good that nobody is saying that then! but somebody somewhere has probably said it so we HAVE to bring it up
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Sep 17, 2015 20:02
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It's great how the people in this thread bring up the exact same arguments Jim is refuting in the video.
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Sep 17, 2015 21:41
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The newest Folding ideas is kinda relevant in this discussion and also really good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxV8gAGmbtk The previous one is good to watch beforehand. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT_E9Jm_Lk8
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Sep 17, 2015 22:33
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prahanormal posted:but somebody somewhere has probably said it so we HAVE to bring it up bottledbodisvhata is a gamergater so he's gotta get that in everywhere he can
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Sep 17, 2015 22:52
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Alaois posted:bottledbodisvhata is a gamergater so he's gotta get that in everywhere he can OK I know bodhisattva isn't a favorite in this thread, but you can't go defaming someone like that without proof, brah.
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Sep 18, 2015 00:16
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Mad Lupine posted:OK I know bodhisattva isn't a favorite in this thread, but you can't go defaming someone like that without proof, brah. They might not be a duck but they sure as hell quack like one.
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Sep 18, 2015 00:31
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Mad Lupine posted:OK I know bodhisattva isn't a favorite in this thread, but you can't go defaming someone like that without proof, brah. Well you're also a gamergater, so...
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Sep 18, 2015 00:38
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DStecks posted:Well you're also a gamergater, so... gently caress you.
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Sep 18, 2015 01:05
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Shut the gently caress up about Gamergate. Why isn't this bannable? You're ruining Ishtar for me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLKZtppbm_Q
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Sep 18, 2015 01:13
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Beefstew posted:Shut the gently caress up about Gamergate. Why isn't this bannable? You're ruining Ishtar for me. Ishtar wasn't ruined in editing?
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Sep 18, 2015 01:15
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My newest Animorphs review is up, this time on #47 The Resistance (Part One, Part Two), where half the book is Civil War historical fiction for some reason. This book equates escaped slaves with Trekkies. I wish I was making that up.
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Sep 18, 2015 03:06
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Hey remember when JesuOtaku or whatever she's called called me an ugly weirdo for disagreeing with her? Ah man, good times. Alright, ya'll can go back to talking about whatever weird obsessive poo poo you care about in this thread. Lol at anyone who actually gave Noah Antwiler money.
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Sep 18, 2015 03:49
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Boy did I choose the wrong hill to die on.
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Sep 18, 2015 03:53
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RE: Quiet, I see a lot of people mad that Kojima doesn't provide any sort of fig leaf or justification for her design, but why would that make it any better? What that says to me is that the people making that complaint care more about decorum and how liking and playing the game makes them look, rather than the actual content itself Just to be clear her design is pretty bad and gross. But some of the critique feels very hypocritical to me, more concerned with being seen as a weirdo who plays the gross anime porn game (which is what MGS is, sorry) than the actual grossness of the content
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Sep 18, 2015 03:56
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watho posted:The newest Folding ideas is kinda relevant in this discussion and also really good. Those were really good videos. And basically back up Sterling. If you are gonna make smut or gore because it's your thing just do it and admit it. Don't come up with bullshit excuses. Because there are enough people smart or cynical enough to see through it. And honestly right now two of my favorite comics are basically smut but with heart and restraint. (Empowered and Sunstone. Both could be full on porn. Neither wants to be. Both have great characters and you want to know what happens next and see everything turn out right. poo poo, by and large they could take their near porn out and still be compelling reads.) It can be done. Kojima and a lot of anime stuff right now are just obviously being creepy creepers and trying to make excuses doesn't work. ( 1000 years old but looks elementary school age is so unbearably repulsive it is currently part of the reason I stopped playing the most recent us released Fire Emblem. Which is from Nintendo a company infamous for trying to be inoffensive as possible!) I dunno. Maybe it comes down to people not wanting to think they are bad people so they invent lies they themselves sort of believe so they can't be a bad person? I made a comment in the video I will short summarize here too: why and how are you showing these things and what point does it have? Like in horror flicks how much of it seems to be for sickos to get off on as opposed to causing genuine discomfort or outrage at things so we as a society will fight it and say NO MORE. (Not to mention just seeing your average horror fan in a theater or reading Fangoria image captions back in the day. Makes one ALMOST sympathize with Siskel n Ebert's joyless church ladying stuff Jones has shown in his videos. Almost.) ) Captain Rufus fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Sep 18, 2015 |
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Sep 18, 2015 03:58
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poparena posted:My newest Animorphs review is up, this time on #47 The Resistance (Part One, Part Two), where half the book is Civil War historical fiction for some reason. This book equates escaped slaves with Trekkies. I wish I was making that up. I believe Applegate and Grant are on record as saying that the series was produced to a punishing schedule with very little editorial oversight. And it's apparent that while this allowed them to sneak some great and often incredibly dark and weird stuff into the books, it also meant that a majority of the instalments (like this one) are pretty first draft quality wise. What's the average score for the series at this point? I imagine that if you math it out that it comes to around five or six out of ten. High Warlord Zog fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Sep 18, 2015 |
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Sep 18, 2015 04:04
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Captain Rufus posted:Those were really good videos. And basically back up Sterling. If you are gonna make smut or gore because it's your thing just do it and admit it. Don't come up with bullshit excuses. Because there are enough people smart or cynical enough to see through it. This is Hideo Kojima we're talking about. Why are people so insistent on acting like the dumb nanomachine photosynthesis thing is supposed to be a 150% serious, un-self-aware justification? It's loving ridiculous. It's a joke. Kojima isn't trying to fig-leaf anything, that is you projecting what you desperately want to be the case onto the game Get mad at the game for being gross and misogynistic or whatever, sure, but don't get mad at it for not pretending to be something it's not, or not helping you pretend it's something it's not Captain Rufus posted:And honestly right now two of my favorite comics are basically smut but with heart and restraint. You've cracked the code. Hypocrisy is a hell of a drug. Enjoy being able to feel morally superior and also read gross porn comics at the same time, I guess icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Sep 18, 2015 |
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Sep 18, 2015 04:07
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icantfindaname posted:RE: Quiet, I see a lot of people mad that Kojima doesn't provide any sort of fig leaf or justification for her design, but why would that make it any better? What that says to me is that the people making that complaint care more about decorum and how liking and playing the game makes them look, rather than the actual content itself MGS is a game with a lot of fanservice, but usually keeps those character designs with one foot semi-grounded in reality like the rest of the game. Even when you get to the more outrageous designs like the FROGS and BB Corps in MGS4, there's generally at least some vague hand-wavy measure of possible practicality to the lightweight body-hugging armor of the FROGS letting them leap about, and skintight bodysuits being part of the BB's integrating with their high-tech powered armor, so the most people remark of it is "lol, yep; Kojima" (Even then those designs swung both ways with ones like Volgin's). Quiet gets more commentary than usual because it just abandoned all semblance of pretext for straight-up T&A aimed at the player in every way possible.
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Sep 18, 2015 04:28
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Neddy Seagoon posted:MGS is a game with a lot of fanservice, but usually keeps those character designs with one foot semi-grounded in reality like the rest of the game. Even when you get to the more outrageous designs like the FROGS and BB Corps in MGS4, there's generally at least some vague hand-wavy measure of possible practicality to the lightweight body-hugging armor of the FROGS letting them leap about, and skintight bodysuits being part of the BB's integrating with their high-tech powered armor, so the most people remark of it is "lol, yep; Kojima" (Even then those designs swung both ways with ones like Volgin's). Quiet gets more commentary than usual because it just abandoned all semblance of pretext for straight-up T&A aimed at the player in every way possible. I'm going to have to disagree with you here. I agree the rest of the series is easier to justify if you are inclined to do so, but I don't think it's intended to be, I think it's 100% people reading that into it. The level of sheer hypocritical moral superiority over the game (and anime in general, if you want to go down that rabbit hole) is incredible. I feel like people (or a certain subset of them) are more mad about the lack of a fig leaf than about Quiet's design itself. It's not that big a deal, but it gets absolutely insufferable listening to it at times icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Sep 18, 2015 |
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Sep 18, 2015 04:32
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Err...What are we arguing about again? I feel like were in an area where we're arguing weird semantics. Lets have something silly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAglj_-1MEs
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Sep 18, 2015 04:40
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icantfindaname posted:RE: Quiet, I see a lot of people mad that Kojima doesn't provide any sort of fig leaf or justification for her design, but why would that make it any better? What that says to me is that the people making that complaint care more about decorum and how liking and playing the game makes them look, rather than the actual content itself  The criticism being discussed is that there is a dumb plot justification for her design and that it doesn't excuse a god drat thing.
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Sep 18, 2015 04:42
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Alacron posted:
It's not a serious justification. It's a joke. I don't understand how someone could not read it as a joke. This is a game series where you fight Dick Cheney in a loving robot suit, it's not a self-serious thing People are mad at the game for not providing an actual, non-joke justification for it, but that wouldn't make her design any better, it would just allow people to continue feeling morally superior while still liking the game icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Sep 18, 2015 |
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Sep 18, 2015 04:46
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having read excerpts from that Grasshopper Studios book, I do have to wonder how much the sexy ladies is Kojima and how much it's yakuza Konami executives breathing down his neck
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Sep 18, 2015 04:48
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icantfindaname posted:I'm going to have to disagree with you here. I agree the rest of the series is easier to justify if you are inclined to do so, but I don't think it's intended to be, I think it's 100% people reading that into it. The level of sheer hypocritical moral superiority over the game (and anime in general, if you want to go down that rabbit hole) is incredible. I feel like people (or a certain subset of them) are more mad about the lack of a fig leaf than about Quiet's design itself. It's not that big a deal, but it gets absolutely insufferable listening to it at times The problem isn't just "Quiet runs around in a bikini" though, which you seem to be clawing onto. Every single idle animation of the character is explicitly designed to wave her rear end or tits at the player, which was what the general discussion was. icantfindaname posted:It's not a serious justification. It's a joke. I don't understand how someone could not read it as a joke. Because it's treated as a serious justification throughout the game?
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Sep 18, 2015 04:49
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icantfindaname posted:It's not a serious justification. It's a joke. I don't understand how someone could not read it as a joke. Because the internet is where humour goes to die.
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Sep 18, 2015 04:50
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Neddy Seagoon posted:The problem isn't just "Quiet runs around in a bikini" though, which you seem to be clawing onto. Every single idle animation of the character is explicitly designed to wave her rear end or tits at the player, which was what the general discussion was. Yes, that's what I mean by 'Quiet's design'. But the problem is people aren't actually mad about her design/sexualization/whatever, they're mad about the game not helping them pretend it's better than it is. Like you do understand the concept of hypocrisy, right? I'm saying you're a hypocrite Neddy Seagoon posted:Because it's treated as a serious justification throughout the game? Again, this is a game where you fight Dick Cheney but with Schwarzenegger muscles piloting a giant robot suit. I guess you could read the nanomachine photosynthesis stuff as serious, but I don't Alaois posted:having read excerpts from that Grasshopper Studios book, I do have to wonder how much the sexy ladies is Kojima and how much it's yakuza Konami executives breathing down his neck I think Kojima just likes his anime tits, though Konami is also happy to make money off anime tits icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Sep 18, 2015 |
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Sep 18, 2015 04:54
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icantfindaname posted:It's not a serious justification. It's a joke. I don't understand how someone could not read it as a joke. This is a game series where you fight Dick Cheney in a loving robot suit, it's not a self-serious thing Oh, it's obvious that it's a joke. The same tired jokes happen every time someone asks why a character has to be barely clothed. It's just such a non-committal and absurd justification that it's easy to say "why is she not bald and in pasties" or whatever. Or ask why she's wearing a bikini with zero breast support when a crop top would still show off skin.
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Sep 18, 2015 05:06
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Internet reviewers huh? How crazy are those people?
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Sep 18, 2015 05:07
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kaleidolia posted:Oh, it's obvious that it's a joke. The same tired jokes happen every time someone asks why a character has to be barely clothed. So if Kojima had had the exact same character, design, animations, whatever, but with a justification somehow acceptable to you, it would be better? How does this work? The design is bad on its own merits, the justification is irrelevant
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Sep 18, 2015 05:12
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icantfindaname posted:So if Kojima had had the exact same character, design, animations, whatever, but with a justification somehow acceptable to you, it would be better? How does this work? The design is bad on its own merits, the justification is irrelevant A justification is important when you're promised one. quote:"I created her character as an antithesis to the women characters appeared in the past fighting game who are excessively exposed. 'Quiet' who doesn't have a word will be teased in the story as well. But once you recognise the secret reason for her exposure, you will feel ashamed of your words & deeds. The response of 'Quiet' disclosure few days ago incited by the net is exactly what MGSV itself is."
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Sep 18, 2015 05:19
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:Internet reviewers huh? How crazy are those people? I'd say pretty crazy, but only on Twitter
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Sep 18, 2015 05:36
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Beefstew posted:Shut the gently caress up about Gamergate. Why isn't this bannable? You're ruining Ishtar for me. 3234423 AND Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:Internet reviewers huh? How crazy are those people? What does noted Internet Reviewer DarkSydePhil have to say about Quiet's design? Also: BottledBodhisvata posted:Lol at anyone who actually gave Noah Antwiler money.
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Sep 18, 2015 05:43
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Leal posted:3234423 AND what about moviebob? can he somehow warp it to be about his childhood?
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Sep 18, 2015 05:47
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BottledBodhisvata posted:Hey remember when JesuOtaku or whatever she's called called me an ugly weirdo for disagreeing with her? Ah man, good times. Nope, I sure don't. BottledBodhisvata posted:Alright, ya'll can go back to talking about whatever weird obsessive poo poo you care about in this thread. Lol at anyone who actually gave Noah Antwiler money. But you kept posting after this, I don't understand, why did you keep posting? I thought this was goodbye...
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Sep 18, 2015 06:19
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icantfindaname posted:It's not a serious justification. It's a joke. I don't understand how someone could not read it as a joke. This is a game series where you fight Dick Cheney in a loving robot suit, it's not a self-serious thing Minor point but you're thinking of Metal Gear Rising, which Kojima did not make or write, just approved of. Platinum Games made it, though the writer did end up getting some work on Phantom Pain, writing some mission scenarios.
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Sep 18, 2015 06:27
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Jay O posted:Nope, I sure don't. Because he's a manbaby that wants people to pay attention to him, even if it is negative attention.
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Sep 18, 2015 07:16
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BottledBodhisvata posted:Lol at anyone who actually gave Noah Antwiler money. Wait, did he do something bad we should know about? Whats with the Noah hate, he seems like a decent thoughtful reviewer to me. 
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Sep 18, 2015 07:18
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JB50 posted:Wait, did he do something bad we should know about? Whats with the Noah hate, he seems like a decent thoughtful reviewer to me. Do you want a list? Or would you settle for just knowing that his output has completely evaporated into nothing save the occasional painful-to-watch vlog wherein he bitches about movies and wrestling for two or three hours. Alacron posted:Do you mean Spoony, or Noah Gervais, the guy who actually offered a refund to his Patreon supporters because he hadn't kept up his schedule. Speaking of, Noah Gervais just released a review for Mad Max. SatansBestBuddy fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Sep 18, 2015 |
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Sep 18, 2015 08:02
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JB50 posted:Wait, did he do something bad we should know about? Whats with the Noah hate, he seems like a decent thoughtful reviewer to me. Do you mean Spoony, or Noah Gervais, the guy who actually offered a refund to his Patreon supporters because he hadn't kept up his schedule.
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Sep 18, 2015 08:05
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Alacron posted:Do you mean Spoony, or Noah Gervais, the guy who actually offered a refund to his Patreon supporters because he hadn't kept up his schedule. Spoony I understand, I thought he meant Gervais. I need to read better. 
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Sep 18, 2015 08:40
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