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Surprising no one, the New Zealand shooter had KiwiFarms links. https://twitter.com/gryphoenix1/status/1108483200823767048
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Mar 22, 2019 06:52
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KiteAuraan posted:Surprising no one, the New Zealand shooter had KiwiFarms links. New Zealand, a small shithole of a country, is still magnitudes larger with more political and economic power than a shitbrick doxx farm.
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Mar 22, 2019 07:27
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please, hell timeline, please allow this tragedy to take down kiwifarms and the *chans, you owe us a bone
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Mar 22, 2019 07:53
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where is 8chan hosted anyway
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Mar 22, 2019 10:34
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think about whipping up one of those curse-of-assad memes but instead of assad it's lowtax and instead of other world leaders it's other websites
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Mar 22, 2019 10:56
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https://twitter.com/stungusbungus/status/1107836049030406145 https://twitter.com/stungusbungus/status/1107838382963490816 https://twitter.com/stungusbungus/status/1107839716462718977
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Mar 22, 2019 12:00
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Zeroisanumber posted:Telling the NZ police to go gently caress themselves in the clearest way possible is an invitation for the FBI to land on them with both feet. How exactly?
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Mar 22, 2019 13:25
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upon hearing of the massacre his piece "trump's caravan hysteria lead to this" (about tree of life) immediately popped into my head.
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Mar 22, 2019 13:36
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to the people in this thread that predicted this in 2016, did you think it would happen so quick
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Mar 22, 2019 13:52
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Reclines Obesily posted:to the people in this thread that predicted this in 2016, did you think it would happen so quick idk if i predicted it per se but it makes sense. all of the meme magic dumbasses and alt-right grifters didn't realize or didn't care that trump wasn't actually their guy, he's just an effete mincing socialite rear end in a top hat with no real value structure or strongly held ideology other than 'more money for me, gently caress you' with a larger than socially acceptable dash of good ol' fashioned american racism mixed in. so what happens when a bunch of highly impressionistic people who got themselves amped up on race war fantasies start to realize that the game is rigged? either they deprogram and try to rehabilitate themselves (c.f. one alaska, baked) or they go full nihlist
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Mar 22, 2019 14:00
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https://twitter.com/GelekB/status/1108912190264934400?s=19
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Mar 22, 2019 14:22
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Jose posted:a svelte reporter with a Louis Vuitton backpack on her shot back at us and told us this was her job. that she needed to hear “both sides.” Destroy all loving liberals
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Mar 22, 2019 14:37
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Reclines Obesily posted:to the people in this thread that predicted this in 2016, did you think it would happen so quick lets see what the summer brings tbh, its been a brutal winter in most of the country so street level stuff has been out for the most part. patriot prayer went thru a compaction cycle and lost tiny but im worried about what the ones who are left will do this summer given that theyve been given free reign to set up snipers nests before by the police and now their numbers will be down and theyll feel cornered
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Mar 22, 2019 14:44
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its surprising to me that trump is capable of doing something that pisses any of his own supporters off but i guess the pepe guys were always different
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Mar 22, 2019 14:46
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Farm Frenzy posted:its surprising to me that trump is capable of doing something that pisses any of his own supporters off but i guess the pepe guys were always different just remember all the fanfiction they wrote about glorious life under trump years ago. some of them still write it but its alternate reality stuff like qanon
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Mar 22, 2019 14:55
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Wheeee posted:next time some weaksauce bitchmade liberal starts telling you all life is precious, rub their face in a picture of notch I'm not sure what the conclusion to this argument is All the people not X or on the side of X can be killed because notch is garbage? Also, I'm not sure if this is what's happening, but I think many people are following the NZ PM's suggestion of not naming the mosque shooting terrorist, which is cheering to me
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Mar 22, 2019 15:02
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Reclines Obesily posted:to the people in this thread that predicted this in 2016, did you think it would happen so quick I'm not inclined to write the fash-lite off just yet. The 2020 election cycle is coming up and Campaign Trump has always been good at turning up the temperature.
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Mar 22, 2019 15:03
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Mr Interweb posted:Might be of interest to some: This is really good. It’s a complex fight with many fronts, but I’m glad to see some evidence for how youtube videos can deradicalize. Here’s a gross chaser that should surprise nobody: 
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Mar 22, 2019 15:10
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Yinlock posted:the best captain america moment is when he yelled at a bunch of nationalists that "a flag is a piece of cloth, a country is a line on a map, the only thing that matters is the people and you guys fuckin suck" Immediately post 9/11 Skrulls tried to start a race war and almost succeeded and Captain America beat their asses and then scolded the entire country on television for being racist shitheads
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Mar 22, 2019 15:18
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The key nugget in it being where he says "Don't just tell alt-right people they're racist and insult them, all that does is harden them up and drive them further right; instead, effort at them like Contrapoints" ... it kinda goes against a lot of what we've said here, which is that you can't reason people out of bigotry and deplatforming is the highest ROI tactic against fascists. This guy is intelligent and introspective enough that he had the self-awareness to pull himself back from the brink in the nick of time, mostly because he never quite lost his self-identity and his desire for personal betterment. I guess my question is, is his experience closer to being an outlier or the norm among alt-right types?
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Mar 22, 2019 15:22
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A lot of it probably depends upon whether more people like him start showing up. The Canadian “free speech” club that Contrapoints visited last year has had some members leave and post publicly about how she helped them understand what it was to be trans. But the club itself has gone full fash (or close to it) even as its membership dropped away.
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Mar 22, 2019 15:30
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Data Graham posted:The key nugget in it being where he says "Don't just tell alt-right people they're racist and insult them, all that does is harden them up and drive them further right; instead, effort at them like Contrapoints" ... it kinda goes against a lot of what we've said here, which is that you can't reason people out of bigotry and deplatforming is the highest ROI tactic against fascists. This guy is intelligent and introspective enough that he had the self-awareness to pull himself back from the brink in the nick of time, mostly because he never quite lost his self-identity and his desire for personal betterment. I guess my question is, is his experience closer to being an outlier or the norm among alt-right types? My thought is that the challenge in deradicalization is sifting the guys like him, who were just kinda along for the ride and ended up as a frog getting boiled in fascism, and who really exist as ballast for a movement, from the people who do and intend real harm, and who steer the movement and profit from it. I've always been an advocate of understanding for the former, but the latter absolutely need to be punched and made afraid. But I also feel as if you're going to err, you need to err on the side of punching, because the dangerous ones thrive by exploiting tolerance.
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Mar 22, 2019 15:37
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Data Graham posted:The key nugget in it being where he says "Don't just tell alt-right people they're racist and insult them, all that does is harden them up and drive them further right; instead, effort at them like Contrapoints" I think what happened was he saw himself as Lauren Southren and how skillfully Destiny dismantled her viewpoints. He called it terrifying which is the tell for me. This was doubt/uncertainty sparked to what would lead him down the path of introspection and looking for a better "truth". This kind of reminds me of an old article on cracked. "I Was A Hardcore Conservative: What Changed My Mind posted:When someone I disagree with blows apart the argument of some random stranger on my side, it's not me they're responding to, and it's not my reputation on the line. I don't have to worry about hurt feelings or embarrassment or the demolishing of an argument I worked hard on. Someone else takes that hit and I get to devote more of my brain to the actual point being made. If I'm slightly less racist or abrasive than the guy arguing my side, I can even console myself that I wouldn't have been yelled at like he was because "I'm not like him, I'm one of the reasonable ones." The other factor I'm watching for is what I call "who is the real rear end in a top hat?" If the guy on my side is being so rude even I'm put off, and the godless liberal refuting him is being super polite and patient, it makes me rethink the good and evil narrative. Sure, I may just move to, "These are very nice people, but just mistaken," but I'll be more receptive to listening to nice, mistaken people in the future, which will give them a bigger opening to further change my mind.
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Mar 22, 2019 16:21
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:This is really good. It’s a complex fight with many fronts, but I’m glad to see some evidence for how youtube videos can deradicalize. Here’s a gross chaser that should surprise nobody: You are two seven year olds standing one on top of the other because you LOOK like two seven year olds standing one on top of the other!
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Mar 22, 2019 16:31
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being nice to reactionaries sometimes wins one over, but at the expense of empowering the true believers there will always be new rubes ready to be recruited
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Mar 22, 2019 16:39
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Data Graham posted:The key nugget in it being where he says "Don't just tell alt-right people they're racist and insult them, all that does is harden them up and drive them further right; instead, effort at them like Contrapoints" ... it kinda goes against a lot of what we've said here, which is that you can't reason people out of bigotry and deplatforming is the highest ROI tactic against fascists. This guy is intelligent and introspective enough that he had the self-awareness to pull himself back from the brink in the nick of time, mostly because he never quite lost his self-identity and his desire for personal betterment. I guess my question is, is his experience closer to being an outlier or the norm among alt-right types? deplatforming has a high ROI because it stops them from messaging effectively and leaves sane voices in their wake. I’d presume that the majority of alt-right types are pretty soft in their support, and only persist precisely because they’ve got a plurality of people that constantly channel “look how persecuted you are!” poo poo into their veins via YouTube etc.
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Mar 22, 2019 16:40
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its good that there are people like contrapoints and destiny out there but that doesnt mean that the average person will achieve anything trying to talk nazis down. especially online
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Mar 22, 2019 16:46
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:This is really good. It’s a complex fight with many fronts, but I’m glad to see some evidence for how youtube videos can deradicalize. Here’s a gross chaser that should surprise nobody: I love the "you are a man because you look like a man" title, where they accidentally realize how gender expression works
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Mar 22, 2019 16:58
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honestly i dont trust anyone who was convinced by a youtube video or a single lecture not to bounce to the right again the second a black person is rude to them but as long as he stays out of those circles he's probably fine
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Mar 22, 2019 17:02
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Data Graham posted:The key nugget in it being where he says "Don't just tell alt-right people they're racist and insult them, all that does is harden them up and drive them further right; instead, effort at them like Contrapoints" ... it kinda goes against a lot of what we've said here, which is that you can't reason people out of bigotry and deplatforming is the highest ROI tactic against fascists. This guy is intelligent and introspective enough that he had the self-awareness to pull himself back from the brink in the nick of time, mostly because he never quite lost his self-identity and his desire for personal betterment. I guess my question is, is his experience closer to being an outlier or the norm among alt-right types? as someone whose family is this guy, my will to continue to argue is gone. and frankly he’s far more receptive than anyone in my family ever would fathom. they “don’t like to talk about politics” (read:stop correcting me when I say stupid poo poo I just want to say it and not have to argue) and their brains would melt watching Contrapoints because of who the message is coming from. I’ve tried even using Beau of the Fifth Column because he at least dismantles a lot of the stupidest day to day arguments really well. They won’t even listen to him disagree with their views even though he’s an ex-military country boy. Tucker Carlson is so smart and he just shows people very clearly and logically why they’re wrong. And Sean Hannity just says stuff CNN is too afraid to talk about. All poo poo I’ve heard. None of my family is going to radicalize. They’re just the permanent conservative religious right wing ballast that pushes us right as hard as possible. So yes, while not being an rear end in a top hat is in a vacuum the preferred method, it’s the unfortunate reality that there are plenty of people who will continue to believe what they believe no matter what tactic you take. The only option in front of me is to attack the ways they feed this poo poo to everyone. Destroy the pipeline.
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Mar 22, 2019 17:05
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Ugato posted:as someone whose family is this guy, my will to continue to argue is gone. and frankly he’s far more receptive than anyone in my family ever would fathom. they “don’t like to talk about politics” (read:stop correcting me when I say stupid poo poo I just want to say it and not have to argue) and their brains would melt watching Contrapoints because of who the message is coming from. I’ve tried even using Beau of the Fifth Column because he at least dismantles a lot of the stupidest day to day arguments really well. They won’t even listen to him disagree with their views even though he’s an ex-military country boy. Tucker Carlson is so smart and he just shows people very clearly and logically why they’re wrong. And Sean Hannity just says stuff CNN is too afraid to talk about. All poo poo I’ve heard. Yup. it’s primarily about what you consume. you can’t read nothing but freerepublic and watch nothing but fox and stay liberal/left. conversely, if you cut those things out, and only watched or heard news from liberal or leftist sources, you’d eventually land in that space. our brains are pretty much like the rest of our bodies, what we consume makes us the person we are, and logic reason or anything else take the backseat. If you want to deradicalize someone, pay them a 100 bet that they can’t go three months reading only liberal/leftist news sources and twitter accounts. if they’re still right wing after that, they cheated.
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Mar 22, 2019 17:09
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huh usually those youtube recs will include Bill Burr’s classic “Why you should be able to hit a woman”
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Mar 22, 2019 17:12
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Seems like Destiny and Contrapoints definitely influenced that guy, but he made that particular video right now because he had an emotional response to the shooter explicitly stripping the irony from the memes he used to enjoy.
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Mar 22, 2019 17:17
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Al! posted:honestly i dont trust anyone who was convinced by a youtube video or a single lecture not to bounce to the right again the second a black person is rude to them but as long as he stays out of those circles he's probably fine Yeah, the fact that he was basically radicalized by monologues and idiots pontificating on youtube is disturbing but I think it's more a indicator of how badly our education system is preparing kids. Our country has gutted any kind of real education in critical thinking, analyzing data, and understanding ideology. Kids are basically just tossed out into the middle of the ocean and are expected to navigate a capitalist horrorshow that uses pernicious psychological tricks to sell them all sorts of unhealthy poo poo. He seems like a decent, intelligent young man and the fact that even someone like that can be sucked into this death cult is sad. I don't know if I agree with everything he's said about not insulting alt-righters or w/e but all these peddlers of bigotry and cruelty need to be de-platformed yesterday.
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Mar 22, 2019 17:18
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Dick Valentine posted:Yeah, the fact that he was basically radicalized by monologues and idiots pontificating on youtube is disturbing but I think it's more a indicator of how badly our education system is preparing kids. Our country has gutted any kind of real education in critical thinking, analyzing data, and understanding ideology. Kids are basically just tossed out into the middle of the ocean and are expected to navigate a capitalist horrorshow that uses pernicious psychological tricks to sell them all sorts of unhealthy poo poo. He seems like a decent, intelligent young man and the fact that even someone like that can be sucked into this death cult is sad. I don't know if I agree with everything he's said about not insulting alt-righters or w/e but all these peddlers of bigotry and cruelty need to be de-platformed yesterday. Speaking now as someone who works in education and pays close attention to how people talk about education in Canada, the US, and beyond, this is by design and a direct consequence of general attitudes towards the role that education is supposed to be playing in life and society. If the role of education is ~to prepare people for the real world~, i.e. to deal with the responsibilities and challenges of living in a capitalist society, i.e. to sell their labour and consume, and thus to the exclusion of arts and the social sciences, this is the inevitable outcome.
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Mar 22, 2019 17:28
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Data Graham posted:The key nugget in it being where he says "Don't just tell alt-right people they're racist and insult them, all that does is harden them up and drive them further right; instead, effort at them like Contrapoints" ... it kinda goes against a lot of what we've said here, which is that you can't reason people out of bigotry and deplatforming is the highest ROI tactic against fascists. This guy is intelligent and introspective enough that he had the self-awareness to pull himself back from the brink in the nick of time, mostly because he never quite lost his self-identity and his desire for personal betterment. I guess my question is, is his experience closer to being an outlier or the norm among alt-right types? Outlier. He's also got no clear idea of why he believes what he does, so all it took was one video to really get him doubting. The reason you can't convince people who have limited their media consumption to Fox News is because the phrases, images, scenes, etc of that media has become the language, images, and feelings they think in. There are methods to change our own mode of thinking (eg, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy to break anxiety loops) but those take persistent effort over time. Once someone has 20 years of Tucker Carlson, Bill O'Reilly, and Sean Hannity altering their thoughts on top of growing up in an already hierarchical culture they're basically lost. You aren't just trying to convince them, you are trying to change the basic way they think about the world, the language they think in, the images they see in their head, and the feelings they have as they live everyday life. If you could remove them from Fox News you'd have a shot after a few months. Humans are, above all, not rational in our beliefs. We don't choose what we believe.
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Mar 22, 2019 17:32
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Deplatforming vs engagement or education vs punching nazis; if you're making that kind of comparison then you're approaching the issue the wrong way. Figuring out how to win a war doesn't involve throwing a tank, a rifle and a submarine into an arena and waiting to see which one is most effective. It's a full spectrum fight; do everything within your power to do that harms the other side. Asking yourself how you can make the biggest difference is fine of course. Most of us goons, myself included, are not Contrapoints and couldn't convince a dog to eat breakfast. We need many, many more Contrapoints but if you're not her, don't know how to be her, and are exhausted and infuriated by these morons then stick to deplatforming and dogpiling because that still helps.
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Mar 22, 2019 17:52
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I wish I could explain to leftists who aren't in the know just how dangerous the eco-fascism poo poo is. When I first started talking about it some people either thought it was funny or that "nazis picking up trash from the woods doesn't seem so bad". Edit: The alt-right in its "rally phase" saw their events as social playgrounds for them where they could be as violent as they wanted to their enemies seemingly without consequence. A chaotic world brought about by climate change is the ultimate and inescapable version of that.
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Mar 22, 2019 17:57
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https://twitter.com/socialistdogmom/status/1109137027797344256 https://twitter.com/AndyBCampbell/status/1108750508586618880
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Mar 22, 2019 18:00
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God I hope this kills the chans.
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Mar 22, 2019 18:04
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