north american bummerverse containment zone 1.3: Kissinger Mourning Zone

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > north american bummerverse containment zone 1.3: Kissinger Mourning Zone

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raminasi: Jan 25, 2005; a last drink with no ice

Fabricated posted:

For some reason I distinctly remembering Biden and the party in general condemning the trump tariffs.

yeah but these are biden tariffs. completely different.

# ? May 14, 2024 17:31

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# ? May 30, 2024 21:09

qirex: Feb 15, 2001

lobbyists who specialize in making ancient racists shake in their boots are sure earning their fees this year

# ? May 14, 2024 17:34

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; OFFICIAL #1 GNOME FAN

yummycheese posted:

teslas in china already look outdated junk compared to the stuff chinas domestic manufacturers are cranking out.

not updating their various models for almost a decade has certainly taken its toll.

yeah. they literally can't update their models because of musk's "innovative" manufacturing processes. idk why american consumers haven't caught on (probably because we're a nation of too-rich idiots) but tesla sales have been tanking in china for a while, forcing them to cut prices to the bone (iirc they barely make a ~2% margin compared to ~9% in the US)

so basically any sort of excise on teslas would be disastrous for them, and let's face it, they're basically the only american EV manufacturer with any real footprint there. plus it would really piss off elon, and that would be very funny

# ? May 14, 2024 17:38

Ruffian Price: Sep 17, 2016

Fabricated posted:

For some reason I distinctly remembering Biden and the party in general condemning the trump tariffs.

yeah remember when they condemned putting kids in cages

# ? May 14, 2024 17:43

The_Franz: Aug 8, 2003

Ruffian Price posted:

yeah remember when they condemned putting kids in cages

a problem the biden administration quickly solved by calling the cages "pods" instead

# ? May 14, 2024 17:48

Roosevelt: Jul 18, 2009; I'm looking for the man who shot my paw.

Fabricated posted:

I dunno, this fits with another widely circulated story where he slapped the poo poo out of Eric I think for not wearing a 3-piece suit to a baseball game.

that was also Junior lol

# ? May 14, 2024 17:51

Clark Nova: Jul 18, 2004

dioxazine posted:

https://twitter.com/JavierBlas/status/1790335378370539802

must be a coincidence that acting to secure america's vital economic interests looks exactly like a massive giveaway to fossil fuel companies

# ? May 14, 2024 17:52

Ruffian Price: Sep 17, 2016

We must secure the existence of the House of Saud and a future for Saudi children

# ? May 14, 2024 17:54

yummycheese: Mar 28, 2004

Over the pandemic, america quietly became the world�s number one oil and gas exporter. over taking Saudi Arabia and Russia in the process

Outside of investor relations with these companies. Ive never seen it mentioned in the media.

# ? May 14, 2024 17:58

post hole digger: Mar 21, 2011

well-read undead posted:

i, too, believe things said by michael cohen, especially verbatim speech recited from memory

i actually am willing to believe that donald trump would debase and belittle don jr at any opportunity, for literally any reason.

# ? May 14, 2024 18:00

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

so would I

# ? May 14, 2024 18:10

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; bone shaking.
soul baking.

reminder that when don jr was in college, trump went to go pick him up for a baseball game. junior was dressed in jeans and a jersey for the team they were supporting. trump slapped the gently caress out of him and told him to go put on a suit.

# ? May 14, 2024 18:17

PokeJoe: Aug 24, 2004; hail cgatan

post hole digger posted:

i actually am willing to believe that donald trump would debase and belittle don jr at any opportunity, for literally any reason.

hell, same

# ? May 14, 2024 18:17

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; bone shaking.
soul baking.

one of trump's biggest self fulfilling prophecy was donald trump junior. he was paranoid about naming him that. "what if he's a loser?" he pressed his wife at the time.

of course trump ensured that junior would be an embarrassment with how he was raised.

# ? May 14, 2024 18:18

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; bone shaking.
soul baking.

during trump's divorce with ivana, trump was trying to use junior as leverage. he was like, agree to this or i'm keeping junior. ivana stood her ground and trump relented within hours because he couldn't stand to be around him.

# ? May 14, 2024 18:19

well-read undead: Dec 13, 2022

post hole digger posted:

i actually am willing to believe that donald trump would debase and belittle don jr at any opportunity, for literally any reason.

that's the only believable part, but he'd probably just make fun of the way he looks or something

# ? May 14, 2024 18:20

PokeJoe: Aug 24, 2004; hail cgatan

Mr. Nice! posted:

during trump's divorce with ivana, trump was trying to use junior as leverage. he was like, agree to this or i'm keeping junior. ivana stood her ground and trump relented within hours because he couldn't stand to be around him.

the kid just has bad vibes

# ? May 14, 2024 18:25

graph: Nov 22, 2006; aaag peanuts

Ruffian Price posted:

yeah remember when they condemned putting kids in cages

yeah, then they put even more in

# ? May 14, 2024 18:49

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; OFFICIAL #1 GNOME FAN

yummycheese posted:

Over the pandemic, america quietly became the world�s number one oil and gas exporter. over taking Saudi Arabia and Russia in the process

Outside of investor relations with these companies. Ive never seen it mentioned in the media.

i saw it in the media a lot back when it happened, and still see it as a parenthetical or something similar occasionally

though idk if we still are (i don't really read news nearly as often as i did back then and most of what i referenced above was referring to that period specifically) then they might mention it from time to time, but idk. it already happened, so unless something changes there isn't much reason to report on it often

# ? May 14, 2024 19:00

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; OFFICIAL #1 GNOME FAN

well-read undead posted:

that's the only believable part, but he'd probably just make fun of the way he looks or something

well yeah, he did, he was mad that he looked ridiculous cosplaying manly hunter man lol

# ? May 14, 2024 19:04

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; OFFICIAL #1 GNOME FAN

surprise surprise, the economist thinks biden's tariffs are bad https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2024/05/14/biden-outdoes-trump-with-ultra-high-china-tariffs

quote:

Biden outdoes Trump with ultra-high China tariffs
The move, which hits electric vehicles, carries an environmental cost

Just over six years ago, when Donald Trump first announced tariffs on Chinese goods, it was as if a bomb had gone off. American stocks fell sharply at the prospect of a trade war, businesses warned of blowback and economists lined up to decry the move. Such is the protectionist mood in Washington now that Joe Biden�s announcement of new measures has been met with rather less panic�even though it concerns significantly higher tariffs.

On May 14th, following a policy review, the White House decided to raise tariffs on, among other things, Chinese semiconductors and solar cells from 25% to 50%, syringes and needles from 0% to 50% and lithium-ion batteries from 7.5% to 25%. It hit electric vehicles with the biggest increase of all, quadrupling the tariff rate on China-made electric vehicles (EVs) from 25% to 100%. Lael Brainard of the National Economic Council said the actions would create �a level playing-field in industries that are vital to our future�. Yet it is American consumers who will pay the price.

Relative to Mr Trump�s China tariffs, the new levies are both more targeted and more dramatic. Mr Trump�s tariffs in time sprawled to cover over $350bn-worth of imports from China, mostly at a 25% rate. Mr Biden�s tariffs cover about $18bn-worth of imports, though at far more prohibitive rates. The impact is thus not on current trade flows, but on future potential. For example, in Europe, where China-made cars (including Western brands) face a more modest tariff of 10%, they have taken nearly a quarter of the EV market. In America, by contrast, there are few Chinese-made EVs on the road today. Owing to the new ultra-high tariffs, it will surely stay that way.

Within America, the tariffs are aimed at protecting nascent industries rather than large, thriving ones. Under Mr Biden, the American government is spending hundreds of billions of dollars to build up domestic EV manufacturing, semiconductors, batteries and more. This has prompted a boom in factory construction, including in America�s rust belt, but it will be another few years before production lines really kick into gear. The aim is for the new tariffs to buy them time.

Unlike with Mr Trump�s initial salvo of tariffs, criticism from American business has been muted. Six years ago many still saw promise in the Chinese market. Such hopes have been beaten down by the fraying of relations between the two countries and the rising challenge from Chinese companies. True believers in free trade�especially with China�are now a vanishing breed in Washington, not to mention other global capitals. The European Commission is in the midst of an anti-subsidy investigation that could also lead to higher tariffs on Chinese EVs.

Higher tariffs on Chinese products will push up prices for American consumers. The immediate effect will be limited, because so much trade in tariff-hit categories has already shifted away from China. But domestic producers may also feel less of an incentive to develop cheap goods in the long term, knowing that they are shielded from foreign competition. The tariffs can also be seen as a lost opportunity for the environment. Lower prices for EVs, solar panels and batteries would have boosted their appeal to consumers, as is essential if America is to green its economy.

Mr Biden�s move also arguably displays more disregard for trade rules than Mr Trump�s tariffs. Mr Trump used a �section 301� investigation under American trade law to determine that China had hurt American commerce, notably through theft of intellectual property, and then hit it with tariffs as a remedy. Mr Biden�s tariff rises were grounded in a review of those original 301 levies. But the concern has shifted. Rather than begging, borrowing and stealing to catch up to America, China is now well ahead of it in the EV sector and capable of producing a vast number of cars at a much lower cost.

There is a case to be made that China achieved much of its advantage through its own unfair mix of protectionism and subsidies. Given this background, the traditional way to forestall a flood of Chinese imports would be to apply countervailing duties. �The Europeans are being a little more intellectually honest and doing that,� said Scott Lincicome of the Cato Institute, a libertarian think-tank. He added that Mr Biden�s new tariffs smack of political expediency, coming just months after Mr Trump had pledged to implement tariffs of 60% on all Chinese products.

The levies may also prove to be more harmful than helpful to America�s industrial ambitions. Domestic producers are likely to be more insulated from their fiercest foreign competitors than during past bouts of protectionism. In the 1980s, when it was Japanese cars that provoked angst, Japanese automakers agreed to restrain exports in order to stave off a trade war. That raised costs for American consumers, but Japanese firms ultimately got around the restrictions by investing in America.

Because of the current focus on security threats posed by China, its carmakers are not about to follow Japan�s lead. �Without that investment safety valve, how do you ensure that there still is sufficient competition within the American market? That�s the key question,� says Martin Chorzempa of the Peterson Institute for International Economics, a think-tank.

Behind a 100% tariff wall, American officials and corporate bosses will have less urgency to come up with an answer. ■

Beeftweeter fucked around with this message at 20:04 on May 14, 2024

# ? May 14, 2024 20:01

Roosevelt: Jul 18, 2009; I'm looking for the man who shot my paw.

Beeftweeter posted:

surprise surprise, the economist thinks biden's tariffs are bad https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2024/05/14/biden-outdoes-trump-with-ultra-high-china-tariffs

america first

# ? May 14, 2024 20:25

Truman Peyote: Oct 11, 2006

well-read undead posted:

that's the only believable part, but he'd probably just make fun of the way he looks or something

trump is a born bully. he would go for exactly whatever he thought would hurt most, which for a lot of people is their looks, but for doju is definitely his need to look like a big man

# ? May 14, 2024 20:33

FAT32 SHAMER: Aug 16, 2012

yummycheese posted:

Over the pandemic, america quietly became the world�s number one oil and gas exporter. over taking Saudi Arabia and Russia in the process

Outside of investor relations with these companies. Ive never seen it mentioned in the media.

that�s because Biden is all in on EVs as the future, op. can�t have conflicting storyline�s!!

# ? May 14, 2024 21:10

post hole digger: Mar 21, 2011

Beeftweeter posted:

surprise surprise, the economist thinks biden's tariffs are bad https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2024/05/14/biden-outdoes-trump-with-ultra-high-china-tariffs

they are bad op

# ? May 14, 2024 21:15

Beeftweeter: Jun 28, 2005; OFFICIAL #1 GNOME FAN

post hole digger posted:

they are bad op

yeah. if some moron from the cato institute thinks you hosed up, you done hosed up bad lol

# ? May 14, 2024 21:32

dioxazine: Oct 14, 2004

Beeftweeter posted:

yeah. if some moron from the cato institute thinks you hosed up, you done hosed up bad lol

likely the regime's attempt to preserve rust belt and union votes given recent polling, no?

that it takes precedent over all other considerations is probably has a bit of an ideological bent

# ? May 14, 2024 21:37

Eminent DNS: May 28, 2007

dioxazine posted:

likely the regime's attempt to preserve rust belt and union votes given recent polling, no?

that it takes precedent over all other considerations is probably has a bit of an ideological bent

In a tangential and misguided way, sure. But I'd bet the primary driver is American investors who want to be able to share in the profit gained by American companies in these industries that stand to make money from both less competition and assumed future subsidies (exactly what Yellen was just yellin' about being unfair for China to do, but that we gladly do here all the time, in agriculture for instance).

Cato, WSJ, the 20-somethings at the Economist are criticizing it from the perspective of the rest of the economy, consumers as well as other producers in the supply chain who depended on cheap Chinese PVs, etc and stand to lose from this.

So like, some US capitalists stand to gain a shitton from this move (ex. traditional auto manufacturers trying to break into EVs) and were leaning on their bought politicians, while most others stand to lose a bit.

# ? May 14, 2024 22:38

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

dioxazine posted:

likely the regime's attempt to preserve rust belt and union votes given recent polling, no?

Dems don't want to win this upcoming election, this is about giving capital want they want

The Dems want to go back to the golden era of 2016-2020, when they could raise vast amounts of money on Orange Man Bad messaging while having no expectations on them whatsoever to do anything.

# ? May 14, 2024 22:44

moonshine is......: Feb 21, 2007

dioxazine posted:

likely the regime's attempt to preserve rust belt and union votes given recent polling, no?

that it takes precedent over all other considerations is probably has a bit of an ideological bent

given the way that current events appear, it seems unlikely. dems don't make as much when they win. i'm also not really sure that either party cares about retaining anyones votes. our system continues to work exactly the same if 200k people vote, or 2 people vote.

# ? May 14, 2024 23:21

Trimson Grondag 3: Jul 1, 2007; Clapping Larry

all countries protect their domestic auto industries so I don�t think the US is particularly out of step with the rest of the world on this, but it does mean yall are going to be driving some absolutely dogshit cars for the next few decades.

# ? May 14, 2024 23:43

Not a Children: Oct 9, 2012; Don't need a holster if you never stop shooting.

Trimson Grondag 3 posted:

all countries protect their domestic auto industries so I don�t think the US is particularly out of step with the rest of the world on this, but it does mean yall are going to be driving some absolutely dogshit cars for the next few decades.

It's fine, all exports from China will just have a stopover in another port before they show up in Baltimore

# ? May 15, 2024 00:21

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

Trimson Grondag 3 posted:

all countries protect their domestic auto industries

*thinks extremely hard about Rover turning into rebadged Hondas over the course of eight years*

# ? May 15, 2024 00:27

Trimson Grondag 3: Jul 1, 2007; Clapping Larry

well yeah eventually they stick the neolib knife in and dismantle the entire sector like we did but until then they protect them.

# ? May 15, 2024 00:33

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

The American auto industry is actively harmful to American consumers at this point and protecting it isn�t helping average Americans much

# ? May 15, 2024 00:37

Ruffian Price: Sep 17, 2016

Not a Children posted:

It's fine, all exports from China will just have a stopover in another port before they show up in Baltimore

chuds will get carte blanche to shoot BYD owners for not being man enough

# ? May 15, 2024 00:48

Jon Pod Van Damm: Apr 6, 2009; THE POSSESSION OF WEALTH IS IN AND OF ITSELF A SIGN OF POOR VIRTUE. AS SUCH:
1 NEVER TRUST ANY RICH PERSON.
2 NEVER HIRE ANY RICH PERSON.
BY RULE 1, IT IS APPROPRIATE TO PRESUME THAT ALL DEGREES AND CREDENTIALS HELD BY A WEALTHY PERSON ARE FRAUDULENT. THIS JUSTIFIES RULE 2--RULE 1 NEEDS NO JUSTIFIC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1589j04paFs

# ? May 15, 2024 01:05

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

Jon Pod Van Damm posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1589j04paFs

If that�s the Mexican market commercial they are just as delusional as we are

# ? May 15, 2024 01:08

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

Jon Pod Van Damm posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1589j04paFs

they certainly have the terrible ads down

# ? May 15, 2024 01:10

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# ? May 30, 2024 21:09

Clark Nova: Jul 18, 2004

it�s very easy to imagine a certain type of guy going to mexico to buy the truck that joe biden doesn�t want you to have

# ? May 15, 2024 01:47

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > north american bummerverse containment zone 1.3: Kissinger Mourning Zone

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