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The End posted:It's hard to recommend any game that requires multiple expansions to be worth playing. Sight unseen, yes, but if you know someone who owns TM or is thinking about playing it I would say colonies is a requirement.
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Dec 22, 2018 01:26
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The End posted:Terraforming Mars is a lot like Root - great first impression, has enough complexity to entice gamers who are transitioning from casual to deeper into the hobby, but has some real gaps in the design/balance that more experienced gamers will discover and tire of quickly. TM has a huge amount of randomness, and drafting is only a bandaid over a gunshot. Root becomes a whiny whack the leader game because it's difficult to build up momentum through long term strategy. Yeah, but we're talking about rank #4, for a 2016 release, so it's not yet comparable a new release. Up until like, Kingdom Death Monster (#33), there's not a single "terrible" game there.
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Dec 22, 2018 01:27
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Terraforming Mars is a 4/10 without the drafting variant, an 8/10 with.
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Dec 22, 2018 01:27
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ketchup vs catsup posted:Terraforming Mars is a 4/10 without the drafting variant, an 8/10 with. Hell no. Adding an hour to the four player game is not a fair trade up. I heard prelude does an accelerated start, so I could see how a version of TM with drafting that is an hour shorter might be tolerable. But it'll be a cold day in hell before I'd give that game another chance.
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Dec 22, 2018 01:32
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TFM is very appealing to people who are exposed to it early and haven’t had other tableau builders like RFTG or the Chudyk games with which to compare. I’ve seen many, many sentiments from normies who want the game to last longer because it gives that tableau engine builder high. But what’s really frustrating is that RFTG has solved that problem that necessitates a draft a long time ago and that game is also much, much quicker.
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Dec 22, 2018 01:36
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Kiranamos posted:Yeah, but we're talking about rank #4, for a 2016 release, so it's not yet comparable a new release. Up until like, Kingdom Death Monster (#33), there's not a single "terrible" game there. The 7th Continent is at #14.
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Dec 22, 2018 02:18
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The End posted:BGG rankings are popularity, not qualitative. Yes but lacking other metrics, popularity is a way to recommend something to people, just by probability. "Many people like this. You are a member of the group called people. Thereby, you may like this." Of course this thread is full of goons, not people. For the record, I haven't played DoW or TFM because they sound awful and mediocre, respectively.
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Dec 22, 2018 02:38
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Jedit posted:The 7th Continent is at #14. I haven’t played it so I gave it a pass based on what I’ve heard. Have you?
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Dec 22, 2018 02:51
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Do the expansions have the insanely lazy artwork on the cards? Because that amused me more than any of the actual gameplay. And I was fine with the gameplay.
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Dec 22, 2018 03:18
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Three close friends have Terraforming Mars as their number 1 game. They prefer the non-draft rules. Send halp.
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Dec 22, 2018 04:00
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FWIW, every single week at least 4 people at my local meetup are happy to play Terraforming Mars for 3-4 hours. I still have never played it.
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Dec 22, 2018 04:07
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My local shop has Kemet, I've been after something serious at five players, is it a good one at that number? (i have so many 4-player games and every time games comes up it's 5) (Inis is also tempting)
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Dec 22, 2018 04:15
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xiw posted:My local shop has Kemet, I've been after something serious at five players, is it a good one at that number? Do it. Inis maxes at 4.
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Dec 22, 2018 04:19
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Kiranamos posted:I haven’t played it so I gave it a pass based on what I’ve heard. Have you? I have absolutely no idea how 7th Continent is in the top 1000, let alone at #14. I tried playing a scenario solo to get a feel for the game. Admittedly it was kinda interesting for the first area. There was some clever ideas in there. But pretty quickly it was evident that the game was entirely too epic. There is a mechanic that eating food gives you spent cards back. That initially sounds pretty good, let’s you be a little more free with the use of cards to make sure you pass your challenges. But when you discover that every time you come to a new area (about every 5-10 spaces) you need to find the hunting grounds, the game starts to bog down. I had the game spread out on a table in my basement, so I could leave it set up. I would play for 2-4 hours at night for something like 5 or 6 sessions before I eventually gave up. The last session, I just started auto passing challenges and looking at cards to try to get an idea of how much further I had to go. That’s when I stumbled across needing to go through an underground laberenth that had a quest item hidden in it. After flipping over at least a dozen cards in the dungeon, and seeing that I hadn’t uncovered what looked to be a quarter of it, I threw in the towel. Add to all that, is that there is a save mechanic that lets you pack everything back up, but save your gear and immediate location. So for the average player, on top of an epic play length, there is a setup and tear down that isn’t quite as bad as Gloomhaven, but it is close. I just had the realization is that it feels like a canned D&D game, but with basically 0 flexibility. The game is not linear, but there is really no option to think outside the box, or come at a problem from an angle in anything other than what the game designer intended. The expansion packs from the second Kickstarter have not been shipped yet, but once they get here, I fully intend to try to sell my copy off. I am pretty sure I am going to take a bath on the game, but I can’t see myself putting in the dozens of hours to get through a single scenario, much less the other 4 that come in the base game, or the other half a dozen expansion scenarios.
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Dec 22, 2018 05:34
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Chill la Chill posted:TFM is very appealing to people who are exposed to it early and haven’t had other tableau builders like RFTG or the Chudyk games with which to compare. I’ve seen many, many sentiments from normies who want the game to last longer because it gives that tableau engine builder high. But what’s really frustrating is that RFTG has solved that problem that necessitates a draft a long time ago and that game is also much, much quicker. I know an entire gaming group where the only game they’ve played more than TFM is RFTG. They draft TFM.
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Dec 22, 2018 06:18
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xiw posted:My local shop has Kemet, I've been after something serious at five players, is it a good one at that number? Kemet is good at every player count. One of its schticks is that the map is shaped to the player count. One board is the 2/4 player board, one is the 3/5 player board. When the lower amount is played, half of the board is out of play. So it's always 'balanced'. Everyone is always equidistant from everyone else and all of the temples. The only problem with Kemet is the huge frontloading of information. At game start, 48 tiles are laid out, with very few duplicates. All of them are unique powers that control in what ways you are specialized. It's a ton to take in, and there's only a single player aid in the box. I printed off a few from bgg and laminated them so everyone has their own copy. And as mentioned, Inis, while amazing, is only 4p. An upcoming expansion should bring it to 5, but that's still a few months away at least.
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Dec 22, 2018 06:19
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Mind Games in Melbourne is selling Warhammer Diskwars cores for $24 if anyone wanted to grab one or two before they vanish forever. Edit: the newer store between Lt Collins and Bourke Sts Sleekly fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Dec 22, 2018 |
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Dec 22, 2018 06:43
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xiw posted:My local shop has Kemet, I've been after something serious at five players, is it a good one at that number? Kemet is my favorite 5 player game. It opens up a bit with the black pyramid from the expansion and you should use the expansion changes to the turn order/win condition rules right from the start. But the base game should otherwise keep you happy for a long time.
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Dec 22, 2018 07:37
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The End posted:BGG rankings are popularity, not qualitative. There's no reason Dead of Winter should be in any Top 100 of anything ever. Top 100 Zombie Games Top 100 Games About Litter Top 100 Games in which your light-hearted zombie-fighting stunt dog character finds a newborn baby abandoned in a dumpster
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Dec 22, 2018 11:35
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CaptainRightful posted:Kemet is my favorite 5 player game. It opens up a bit with the black pyramid from the expansion and you should use the expansion changes to the turn order/win condition rules right from the start. But the base game should otherwise keep you happy for a long time. What are the differences in turn order/win condition?
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Dec 22, 2018 16:29
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AMooseDoesStuff posted:What are the differences in turn order/win condition? For turn order: A dawn phase is added where players bid as if they're doing a battle (Play one battle card, discard another, no troops used. Only battle strength value considered). They can use dawn tokens, which are earned when a player lose a battle, to increase their bid. For win condition: If the player has a 8 VP before he places an action token, then he wins if no one else has more VP. Otherwise the round continues. Also means if players are tied for the lead and have 8 or more VP then whoever goes first wins the game. Basically makes winning easier, but with the new turn order rules and the right move, somebody can still make an upset. Also, I'm about to give the new Seth expansion a shot with some friends. It looks like a huge mess in parts, but a fun mess if you like Kemet.
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Dec 22, 2018 17:38
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Do you guys know any easygoing two-player games for a very stressed couple? I've tried Patchwork and Jaipur and while it's funny to watch two successful lawyers argue about camels, I don't want to stress them more as it usually they take things too seriously.
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Dec 22, 2018 19:07
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Talas posted:Do you guys know any easygoing two-player games for a very stressed couple? I've tried Patchwork and Jaipur and while it's funny to watch two successful lawyers argue about camels, I don't want to stress them more as it usually they take things too seriously. Either of Phil Walker-Harding's recent tile laying games would fit the bill, I think, though Gingerbread House is probably going to be much easier to find than Barenpark. Reef's not as a good as those games IMO, but it's also fairly laid back.
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Dec 22, 2018 19:15
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pospysyl posted:Either of Phil Walker-Harding's recent tile laying games would fit the bill, I think, though Gingerbread House is probably going to be much easier to find than Barenpark. Reef's not as a good as those games IMO, but it's also fairly laid back.
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Dec 22, 2018 19:26
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The Nish posted:For turn order: One important thing to note is that Ta-Seti also gives players two extra battle cards. If you try using the Dawn phase without the extra cards you're going to cycle through them faster than intended.
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Dec 22, 2018 19:27
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Does the bid determine turn order? Not quite clear
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Dec 22, 2018 19:38
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Friend gifted me Dune for Christmas. First time playing it. Five players, everyone but the space nuns. As the Harkonnen I took three strongholds in the first two rounds, murdering a ton of leaders and swimming in spice but a last minute devastating counterattack left me running for the hills before I could win. For much of the game my remaining forces are fleeing through the mountains conducting guerilla warfare for no other reason but to try and assassinate leaders for money. We played until round 10 and saw no worm cards until the final round. A three-way alliance was formed with the Guild, Harkonnen, and Fremen with the Emperor and Atreides teaming up. They already had four strongholds to win and just needed to hold them. A three-way sounds unfair but between the three of us we had zero board presence. It was an alliance of desperation as the Guild's ability was enough to drop one Harkonnen warrior into a stronghold and accidentally blow it up by firing a lase gun into a shield which is... not something you do. It was a victory by default but hey, that's Dune baby. Dune hasn't aged gracefully and I'm definitely going to trick it out, but it represents the kind of freeform gaming style that few people develop these days without a ton of training wheels to prevent weird poo poo from happening but I'm in it for the weird poo poo.
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Dec 22, 2018 19:41
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StashAugustine posted:Does the bid determine turn order? Not quite clear yep. it adds some unwanted interruption to game flow but its worth it to make turn order more determinative since it's so crucial (especially with the updated win condition)
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Dec 22, 2018 20:30
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How’s the Harry Potter deckbuilder? Been a long time since I picked up a deckbuilder and looking for something not another dominion or ascension expac
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Dec 22, 2018 20:48
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Kashuno posted:How’s the Harry Potter deckbuilder? Been a long time since I picked up a deckbuilder and looking for something not another dominion or ascension expac admittedly only played it once but: it sucks. no trashing, market row with no mitigation (the combination of these two is you get stuck with a bunch of expensive poo poo no one can buy) and it's just not terribly interesting in general.
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Dec 22, 2018 20:56
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Ravendas posted:And as mentioned, Inis, while amazing, is only 4p. An upcoming expansion should bring it to 5, but that's still a few months away at least.
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Dec 22, 2018 21:55
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Inis and Cyclades are both pretty swift moving games that almost always come in under 90 mins if that helps.
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Dec 22, 2018 22:40
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StashAugustine posted:Does the bid determine turn order? Not quite clear Small clarification: it determines the order in which players get to choose their position in turn order. There are often very good reasons to choose to go last in the round. Even without the Dawn Phase, it's better to have each player choose their turn order in reverse order of VPs than to use the original rules, where the player with the least chooses everybody's position.
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Dec 22, 2018 22:44
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Redundant posted:Inis, Kemet and Cyclades are all games that I would love to play, but I'm not convinced my groups would be too happy about it. Longer games with direct conflict that has obvious and notable effects (Colt Express seems to get away with this because being shot is more of an inconvenience than crushing blow) tend to struggle to get traction. I have found some local meet ups though that I am hoping to start attending after Christmas so maybe that will be the time to make the investment and try some of them out. Kemet and Inis take the load off by making death a part of gameplay. In Kemet you’re rewarded for winning and you want to sacrifice your guys to avoid presenting a soft target. In Inis combat is a negotiation tactic because combat is a bloody 1:1 affair.
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Dec 22, 2018 22:57
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al-azad posted:Dune hasn't aged gracefully and I'm definitely going to trick it out, but it represents the kind of freeform gaming style that few people develop these days without a ton of training wheels to prevent weird poo poo from happening but I'm in it for the weird poo poo. I'm expecting to get a copy of Rex over the holidays and I'm eager to get my teeth into it. I'm not sure how much changed from the original Dune beyond the aesthetic.
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Dec 23, 2018 02:25
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Buck Wildman posted:I'm expecting to get a copy of Rex over the holidays and I'm eager to get my teeth into it. I'm not sure how much changed from the original Dune beyond the aesthetic. IMO except for the theme (it’s clear several of the factions and systems are doing things for Dune-y reasons ) Rex is significantly better, most notably because it plays much faster, is more streamlined and easier to explain, and is less random (especially the card effects). It also has betrayal cards which I think weren’t in Dune but make alliances/end game more interesting. I’ve only played Dune once though compared to a few times with Rex, so willing to be corrected. But the play time issue alone is a big deal for me, we got a game of Rex done in around 2 1/2 hours and it didn’t seem possible to have Dune play that quickly. Play time and simplicity of explanation/how long it takes people to grasp rules are increasingly bigger factors for me so it might be if you have a whole day Dune is the better pick. But I’m finding I have too many long games which just never get played, which kind of makes the question of how good they are to be pointless.
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Dec 23, 2018 07:37
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Cool, appreciate your thoughts. Streamlining is always good so long as the core mood and playstyle is reasonably retained, IMO.
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Dec 23, 2018 08:18
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IIRC, Rex straight up cuts the number of turns in half compared to Dune.
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Dec 23, 2018 08:38
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Blamestorm posted:IMO except for the theme (it’s clear several of the factions and systems are doing things for Dune-y reasons ) Rex is significantly better, most notably because it plays much faster, is more streamlined and easier to explain, and is less random (especially the card effects). It also has betrayal cards which I think weren’t in Dune but make alliances/end game more interesting. We played a five player game in about 2 hours plus 30 minutes for teaching. We did only play 10 rounds (I believe Rex does 8) which the Dune grognard who taught said is the universally accepted house rule. It felt like the perfect length of time as it was enough to go through the entire treachery deck. I don't know what Rex could streamline beyond the turns because the game felt pretty straightforward? Like the longest downtime was waiting for the Atreides player to take notes. The variant rules are something I'm interested in looking into. One player said he played with a group that did 2 spice blows at a time and he commented that our game was a lot faster and more strategic because people focused more on decisive strikes, probing with guerilla attacks here and there to pitch garbage cards. Often I find myself disliking FFG's remakes of old games like Merchant of Venus because they'll either introduce their own new rules or establish some bland patches to make the game more palatable to a modern audience. If Rex works, great, but tinkering with an old game is fun in itself IMO.
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Dec 23, 2018 08:39
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al-azad posted:We played a five player game in about 2 hours plus 30 minutes for teaching. We did only play 10 rounds (I believe Rex does 8) which the Dune grognard who taught said is the universally accepted house rule. It felt like the perfect length of time as it was enough to go through the entire treachery deck. I don't know what Rex could streamline beyond the turns because the game felt pretty straightforward? Like the longest downtime was waiting for the Atreides player to take notes. The classic game side of FFG's Merchant of Venus is still pretty good, which did have a few fixes (like a couple of map things that fans had asked for). ...and which they had no plans to include until the whole legal kerfuffle with Stronghold. So hooray? On the flip side of the loving-with-history, Fury of Dracula 3rd Ed had some excellent improvements over 2nd Ed, which was itself a huge improvement over the GW original. (Then again, there's a bit of a difference between updating an old White Dwarf also-ran and trying to improve on Richard Hamblen.) In conclusion, Fantasy Flight Games is a land of contrasts.
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Dec 23, 2018 09:14
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