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hilariously west wing did a "bernie sanders type attempts to primary jed during re-election to push him left" and the characters flipped out about it in the exact same way liberals do about bernie
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Sep 13, 2017 21:49
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Raskolnikov38 posted:hilariously west wing did a "bernie sanders type attempts to primary jed during re-election to push him left" and the characters flipped out about it in the exact same way liberals do about bernie we're all living in aaron sorkin's coke-fueled fantasy
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Sep 13, 2017 21:50
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I'm half tempted to get the kindle or audiobook of this thing just so I can be my own primary source but I feel like that will just invite goons cheering on my suffering for their entertainment. Also I'm not sure I want to hear this thing narrated by the author for what, 10+ hours?
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Sep 13, 2017 21:51
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If you want to complain about centrists you have to start getting people to note vote for centrists and then offer them a viable alternative more than once every 4 years. You can whine all you want about Hillary but she beat Bernie in the primaries and won the PV by 3 million people.
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Sep 13, 2017 21:53
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Jaxyon posted:If you want to complain about centrists you have to start getting people to note vote for centrists and then offer them a viable alternative more than once every 4 years. had the republican nominee been literally anyone else it would have been an '84 type landslide
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Sep 13, 2017 21:54
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Of the 2016 GOP primary crop? Who exactly that had anything close to a decent chance of winning?Cerebral Bore posted:lol. If the president is that popular the challenge in question will go literally nowhere and nothing will be affected. So logically the only thing that could be a big deal to you here is to not think that Obama is some mythical demigod that can do no wrong and must never be opposed. I can't immediately think of any 'Primary the sitting president' event in US history that did not end badly for the party in question, at least not any serious one.
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Sep 13, 2017 21:55
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Jaxyon posted:If you want to complain about centrists you have to start getting people to note vote for centrists and then offer them a viable alternative more than once every 4 years. I agree, but that's why Sanders is proposing Medicare For All now. That's part of how you create a viable alternative.
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Sep 13, 2017 21:55
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Why did USPol get gassed/banned anyways?
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Sep 13, 2017 21:56
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Accretionist posted:Why did USPol get gassed/banned anyways? People couldn't shut the gently caress up about primary chat.
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Sep 13, 2017 21:57
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Xae posted:People couldn't shut the gently caress up about primary chat. That is not at all why the previous USPol got closed. e: Oops, never mind, I was thinking of the USPol thread before that. Majorian fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Sep 13, 2017 |
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Sep 13, 2017 21:58
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e: poo poo, nevermind - misread the post I was replying to. Clearly time to take a break.
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Sep 13, 2017 21:58
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The Muppets On PCP posted:we're all living in aaron sorkin's coke-fueled fantasy I've certainly read less compelling explanations for 2017.
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Sep 13, 2017 21:58
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Personally, I stopped following them because they were hyper-toxic shitholes filled with toxicity-loving weirdos. Didn't see any of what happened before they were ended
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Sep 13, 2017 21:59
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Xae posted:People couldn't shut the gently caress up about primary chat. like you?
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Sep 13, 2017 22:02
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Jaxyon posted:If you want to complain about centrists you have to start getting people to note vote for centrists and then offer them a viable alternative more than once every 4 years. You're doing the thing people do sometimes where you confuse individuals on the Internet with the greater political faction you associate them with at large. As a shitposter on SA, I can complain about whoever I want, just as you're doing right now, even though I haven't been running for city council chair or whatever the gently caress. 
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Sep 13, 2017 22:03
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Taerkar posted:I can't immediately think of any 'Primary the sitting president' event in US history that did not end badly for the party in question, at least not any serious one. As I said, if the president is that popular the challenge won't be serious, because it'll fail immediately.
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Sep 13, 2017 22:04
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Jaxyon posted:If you want to complain about centrists you have to start getting people to note vote for centrists and then offer them a viable alternative more than once every 4 years. yep, people are working on all that. progressives are being elected in oklahoma! whoo! quote:You can whine all you want about Hillary but she beat Bernie in the primaries and won the PV by 3 million people. and now bernie is doing a lot for the dem party, while hillary goes on a bunch of talkshows and slags bernie
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Sep 13, 2017 22:05
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Xae posted:People couldn't shut the gently caress up about primary chat. The fact that this is the case maaaaay have something to do with the folks who consistently bitch about people being mean to Clinton acting like huge passive aggressive wangs until somebody finally calls them out, only to then launch into the "eeeuuurrgggh primary chat UGH gently caress off" tirade just maybe
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Sep 13, 2017 22:06
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Cerebral Bore posted:As I said, if the president is that popular the challenge won't be serious, because it'll fail immediately. Though if past trends held true in such a case, we'd have 47% as our president instead.
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Sep 13, 2017 22:06
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Condiv posted:
Speaking of which, Sanders UHC bill is out today with a handful of Centrists on board Irrespective of the bill, that's a huge improvement in messaging there
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Sep 13, 2017 22:07
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Incredible that some centrists fell behind bernie's bill in spite of all the meanie leftists who kept criticizing them and trying to drag them to the left.
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Sep 13, 2017 22:08
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sit on my Facebook posted:The fact that this is the case maaaaay have something to do with the folks who consistently bitch about people being mean to Clinton acting like huge passive aggressive wangs until somebody finally calls them out, only to then launch into the "eeeuuurrgggh primary chat UGH gently caress off" tirade
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Sep 13, 2017 22:09
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Taerkar posted:Though if past trends held true in such a case, we'd have 47% as our president instead. The gently caress does this even mean?
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Sep 13, 2017 22:09
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Majorian posted:I agree, but that's why Sanders is proposing Medicare For All now. That's part of how you create a viable alternative. I'm fine with that and he's done good work getting possible Dem nominees for 2020 on board with it. But in the cold dead heart of political strategists, he already fought a centrist as a single payer supporter and she won.
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Sep 13, 2017 22:10
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Condiv posted:and now bernie is doing a lot for the dem party, while hillary goes on a bunch of talkshows and slags bernie Wait do you want her active in politics or not active in politics?
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Sep 13, 2017 22:11
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Jaxyon posted:I'm fine with that and he's done good work getting possible Dem nominees for 2020 on board with it. ok? but he won in the long term since he's actually popular with dems and p much everyone else, and his policies are being adopted by democrats
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Sep 13, 2017 22:12
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Jaxyon posted:Wait do you want her active in politics or not active in politics? i'd have preferred she just retired instead of blaming people who campaigned for her for her loss
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Sep 13, 2017 22:12
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Jaxyon posted:I'm fine with that and he's done good work getting possible Dem nominees for 2020 on board with it. I actually take his loss as a win. He showed up late and unprepared as an issues candidate with no national recognition. He pulled 40% and you talk about it like it was a fair fight, tantamount to s referendum? That's a pretty bizarre turn of events
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Sep 13, 2017 22:12
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Jaxyon posted:I'm fine with that and he's done good work getting possible Dem nominees for 2020 on board with it. Yeah, but those strategists probably need to go anyway, at this point. I mean, IMO it's hard to argue that anyone should take Robby Mook or Mark Penn seriously, regardless of what direction you think the Dems should take going forward. Clinton's campaign is hardly the only one that was good at winning primaries but bad at winning the general election, in our political history.
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Sep 13, 2017 22:13
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Jaxyon posted:Wait do you want her active in politics or not active in politics? active in politics would be nice active in "no really you guys it's all the voters and bernie's fault I lost" is... singularly unfortunate, let's put it that way.
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Sep 13, 2017 22:13
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Jaxyon posted:Wait do you want her active in politics or not active in politics? Much like posting, she should be productive and an assistance to the greater good rather than acting for her own self indulgence. Or don't post.
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Sep 13, 2017 22:14
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Jaxyon posted:If you want to complain about centrists you have to start getting people to note vote for centrists and then offer them a viable alternative more than once every 4 years. This smug "well why don't leftists just run" line of attack is specially disingenuous because it completely ignores the decades old history of centrist dems collaborating with republicans to neuter, or outright suppress, any kind of labor/leftist movement in the US. Obama himfuckingself just admitted that he didn't push for single payer because he didn't want the private insurance industry to take a hit. Bernie single-handedly revived popular leftism in this country and he did it in the last 2 years. Leftism has already caused a massive shift in Dem policy regarding healthcare. Work is getting done, and it can continue being done while we criticize centrists.
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Sep 13, 2017 22:17
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axeil posted:-Joins the Party for the sole purpose of running for POTUS - yes - trying to institute an even better healthcare policy than obama is not making GBS threads on his legacy. obama's legacy has both good and bad in it, bernie criticizes the bad parts while praising the good ones. it's a matter of policy not personal enmity, which is where the disconnect between centrists and leftists seems to be a lot of the time. the left's criticism of centrist policy isn't intended to assassinate anybody's character but to point out roads toward a more ambitious democratic party that will attract votes by helping people with the issues in their lives! - after hillary's bare-knuckle brawl to the buzzer with obama the 2016 primary was rainbows and unicorns. bernie campaigned for hillary quite actively, because, sensibly, he believed she was better than trump. because he's not an idiot. - i don't even remember this well enough to comment but as i said he actively campaigned for her, well enough that only around 10% of his voters defected to trump (for comparison, hillary voters in 2008 defected to mccain 20+% and 10% is pretty low historically) - mixed feelings on this myself since it gives people looking for reasons to dislike bernie a reason, but is party loyalty really your core concern in tyool 2017? - being honest that you can't strongly endorse someone based on their stated positions and history is not some kind of sin
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Sep 13, 2017 22:17
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Majorian posted:Yeah, but those strategists probably need to go anyway, at this point. I mean, IMO it's hard to argue that anyone should take Robby Mook or Mark Penn seriously, regardless of what direction you think the Dems should take going forward. Clinton's campaign is hardly the only one that was good at winning primaries but bad at winning the general election, in our political history. Yes they do, but they're there. Until the left makes significant progress in lower offices they'll continue to be there. Accretionist posted:I actually take his loss as a win. His loss *was* progress and a pretty big win for him, I don't disagree. I'm saying that people still vote for centrists pretty regularly and they tend to win elections for the party so from the political standpoint, they haven't failed. Condiv posted:ok? but he won in the long term since he's actually popular with dems and p much everyone else, and his policies are being adopted by democrats Single payer is, I don't know that a lot of the other stuff is. I'm not giving him the credit for minimum wage increases there's way, way more grassroots work that deserves the credit.
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Sep 13, 2017 22:21
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Jaxyon posted:Yes they do, but they're there. If strategists who are so clearly incompetent keep getting hired, don't you think that's kind of a damning indictment of Democratic leadership? quote:Single payer is, I don't know that a lot of the other stuff is. I'm not giving him the credit for minimum wage increases there's way, way more grassroots work that deserves the credit. That's fair, and I think Sanders would be the first to admit it. I don't think the left's alignment with Sanders is quite as personal as a lot of centrists assume. We like him a lot, and like that he's actually pushing for stuff, but we'd be just as fine with Warren or Brown or any of them, if they pushed for progressive ends as hard as Sanders does.
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Sep 13, 2017 22:23
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Scent of Worf posted:This smug "well why don't leftists just run" line of attack is specially disingenuous because it completely ignores the decades old history of centrist dems collaborating with republicans to neuter, or outright suppress, any kind of labor/leftist movement in the US. Obama himfuckingself just admitted that he didn't push for single payer because he didn't want the private insurance industry to take a hit. Bernie single-handedly revived popular leftism in this country and he did it in the last 2 years. Leftism has already caused a massive shift in Dem policy regarding healthcare. Work is getting done, and it can continue being done while we criticize centrists. Leftists are running, I'm more making fun of how harsh posters are on centrists when there's literal white supremacists in the white house. I'm a socialist, but the constant and unrelenting amount of whining at Hillary is dumb but I see way, way more energy making GBS threads on her than actually talking productively.
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Sep 13, 2017 22:23
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Majorian posted:If strategists who are so clearly incompetent keep getting hired, don't you think that's kind of a damning indictment of Democratic leadership? Of course it is. What's your point?
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Sep 13, 2017 22:24
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Jaxyon posted:Single payer is, I don't know that a lot of the other stuff is. I'm not giving him the credit for minimum wage increases there's way, way more grassroots work that deserves the credit. single payer is a massive step forward and i'm glad for it as for fight for 15, he's definitely way more in line with those grass roots orgs than the centrists who were cheering macron and his election. loving shitstain macron is trying to tear labor protections to shreds and pouting it's not making him popular in any case, i'm very glad for the work bernie is doing, and i hope he keeps working hard despite his age. he's a great guy 
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Sep 13, 2017 22:25
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Jaxyon posted:Yes they do, but they're there. You don't have to give Bernie credit for FF15, you do have to give it to the leftists that made it happen tho  It's certainly not liberals out there fighting for higher min wage.
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Sep 13, 2017 22:25
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hillary clinton should do whatever makes her happy and has a right to do a retrospective on the election, just as every other central figure has had that right in elections past imho
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Sep 13, 2017 22:26
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