Aviation Megathread 10: I'm dumb as shit

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Aviation Megathread 10: I'm dumb as shit

hannibal: Jul 27, 2001; [img-planes]

Sagebrush posted:

Can you actually just enlist in the military and be sure you're going to become a pilot? It was my understanding that it's a fairly competitive process, even if you're not trying to be some hot poo poo fighter pilot. Certainly not everyone who joins the air force gets to fly.

In all four services, officers are pilots (naval aviators in the Navy/USMC). In the Army there are warrant officers who fly helicopters, I'm not sure if it's that way in the USMC too. (The Air Force doesn't have warrant officers)

Officers have a college degree path - service academy, ROTC, or just getting a degree and then going to OTS/OCS. I'm not sure what the path is for Army warrants (I guess they are probably enlisted first? they're typically folks who have been in a while). But in any case, you're not going to be flying anything after straight up enlisting.

I guess Army enlisted folks fly their battlefield UAVs, and probably Marines too, but the big Air Force UAVs are flown by officers.

# ? Aug 12, 2021 00:32

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 11:59

skooma512: Feb 8, 2012; You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

IIRC aren't USAF pilots also required to have a Top Secret clearance? I've read accounts of the Gulf War and they mentioned they have to have those clearances since they necessarily have to know parts of the war plan they aren't even personally carrying out. Getting one of those can be a task and they are (supposed) to be quite thorough.

# ? Aug 12, 2021 00:39

Cojawfee: May 31, 2006; I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

skooma512 posted:

IIRC aren't USAF pilots also required to have a Top Secret clearance? I've read accounts of the Gulf War and they mentioned they have to have those clearances since they necessarily have to know parts of the war plan they aren't even personally carrying out. Getting one of those can be a task and they are (supposed) to be quite thorough.

It's only difficult if you have a lot of foreign contacts, have committed a lot of crimes or something. I got my TS/SCI in a few months.

# ? Aug 12, 2021 00:51

Kraftwerk: Aug 13, 2011; i do not have 10,000 bircoins, please stop asking

skooma512 posted:

IIRC aren't USAF pilots also required to have a Top Secret clearance? I've read accounts of the Gulf War and they mentioned they have to have those clearances since they necessarily have to know parts of the war plan they aren't even personally carrying out. Getting one of those can be a task and they are (supposed) to be quite thorough.

I thought these clearances were also required because you're exposed to parts of an airplane that are still military secrets to the outside world. For example in WW2 the Norden bombsight was a top secret classified piece of equipment. Of course in reality I imagine that it's difficult to keep such secrets.

Cojawfee posted:

There are a few paths. You can go straight to the academy and hope you get a pilot spot. You can go to college on your own dime and then go to officer training school and try to get a pilot spot. Or you can enlist and then try to get into the program where you immediately get promoted to staff sgt can just go to college and join ROTC, and then hope you get a pilot spot. Or you can use tuition assistance to get a degree, and then write your own letter of recommendation and convince your commander to sign it and go to OTS and hope you get a pilot spot. But do NOT enlist if your recruiter tries to tell you it's guaranteed you can eventually get into OTS, because it isn't.

hannibal posted:

In all four services, officers are pilots (naval aviators in the Navy/USMC). In the Army there are warrant officers who fly helicopters, I'm not sure if it's that way in the USMC too. (The Air Force doesn't have warrant officers)

Officers have a college degree path - service academy, ROTC, or just getting a degree and then going to OTS/OCS. I'm not sure what the path is for Army warrants (I guess they are probably enlisted first? they're typically folks who have been in a while). But in any case, you're not going to be flying anything after straight up enlisting.

Getting into an academy is apparently really hard on its own isn't it? I have a relative in Virginia who wanted to become a pilot and explored all those options starting with being a Navy Pilot. Annapolis is a prestige school akin to trying to get into Ivy league, it's really hard since you need to be good at so many different things (particularly sciences and other stuff). The other issue is your state decides how many recommendation slots are available for your senator/ house rep for a given academy. VA is a Navy state so lots of admiral's sons and other types will be prioritized over you for admission. Meanwhile if you live in Colorado you probably won't be able to get into the Air Force academy. Then when you're finally in say the Navy Academy they'll make drat sure as many people fail out of the pilot path as possible so they can be drafted into nuclear and spend their career smelling feet all day in a Los Angeles class submarine.

The only branch of military aviation that seems reasonable to get into is the Warrant Officer path in the Army. They're desperately short of helicopter pilots and came up with a street to seat program where they'll take a high school graduate with good ASVAB scores, solid letters of recommendation from important members of their community (or an active member of the armed forces in good standing) and railroad them directly into pilot training after they finish basic training. The problem with this is you can wash out and just become a regular 11B or a cook. I heard Fort Rucker can be especially rough on the recruits so this happens more often than usual but not as badly as anyone who enlisted 18X-ray. Again in this case you most likely will become a helicopter pilot although there's a few coveted fixed wing slots where you get to fly whatever the military equivalent of a King Air or Citation is. I suspect that basically makes you the chauffer of army VIPs and is quite prestigious. My relative is sweettalking his recruiter into getting him to drop a packet for the army helicopter path. Short of becoming a USAF pilot I think this is probably one of the best jobs in the armed forces.

If I wasn't a Canadian who needed glasses I very likely would've gone the ROTC route into the USAF and try to compete for a pilot slot on the C-130s or C-17s.

Anyway I've done some research on this (don't ask me why) and the USAF is dealing with a pilot shortage because their people are ditching it for the airlines who are offering more lucrative pay. This generally means you wont have an easier time getting a pilot slot but they do need them so they'll let you try for it if you meet their expectations. It's very different from when Vietnam era pilots got all the nice jobs with the majors and shut out an entire generation from flying in the 1960s. Pre-covid air travel demand was so high that they poached military pilots just to keep things going because the civilian pipeline was obviously expensive and hard to finish due to poor return on investment for low hours pilots.

Kraftwerk fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Aug 12, 2021

# ? Aug 12, 2021 01:59

hannibal: Jul 27, 2001; [img-planes]

I can't speak to a lot of this personally (I was a dirty OTS graduate and not a pilot) but from what I've observed it's fairly difficult, and then getting a pilot slot on top of that is even more difficult (as related by others). Plus, once you start the path down becoming an officer, nothing is guaranteed and you could either 1) not get a pilot slot, 2) get a pilot slot and then wash out of training because you can't handle it or 3) get a pilot slot and then get injured or something and wash out. You have to really want to be in the military because they will reassign you to some other job with no fucks given. I knew at least two people in my first assignment who had reclassed after leaving pilot training.

During that same assignment we had a 2nd Lt come to our squadron who had left pilot training because of some medical issue and was waiting for his medical board to determine if he could keep going or not. The weird thing about this was that I was in Germany at the time which is not where you'd think they'd send people waiting on a board result to hang out... I guess he had taken a new assignment while his medical board processed in case it didn't go through. He did end up going back.

As for the pilot shortage, the Air Force, and I'm sure the other services too, has boom and bust cycles. When the economy is good and commercial pilots are in demand, it's hard to keep pilots in the military past their service requirement. On the other hand, sometimes the Air Force decides it has too many people and starts to offer incentives to leave early (even to pilots) or just doesn't promote folks past a certain point. (up or out)

As for the clearances, in addition to the planes, at least in the Air Force (and probably other services too) pilots will have command assignments, and also assignments where they'll work on staffs at HQs and such, where they will need a TS clearance in order to do their job because they're working in an operational or planning role.

# ? Aug 12, 2021 02:44

Desi: Jul 5, 2007; This.
Changes.
EVERYTHING.

Animal posted:

You are the shiniest success story when it comes to this subject.

Most definitely. I just wanted to inject some positivity given he's getting enough negativity out in the real world.

# ? Aug 12, 2021 03:01

Kraftwerk: Aug 13, 2011; i do not have 10,000 bircoins, please stop asking

hannibal posted:

As for the clearances, in addition to the planes, at least in the Air Force (and probably other services too) pilots will have command assignments, and also assignments where they'll work on staffs at HQs and such, where they will need a TS clearance in order to do their job because they're working in an operational or planning role.

Right, I forgot about that. The US military seems to work their officers to the bone. I quickly realized the officer rank you get when you fly isn't just to justify the salary (and the fact that you're in charge of millions of dollars worth of aircraft) but also because of what you just said. You're gonna be doing a ton of other bullshit and flying a military aircraft costs an obscene amount of money so that's often the thing you do the least. This is with the knowledge that US AF pilots get the most hours out of all air forces in the world. It's part of why they're so good but also a consequence of US military spending and air superiority doctrines. Most of the military wants talented officers first and subject matter experts second. I think even the USAF requires you to appear before the board and get approved before you're commissioned. So they ask you lots of questions to determine your level of responsibility, leadership skills, fit and to ensure you aren't a fuckup. None of them necessarily want to hear about how badly you wanna be a pilot or what you know about airplanes. I hear the same applies to the Army Warrant Officer path, you have to prove that you can do what a WO or CWO can do in non flying circumstances even if your main job is to fly. Unlike a fully fledged O1 or O2 I hear WO1s have a very narrow range of responsibility and don't get worked as hard as Os.

TL;DR: Military aviation pathways are far less guaranteed to put you in a cockpit than civilian ones. The standards are much stricter and you'll likely be doing a lot of non flying related tasks that you need to feel comfortable with in a military environment with military level quality of life. It's not for everyone. Going down this path as far as I can tell requires a mindset of "army first, airplanes second"

Take everything I say with a grain of salt, I learned all this second hand from veterans and my relative who is active in the recruitment process.

Kraftwerk fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Aug 12, 2021

# ? Aug 12, 2021 03:03

MrYenko: Jun 18, 2012; #2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Kraftwerk posted:

Right, I forgot about that. The US military seems to work their officers to the bone. I quickly realized the officer rank you get when you fly isn't just to justify the salary (and the fact that you're in charge of millions of dollars worth of aircraft) but also because of what you just said. You're gonna be doing a ton of other bullshit and flying a military aircraft costs an obscene amount of money so that's often the thing you do the least. This is with the knowledge that US AF pilots get the most hours out of all air forces in the world. It's part of why they're so good but also a consequence of US military spending and air superiority doctrines. Most of the military wants talented officers first and subject matter experts second. I think even the USAF requires you to appear before the board and get approved before you're commissioned. So they ask you lots of questions to determine your level of responsibility, leadership skills, fit and to ensure you aren't a fuckup. None of them necessarily want to hear about how badly you wanna be a pilot or what you know about airplanes. I hear the same applies to the Army Warrant Officer path, you have to prove that you can do what a WO or CWO can do in non flying circumstances even if your main job is to fly. Unlike a fully fledged O1 or O2 I hear WO1s have a very narrow range of responsibility and don't get worked as hard as Os.

TL;DR: Military aviation pathways are far less guaranteed to put you in a cockpit than civilian ones. The standards are much stricter and you'll likely be doing a lot of non flying related tasks that you need to feel comfortable with in a military environment with military level quality of life. It's not for everyone. Going down this path as far as I can tell requires a mindset of "army first, airplanes second"

Take everything I say with a grain of salt, I learned all this second hand from veterans and my relative who is active in the recruitment process.

A friend of the family went to OCS, commissioned, �flew Black Hawks for a couple years,� and separated at her first opportunity because she almost never actually got to fly. Officer first, pilot second.

# ? Aug 12, 2021 03:16

Bob A Feet: Aug 10, 2005; Dear diary, I got another erection today at work. SO embarrassing, but kinda hot. The CO asked me to fix up his dress uniform. I had stayed late at work to move his badges 1/8" to the left and pointed it out this morning. 1SG spanked me while the CO watched, once they caught it. Tomorrow I get to start all over again...

TS clearances are job dependent. Some have them, some don�t. Most jobs that work around radars or some weapon system have them: so any fighter, reconnaissance, or patrol plane will have them.

Most pilots I know did OCS after graduating college (aka, no prior military experience) but had secured a contract to be a pilot after that. That means a chance at flight school: if you are medically DQ or you flunk out, the AF and USMC will typically redesignate you. The Navy will let you walk out of your contract. I went to the naval academy and there are literally hundreds of pilot slots, navy and USMC, per class.

The kicker is that upon finishing you are typically under contract 6-8 years. That being said, you are paid pretty well for it. Top notch health insurance, housing stipend, guaranteed yearly raises and most services being a pilot guarantees promotion. It�s not for everyone but it�s set me up pretty well.

Bob A Feet fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Aug 12, 2021

# ? Aug 12, 2021 03:19

hannibal: Jul 27, 2001; [img-planes]

Kraftwerk posted:

Most of the military wants talented officers first and subject matter experts second. I think even the USAF requires you to appear before the board and get approved before you're commissioned. So they ask you lots of questions to determine your level of responsibility, leadership skills, fit and to ensure you aren't a fuckup. None of them necessarily want to hear about how badly you wanna be a pilot or what you know about airplanes.

Yes, this is basically true; they'll teach you what you need to know in training. They're looking for potential and a solid base to work with.

AF OTS is a board that convenes and selects packages; vs enlisting where if you are breathing and can put two sentences together they'll send you off (in the worst of times, anyway).

# ? Aug 12, 2021 04:30

e.pilot: Nov 20, 2011; sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

There�s also the military option of enlisting because you grew up at the bottom end of lower middle class and have no money for college and no idea what to do after high school and then floundering around for a few years living out a mediocre military career in IT then getting tired of it and punching out and using the GI Bill to go to college and learning to fly like I did.

Now I just play video games and ride bikes a lot, and very occasionally fly 767s, it�s a p good life.

# ? Aug 12, 2021 16:43

Animal: Apr 8, 2003

e.pilot posted:

There�s also the military option of enlisting because you grew up at the bottom end of lower middle class and have no money for college and no idea what to do after high school and then floundering around for a few years living out a mediocre military career in IT then getting tired of it and punching out and using the GI Bill to go to college and learning to fly like I did.

Now I just play video games and ride bikes a lot, and very occasionally fly 767s, it�s a p good life.

Hey 1.) I�m ONT based now 2.) Me and our favorite conspiracy theorist CA we�ve talked about before and a few other guys are playing DCS World on our days off, you should get into that rabbit hole.

# ? Aug 12, 2021 17:21

Rolo: Nov 16, 2005; Hmm, what have we here?

Don�t we have a discord of aviation nerds? I keep wanting to pop in, I think it would be so fun to pour some rum and play ATC for some flight sim goons.

# ? Aug 12, 2021 22:10

yellowD: Mar 7, 2007

Are lovely new ppls allowed too?

# ? Aug 12, 2021 22:20

Sagebrush: Feb 26, 2012; ERM... Actually I have stellar scores on the surveys, and every year students tell me that my classes are the best ones they’ve ever taken.

Rolo posted:

Don�t we have a discord of aviation nerds? I keep wanting to pop in, I think it would be so fun to pour some rum and play ATC for some flight sim goons.

There is the discord for this thread

https://discord.gg/mwfu8jyj

and the discord for AirGoons

https://discord.gg/UAjh4WjG

both of which have some overlap, but the first is this crowd (obviously) and the second is more simulator nerds.

I will definitely participate in some FS2020 role play stuff if you do it.

# ? Aug 12, 2021 23:36

e.pilot: Nov 20, 2011; sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

Animal posted:

Hey 1.) I�m ONT based now 2.) Me and our favorite conspiracy theorist CA we�ve talked about before and a few other guys are playing DCS World on our days off, you should get into that rabbit hole.

Oh man in for DCS shenanigans, what planes do I need?

I�m JFK now but I�m thinking about putting a bid back in for ONT, the destinations are great but I haven�t been flying much because I keep getting stuck on OE flights it�s kinda meh.

# ? Aug 12, 2021 23:41

Animal: Apr 8, 2003

e.pilot posted:

Oh man in for DCS shenanigans, what planes do I need?

I�m JFK now but I�m thinking about putting a bid back in for ONT, the destinations are great but I haven�t been flying much because I keep getting stuck on OE flights it�s kinda meh.

Just learn the F-16 or F-18. I mostly do F-16 cause it�s the easiest and hell if I�m gonn be studying too many airplane systems without getting paid for it

# ? Aug 12, 2021 23:47

Jimmy Carter: Nov 3, 2005; THIS MOTHERDUCKER
FLIES IN STYLE

Welp, I am now an official Sport Pilot.

Yes, I am extremely aware of its limitations, but my alternatives are either roll the dice on getting an official eval for ADHD or to get Congress to pass a law saying you don�t need to have had a medical ever to get BasicMed.

Not sure which is the easier one in this case.

# ? Aug 13, 2021 07:31

Sagebrush: Feb 26, 2012; ERM... Actually I have stellar scores on the surveys, and every year students tell me that my classes are the best ones they’ve ever taken.

A pilot is a pilot, IMO. Congratulations!

Except those lousy remote pilots

What kind of plane did you fly in training? One of the other flight schools around here has these little Evektor SportStar planes for their LSA program and they look like a hoot. I want to try one someday.

# ? Aug 13, 2021 07:40

Jimmy Carter: Nov 3, 2005; THIS MOTHERDUCKER
FLIES IN STYLE

Sagebrush posted:

A pilot is a pilot, IMO. Congratulations!

Except those lousy remote pilots

What kind of plane did you fly in training? One of the other flight schools around here has these little Evektor SportStar planes for their LSA program and they look like a hoot. I want to try one someday.

You are almost certainly speaking of my flight school and the exact airframe I fly.

They�re kinda pokey for any serious cross-country but otherwise are super responsive and honestly great for training. Stalls consist of yanking back on the stick and eventually noticing you�re at 30 knots indicated and the VSI is unhappy. You can throw out full flaps and do a slip throughout the entire white arc, which instructors warn you not to get in the habit of doing on the first day, because it is poor energy management and you�ll freak out other people in the pattern by looking like you�re dropping out of the sky.

A bonus is I get to be That Guy and explain to other people I�m not breaking the rules about hand-propping during my preflight, I�m just engaging in the Rotax Sacrament of making the oil tank like a toilet.

# ? Aug 13, 2021 08:16

i am kiss u now: Dec 26, 2005; College Slice

e.pilot posted:

Oh man in for DCS shenanigans, what planes do I need?

We do have a fair number of pilots/students in the Airgoons discord but if you�re interested in DCS, we usually do a more semi-serious, coordinated mission on our private server on saturdays at 20:00z (1pm PST) and then we try to do a casual Sunday event as well. Lately, it�s just been a coordinated group joining on public servers but there�s usually a vote. We also will do a lot of random weekday hangs. All you have to do is post in the airgoons discord that you�re looking to fly and people will usually join if there�s not already something happening.

Newcomers definitely welcome and we have a lot of people who will go through and show you the ropes for nearly any aircraft. If you want to participate in our planned missions, we only ask that you have all of that done a head of time as we don�t typically wait for one person.

Also, any of the more �modern� fighters are almost always included on saturdays (F-16, 18, 14, harrier). I�ll be gone until Sunday but PM me (Slip) in there if you have any questions.

# ? Aug 13, 2021 16:17

Animal: Apr 8, 2003

i am kiss u now posted:

We do have a fair number of pilots/students in the Airgoons discord but if you�re interested in DCS, we usually do a more semi-serious, coordinated mission on our private server on saturdays at 20:00z (1pm PST) and then we try to do a casual Sunday event as well. Lately, it�s just been a coordinated group joining on public servers but there�s usually a vote. We also will do a lot of random weekday hangs. All you have to do is post in the airgoons discord that you�re looking to fly and people will usually join if there�s not already something happening.

Newcomers definitely welcome and we have a lot of people who will go through and show you the ropes for nearly any aircraft. If you want to participate in our planned missions, we only ask that you have all of that done a head of time as we don�t typically wait for one person.

Also, any of the more �modern� fighters are almost always included on saturdays (F-16, 18, 14, harrier). I�ll be gone until Sunday but PM me (Slip) in there if you have any questions.

That�s awesome I�m gonna try to join when I have a weekend off at home and I don�t get dragged out to be social.

# ? Aug 13, 2021 16:18

Aaaaaaarrrrrggggg: Oct 4, 2004; ha, ha, ha, og me ekam

Sagebrush posted:

A pilot is a pilot, IMO. Congratulations!

Hell yeah, I've been telling my wife th...

Sagebrush posted:

Except those lousy remote pilots

# ? Aug 14, 2021 02:02

Rekinom: Jan 26, 2006; ~ shady midair gas hustler ~

~ good hair ~

~ colt 45 ~

luminalflux posted:

It�s way too true. I know far too many tech nerds from FAANGS who cashed out their stock and decided to take up flying for lols. They�re also the most insufferable people to be around

Living in Europe I would never care about a window seat since 99% of the time it�s overcast and you can�t see poo poo. Same with transatlantic flights.

Flying transcontinental though? Give me a window seat and an ATC feed (rip Channel 9) and I�ll watch deserts and canyons and farmlands the whole trip.

Channel 9 is still a thing on 757's. As long as I remember to flip the switch on my preflight. The thought of pax in the back listening to me talk on the radio assuming I actually know wtf I'm doing is funny though.

Cojawfee posted:

There are a few paths. You can go straight to the academy and hope you get a pilot spot. You can go to college on your own dime and then go to officer training school and try to get a pilot spot. Or you can enlist and then try to get into the program where you immediately get promoted to staff sgt can just go to college and join ROTC, and then hope you get a pilot spot. Or you can use tuition assistance to get a degree, and then write your own letter of recommendation and convince your commander to sign it and go to OTS and hope you get a pilot spot. But do NOT enlist if your recruiter tries to tell you it's guaranteed you can eventually get into OTS, because it isn't.

It was shockingly easy for me to get a pilot slot in ROTC, and I just like *kinda* wanted to be a pilot because they freely offered it up to me, but that was almost 20 years ago. I would also add the fact that you can apply and interview for a Air Reserve/Air National Guard unit and probably even pick up a full time status. I try to tell everyone that the military is best done part-time at a unit in a place you actually want to live, but nobody ever listens to me until it's too late and they're locked into a decade-long contract living in Minot, ND.

# ? Aug 18, 2021 21:22

Sagebrush: Feb 26, 2012; ERM... Actually I have stellar scores on the surveys, and every year students tell me that my classes are the best ones they’ve ever taken.

i must repost this from the discord

team green 4 lyfe

# ? Aug 19, 2021 18:55

a patagonian cavy: Jan 12, 2009; UUA CVG 230000 KZID /RM TODAY IS THE FIRST DAY OF THE BENGALS DYNASTY

the clamps

# ? Aug 19, 2021 19:18

e.pilot: Nov 20, 2011; sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

Sagebrush posted:

i must repost this from the discord

team green 4 lyfe

solid photoshop collab

# ? Aug 20, 2021 05:23

unpurposed: Apr 22, 2008; Fun Shoe

Sagebrush posted:

i must repost this from the discord

team green 4 lyfe

Clark Barf

# ? Aug 20, 2021 08:21

vessbot: Jun 17, 2005; I don't like you because you're dangerous

MrYenko posted:

We (NATCA) have a professional standards program for a reason, but it’s sorely underused. That type of thing is totally unacceptable, and I’ve made a few coworkers feel about three inches tall yelling at them for doing it to actual student pilots. It’s also a pretty solid indicator that the controller in question is poo poo at their job. If I can ever help any of you guys get in touch with a local ProfStands rep anywhere in the country, let me know. (I’m the rep for Miami Center.)

Oh boy, this snowballed quickly. All-ya’ll need to come have a beer with some of us when you come down to Miami for sim-time or something.

So the biggest offender is (as always) Miami approach. They basically took their ball and went home several times during development hell, and were just generally extremely adversarial during the entire (10+ year) process. The result is that Miami/Lauderdale and their satellites all have shiny new climb-via RNAV departures that are not procedurally deconflicted from literally anything. So during a busy departure push, instead of the departure controller saying “GOON42 radar contact” and then a couple minutes later “GOON42 contact Miami center 132.45,” Miami approach is still going to be vectoring and step climbing literally everyone like it’s the bad old days.

As part of Metroplex, we converted to a route-based departure gate assignment system instead of the (obsolete) departure-airport based system we had been using. IE previously, all aircraft departing MIA approach for Q77 or Q87 routing up the east coast would be assigned HEDLY for Miami terminal area and ARKES for Fort Lauderdale terminal area departures regardless of further routing or destination. Center would then do Miami’s job, pry everyone apart, get airplanes on the correct sides, and sequence the aircraft while they’re in the climb. On the 12th, aircraft filed Q77 will be assigned the new VACAY departure, which replaces HEDLY, and Q87 aircraft will be assigned AARPS, which replaces ARKES. This is in line with metroplex programs elsewhere in the country, all totally normal.

Fine. Good. Great, right?

Miami approach, a “level 12” up/down (same pay band as Kennedy Tower, NY TRACON, O’Hare, SOCAL approach, etc etc,) is not going to sequence those departures. (Not even a “we can’t do that,” they actually had the balls in negotiations to say to us “We’re not going to do that.”) We’re just going to be permanently stratified, with the Lauderdale traffic just getting stuffed under all Miami area departures. FXE-TEB in your Falcon 7X filed for FL450? Get hosed, you’re stuck under every Excel, Cirrus, and E145 leaving Miami/OpaLocka/Tamiami/Ocean Reef/etc. Hope you like 310. The DTA control area is seriously almost the entire northern half of Miami approach airspace. They’re just going to dump these airplanes out the gates with zero sequencing, Miami traffic climbing to 160, and Lauderdale traffic climbing to 130. In fact, we had to fight like hell to get 130, when they wanted to only climb them to 120, which would have meant in less than 18nm (and when not if) Miami forgets to ship them, they violate Palm Beach and we get dinged for it. That negotiation was in bad faith; Miami is still trying to get the entire program cancelled, and was trying to poison-pill us.

Note on this (public) draft doc the total lack of any procedural vertical separation until FEBAD? Note that altitude isn’t 130, but 120? That’s in center airspace. It procedurally doesn’t do a godamned thing. Miami took one look at metroplex and said “Nah bro, we’re gonna do what we’ve always done. Designing procedures looks hard.” And told everyone else (including every adjacent facility and especially the end-user) to get hosed.

They also (somefuckinghow I still don’t understand) will no longer be accepting IFR overflight traffic. Not a new overflight gate or procedure. A loving line in the LOA that says “Miami ARTCC will not route IFR overflight traffic into Weakstick Approach airspace.”

Neither will Palm Beach, who is going from SFC-100 to SFC-120. So there will now be a wall from north of Jupiter to Key Largo from the surface to at least twelve thousand feet (Miami owns to sixteen) between the islands and the entire contiguous US. FMY-MYNN in your 182? Get hosed, I have to route you nearly 100nm out of your way because these fuckhead approach controls cant be bothered to work an overflight. Hope you wanted to see Marathon or Melbourne on your way. As far as I’ve been able to find, this is unique among approach controls in the US.

Meanwhile, RSW approach has a 10% higher arrival delivery rate than PBI despite having only a single piece of concrete, and is working the PGD traffic (which is absolutely bonkers-exploding: Sun Country just announced they’re going in there in addition to Allegiant) with zero issues. but they got told “there’s no money in the metroplex budget for your facility, go home.” So I still have an RNAV arrival (SHFTY5) that doesn’t actually laterally clear the military airspace it was supposed to clear, because twenty years ago some rear end in a top hat hosed up and didn’t click the checkbox to make WRTRS a fly-over fix, so every Airbus on the planet cuts the corner and violates the Avon gunnery range. Overlay it on the VFR chart and peep that northwest corner of PLACID EAST. Fun times. We’ve ATSAPed it dozens of times, but it always gets to airspace and someone goes “oh, moving a fix (or just making it a fly-over) is a lot of work. Nah. Hope no one gets hit by a mortar shell or F-16.”

For chrissakes I have a brand-new RNAV procedure to PGD where the LOA procedure is to issue “cross ten miles north of LYFIE at one-three-thousand.” WHY IS THERE NOT A loving FIX THERE WHAT THE ACTUAL gently caress DID WE SPEND TEN YEARS AND UNTOLD TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ON WHO THE gently caress IS EVEN IN CHARGE OF THIS loving CATASTROPHE.

Bottom line, I’d rather put RSW’s janitorial staff on MIA D and L scope than work with the chucklefucks down there. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve gotten a 777 or MD11 behind a Citation with the throttles in the firewall that’s just barely doing 210, and the D scope controller acts surprised that we get angry about it. They wouldn’t know a good feed if it sat on their face and wiggled.

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.

Thinking back about this, I feel like it could be molded into a Hitler yelling caption video

# ? Aug 20, 2021 16:48

MrYenko: Jun 18, 2012; #2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

vessbot posted:

Thinking back about this, I feel like it could be molded into a Hitler yelling caption video

It really could be. Nothing pisses me off quite like others� incompetence that causes me additional workload.

# ? Aug 20, 2021 16:51

The Slaughter: Jan 28, 2002; cat scratch fever

Rickety Cricket posted:

Man I've been out of this thread for a while. Took a loooong leave of absence in 2020 (COVID offered leave). But back at it now.

I know we have some United folks in here (looking at you Slaughter). Just received the Leadership Inventory and am panicking. Can anyone talk me off the ledge and tell me it's gonna be okay

Dude, hope you got it, sorry, I just saw this. It's been a crazy busy summer over here, not "cancelling flights" level of short staffed, but certainly getting used and abused every reserve day levels.

# ? Aug 21, 2021 00:50

Rolo: Nov 16, 2005; Hmm, what have we here?

Can someone explain leadership inventory to the thread corporate idiot?

# ? Aug 21, 2021 00:54

The Slaughter: Jan 28, 2002; cat scratch fever

It's better known as the hogan. It's a personality test, I think about 75% get through it just anecdotally from the people I know who have gotten it.

Stuff like... "I like racing cars." . strong agree, agree, disagree, strong disagree, etc, for hundreds of questions.
They had a bunch of line check airmen take it, and it's "calibrated" to them, so although UPS uses the Hogan as well, you could answer exactly the same and get a yes from one place and a no from another. Pretty much at this level, it's assumed from your experience you can fly just fine, so personality and fit weigh in a lot heavier.

Edit:
Also: major airline hiring is generally quite stupid and riddled with flaws, for what it's worth. Bad people get through. Good people that shouldn't get stopped, get a no. And many good people get through just fine. It's inexplicable.

The Slaughter fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Aug 21, 2021

# ? Aug 21, 2021 01:12

Rolo: Nov 16, 2005; Hmm, what have we here?

Oh interesting, I took something similar for this job and didn�t feel like it went poorly but there was a math section and I think I got like 2 right. It was something like 20 questions in about 10 minutes and they were all world problems, like the bullshit ones.

�Gracie is 3 weeks older than Dan who is half as old as the oldest, etc� questions. Algebra is fine with me but not when reading the question leaves me with 15 seconds to do it.

Pretty sure the red flag would be passing it. I�m good at math, bombed the test and got the job.

# ? Aug 21, 2021 01:22

The Slaughter: Jan 28, 2002; cat scratch fever

Delta/FedEx one has math. UPS/UAL one does not, personality test only.

# ? Aug 21, 2021 01:44

skooma512: Feb 8, 2012; You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

Was watching Air Disasters and found a horrible crash funny.

Sukhoi was trying to sell their new jetliner in 2012 and did a demo flight in Indonesia. The pilot was demonstrating and touting the new Terrain Avoidance system to a company owner in riding in the cockpit, only to ignore the TAWS, assume it was broken, and shut off the legitimate warning and as a result, CFIT straight into a mountain.

# ? Aug 21, 2021 02:48

KodiakRS: Jul 11, 2012

What a bunch of idiots. Boeing or Airbus give their pilots a leadership inventory tests so they would never hire someone who would barrel roll a new plane over a crowd or fly a low pass into a forrest at an airshow.

# ? Aug 21, 2021 11:52

vessbot: Jun 17, 2005; I don't like you because you're dangerous

KodiakRS posted:

What a bunch of idiots. Boeing or Airbus give their pilots a leadership inventory tests so they would never hire someone who would barrel roll a new plane over a crowd or fly a low pass into a forrest at an airshow.

Small potatoes, airline management would cream their shorts at the prospect of eating the costs of a high profile crash every year, in exchange for every new hire sharing Tex Johnston's views on unions.

# ? Aug 21, 2021 15:33

Salami Surgeon: Jan 21, 2001; Don't close. Don't close.; Nap Ghost

Anyone have opinions on GA tires?

Someone asked me and I have no idea, so figured I'd turn to here. It's a 172. Don't know what brand is on it now. Was flown a couple times a week, will probably be a couple times a month now. Mostly VFR, almost exclusively tarmac. Mains are looking a little shabby. Aircraft Spruce has a few options for 6.00x6 4 ply. Goodyear is a brand I've heard of before. Any good way to choose?

# ? Aug 23, 2021 23:22

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 11:59

azflyboy: Nov 9, 2005

From what I remember when I worked at a flight school, the tire with the most tread depth new was usually a good idea for a trainer, since it means there's more rubber to wear down, which should translate into more landings/time before it needs replacing, and it provides more of a margin before a tire blows if someone locks a brake.

IIRC, Aviation Consumer did something about tires maybe 15 years ago, and I think their conclusion was that tread depth seemed to matter more than other factors for most people.

# ? Aug 24, 2021 06:19

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Aviation Megathread 10: I'm dumb as shit

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