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His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.
We just blinds here, it's about as effective as you can imagine in stopping light. We live far enough north that we get basically no night during summers. I love it personally and wish it was like this all year around. Kids don't seem to have an issue with it either.

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kells
Mar 19, 2009
We taped blockout material to our daughters windows, then closed the blinds and put up blockout curtains too.

Her room is always dark but it means that even though it's still light at 8pm when it's bedtime she goes to sleep no problem.

VorpalBunny
May 1, 2009

Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog
Ok, I need some advice.

I am a stay-at-home mom of three, ages 5 3 & 1. I consider what I do to be a job, kind of, and take pride in how I raise my kids. I make every effort I can to make sure they are respectful in other people's houses, of other people's stuff, etc. But they are children. And it is Christmas. And they are amped up about presents, about desserts, about everything.

My father-in-law and his wife (my husband's step-mom) hosted Christmas dinner this year. They set a beautiful table with fine china and everything. And they had us set to arrive at 2pm. Which, as every parent knows, is naptime. So, as expected, the kids fell asleep on the drive to their house and I ended up sitting in the driveway with the car running for an hour or two, loving around on my phone. Eventually we all ended up in the house, and we sit for dinner. And the first comment comes, before I even sat down "So, are you still thinking of having more kids?! HAHAHA!" I laugh it off. Then over dinner, when the kids declare themselves to be all done and want to leave the table, and I sigh and take a drink of wine, my stepmother-in-law looks at me and says "Well, you're the one who wanted 3 kids!" There were a few other moments like that, yelling at the kids about random things, and I felt myself getting really pissed.

My 3-year old started having a tantrum so I used it as an excuse to leave the house with her to cool off. She & I settled down, we both went back in for dessert and presents, but I realized that I simply don't feel comfortable in that house. I am constantly walking on eggshells around these people, waiting for the next comment or sarcastic sneer about my kids, and especially in their house where nothing is babyproofed. I occurred to me, maybe I don't have to do this anymore. These people who never really raised kids (the other dinner guests are single and childless, my stepfather divorced my husband's mom when my husband was 2 and only had his kids on weekends when they were preteens, and the stepmother came into the picture when they were teens) and they don't actually seem to like my kids very much. So, why am I putting myself through this hell? Over dessert, my father-in-law made a sarcastic remark about how my husband would have been a "much better person" if he wasn't raised with a television, and I promptly said it was time to go home.

I saved the conversation with my husband for when we were alone this evening, but I told him I do not want to go over to their home again. I explained how uncomfortable they make me, how much work it is to keep the kids in check at their house, and how generally unhappy I was tonight. And the kicker is, its his birthday tomorrow so I get to see the whole gang again. Expecting the same kind of comments about my family, I told my husband to celebrate without me and the kids. I honestly feel like I may snap and yell at his family, and I really don't want to do that. Especially in front of the kids. So, I am opting out instead of risking a scene.

I guess the help I need is - am I way out of line? Do I keep working at making these kinds of interactions happen, even though I walk away unhappy and frustrated? It is family, after all, but considering they have told me before to my face that they don't really like kids before they can have a coherent conversation, do I have to make the effort anymore? And do I tell them that their behavior bothers me, even though this is kind of who they are and I doubt they can change at their old age? I showed this post to my husband before I submitted it, so he knows exactly what I am dealing with, so any advice can be directed to either of us. Its a conundrum neither of us wanted to acknowledge but it's only getting worse as his dad and stepmom get older.

Gatac
Apr 22, 2008

Fifty Cent's next biopic.
Disclaimer: Lurker, not a parent myself but uncle to a very...spirited...three-year old boy. I'm only jumping in here because I see a similar pattern with my sister and her mother-in-law. MIL doesn't disapprove of the kid in the abstract, but she's not so good at dealing with him and also argumentative with her son, which makes every family shindig with her more stressful.

Anyway.

The important question to me here is: do you feel that you "owe" them your presence, with all the stress for you and your kids that entails? I'm not a huge fan of these obligatory family get-togethers where people don't actually want to see and hang out with each other. I think this sense of obligation can quickly sour relationships that would be more pleasant for both sides outside of that context.

You don't deserve to be sniped at by your (extended) family. Your kids don't deserve to be stuck at a "formal" get-together where the hosts cannot or do not want to accommodate their needs. Your husband does not deserve to have his interactions with his parents darkened by their apparent inability to be cordial with you. (Though from that TV remark they made about him, I'm not so sure that's a really good relationship even without you and the kids in the mix.)

Take care of yourself, your kids and your husband first. The holidays are already hard enough without sniping and arguments over the dinner table. Feel free to include them once they learn that you won't put up with this kind of behavior, but don't sacrifice your sanity on the altar of "But we're a family!".

hepscat
Jan 16, 2005

Avenging Nun
The way I see it, your husband's first obligation is to his immediate family - that means the woman he married and the children he made. In this situation he either needs to have a come to Jesus talk with his father about the way he and his wife treat you, or you guys need to stop going to their house for holidays. You could try inviting them to your house for Christmas dinner or whatever it is. Another option is to just tell them that you are having holidays at home and you don't need to volunteer any other information, really. It doesn't sound like they will be begging you to come.

Since your husband is going there without you guys tomorrow I am betting he's in the non-confrontational category and he is probably the one you need to get straight on this. It's his blood relatives, he should be the one communicating and taking care of his three kids' needs. If it were your father, you'd be the one to lay it out about the holidays.

If nothing else I don't see why you guys haven't claimed your husband's birthday. He's a grown-rear end man, he doesn't need his dad throwing him a party.

Edit: seriously, you guys should just take the kids to whatever zoo or theme park is open near where you live tomorrow for your husband's birthday. Have a dinner in a restaurant. There is really no reason to spend time with jerks, even if they're related to you. Once people can't be civil your obligations to them end.

hepscat fucked around with this message at 09:00 on Dec 26, 2015

VorpalBunny
May 1, 2009

Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog

hepscat posted:

If nothing else I don't see why you guys haven't claimed your husband's birthday. He's a grown-rear end man, he doesn't need his dad throwing him a party.

Edit: seriously, you guys should just take the kids to whatever zoo or theme park is open near where you live tomorrow for your husband's birthday. Have a dinner in a restaurant. There is really no reason to spend time with jerks, even if they're related to you. Once people can't be civil your obligations to them end.

To be fair, we are doing a few family activities tomorrow. We are also having a big fancy dinner at a restaurant with our friends and family (its his 40th birthday) and that is what I am opting out of. He reluctantly agreed with my desire to keep the kids home so he can have some grown-up time and "celebrate" his old age. I put him in a bind and nothing we do is going to be perfect, but I honestly think its just better if I keep my distance for now. Almost everyone invited to dinner tomorrow night is childless, and they just don't understand what its like to raise kids. Nor do they seem to want to understand.

My husband has read these responses, which only reconfirmed his plans to speak to his father and stepmother about this issue at some point soon. But not on his birthday, though I can see it coming up if people have a few too many and make a snarky remark. I am totally fine with hosting all future family events, though I am no gourmet chef and our house is littered with toys which I keep contained as best I can. It hasn't stopped the snark in the past, but its worth a shot.

I just feel like if something makes you miserable, you stop doing the thing that makes you miserable. It just sucks when that involves your immediate family and has ramifications beyond your control.

hookerbot 5000
Dec 21, 2009
It is difficult. Christmas has always been for me more about the children having fun than the adults and dragging them away from their presents to spend time somewhere they have to keep their behaviour in check and not do what comes naturally feels a bit like robbing them of the one day a year where they can eat chocolate for breakfast and play with whatever they want. Giving them a load of cool new stuff then telling them they have to leave it behind while they go somewhere deadly dull to eat brussel sprouts...I'd have a bit of a huff at that and I'm 36.

In your position I would go for 'In future we're going to have Christmas in our home, and you are welcome to join us if you want to'. Don't mention it now as it'll seem like it's a dig but if your husband tells them towards the end of the year. It does make more sense - they only have to transport adults whereas you have a load of kids and as you say your home is designed for them whereas theirs isn't - so there's more than enough reasons to justify it without having to go into detail about how uncomfortable you feel if you want to avoid talking about it.

EVG
Dec 17, 2005

If I Saw It, Here's How It Happened.
Listen Bunny, this is coming from someone with no kids who is starting to think I might never go that direction.

What you do isn't a job, "kind of". It is a FULL TIME JOB, and even more so than many actual workplace careers, because you don't get to stand up at 5 and go "well, my day is done, see all this tomorrow!" You have dedicated yourself to raising three children and that is totally a legitimate job.

Anyway - Devils Advocate says that maybe they don't realize that their comments are so snide and hurtful- it might just be the thing where it's like "oh ho ho, you're having a baby, you'll never get to sleep again!" Type comment where they think they are being amusing but don't realize how it comes across.

Or they could just be jerks.

Either way, you shouldn't feel obligated to spend your holiday- or any day- in a place you are not comfortable and with people who make you feel that way and don't appreciate/ understand that kids are kids and that other life path choices than their own are perfectly valid and such.

If you'd mentioned it last week, I'd have said "husbands birthday is about him. It's hus day, do what he wants that day." But you already spent Xmas over there, and that's enough for now. Next year, stay home or hang out with friends at your place or theirs and gave the Holiday that will make you and your family comfortable and bring you joy.

GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013

Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.
It honestly sounds like they either don't particularly want the kids there and will be breathing (private, of course, to keep up appearances) sighs of relief. Just sounds like they don't particularly like or feel comfortable around children.

It might be in everyone's interest just to conveniently have plans elsewhere, indefinitely, until and unless they specifically ask for the kids to be there (or are they doing that now? Even then it might be best to keep the visits short and sweet)

GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Dec 26, 2015

sheri
Dec 30, 2002

If it's stressing you out and you don't want to do it, no we aren't coming is always an option.

We live a few hours away from all our family members and next year we aren't going anywhere on Christmas Eve or day. We are doing our own thing at home. I'm sure this will ruffle some feathers but oh well,we need our time to relax and enjoy the holiday and that's just not happening with packing a car full of poo poo, driving forever, and chasing a toddler around keeping him away from breakable things in nom child proofed homes. And then turning around and driving forever back home.

Doorknob Slobber
Sep 10, 2006

by Fluffdaddy

Reason posted:

Why don't people listen when you ask them to stop buying your kid stupid toys. He's got enough toys. He plays with them for about 30 seconds and then he's done. STOP BUYING THE CHILD TOYS. I asked people to buy him experiences for his birthday, like tickets to the zoo and poo poo like that, not a single zoo ticket or anything. A bunch of plastic junk I have to spend all day stepping on.

Jesus gently caress christmas. After celebrating his birthday and making this post my wife and I restated our desire to have less unused clutter around the house. My mother-in-law decided the best response was to buy him approx 20 little matchbox cars and this 300+ piece glow in the dark track thing with battery operated cars that he's absolutely terrified of. No receipts, no way to exchange. I just want to go into my backyard with a gallon of gasoline and torch everything.

sheri
Dec 30, 2002

You could just donate the toys you don't want somewhere?

Doorknob Slobber
Sep 10, 2006

by Fluffdaddy

sheri posted:

You could just donate the toys you don't want somewhere?

And inflict this terror on other parents? I think not. I'll donate reasonable toys with educational value and that are not a million separate pieces.

photomikey
Dec 30, 2012
I just use the plastic crap until it starts to fall apart and then ferry it to the trashcan. Sometimes a few hours, sometimes a few days, sometimes it lasts months.

VorpalBunny posted:

I guess the help I need is - am I way out of line? Do I keep working at making these kinds of interactions happen, even though I walk away unhappy and frustrated? It is family, after all, but considering they have told me before to my face that they don't really like kids before they can have a coherent conversation, do I have to make the effort anymore? And do I tell them that their behavior bothers me, even though this is kind of who they are and I doubt they can change at their old age? I showed this post to my husband before I submitted it, so he knows exactly what I am dealing with, so any advice can be directed to either of us. Its a conundrum neither of us wanted to acknowledge but it's only getting worse as his dad and stepmom get older.
I will diverge from the groupthink here, and say that I think a) what you're dealing with is not that bad, and b) yes, you should continue trying to work at family interactions.

It sounds like, from reading your post, that over a several-hour period, a few snide remarks were made and a few trying situations were averted from disaster. All-in-all, that's a reasonably successful holiday. If there was a fistfight over dinner and people were doing lines of coke on the coffee table, I'd say you could cut ties. But it's not that way at all.

Next year, when they tell you dinner's at 2, tell them that sadly, naptime is at two, you can only come before naptime (10a) or after naptime (4p). This gives them the option to either move the meal to suit you, or gives them a clever out. Then you can roll in at 10 and exchange gifts and hit the road whenever things start getting snarky.

My in-laws are a moderate pain in the rear end (as yours are) and over the years it's gotten better. I'll tell you when it really got better was when they would say something controversial (I heard cloth diapers are actually worse for the environment than disposable diapers) and instead of trying to prove to them that they were wrong, I'd give them the "oh, that's interesting!" look, and nod, and not say anything. Which pretty much kills the conversation dead in its tracks, and then you can say something like "this bean dip is delicious! Are those green chiles?". I found that this not only killed the argument, it also made me less sensitive to these meaningless barbs.

If your in-laws lived next door and were dropping by daily, I'd say you need family CPR, but for a visit a couple times a year, I'd just roll with it.

If you declare you're never going to see them again and stop coming over to their house, you're going to be branded a bitch and things will be weird forever.

bee
Dec 17, 2008


Do you often sing or whistle just for fun?

photomikey posted:


If you declare you're never going to see them again and stop coming over to their house, you're going to be branded a bitch and things will be weird forever.

If they treat the OP in such a way that she has zero desire to spend any more of her time and effort on going to see them, then I don't see why she would care if they happen to think this way. They sound like disrespectful arseholes, and I don't see why people should get to be excused for behaving in such a way towards family members just because they're related.

Kitiara
Apr 21, 2009

photomikey posted:

I will diverge from the groupthink here, and say that I think a) what you're dealing with is not that bad, and b) yes, you should continue trying to work at family interactions.


I will agree that the specific things that you mentioned didn't seem like that big of a deal. I can certainly cope with snipe comments a lot better on some days than on others, and I am a big believer on trying to work at family interactions. However, I am also a big mama bear when it comes to my kids. You are a family, and if they don't want your kids around (who should be free to roam around at their grandfather's house) then there is no reason to submit yourself to it.

I think it depends on what sort of interactions you get from your father-in-law in general, and what relationship he wants to have with your husband and your kids. If he wants to be a grandfather and have a relationship with his grandchildren, or whether he just want to do a social thing once at year. If the first, I would put in a bit more effort, if the latter... meh. What benefit are your kids getting from an awkward dinner once at year?

GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013

Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.

To be fair, my advice was "don't bring the kids over unless they actually for real want them there, in which case still worth keeping it short and sweet".

Your suggestion definitely offers more concrete tactical advice though.

notwithoutmyanus
Mar 17, 2009

Kitiara posted:

What benefit are your kids getting from an awkward dinner once at year?

Sorry, but this is everything to me personally as far as Vorpal's original questions. TLDR is: bad family is bad family, and they aren't worth seeing if it adds stress. Families share stress. On one hand, how many red flags need to go off? OTOH, If Vorpal's family chooses to remain tolerant of said inlaws, she will need to set boundaries to avoid creating the ugliness of codependency - basically by using photomikey's AND Glyph's suggestions - keep visits short.

Nothing against your husband, but some families tend to turn a deaf ear to issues raised by their own kids. As in: my mom won't listen to obvious problems I raise to her, but in contrast if I raise issues to my wife's family they get addressed better - even if stated verbatim by both my wife and myself.

VorpalBunny
May 1, 2009

Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog

Kitiara posted:

I think it depends on what sort of interactions you get from your father-in-law in general, and what relationship he wants to have with your husband and your kids. If he wants to be a grandfather and have a relationship with his grandchildren, or whether he just want to do a social thing once at year. If the first, I would put in a bit more effort, if the latter... meh. What benefit are your kids getting from an awkward dinner once at year?

My father-in-law is a generally sarcastic individual, but he is also a rather terrible father in general. He has told us specifically he is not interested in hanging out with our kids until they are much older, and he refused to get a TDAP booster when my kids were born. He's just not into little kids, which I can appreciate, and I guess I just got to the point where I realized I was doing so much work for so very little return. They barely interact with my kids at each of these dinners and gatherings, so why should I bend over backwards to make them happen?

But I am not my kids. Maybe these few moments with their grandparents are precious to them, and my bitching and moaning is more selfish and pointless than anything else. I may not know for a long, long time.

These are the aspects of parenting I was not ready for. You hear about the obvious stuff (potty training, hitting, teething, etc) but you don't really read about this stuff in the baby books.

photomikey
Dec 30, 2012

Kitiara posted:

What benefit are your kids getting from an awkward dinner once at year?
They are learning that our family is still our family even if we don't agree on every little thing. That friends may come and go, but year after year you see the same people at birthdays and Christmas and Easter and we share a common lineage and common values. That it is not okay to be snarky to them but when they are snarky to you sometimes you have to be the bigger person and let it slide off your back.

Lots of things are a pain in the rear end when you have multiple little kids, things like eating at restaurants and grocery shopping and sitting at nice family dinners. But you don't stop grocery shopping just because the three kids are animals - you do the best you can, sometimes you shop alone and sometimes you shop with one kid and when you have to you take all three and beat them into submission as best you can. You don't shop just before naptime, you don't shop when hungry, you plan ahead a little and make it as easy as possible given the circumstances. So when you say...

VorpalBunny posted:

They barely interact with my kids at each of these dinners and gatherings, so why should I bend over backwards to make them happen?

I'd say don't "bend over backwards", but find a way to do Christmas that works for you and them, and if that means coming over the next day or the day before, so be it. Your 5 year old is on his/her way to "much older" right now, and people who don't like babies often can hang out (and enjoy) 5, 6, 7 year olds, even if they're not into the 1 year old and it hurts your feelings.

edit: hurts your feelings, and rightfully so.

photomikey fucked around with this message at 08:41 on Dec 27, 2015

sheri
Dec 30, 2002

But if your family treats you like poo poo they aren't deserving of your time. This goes for people in general, family or not.

lorddazron
Mar 31, 2011

sheri posted:

But if your family treats you like poo poo they aren't deserving of your time. This goes for people in general, family or not.

Complete agreement here. I get the whole "family" thing but to me you choose your family. Just because someone is "family" but otherwise is an insufferable arse at what should be a very family orientated time of year doesnt mean they are worth spending your time and attention on.

I speak from some pretty major exprience here because I had the same situation with my parents and the reality was that they didnt respect my values or me as a person enough to even try and be accomodating or attempt to toddlerproof etc. We had the same situation with naptimes etc - always being invited to theirs for family gatherings at naptimes and even when we tried to change this amd invite people to ours they declined because it meant they couldnt act like they normally would in their own home.

Admittedly my situation was a lot worse and continued to get worse but heres the thing - your inlaws dont get to choose when they have a relationship with their grandchildren. They either build that relationship from the very beginning or they dont have one. Just because they dont like small children doesnt mean they can only choose a relationship later in their lives.

Frankly why would you even want people in your childrens lives who think like that? Have an honest conversation with your husband which spells this out. It honestly sounds like his relationship with them isnt fantastic anyway but the important thing is your children. They come first no matter what (not that im saying they dont already) and im a big believer that children should see positive family and friends relationships rather than endure negative relationships simply because they are "family". The other thing that absolutely sucks to me is the fact that your husband is going to celebrate a major milestone birthday without his wife and kids by his side. I know everyone is different but in his situation id be calling off the meal and stayig at home too.

What i'd do in your situation is give them one more chance but in a place you feel comfortable. Next big family meal invite them to yours if possible or if this isnt possible have a conversation which says what time you can come over, not what time they would like you. See how that goes and youll see what value they place on the relationship

Kitiara
Apr 21, 2009

photomikey posted:

They are learning that our family is still our family even if we don't agree on every little thing. That friends may come and go, but year after year you see the same people at birthdays and Christmas and Easter and we share a common lineage and common values. That it is not okay to be snarky to them but when they are snarky to you sometimes you have to be the bigger person and let it slide off your back.

Lots of things are a pain in the rear end when you have multiple little kids, things like eating at restaurants and grocery shopping and sitting at nice family dinners. But you don't stop grocery shopping just because the three kids are animals - you do the best you can, sometimes you shop alone and sometimes you shop with one kid and when you have to you take all three and beat them into submission as best you can. You don't shop just before naptime, you don't shop when hungry, you plan ahead a little and make it as easy as possible given the circumstances.

And I agree with all of the above. I place a high value on family too. Some of my best memories were going to my great grandmother's house for Christmas once at year. We didn't make it every year, but I really enjoyed it when we did because of getting to see those people and catching up with them. However, if instead of hanging out with cousins and enjoying myself the memories were of a stiff dinner where I was made to feel un-welcomed? I highly doubt I would remember them fondly. Remember that there are the only kids at this event and barely have any interaction with the adults.

My family was very unpleasant to me growing up (and still are to some extent), and I have had to re-evaluate and set limits to how far family obligations should go. I could certainly put up with a few snarky comments here and there for family get-togethers, but I don't see why she should make an effort to take her kids somewhere they are obviously not wanted. Furthermore, this is not the only family event, right? This is one out of four grandparent who has stated he doesn't want to have much to do with them until they're older. I think having fond memories of having fun with grandpa from 10-16 is better than mixed memories from 5-16.

I live in Australia (same as my husband's parents) and my parents live in the US. So whatever we do, my kids are getting robbed of one set of grandparents. I try to facetime my mom at least once at week, and since my daughter was born I have been either flying my mom here or taking my kids to go see her. But the more kids we have, the harder that will be. Sometimes we try to do the best for our kids, but it doesn't pan out. There are no books for these circumstances, and some kids will wish that VB would have made a bigger efforts, while other kids will wish that she would have not made them go to those dinners. I think talking about it and thinking it through is the best you can do.

If I was you, I would speak to my in-law and tell him that Christmas is a family event but you are happy to attend his dinner on a different day. Or that you can be at the dinner after 2pm. Some of the suggestions photomikey made. Basically, I would try to make the day be less painful, but if it would still bother me that much, I wouldn't feel guilty at all for giving it a miss for a couple of years.

Kitiara
Apr 21, 2009

Tom Swift Jr. posted:

Kitiara,
While I hope you will reconsider your use of physical punishment (and really all punishment is counterproductive in the long-term), I will say that your response shows that you are including key elements that are incredibly good. You make your expectations clear, you provide a consistent climate and are consistent with your consequences, and you do so in a calm manner. You also communicate openly with your children. In many ways, you are probably doing better than a lot of parents. The fact that you are considering your options and are reflecting on your choices speaks volumes. I do believe that any physical punishment is bad, but I think that we should be careful to leap to harsh judgement of people who use physical punishment. Non-physical punishments can be more damaging than physical punishments. Context is important.

ETA: I am not the perfect parent and I do not always live up to the standards that I preach. I think the important thing is that we are aware of what is best practice and that we strive to attain that and that when we make mistakes we own them. That includes admitting to our children we messed up and will try to do better. We are all just trying to do our best.

Hey I noticed that I never replied to this, and I just wanted to say thank you. I appreciated your words. My 3 year old is pretty obedient and reasonable these days (knock on wood), and talking seems to be all it takes. However, I do still have a 18 month old and so I have been looking at alternative methods. Any links or books recommendations would be appreciated =)

Also, I forgot to say... but a big nod to being a stay home mom isn't a "kind of job", it is most certainly a full time job.

VorpalBunny
May 1, 2009

Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog

Kitiara posted:

If I was you, I would speak to my in-law and tell him that Christmas is a family event but you are happy to attend his dinner on a different day. Or that you can be at the dinner after 2pm. Some of the suggestions photomikey made. Basically, I would try to make the day be less painful, but if it would still bother me that much, I wouldn't feel guilty at all for giving it a miss for a couple of years.

I've had a few days to marinate on all of this, and I think this is my takeaway - my kids only really have one grandparent interested in actually being an involved grandparent, and that's my husband's mother who lives 3 states away. We visit her frequently (we are flying out tomorrow for a few days of fun in the snow with her) but it's going to be difficult with 3 kids and 2 adults! And expensive! So we only get to visit her once or twice a year, but we make sure we do it because she engages with the kids, she buys lots of used toys at the local thrift shops so the kids have toys to play with, she talks to them, she cares about their comfort, etc. She is everything a kid would want in a grandparent!

The local grandparent we have is my husband's father, who is the disinterested one. We see him once every two months or so for dinners to celebrate birthdays or father's day or something. I am going to offer to host for each of these kinds of events, and any invite we get to their home I will politely decline. My husband is interested in having a conversation with them about how uncomfortable we feel in their home, how guilty we feel when the kids do something to gently caress up the house or something, and how much easier it would be for everyone for us to host at our childproofed house.

The other grandparent is my mother, who is frankly a terrible caregiver. She reads her kindle or plays Sudoku when the kids want to play with her, when my kids were infants she let them fall off a bed not once but twice, she just doesn't know what to do with kids. Her intentions are good, but her social skills are missing - she treats my kids like she does her cats. She is also very out of shape and can't even sit on the ground to play with my kids. She's like having a 4th kid around, more a pain in the rear end than anything else. BUT she lives a few hours away and makes an effort to visit often and the kids speak of her fondly, so we make it happen. THAT is a grin-and-bear-it kind of visit, but I know the kids get some value out of her presence.

I really have no family of my own besides my mother, so I go out of my way to make sure we spend time with my husband's family. And the thing that really sucks is that everyone is getting old, and when my kids will really be in a place to interact with my husband's father he'll be in his 80s! So it's kind of now or never, which is why deciding to potentially restrict our interactions has been such a struggle.

I really want to thank everyone for the input. It's nice to know there are other families out there dealing with these kinds of issues.

Cheesus
Oct 17, 2002

Let us retract the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wirebrush of enlightenment.
Yam Slacker

VorpalBunny posted:

I've had a few days to marinate on all of this, and I think this is my takeaway - my kids only really have one grandparent interested in actually being an involved grandparent, and that's my husband's mother who lives 3 states away. We visit her frequently (we are flying out tomorrow for a few days of fun in the snow with her) but it's going to be difficult with 3 kids and 2 adults! And expensive! So we only get to visit her once or twice a year, but we make sure we do it because she engages with the kids, she buys lots of used toys at the local thrift shops so the kids have toys to play with, she talks to them, she cares about their comfort, etc. She is everything a kid would want in a grandparent!
That's great! That's definitely the kind of relationship to cultivate!

To alleviate the expense and headache of travelling to her, in the future, is it possible that she could visit your family? Either on her own financially or could you offer to help both with travel and any gift shipping she may want to do.

LCL-Dead
Apr 22, 2014

Grimey Drawer
During the grand adventure that was taking my 2 and 4 year old daughters on a cross country flight from Maryland to New Mexico to visit my 80 year old grandmother (as a surprise) for her birthday, my 4 year old managed to break both of the bones in her left forearm.

Even after some of the things I've seen done to the human body by high speed collisions, bombs, bullets and all around warfare, it was probably one of the most horrific things I've seen in the last few years. Bad enough to rival some pretty hosed up poo poo (No, it was not a compound fracture). I never realized how badly I would feel if one of my children were hurt and there was no clear blame or place I could direct that instant bit of rage and nothing I could directly do to ease their pain.

She's got a pretty purple cast and is doing well though.

VorpalBunny
May 1, 2009

Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog

Cheesus posted:

To alleviate the expense and headache of travelling to her, in the future, is it possible that she could visit your family? Either on her own financially or could you offer to help both with travel and any gift shipping she may want to do.

Well, because she is a person who really likes to take care of other people and to feel needed, she married a man a few years ago who has severe medical problems and doesn't travel well. And he has early signs of dementia, so she doesn't feel comfortable leaving him alone. So, we visit her. If she feels she can take a weekend off, she comes to visit but that's maybe once a year. And with his declining health, plus she's also worried she is being muscled out of her job partly due to her age, I don't think she will be leaving on any trips soon.

LCL-Dead posted:

During the grand adventure that was taking my 2 and 4 year old daughters on a cross country flight from Maryland to New Mexico to visit my 80 year old grandmother (as a surprise) for her birthday, my 4 year old managed to break both of the bones in her left forearm.

I can't even imagine how you managed the trip dealing with something like that. Parenting is such a physical and emotional roller coaster!

LCL-Dead
Apr 22, 2014

Grimey Drawer

VorpalBunny posted:

I can't even imagine how you managed the trip dealing with something like that. Parenting is such a physical and emotional roller coaster!

I have a hell of a wife, that's how.

The 4 year old took the break in stride though. She turned out to be a tough little chick. By the time I had scooped her up and was carrying her to the car we were down to just whimpering. Once in the car and for the duration of the 7 minute drive to the nearest hospital all she complained about was not wanting to get another shot and wanting to go home. The only other intense pain she had to face was when they set the bones, as they did it prior to giving her anything for pain. Poor girl, he arm was 3" shorter than it was supposed to be and bent up into a very crude V shape. Broke my loving heart to see her like that.

Once it was splinted (They wouldn't put a cast on until she could see an actual ortho doc back in North Carolina) they gave her a sling and she was pretty much good to go from there on out. No real complaints unless she bumped it too hard and we very quickly got her off of the codeine and onto chewable motrin for the pain since she wasn't complaining about the arm. Now she only gets real pain when she bumps her fingers against something or puts to much weight on them using the arm, stretching the tendons in the forearm but I've already noticed an improvement in how much she's using what limited mobility the cast allows her fingers.

drat kids really are made of rubber.

LCL-Dead fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Dec 28, 2015

BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002

Jade Ear Joe
First real Christmas with a kid. She was 4 months old last time and 16 months this time. Obviously still doesn't really grasp what Christmas is in the least, but WAY more active than last time :). Holy crap holidays with a child is exhausting.

Utterly. loving. Exhausting.

Thwomp
Apr 10, 2003

BA-DUHHH

Grimey Drawer
Any tips for transitioning to a toddler bed?

My son (18 months) is capable of climbing out of his crib if he's bored enough but is still sleeping pretty soundly. We've got a toddler bed frame from family but I'm not sure we should move him this young. Am I wrong?

sheri
Dec 30, 2002

If he's climbing out he needs to get out of the crib.

LCL-Dead
Apr 22, 2014

Grimey Drawer
We took the high rails off and put the bed conversion rails on for both of our girls around 18 months.

My mindset was of the "if she falls out she falls out" type and I just placed another baby mattress under the edge of their bed to catch them after the whopping 12" fall. Can't speak for the wife, she was a lot more relaxed about it than I was. By 2 years old they were both in regular beds, though we had to work in some under-the-sheet padding to keep the younger one from rolling out of bed.

Hi_Bears
Mar 6, 2012

I've also heard the recommendation of putting the crib mattress on the floor and letting them sleep there. Baby proof their room and doorknob so they're still in a safe confined space, and have a few toys they can entertain themselves with when they wake up.

sullat
Jan 9, 2012
A toddler bed is only like 12 inches high, so no worries if they fall out. If your concern is that they run around or something, just barrier up the sleeping area.

LCL-Dead
Apr 22, 2014

Grimey Drawer

sullat posted:

A toddler bed is only like 12 inches high, so no worries if they fall out. If your concern is that they run around or something, just barrier up the sleeping area.

I literally used to turn my daughter's crib so that it faced the wall and prevented her being able to get out of it because she would run over to her older sister's bed and begin jumping on it/demanding to play if we didn't. Luckily the crib rails were too high for her to reach and she stopped doing that (while we also staggered their bed times) before she was able to climb them. She'll still do it if we put them down together but it's a rare thing these days.

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...
We got cribs that convert into toddler beds, so I'm lucky there, but regardless of your setup once your kid is climbing the rails, it's time to both set up the toddler bed, and set up the gate so that they don't barge out of their room at 3AM because all of a sudden mom and dad are no longer inaccessible.

Waking up to a tiny person standing in your doorway, watching you sleep, is pretty creepy.

Kitiara
Apr 21, 2009

Volmarias posted:

We got cribs that convert into toddler beds, so I'm lucky there, but regardless of your setup once your kid is climbing the rails, it's time to both set up the toddler bed, and set up the gate so that they don't barge out of their room at 3AM because all of a sudden mom and dad are no longer inaccessible.

Is this how you guys are keeping your kids out? Because I need help. We just moved our little one into a toddler bed, and she has been waking up and walking to our bed while playing "mami, mami, mami" like a broken record. Every single night. It's bad enough that we have the 3 year old still doing that a few nights at week, but now it's like their playing tag and doing this all night long.

I can close the door to their room or the door to mine, but the 3 year old can, and frequently does, open it.

bee
Dec 17, 2008


Do you often sing or whistle just for fun?
We just moved our two year old from a cot into a toddler bed. We're using a combination of a baby gate across her bedroom door and a gro clock to try to get her used to the idea that we stay in our bedroom until the sun comes out (6am on the gro clock) playing or resting, and then everyone gets up together to start the day. So far it's working pretty well, she seems to be understanding that we stay in the bedroom until the sun appears, but she still yells for us if she has an early wake up, usually around 530am. Baby steps! It's daylight savings here too so I think once that reverts that'll make a difference too.

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LCL-Dead
Apr 22, 2014

Grimey Drawer

Kitiara posted:

Is this how you guys are keeping your kids out? Because I need help. We just moved our little one into a toddler bed, and she has been waking up and walking to our bed while playing "mami, mami, mami" like a broken record. Every single night. It's bad enough that we have the 3 year old still doing that a few nights at week, but now it's like their playing tag and doing this all night long.

I can close the door to their room or the door to mine, but the 3 year old can, and frequently does, open it.

Short of locking the doors there's not much I can do to keep my 4 year old out of our room. I'd rather her come in and get in bed with us than roam the house by herself and potentially get into things she's not supposed to get into since she's reached a level of intelligence and strength that allows her to bypass all of the child safety locks and gates in the house.

Thankfully they don't talk when they come to bed though. Both of our daughters just come into the room and get in bed. Our annoyance comes from them waking up at 0530 in the morning and being wide awake from that point on out. Often they get up with my alarm (My alarm goes off at 0515 and we're in the next room) and I'll have to lay them back down and remind them that it's not time to get up until the sun has come up.

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