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ZearothK posted:Yeah, rebels don't benefit from any technology or invention in V2, so once you have enough of them you can essentially kill infinity dissidents with any professional army. Yeah this is why being unable to elect communists is essentially saying No Communists unless we deliberately get ourselves completely destroyed in a war.
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Aug 10, 2018 17:27
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Rodyle posted:Yeah this is why being unable to elect communists is essentially saying No Communists unless we deliberately get ourselves completely destroyed in a war.
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Aug 10, 2018 18:42
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Rodyle posted:Yeah this is why being unable to elect communists is essentially saying No Communists unless we deliberately get ourselves completely destroyed in a war. Pretty sure the Byz LP just let the whole communist uprising go out of control, deliberately. Roleplaying is fun!
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Aug 10, 2018 20:00
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We can always arrange for things to pop off in HOI4, although I think somebody mentioned that some kind of civil war in Iberia at that time might be a bit implausible.
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Aug 10, 2018 20:17
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RestRoomLiterature- posted:I’ve reported all of you to the SGA. The Student Government Association, shortened colloquially to "the SGA", is what my campus' student government calls themselves so it's always fun when I come to this thread and forget that it means the secret police instead of the class senator or whatever.
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Aug 10, 2018 20:29
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The SGA will protect us from the accursed Almovarids and their French puppets. The Sultan Protects.
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Aug 10, 2018 20:46
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Red John posted:The SGA will protect us from the accursed Almovarids and their French puppets. What if ... What if the Almoravids are been the French puppets? What if they've been the French puppets all along? *puts on glasses and starts scribbling and drawing lines and circles on a chalkboard* *a lot of the scribbles look vaguely phallic* What could it mean?
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Aug 10, 2018 21:13
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Red John posted:The SGA will protect us from the accursed Almovarids and their French puppets. Alright, roleplaying is cute and all, but warhammer references is a bridge too far
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Aug 10, 2018 21:18
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The South German Alliance has no right to spy on andalusian citizens.
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Aug 10, 2018 21:33
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Rodyle posted:Yeah this is why being unable to elect communists is essentially saying No Communists unless we deliberately get ourselves completely destroyed in a war. It'd be literally impossible to narratively justify a country with Landed-Only Suffrage and a powerful monarch having its high nobility select a Communist faction to lead the country.
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Aug 10, 2018 21:54
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It was a confusing ballot, okay?
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Aug 10, 2018 22:01
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It's honestly absurd that we're in the 1880's and have yet to pass one single reform of any type.
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Aug 10, 2018 22:13
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Patter Song posted:It'd be literally impossible to narratively justify a country with Landed-Only Suffrage and a powerful monarch having its high nobility select a Communist faction to lead the country. I was thinking more like "maybe if we have a big communist uprising Hashim should just let them win because the game is seriously flawed in making late game rebellions completely nonthreatening even if you have to kill 25% of your adult male population" Crazycryodude posted:It's honestly absurd that we're in the 1880's and have yet to pass one single reform of any type. I'm not sure why our upper house really loving doesn't want to pass any reforms but then I've never intentionally put myself in a situation where I had to rely so hard on the "conservatives being afraid of rebels" mechanic. We need a Bismarck 
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Aug 10, 2018 22:13
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Tbh I'm hoping that if the rebel type matches the ruling faction we can just capitulate on purpose because it makes zero sense for the Socialists to crush socialist uprisings or the Imperialists to crush Jacobins, etc. Or at least have some custom events where the ruling faction parleys the thousands screaming in the streets into forcing the Majlis to pass some reforms if their factions match, because losing a rebellion on purpose is a bit much. We are desperately behind on reforms and will basically never get anywhere good through electoralism so our only hope to affect meaningful social change is to have rebels enforce their demands.
Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Aug 10, 2018 |
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Aug 10, 2018 22:15
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Actually, its completely historical for Socialists to turn on other Socialists and Liberals to turn on other Liberals.
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Aug 10, 2018 22:17
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“all power to the majis, the thread rules the country!” *country is insanely reactionary place ruled by an oligarchy that refuses any reforms* “oh wow, who could have seen this coming?”
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Aug 10, 2018 22:18
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Zikan posted:“all power to the majis, the thread rules the country!” *country is insanely reactionary place ruled by an oligarchy that refuses any reforms* “oh wow, who could have seen this coming?” Working as designed, no regrets 
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Aug 10, 2018 22:20
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Zikan posted:“all power to the majis, the thread rules the country!” *country is insanely reactionary place ruled by an oligarchy that refuses any reforms* “oh wow, who could have seen this coming?” Yeah but we also got Iberia back 
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Aug 10, 2018 22:25
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RabidWeasel posted:I'm not sure why our upper house really loving doesn't want to pass any reforms but then I've never intentionally put myself in a situation where I had to rely so hard on the "conservatives being afraid of rebels" mechanic. We need a Bismarck We just had a Bismarck, and we killed him
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Aug 10, 2018 22:31
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RabidWeasel posted:I'm not sure why our upper house really loving doesn't want to pass any reforms but then I've never intentionally put myself in a situation where I had to rely so hard on the "conservatives being afraid of rebels" mechanic. We need a Bismarck We had a Bismarck, and he just died. The Imperialists are the only ones out of the three ruling parties that we have had thus far that could have pass any reforms according to the narrative, and apparently, they have decided that it’s more important to build up a navy and conquer a chunk of India than to make any concessions to the poor. In hindsight, it was probably not the best idea to vote in three decades of conservatives/reactionaries at the beginning of the game, but out of the three options that we had during those sessions, I didn’t want us to priorize building boats when we were missing research or military techs.
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Aug 10, 2018 22:34
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RabidWeasel posted:I'm not sure why our upper house really loving doesn't want to pass any reforms but then I've never intentionally put myself in a situation where I had to rely so hard on the "conservatives being afraid of rebels" mechanic. We need a Bismarck Who do you think the Iron Vizier was supposed to represent? Honestly I'm starting to be willing to vote for the Royalists, if only so we can get rid of these bleedin' Majils already!
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Aug 10, 2018 22:41
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Maybe if we're lucky, the flames of this disaster will forge a Steel Vizier who can bring the reactionary fools to heel, or whatever. I don't know how blacksmithing works, I'm more about waging horrifically one-sided wars and liberating the Portugese.
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Aug 10, 2018 22:57
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Snipee posted:We had a Bismarck, and he just died. The Imperialists are the only ones out of the three ruling parties that we have had thus far that could have pass any reforms according to the narrative, and apparently, they have decided that it’s more important to build up a navy and conquer a chunk of India than to make any concessions to the poor. I don't think we're allowed to pass reforms because the upper house doesn't support them due to being too conservative and reactionary. The usual way to get around this is to have lots of angry pops which then makes conservatives support reforms. But for some reason this doesn't seem to be working, we've had plenty of rebellions but presumably too many of our pops are totally happy with the way things are and don't care about us having no reforms. Our early choices essentially boiled down to: become some kind of anarcho-capitalist hellhole where 90% of the population is illiterate and nobody knows what a rifle is (also all the factories immediately burn down because L-F early game is economic suicide), become an actual 17th century absolutist monarchy where 99.9% of the population is illiterate, never research mil tech because we're scared of Royalists and then we get annexed, and what we did (which was spend 30 years getting enough industry / culture / military techs to be able to survive and then start actually doing things). I think we made the right choice but the downside is getting on the liberalism train really late. Also you don't get to be Bismarck if you do a dumb thing like get assassinated, jeez
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Aug 10, 2018 22:57
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Sorry its time to go full Socialism now folks before we're passed up by our slightly more liberal neighbors
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Aug 10, 2018 23:27
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Every time we've made a change our colonies broke off or our country split into pieces. No thanks on your "reforms".
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Aug 10, 2018 23:49
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To be honest I think a big issue was the 10-year parliamentary terms. It meant any commitment to liberals early on was inflicting ten years of laissez-faire on the economy and ten years of not researching whatever techs are important (I haven't ever played Vic2). It also meant that even one term of royalists was ten years of reactionaries getting stronger. I think five-year terms would have meant Al-Andalus could respond a little more quickly to changing winds and would have meant it could be a little less disastrous to elect one of the further right- or left-wing parties for one term, as well as letting the country spread tech research around a little more given the absolute nature of certain parties only researching certain techs and completely ignoring the other ones.
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Aug 11, 2018 00:23
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Snipee posted:We had a Bismarck, and he just died. The Imperialists are the only ones out of the three ruling parties that we have had thus far that could have pass any reforms according to the narrative, and apparently, they have decided that it’s more important to build up a navy and conquer a chunk of India than to make any concessions to the poor.
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Aug 11, 2018 00:24
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RabidWeasel posted:I don't think we're allowed to pass reforms because the upper house doesn't support them due to being too conservative and reactionary. The usual way to get around this is to have lots of angry pops which then makes conservatives support reforms. But for some reason this doesn't seem to be working, we've had plenty of rebellions but presumably too many of our pops are totally happy with the way things are and don't care about us having no reforms. I have only played EU4, so you could be completely right here. quote:Our early choices essentially boiled down to: become some kind of anarcho-capitalist hellhole where 90% of the population is illiterate and nobody knows what a rifle is (also all the factories immediately burn down because L-F early game is economic suicide), become an actual 17th century absolutist monarchy where 99.9% of the population is illiterate, never research mil tech because we're scared of Royalists and then we get annexed, and what we did (which was spend 30 years getting enough industry / culture / military techs to be able to survive and then start actually doing things). I think we made the right choice but the downside is getting on the liberalism train really late. If we had gone Royalist our second term and reunified Iberia earlier, we could have gone Imperialist on our third term and implemented the necessary reforms earlier. Even if going Royalist our second term wouldn't have completely reunified Iberia, we likely would have made more progress towards that goal than we did under the Moderates. It's hard to say for certain. I suppose this depends heavily on rather or not the Royalists would have declared war on Morocco before France started that hellwar by declaring the birth of the Dual Monarchy. Talas posted:Excuse me fellow Majil, I think you are forgetting that boats are loving awesome You're what's wrong with this country.
Snipee fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Aug 11, 2018 |
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Aug 11, 2018 00:38
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We can't pass reforms because the upper house is too conservative. The only way to get around that is to get more Liberals in there or piss off the pops enough so conservatives support reforms. Imho, we made the best of what we had, and narratively, it makes sense. We were screwed in the war with Morocco, so we turned to the Royalists and reformed the army. We needed a better navy, so we turned to the Imperialists. I do agree the parliamentary terms should be shorter, but that's up to Hashim. 
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Aug 11, 2018 00:48
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Hashim, add a new political reform, "parliamentary terms". Options are Never, Every 10 years, Every 5 and Everyday.
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Aug 11, 2018 01:09
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Crazycryodude posted:The Student Government Association, shortened colloquially to "the SGA", is what my campus' student government calls themselves so it's always fun when I come to this thread and forget that it means the secret police instead of the class senator or whatever. Pretty sure I know where you go to school. (Go Minutemen. Also let me know if I should remove this for privacy's sake.)
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Aug 11, 2018 01:14
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eat the rich until the upper house is empty
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Aug 11, 2018 01:17
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habeasdorkus posted:Pretty sure I know where you go to school. (Go Minutemen. Also let me know if I should remove this for privacy's sake.) Nah you're good and also wrong anyways, I guess SGA is at least semi-common
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Aug 11, 2018 01:21
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ChaseSP posted:Sorry its time to go full Socialism now folks before we're passed up by our slightly more liberal neighbors Is anyone other than Ibriz and Japan really that liberal? It seems like the old world is pretty absolutist with the exception of us and Russia and maybe the SGU. Crazycryodude posted:Nah you're good and also wrong anyways, I guess SGA is at least semi-common I feel vaguely disappointed. You'd have made a fine addition to the socialist alumni of my alma mater.
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Aug 11, 2018 02:28
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As I said, now for Al Andalus to be great we need to fully incorporate Italy forcefully into Al Andalus, doesn't matter if we'll fight a brutal war, we can't lose. We couldn't not win and be humiliated or be disarmed at all.....
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Aug 11, 2018 02:30
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habeasdorkus posted:Is anyone other than Ibriz and Japan really that liberal? It seems like the old world is pretty absolutist with the exception of us and Russia and maybe the SGU. I think the list of republics are limited to Poland, Ibriz, and Japan. Most of Europe has begrudgingly accepted a few democratic reforms, but the old order still reigns supreme.
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Aug 11, 2018 03:20
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I'm betting whatever the WWI equivalent is in this timeline is going to be an extremely massive shakeup, more so than real life. If EVERYONE is an old guard, nobody will at the end. I think. Basically what I'm saying is by the time Hearts of Iron rolls around we are in for HELL WAR II, Stalinists vs Nazis with 1 democracy caught in the middle.
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Aug 11, 2018 03:45
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If people wanted the country to reform, maybe they shouldn't have ably led it to be the #2 power in the world, victor of every war its participated in this century, reclaiming massive amounts of territory with a booming economy and the world's second-highest prestige rating? Who needs democracy or economic egalitarianism when everything seems to be working fine? A militaristic oligarchy with press censorship, no unions, and harassed parties with unlimited work hours, no health care, no pensions, no public schools, and no unemployment dole seems to be working out just fine. Why fix what isn't broke?
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Aug 11, 2018 03:52
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Accelerationism once again proved to be the only legitimate method of political action, brb joining the Royalists Also we have the highest prestige as of last time I checked, not second-highest 
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Aug 11, 2018 03:54
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Crazycryodude posted:Accelerationism once again proved to be the only legitimate method of political action, brb joining the Royalists Touche. I am corrected. Anyway, I am personally 100% fine with riding out the 20th century as an oligarchic state where only the top 2-3% of society gets to vote and life is a Dickensian nightmare with unsafe factories, unlimited work hours, and no pensions or unemployment benefits. This game is called Victoria, let's go maximum Victorian.
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Aug 11, 2018 03:57
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